OOC - Game Discussion.   Posted by DM.Group: 0
Aasa Torvali
 player, 28 posts
Mon 13 Apr 2015
at 00:51
Re: OOC - Game Discussion
So, would they follow the cleric pricing for something like a cure spell scroll or wand where the spell is at the same level? I'm entertaining the idea of having multiple scrolls in my stash for odd use spells. (Looking to buy at full price not craft)

This message was last edited by the player at 00:52, Mon 13 Apr 2015.

DM
 GM, 44 posts
Mon 13 Apr 2015
at 01:05
Re: OOC - Game Discussion
Yep, it's generally the spell level and the caster level that determine the cost of scrolls.

You could potentially get a scroll of, say, cure moderate wounds which heals 1d8(+1 per caster level).  Someone casting that spell at level 4 will heal 2d8+4, at level 5 they'll heal 2d8+5, if they're level 9 they'll heal 2d8+9.  In the spell's description, however, it gives a max of 2d8+10, so someone casting that spell at level 18 will still only heal 2d8+10 hit points of damage.

Let's assume you buy a scroll of cure moderate wounds created by a caster who is level 4 (meaning they can cast spells of 2nd level, including cure moderate wounds) which would heal 2d8+4 points of damage (that is 2d8 plus 1 per caster level to a maximum of +10) or you could purchase that same scroll but from a caster who is level 10 which would heal 2d8+10 points of damage.

The price of a scroll is 12.5 times the spell level times the level of the caster (12.5 x SL x CL) therefore:
The scroll of cure moderate wounds (a 2nd level spell) created by a 4th level caster would cost 12.5gp x 2 x 4 = 100gp

The scroll of cure moderate wounds (a 2nd level spell) created by a 10th level caster would cost 12.5gp x 2 x 10 = 250gp

I would say that once a spell has reached maximum effectiveness you would not need to pay more if the caster level of the scroll's creator is higher.  So a scroll of cure moderate wounds created by a caster who is level 10 would cost the same as a scroll with the same spell created by a caster who is level 20.
DM
 GM, 45 posts
Mon 13 Apr 2015
at 01:06
Re: OOC - Game Discussion
Info about crafting scrolls is here, by the way: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-...TOC-Creating-Scrolls

With the appropriate skills you could create your own at a cheaper cost than buying then outright. :P
Ihvon Morganth
 player, 20 posts
Mon 13 Apr 2015
at 02:53
Re: OOC - Game Discussion
That sounds like a good angle.

When I put together the skill-set for Ihvon he will have a lot of Knowledge: Geography and Nature so travelling to the far corners of the world would fit in well.  It would also be more likely, in his assumptions, that the Titans would be be asleep/buried/whatever near any major city because then something might be known about them simply by virtue of their power.  Sleeping God-like creatures tend to give off power regardless if they want to or not. ;)

So heading out to 'nowhere' is as good a place to start as any.
Aasa Torvali
 player, 29 posts
Mon 13 Apr 2015
at 11:58
Re: OOC - Game Discussion
Hmmm... I'm in the boat of do I pay full price for scrolls and half for weapon/armor enchantment, or the opposite?... which feat to pick.
DM
 GM, 46 posts
Mon 13 Apr 2015
at 13:00
Re: OOC - Game Discussion
Whichever you think will get the most use. :P
DM
 GM, 47 posts
Mon 13 Apr 2015
at 13:20
Re: OOC - Game Discussion
In the interest of having a well-balanced party I wanted to toss this idea out there.  If you guys feel like you need more party members I'm open to having you both play two characters each, or if just one of you wants to take on a second character.

I'd like to see how things go at first and then if we identify any serious gaps in your characters' abilities we can look at adding another PC or two as necessary.
DM
 GM, 48 posts
Mon 13 Apr 2015
at 22:50
Re: OOC - Game Discussion
So Ihvon, Aasa was asking about whether or not your two characters would know each other at the start.  I'm perfectly willing to start things off that way.  In fact Aasa is planning on going with some item creation feats and given Ihvon's history of working for wizards it wouldn't be out of the ordinary for him to volunteer to assist in the crafting process by providing spells and such.

Alternatively I could open up an in-game thread where you two could RP your first meeting.

What do you guys think?
Ihvon Morganth
 player, 21 posts
Tue 14 Apr 2015
at 04:38
Re: OOC - Game Discussion
Ihvon is going to take Craft Wondrous Items and Craft Magical Arms and Armour, and besides crafting things for himself he's also going to use the bit in magical item creation to restrict the use of the items to a specific class, in this case Druid to get the further cost deduction to make his funds go longer.

I could easily see her hopping along the caravan along the way to get to her destination while in the hunt for her prey that she's after allowing us to know each other.  We can either assume this is the case or you can open a thread to cover the last days of the trip into town to get the flavor going for the terrain and the like kind of a mix between having already traveled some together so we're not brand new but allow each of us to touch on certain aspects of who we are.
DM
 GM, 49 posts
Tue 14 Apr 2015
at 05:06
Re: OOC - Game Discussion
So when you're crafting you do get to decide whether or not to make the item class-dependent?  I thought that was only if you were crafting certain items which noted that they were class-dependent in their description.

I'm seriously getting a big headache trying to figure this out.  To make matters worse Aasa is also going with a craft skill that allows her to manufacture mundane items, too, which further complicates the cost.

This is why I've never touched item creation in the past.  It's ridiculous and annoying and the rules are unclear.

For instance Aasa wants to craft mithral breastplate and then give it a +1 enhancement bonus.  What is the base price that determines how much magical supplies will cost?  Is it:
A) 200gp the cost of a breastplate from a shop
B) 66gp 6sp 6cp, the cost if she were to craft it herself
C) 350gp the cost of a Masterwork breastplate from a shop
D) 116gp 6sp 6cp, the cost if she were to craft it herself + Masterwork cost
E) 4,200gp the cost of a mithral breastplate from a shop
or
F) 4,066gp 6sp 6cp, the cost to create a breastplate out of mithral herself

I've read various places where it says you include the mithral material cost in the base price and I've read other places where it says you don't include that in the base price, only in the market price.

This is the sort of thing I dislike about pen-and-paper RPGs, the level of micromanagement that's sometimes involved.
Ihvon Morganth
 player, 22 posts
Tue 14 Apr 2015
at 05:33
Re: OOC - Game Discussion
Agreed it can be crazy math.  As far as I know using your example...

+1 Mithral Breastplate

If she were to craft the Mithral Breastplate it would cost 4000 for the Mithral and 200 for the Breastplate, Masterwork is built into Mithral items.

So 4200gp would be the market value.  Divided by 3 equals 1400gp.  That will cover the component cost in crafting a non-magical Mithral Breastplate.

Enchanting an armour to +1 is 1000gp market value.  If she were to have the crafting feat to enchant it then it would cost 500gp.  If it were limited to an alignment/class then it would be only 350gp (70% of 500).

When it comes to the possibility to require a skill (10% reduction) or alignment/class (30% reduction) the reason why other armours/weapons/wondrous items tend not to have it is because they are crafted for general purpose/sell to the populace.  Any reduction in crafting cost also reduces the selling price because of the much more limited clientele to sell to.

So if she were to craft it herself, enchant it herself and limit it you're looking at:
1400 Mithral Breastplate
 350 +1 Enchantment limited to use by Inquisitors
----
1750 gp cost to make


The key aspect is this will only work well for situations like now...where the character has a set amount of funds to create the character and take care of personal items.  Once in regular play though there are other concerns that come to what you allow.  Mithral may be hard to find on certain areas of the world and cost more, or even be non-existent in a particular market requiring us to travel to areas that do have it...or find an existing item made of mithral and melting it down to re-forge it.
DM
 GM, 50 posts
Tue 14 Apr 2015
at 06:32
Re: OOC - Game Discussion
Well... that's a lot simpler than I was thinking it was.

Hopefully I understand that well enough for when it comes up in the future, but I might still ask you for help if I'm having difficulties. :P
Aasa Torvali
 player, 30 posts
Tue 14 Apr 2015
at 12:00
Re: OOC - Game Discussion
Whoa, you guys were busy while I was sleeping... :P

I have the math I can give to you in a PM if you want. I tried not to go overboard, there's only a few things,  my guns and my armor plus a couple alchemist fires.

Firearms are different, they're half price like magic items to create. So... take the long rifle:
 1200
 masterwork makes it 1500
 Half cost is 750 to craft

Also, ammunition costs 10% normal cost to create, making it much more viable.

This message was last edited by the player at 12:03, Tue 14 Apr 2015.

DM
 GM, 51 posts
Tue 14 Apr 2015
at 12:05
Re: OOC - Game Discussion
You know, I never did adjust the price of the Long Rifle.  All the other weapons are crazy expensive but with reduced prices because of the fact that guns are commonplace, so 25% of normal cost.

Let's go with a price of 7,000gp regular price dropped to 1,750gp with commonplace rule in effect.  That's the same price as the other most advanced guns.

Sorry to do that to you but the Long Rifle is intended to be a higher tier of weapon, up there with the pepperbox rifle and double-barrel shotgun.
DM
 GM, 52 posts
Tue 14 Apr 2015
at 12:07
Re: OOC - Game Discussion
As far as math goes for construction it sounds like Ihvon's got it right so go with that method.  Find the market price for the item you're crafting then cut it by 1/2 (or 1/3rd where applicable), then find the market price for the enchantment and cut it by 1/2 and then cut that number down by 70% for class-dependent armor/weapons.
Aasa Torvali
 player, 31 posts
Tue 14 Apr 2015
at 12:15
Re: OOC - Game Discussion
It's ok, let me get my coffee going this morning and I should be able to recalculate once I get into the office. :)

I think it'll sorta be a wash with the 30% cut to the enchant price.

EDIT: Yeah, realized I kept the initial price (1200) not the 25% of market price when I calculated, it'll be about the same.

This message was last edited by the player at 12:16, Tue 14 Apr 2015.

Ihvon Morganth
 player, 23 posts
Tue 14 Apr 2015
at 13:06
Re: OOC - Game Discussion
Yeah it's not too bad once you think about it in the right light when it comes to crafting things.  Like I said you've got issues after character creation to crafting expensive arms and armour both in any special materials you use in creating them (aka finding them) as well as the time it takes.
Aasa Torvali
 player, 32 posts
Tue 14 Apr 2015
at 13:18
Re: OOC - Game Discussion
Ok, stupid question of the day: when you say things under 10gp are free, is that just the one list linked or things like a journal as well? I'm not going overboard, just doing my final math.
DM
 GM, 53 posts
Tue 14 Apr 2015
at 13:24
Re: OOC - Game Discussion
That includes anything listed under any category of the Goods and Services page: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipm...l/goods-and-services

Journals are on there in the Books, Paper, and Writing Supplies category: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipm...per-writing-supplies

Unfortunately they cost 10gp so that's one item you can't get for free. :P
Aasa Torvali
 player, 33 posts
Tue 14 Apr 2015
at 13:28
Re: OOC - Game Discussion
:P

I just meant that kind of gear.

Doing one hopefully final revision on the sheet, let ya know when I'm done. Coffee is helping.
Aasa Torvali
 player, 34 posts
Tue 14 Apr 2015
at 15:30
Re: OOC - Game Discussion
Ok, gear and skills are locked in.

I can see Aasa tagging along, tracking the one she's been going after to being spotted at their destination. I can almost guarantee a little bit of tension if Ihvon mentions his heritage to her initially, Sarenrae is not exactly keen on undead... mitigated if he shows her he's not evil.


Here's my idea:
She's tracking Viktor, a former paladin who killed a good portion of a temple to steal a minor artifact. Aasa couldn't believe her long time friend could do such a thing until she confronted him, nearly killing her to escape. She swore to find him, retrieve the artifact, and either bring him back for judgment or kill him if he resists.
Ihvon Morganth
 player, 24 posts
Tue 14 Apr 2015
at 16:27
Re: OOC - Game Discussion
I would imagine, though, that even if Sarenrae isn't keen on undead it's a more restrained hate/disliking due to the fact that undead are not automatically evil anymore in Keroman's world.  I never got far enough into my chats with him about mindless undead and if they are inherently evil since they lack an ability to choose or if they hew to the alignment of the one who 'animated them' into existence.  Even then there still could be tension I do agree.
DM
 GM, 54 posts
Tue 14 Apr 2015
at 16:30
Re: OOC - Game Discussion
Mindless undead automatically have the alignment of whoever raised or created them.
Ihvon Morganth
 player, 25 posts
Tue 14 Apr 2015
at 16:31
Re: OOC - Game Discussion
Cool, that was what I was assuming based on how you've run things before.
Aasa Torvali
 player, 35 posts
Tue 14 Apr 2015
at 16:38
Re: OOC - Game Discussion
Well, vampires aren't exactly the nicest of creatures if they're the kind that preys on humanoids... even a dhampir has that potential for predatory behavior.