I'm not a big PF player these days, but I could certainly go for that. The problem is, can you find a GM and players that are willing to stick with a game through to the end? RPOL isn't exactly known for long-lasting games, unfortunately; for every game that lasts as long as it needs to, about 10,000 die... :/ That might put the Society to pause.

Admittedly, Discord seems to work infinitely better for that. A game session can actually end in 4 hours over Discord.

True, but I, at least, prefer RPOL because I don't have four hours at a time to dedicate to gaming - not to mention, I'm in a weird part of the world, so a live game doesn't usually work with me unless people happen to be in the same weird part of the world.

I think I have seen a couple attempts at society games but it's been a long time since I was actively looking for new games. I suspect the downside is that it could take months to finish a module so it would be difficult to transfer that in irl society. But, it could probably be done.

In reply to Angelalex242 (msg # 427):

Yeah, it would seem that way.

RPoL is a great medium for roleplay, however, where as "live" tabletop is the cup of roleplaying you chug down, RPoL is an IV drip of roleplay.

I want to use astronomy as a way to bring gods more into the story, in a campaign I’m starting some time from now. In pathfinder, people pray to the gods and the gods actually exist. So shouldn’t the worshippers get something back? I’m also a bit inspired by the dragonlance, which I read far too many years ago to properly remember, way of dealing with this - stars in one of the god’s constellations having vanished from the sky and such.

Brief concept:
Those knowledgeable about the gods and the stars know when their gods are watching over them, and when the gods are watching - they lend their aid.

Meaning: when the relevant constellations are on the night sky above us, we’ll get strengthened, buffed. A worshipper of Desna will benefit from having Desna’s stars above. This benefit could be eg a +1 bonus to allocate for the night: caster level, dc, to hit bonus, ac.

In practice:
Knowledge: Astronomy check to watch the sky for beneficial signs and constellations. Finding desna’s constellation when it is high in the sky is easy. Even in the months when it is gone, a high knowledge check would help you find maybe minor constellations, servants of your god, or even a different god that is also one you worship.

Rotating schedule based on calendar. E.g. current month’s god + two months backward/forward are clearly visible in the sky. DC15 to find common/well known god’s constellation, +2 dc per month distance from current month (up to DC19, then impossible). DC25 to find minor constellation, possibly increase dc on similar rotating schedule.

The bonus might have to be more than +1. Say a +2 bonus to be allocated between caster level, spell/ability dc, to hit, skill, and AC - maybe both can’t be allocated to the same. This would allow for a “half bonus”.
Worshipper - get full bonus under your constellation, get half if you can find a minor constellation instead.
Polytheist - get half bonus under god’s constellation

I of course want this to be a) inviting and interesting to the players, more bonus than work. B) both precise and easy to use for me so that I can handle the roll and bonus quickly when the players remember it just before the fight.

Thoughts, feedback? Anyone try anything similar? Does it sound useful, does it sound like something you’d use as a player?

I should add about the flavor, which is the biggest benefit. This system is for a Serpent’s Skull campaign (probably PF1E). The campaign offers plenty of traveling and sleeping out in nature, under the stars. It also offers ruins and locations used to track and worship stars. And it offers connections to ancient civilizations, who worshipped gods - somewhat similar or the same gods, gods with different names and somewhat different domains but really the same gods with the same constellations. Also tribes worshipping their own versions of gods. Plenty of opportunity to use this layer of religion. And my group will rarely use religion, which I find to be a very useful part of the world building.

I really like the idea, I would just worry about having to keep track of constellations in order to make it work.

I am reminded of the Void domain where they had some perks for being under the stars. Given how open to interpretation astrology can be and given that fighting under a night's sky or where the stars are visible is probably going to be fairly uncommon (nope during daylight, nope during indoors or dungeon fights) I think just a successful "Knowledge: Astronomy 1/night gives you a bonus while the stars are visible" works without worrying about tracking constellations.

For the Void cleric the powers were basically being able to spontaneously cast a domain spell which is versatile enough but not game breaking especially for a cleric.

Or maybe you set a flat DC like 10 and if they beat it they can get a single use of a guidance spell for free and every +5 they beat the check they get an additional guidance spell.

So your cleric (while the stars are visible) could get a handful of +1 to an attack roll or +1 to a skill check roll that they can use freely until the sunrise. That would be potent enough to warrant spending a feat on it I think but also could just be fun flavor to a game. Especially if you can let them bestow  that guidance via a move action as well to help boost the rest of the party.

Thanks for the feedback! I’d probably only be DMing one campaign like, at all, so i could print out a lil rotating calendar to keep it easy for myself. So I kinda believe in the rotating schedule still, because I feel like it’ll be my work to worry about - but I also worry a little bit that it will be confusing for the players. I should probably show my visual schedule for it, in that case… And I’ve been thinking baseline DC maybe should be 10 - take 10 to find your god’s stars during that god’s month. Example:

In game month: Abadius/january
Abadar: DC 10 (take 10 for everyone that don’t have negative int mod)
Calistria: DC12 (coming up next month)
Zon-Kuthon: DC17 (previous month, though a rare god to learn about due to its rare worship)
Pharasma & Nethys: DC14 (two months forward/back)
Other gods: DC20 to get the bonus, their constellation isn’t visible but it’s not very difficult to find the stars of eg Nightspear, a Star Monarch or other being closely associated with Desna or other god.

On the one hand, I don’t get any more scaling from this knowledge skill. The simple dc 10 and bonus on one more roll per 5 is a good option for that. But I might just go with the flat bonus on all rolls this night anyway. Oh the dream would be having the players plan a nightly assault because it is may in game and that lines up so that three or all four of them get their divine bonus easily.

A benefit would be that players will really have the k:astronomy skill when they get to a ruin temple, where they wouldn’t recognize the war-imagery of this god that hasn’t been worshipped for thousands of years, but the star charts and building design reveal that the place is built for festivals in Shelyn’s honor. For example.

An issue is, as you say, under ground there are no stars. What if 80% of my climactic fights take place underground, what if the final book takes place underground? It’s also an opportunity though. Find a rare artifact, a mirror revealing the sky even when not under open sky? Maybe a scrying ritual is enough to see the sky and get the power. The druids would have to actually care for weather control spells as the sky is full of clouds…

Just a quick question, why would you need to locate the stars in the sky? I don't need to be able to see the sky to know when Orion is visible in my part of the world. I already know when he will be coming back into the sky. Wouldn't any worshiper know when their god is going to be in the sky?

In reply to vibetrippin (msg # 435):

IIRC, in Dragonlance the gods' stars would leave the sky when the gods weren't present. Such as after the Cataclysm when the gods abandoned the world and while Paladine would adventure as Fizban.

In reply to vibetrippin (msg # 435):

Sure, but supposing a god would be closer to you inside a temple than outside, it might also be closer when you have visual contact.  Receiving aid from the god would need a conscious effort on your part - a prayer or act of worship, finding the god on the sky would be sufficient and a little more than just a “though component” - and a similar effort from the god. Of course, spending a thought-equivalent component to maintain age-old mystical processes in the astral plane is no effort at all for a god. But the connection needs to be there.

But yeah, a DC10 to find the god in the sky during that god’s month, when its constellation is the highest in the sky. Anyone with int10+ can do that with take 10. One or two months away and that constellation will be lower in the sky, that makes it more difficult to find. Maybe it would still be no issue taking 20, if you have that time. But as the constellation goes low enough in the sky, it will start to be obscured by more trees and other obstacles.

As a simplification. Not necessarily the most accurate one, but one that would work in a system I guess.
This message was last edited by the player at 14:42, Wed 05 Apr 2023.

I have a concern regarding the timing aspect of introducing this idea. I wonder what would happen if the players are not worshiping the particular god when they're in a situation to use this?

I know that there's always a lot to keep track of and not enough time to cover everything. Thus, I'm worried that introducing this with a time-specific requirement might be challenging for players to keep track of, and it may lead to them being unable to interact with this idea if they forget about it or can't meet the requirement at the right time.

In considering possible solutions, I looked at how the Elder Scrolls games use constellations to grant bonuses, but these bonuses are not dependent on a specific time year.

Personally, I think tracking constellations would be a fascinating idea for a video game, where it can be handled automatically, but it may be challenging or time-consuming to interact with in a tabletop game, and players may forget about it.

What if instead of having to worship THAT particular god, just succeeding at a knowledge: astronomy check gives you a bonus dependent on which god is in the sky? So a god of knowledge gives you a buff on knowledge, a god of battle might give you a +1 on initiative rolls etc.

You could also scale the DC so that a novice can get a minor benefit (1/day get +1 on an init check) but a master who is investing heavily in the knowledge might get a more powerful effect (+2 to all init checks for this month).

I suspect that in addition to the concerns that praguepride already raised; I can guess that the players are going to want you, the GM, to keep track of this for them.  So while it's an interesting sounding idea; all you're probably going to end up doing is making more work for yourself.

Ah, interesting suggestions and the concerns about players actually getting into the rhythm of using this, is stuff I recognize myself… I’ve GMed Curse of the Crimson Throne where players get a pool of points to spend on specific bonuses per chapter, but they never once used this. Because they forgot. Now I have no issue keeping track of the calendar, I usually do whether I’m a player or a GM, and I might just print out a simple little rotating visual calendar that will point out the current month and those constellations close to it.

But working with behavioral analysis every day irl I know that to get this behavior (using the stars and constellations) into a recurrent one, I need to reinforce their effort every time to begin with. So yeah, a +1 bonus to x (related to the deity in question) for everyone mapping out the constellation (that should be everyone at dc10 with take 10 and aid another) would do that. That would get them interested in the stars, which would help my storytelling, next I need them more invested in actually having some personal worship or dedication, even though I don’t need them to pray or attend church. Then maybe double the bonus for a worshipper of that god in particular, and some sort of interaction and bonus between high skill, worship and other the current constellation.

Which of the Pathfinder deities would be a God or Goddess of Fear?

I was looking at Death, but the vast majority of them are cartoony evil and bad, or they have that clause about not looting a tomb, which is not exactly conducive to party play.

In reply to Tom_Clancy's_Ghost_Recon (msg # 442):

When it comes to Gods with the Death Domain, I'm partial to Pharasma.

As for which exact diety, it'll depend.   If you're doing ancient tombs (i.e. Laura Croft), you can probably get away with someone in the neutral alignment grouping.  If you're taking from tombs still in use, you're going to have to turn to an evil god.
This message was last edited by the player at 05:23, Mon 17 Apr 2023.

I feel like a pharasmin could justify (or at least tolerate) the kind of graverobbing most nonevil adventuring parties do. But fear doesn't really fit her, since she sees death as natural and inevitable.

Zon-kuthon is probably the best bet for a fear god, though he's also the most cartoonishly evil.  Maybe Calistria fits the bill, as the goddess of passion and revenge?

I asked ChatGPT:

Which of the Pathfinder deities would be a God or Goddess of Fear?
There are several deities in the Pathfinder universe that are associated with fear, terror, or dread. Here are a few examples:

Norgorber: Norgorber is a deity of secrets, poison, and murder. He is often associated with fear and terror, as his followers are known for their ruthlessness and willingness to do whatever it takes to achieve their goals.

Lamashtu: Lamashtu is a chaotic evil deity associated with monsters, madness, and nightmares. Her followers often seek to spread fear and terror by unleashing her monstrous minions upon the world.

Urgathoa: Urgathoa is a deity of undeath, disease, and gluttony. While she is not explicitly associated with fear, her followers often use fear as a tool to intimidate and control others.

Zon-Kuthon: Zon-Kuthon is a deity of pain, darkness, and torture. He is often associated with fear and terror, as his followers are known for their sadism and love of causing pain.

Rovagug: Rovagug is a chaotic evil deity of destruction and chaos. While he is not explicitly associated with fear, his very existence is a source of terror for many, as his followers seek to unleash him upon the world and bring about the end of all things.

Yeah. Pharasma fit the bill and Anubis too. So did, in a peculiar way, the Boatman. Some of the edicts are just ridiculous though. Like Zon's and that whole ritual scarring junk.

The overall concept or character is a Fetchling, Dhampir, or Half-elf Champion (LN) with the Bounty Hunter background. The mindset of, "It is your time. You've run long enough. You cannot avoid this any longer."

Also.

"There is only one goddess. And she is Death. What do we say to Death?"
"Not today."

Pharasma is the goddess of death in terms of it being part of the natural cycle which is why her followers are fanatically anti-undead.

Zon-Kuthon is all about sadism/masochism so probably wouldn't fit a "God of fear" perspective. Just inflicting and receiving pain. ("Life is pain, little one" he whispered to the young child as he pulled his blade from its sheathe...)

Calistria is on the opposite end of fear so wouldn't fit. It is about indulging in pleasures and taking revenge on those who deny you those pleasures. The goddess of whores is a good take on her, both positive and negative.

Looking through the rest of the major deities none really fit the bill and looking for those with the subdomain of Fear that seems to reinforce that you'd be looking for a minor diety or a non-standard pantheon.

<cracks knuckles>

Alright guys and gals, let's go for a deeeep diiiiive



Ah Pook is the god of fear but for the Arcadians (other side of the world as Golarion)

Ahriman is god of Divs so beyond crazy cultists not really worshipped by "people". I also exclude sakhils, asuras, elemental lords etc. as A) not really worshipped by people, B) most are just 1-2 lines and don't really describe anything about anything and C) not really focused on fear per se, it just comes with the territory.

Camazotz is a god whose cult actively tries to spread fear but he is a very obscure god

Nhimbaloth is another obscure goddess who represents oblivion itself and preys on souls in the afterlife. Her followers view the fear right before death as her breath.


So based on all this I think your choices are really Camaztoz (which is about fear you can inflict on others) or Nhimbaloth which is more like existential fear and dread when faced with the meaningless of life and waiting oblivion.

Another solution that might require less work would be to simply ask the DM to make up a minor deity that fills the role.

I vaguely recall a setting where their pantheon is the 1,001 gods. Basically the player could create whatever god they wanted cuz it probably existed there...somewhere.

I want to say it was from the new Torment game but I am drawing a blank other than the idea of an infinite pantheon.

I'd totally worship Bao, the god of dumplings:

My brother actually uses a method like that for his campaign setting. That way he doesn't have to pigeon hole any specific deity for players and he can make up cults or prophecies on the fly.

Me personally, I would be a much more inclined to the goddess of Coffee, Cigarettes, and being cranky without them first thing in the morning.

This is what I inevitably ended up with.

Drow = emo cring. Bounty Hunter = eye roll cringe. Drow with a whip = soooo overdone. Drow using poison = Like Duh. Drow whore = Super cringe. But, a dark elf using a whip as much as a tool (because Indiana Jones) instead of to be all cringy dominatrix (except as an easy to play, predictable performance act), who takes out her frustrations by capturing (or killing) crooks for bank, while defending the freedom of whores (or anyone really) to make their own choices. She'd be a gods awful enemy of pedos, slavers, pimps, and rapists... which is ironically all very anti-drow culture. Suddenly it gets dope.

She is an unintentional Feminist!