You are absolutely right though, as long as you're up front about it, players should be able to work around it.


And honestly, I'm sure half the stuff I worry about in combat doesn't impact player enjoyment. In my experience, an active GM trumps any discrepancy over house rules...

I'm curious about your opinion on this, people.

Because it seems really stupid to say I can't cast one more Light or Dispel magic, although I have half a dozen 4th-, 5th- and 6th-level spells at the ready.

So, any magic user who has to prepare spells by default can replace a prepared spell with another. It takes time, however, which depends on the newly-prepared spell's level.
Also, since a specific spell is going to be replaced, the player has to make a choice what to lose in place of the new one.


I'd prefer the cumulative column, by first impression.

Light is a cantrip, so you can cast is as much as you want...  xD

Just to remember, besides your house rule, the Pathfinder rules are that a Wizard can leave slots open and spend some time to learn spells during the day.
Meaning he can fill slots, learn spells in slots not filled before (and not slots left "empty" from casting).

You leave a level 2 slot open...  and then, whenever you want, you decide to fill that slot with one of the level 2 spells in your book, and cast it.

This takes 15 minutes (and you can fill up to 1/4 th of your spell slots like that).  Or 30 minutes if you fill 1/2 of your slots etc..

There is the Fast Study - Arcane Discovery (need to be level 5 Wizard) that lets you fill all your slots in 15 minutes, or (more important, I feel) lets you fill up to 1/4 th of your spell slots in a 1 minute.

So, with that Feat you can decided to fill your empty level 2 slot in 1 minute (long when in combat, but fast when out of combat).

I know this is not swapping spells, but it seems linked to your subject.

Clerics (and druids?) can do this too and though it doesn't mention them specifically any prepared casting class should be able to as well.  It really is an incredibly useful thing to do and I use it to great effect on various characters of mine.

Yes, I think that in PFS any prepared caster can (Alchemists do too), and should in any game.
It is quite powerful, even with 15 minutes...  I use a lot too.

Yeah, I know about the slots left empty, but I specifically targeted the situation when a spellcaster has no empty slots left (either did not leave any empty or used up all those) but a lot of prepared spells, and what to do then.

(OK, Light was a stupid example, but you got the point, I suppose :)  )

Make a note to prepare better next time ?
Dig into his stash of scrolls/wands/staves ?
Reroll a sorcerer (my favorite class) ?

I see your point, but the first two are chancy things, and they do not solve the original problem: the stupidity of the situation. Also, I know that I can play a spontaneous caster, but when my long-played paladin / ranger / cleric / witch / shaman / magus / whatever gets into this situation, the solution is not to throw it away and make a sorcerer or oracle.

And you can't prepare for everything.

So my question is not how to circumvent the problem, but how to give prepared spellcasters a way to be able to use any spell in an emergency, without making them unbalancingly powerful.

how to give prepared spellcasters a way to be able to use any spell in an emergency
I do not see how you can switch when facing an emergency if you need time to switch?
I mean, you cannot suddenly realize that your last spell Fireball is useless because you're facing a bunch of fire invulnerable critters and swiftly change...

re. scrolls, for 150 gp (if I remember correctly) you can pick up a level 2 scroll, and there's a lot there that's nice to carry around:
Darkvision, See Invis', Spider Climb, Levitate, Knock...

True enough.

My idea wouldn't help in an urgent situation, like combat, but would change
"We'll have to wait till next morning and 8 hours of sleep until I can make holy water / dispel this magical lock..."
into
"Fine. But I will need an hour of concentration for the ritual. Guard my back while I finish."

And it would be completely OK for me to make playing prepared casters attractive. However, does it break game balance?

"We'll have to wait till next morning and 8 hours of sleep until I can make holy water / dispel this magical lock..."
into
"Fine. But I will need an hour of concentration for the ritual. Guard my back while I finish."

And it would be completely OK for me to make playing prepared casters attractive. However, does it break game balance?

This is for you as the DM, in the games you run?
It doesn't seem unbalanced to me.
I would push your casters to leave one slot open per level to adapt, and to get scrolls little by little to cover cases that arise regularly but not too often (Knock for the magical lock you talked about)...  and to try to figure out what general threats lie ahead (if they figure out they are up against Fey's they not only know they need Cold Iron, but also that they might be up against Invisibility etc.).
But then, yes, it doesn't seem unbalanced to me to let your caster reread his books - in relative safety and calm, where he can concentrate - and learn a new spell in place of one not yet cast, in an hour or a bit more.

No. For me as a player to even consider playing these classes.
This message had punctuation tweaked by the player at 10:37, Sun 20 Dec 2015.

Well then check with your DM.

This goal is more or less impossible unless the cost to switch is drastic. You're talking about removing one of the very, very few checks to a caster's control of the narrative, a check that is already largely circumvented by spells powerful enough to force the universe to play your game instead of the other way around (glitterdust, for example, allows you to say "I don't want to dodge arrows and I don't want to have to watch my back for rogues") and by spells that are inherently versatile (summons, polymorph effects, illusions). Is an hour drastic enough? Eh. I'd probably say "and you have to burn a slot a level higher," which among other things means you could never do it for 9th-level spells, not that they're the kind of thing that typically needs swapping.

But spontaneous casters already break this limitation! Yes, and they're usually a spell level behind and casting from a limited list, which is why prepared casters are traditionally considered more powerful - if you're smart, wizard beats sorcerer every time, because you made the right choices at the start of the day and therefore ignore the theoretical drawback of being locked in. That's why sorcerers are T2 and wizards are T1. Situations where you don't have enough information or you just didn't make the right choice are the only thing that make sorcerers competitive. A wizard who can do what a sorcerer can, or who even edges into that territory, is like how clerics can also be fighters by casting divine power but if fighters had a class-enabled narrative range beyond "physical damage to accessible physical targets."

Buuut...to be honest if a GM is using full casters at all it's less about "are you breaking the game" and more about "is the ruin you've made of that nebulous paradise called 'balance' still fun for the other players to play in." And that's a question that you can't really answer except in context, so. An ye harm none, do as ye will and all that.

Hmmm. Here's how to change a prepared spellcaster into a spontaneous one:
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classe...dian-witch-archetype

I just found it. I really like it. This is probably the solution to my puzzle.
This message was last edited by the player at 12:20, Sun 20 Dec 2015.

Well, you did as Halancar said above:
Reroll a sorcerer (my favorite class) ?

???

This way it is really easy to convert any existing prepared spellcaster into a spontaneous one (with GM and party permission, naturally) without making a new one with a different class.

Of course, now that I see how to do it, from now on I can always ask before starting play if it's OK to use a variant like this from the beginning. Still without switching to an originally spontaneous class.

This way it is really easy to convert any existing prepared spellcaster into a spontaneous one (with GM and party permission, naturally) without making a new one with a different class.
Of course, now that I see how to do it, from now on I can always ask before starting play if it's OK to use a variant like this from the beginning. Still without switching to an originally spontaneous class.
I do not understand.
The Ley Line Guardian is a Witch Archetype, that gives you Hex the mechanics (only replacing Familiar and 1st level Hex etc.) but you switch from Wizard-like spells (progression and memorizing before casting) to Sorcerer-like:  you only get level 2 spells at level 4, and you know few spells but cast them spontaneously...
It's like going Sorcerer vs. Wizard except that you tap into Hex mechanics vs. Bloodlines (and the Witch spell list...).
This message was last edited by the player at 17:11, Sun 20 Dec 2015.

He wants to do this with every prepared casting class, delaying their spellcasting progression and cutting their spells known in exchange for spontaneous casting. He's saying that the archetype is the template he wants to use to do so.

He wants to do this with every prepared casting class, delaying their spellcasting progression and cutting their spells known in exchange for spontaneous casting. He's saying that the archetype is the template he wants to use to do so.
Okay.  So it has nothing to do with the idea of having a prepared caster change his spells.
Its simply playing the existing spontaneous casting archetypes...  so, it's as was said above.

He originally wanted a way to change prepared spells with relative alacrity. He has now settled for using homebrew archetypes to just make prepared casters into spontaneous casters, because that's easier to figure out.

More or less, and this method does not break game balance at all, as Sleeping Darkness warned about in msg #23.
(More or less = Alacrity is more for this latter solution than the original idea.)

The original idea was about prepared casters changing their spells, but meanwhile I found that witch archetype that solved the problem much better.

Thanks for your input, everyone.

I am not certain where to post this but I came up with an archetype for druid that I wanted some feedback on.  I was really upset with PF because they drastically downplay the shapeshifting ability of the druid.  I really liked the Shifter prestige class in 3.0 but I also recognize that it is pretty ridiculously broken.  I tried to make an archetype that allowed Druids to focus on shapeshifting without making them stupid powerful, so here it is.

Shifter's can only cast Transmutation spells, in return for this, they double the duration of their spells and wild shape ability. (This ability modifies spellcasting and wild shaping)

At 4th level the shifter acquires the ability to wild shape and may shift forms at will for the duration of the wild shape. (This ability modifies wild shape and replaces resist nature's lure and timeless body).

Shifter' cannot spontaneously cast Summon Nature's Ally, instead they add the following to their wild shape abilities.

6th level: Add vermin shape I to the forms they can take, at 10th level this increases to vermin shape II

10th level they add form of the dragon I to their wild shape forms, at 14th this increases to form of the dragon II, and at 18th level it increases to form of the dragon III

Right off the bat you're giving double dips at 10th level. Those bonuses should be spaced out to not hit so much at 10th level.

Second, it's a huge modification to an existing class. I would look at something like the Goliath Druid. I like where you're going however I think it might have swung too far.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classe...etypes/goliath-druid