I'm intrigued with the idea of fallen Khadid. I have ideas related to broken or even anti-magic originating from that realm. Does that mesh with your thoughts about how Khadid fell?




I've got next to nothing in mind for Khadid.  As a nation, it's fell apart when the capital city was decimated.  Both Karse and Kumlar kinda took a big step back when faced with the ruin they'd wrought--and yes, it was both nations.  One can cast stones and blame the other, but it was the confluence of opposing magics that tore the earth asunder and drew down fire from the skies, turned the rivers into acid and twisted the living into things beyond mortal tolerance.

This shock is the reason for the College of Magic in Kumlar.  I haven't determined what Karse did or how they reacted.      We seem to be going in a direction of suggesting that Karse is involved in a lot more blood magic.  And it might be a necessary defense against whatever comes from the Wasteland.

But as to what's in the Scar now?  I'm open to discussion...

Of course, I imagine that the less-affected areas outside the Wasteland proper were absorbed into Karse and Kumlar, where proximity mean better access to support and defencss.

I have another RTJ for someone who'd probably have a lot to add to the Thieves Guild discussion, so I'm going to table it for just a little bit to give them the chance to contribute...

But, I do have some opinions...

First, I agree that the City Watch and the Guardsmen may well be subject to corruption.  It's kind of like restaurant workers expecting tips.  A certain amount of grift and corruption is tolerated because it keeps the bigger ills from manifesting.  Taking the racket too far and getting it brought up before a baronial magistrate or--god forbid--the kingdom level... That's a sure-fire way to find yourself kicked from the city-watch or Guardsmen, or whatever.  So, it pays to keep it discrete.

So long as the Watch is doing it's job here aren't any major reprisals from the crown.  On the other-hand, this kind of set-up probably has an ongoing cycle of being slammed down, then slowly-building up again until there's a major incident, then being slammed down again...  And then, maybe... if people are griping about the corruption of the city guard, they're not worrying as much about the incursion of Gath from the Scars...  And of course, when the city guard successfully repels a Gather incursion, well... who's going to bitch about the Guards then?


What would they look like in a city where the College of Mages is one of the major powers?  Do they have Mages in their employ? 
The College of magic is predominantly concerned with the safe use of evocation.    College graduates are certified to be able to control their power.  So, if someone is killed by magic, it must mean that they intended to kill the victim.  Logical, right?

It does mean that College Graduates are free to be employed in whatsoever manner they see fit.  If that means turning criminal... it's outside the purview of the college.  Though, it may well mean that one day, college investigators may be facing off against said criminal...  And the college investigators have the Kings Law to back them should anything lethal happen...

Are the crime families locals (the underclass rising above their station through grift), or foreigners who have seized some measure of power and control?

There's always going to be the disenfranchised.  And the disenfranchised will always make up a substantial portion of the criminal population.

By the same token, Kumlar would also likely get a lot of refugees in the form of escaped slaves from Karse.  If you're bottom-rung on the social ladder, you do what you gotta do.

As to Italian families... I'm neither here nor there.  I don't have any specific naming convention, and I know that I won't successfully follow it if we create one.  I'm sorry.  I know this of myself.

What do they feel about outside forces coming into town, like say the Agent of a foreign House (with the idea that Oathsworn Houses are themselves not native to Kumlar, but rather an interloper to the established order)?


Good questions, all.

With the spring rains not having come this past year, the kingdom & empire both have a very high risk of a drought year through the summer.  And that's going to have an impact on the criminal element too.

It's the other way around.  Members of a crime family show magical ability, and the family sees that they get the best training, which means the College of Mages.  However, with rare exceptions, these mages would know where their real loyalties lie.
This message was last edited by the player at 15:16, Sun 22 Mar 2020.

Control, could we have a couple of maps?  Just the continent and the primary city.  I know that you've written a little of the layout, but I am a more visual person and need at least a framework.  I suggest https://next.inkarnate.com/maps/, which I just spent 15 minutes playing with.  Using only the free features, I made a decent-looking map of the continent in my own fantasy world.  BTW, your Game Map has what looks like a spaceship in it.  Is this a hint?

For the city we mostly live, just a broad brush view is all I'm looking for.  Is it on the coast?  Does a river run through it?  Are there city walls around the whole thing, just around the inner keep, or what?  Is it big enough that there are distinct regions, with their own economies?  How big is it?  On Earth, pre-steel cities max'ed out around 10k, but magic could replace a lot of what steel was needed for.  (You need some steel for the wheels and axles of large carts to transport enough food to feed a dense population.)

From https://worldpopulationreview....s/athens-population/

The iron age ended around 800 BC as steel became more available.
This message was last edited by the player at 16:14, Sun 22 Mar 2020.

I have  game map?

Ah.  Recycled Game-slot.

I often create a game I think about running, populate it, then kill it before even advertising...  This was probably one of those.

I have no map at this time.  But I'll see what I can go create. Worse comes to worst, I'll sketch something out on a white-board and take a photo...


For the city we mostly live, just a broad brush view is all I'm looking for.  Is it on the coast?  Does a river run through it?  Are there city walls around the whole thing, just around the inner keep, or what?  Is it big enough that there are distinct regions, with their own economies?  How big is it?


As it hasn't been defined, it's open to discussion.

Easy answer that evades any kind of responsibility?  yup.

Regarding the crime families, I'm open to whatever you develop. My only question: what would the quene's view be of these families?

---

Regarding the fallen land:



Speaking only for myself, this is less interesting...



Than this! :-) The effect of the magical fallout on the survivors of that culture is something I'm intrigued with. What if the ability to perform magic is either hindered or enhanced by the destruction of the capital?  Or what if elemental effects were buried in the veins of some of those survivors, a-la the genasi in Forgotten Realms?
This message was last edited by the player at 19:15, Sun 22 Mar 2020.

So I posted this in my character thread but I thought I'd drop it here too:

So, one question I have in this area is “Thieves Guild.”  So, the nation we are from is a collection of City States united under a single crown.  So, is there one overarching Guild?  A confederation of guilds from each city state, united under a central rule, sort of mimicking the kingdom itself?  Or maybe a council- one from each city? Or a series of city-bound guilds that jealously guard their territory against the others?   On a personal level I’m partial to either of the two latter ones; because it adds another layer of complexity to the underworld.

So far we have a pair of major crime families and the City Watch as the major criminal elements within the capital city of Druvir.*

*All names and facts below just made up by me and others, feel free to negotiate and change anything you don't like.  Especially as you are going to be interacting with these people far more than me.

The Family: The commonly accepted shorthand name for the Ascani Family, the Family are recent additions to the political and criminal landscape of Druvir.  They are refugees from Fallen Khadid, but not all refugees are created equal.  While most fleeing those blighted lands were destitute and desperate, the Ascani family brought with them wealth and muscle, both of which they have expertly used to carve out a territory for themselves in the Northernmost quarters of Druvir.  Another thieve's guild named the Path of Azure already controlled the territory, and in just three short years the Family has either murdered, bought out, or brought in every member of that previously established guild.  As the Path of Azure had been a thorn in the side of the South End thieve's guild for decades, the two major criminal powers have established an uneasy truce.  The Family's main source of income is smuggling in relics from Fallen Khadid, strange and wondrous items of power warped by whatever magics twisted that place.  They employ these with brutal efficiency, quite effectively making up for the relatively few College trained Evokers within their ranks.

The South End:  More of a traditional thieve's guild than the Family, the South End have operated within Druvir for the better part of the last one hundred years.  They pride themselves as having more College trained Mages within their ranks than any other criminal enterprise, even the City Watch, and have used that arcane might to establish an extensive network of spies and informants withing Druvir.  Through these, they maintain constant surveillance on the wealthy and powerful, utilizing blackmail and extortion to fill their coffers as much as simple thievery.  The South End always have operatives within the ranks of the College, looking for potential new recruits to swell their ranks.

The City Watch:  Known colloquially as the Blue Cloaks for the royal blue cloaks they wear, the City Watch is perhaps the single largest extortion racket in Druvir.  They maintain what the more erudite among them would describe as "symbiotic relationships" with the majority of business ventures that take place within the city walls, in theory keeping said merchants safe from the predations of less amenable guilds and organizations.
This message was last edited by the player at 17:42, Mon 23 Mar 2020.

I guess I'm asking: do we have to originate from the capital?

Nope, Cara doesn't.

She's not even from the Kingdom of Kumlar.

Waiting on the DM to tell me if the background I've made for her would work for Kharse or not.

Manaolana definitely isn't from the capital. He can certainly be visiting it from elsewhere, though.

On that topic, that Island to the East of the Capital; any plans for it?

Safe to assume no and start making them.

So the Island to the East of the Capital with the City on it.  I assume it's part of Kumlar?  If it is I have an idea but I want to make sure.

North part of the island has a settlement of some sort that is associated with Kumlar.   The rest of the island... narratively up for grabs.

That's actually more perfect.  I had an idea for the Island or, more particular, that city.  Given it's position I had an idea of a port city/trade hub.  But not entirely 'civil' in the traditional sense.

Not sure if anyone is familiar with old-school Birthright?  Anuire and Mieres?

Reposted by Control:
So, one question I have in this area is “Thieves Guild.”  So, the nation we are from is a collection of City States united under a single crown.  So, is there one overarching Guild?  A confederation of guilds from each city state, united under a central rule, sort of mimicking the kingdom itself?  Or maybe a council- one from each city? Or a series of city-bound guilds that jealously guard their territory against the others?   On a personal level I’m partial to either of the two latter ones; because it adds another layer of complexity to the underworld.
This message was last updated by the GM at 23:12, Thu 26 Mar 2020.

Sorry, I'm playing catch-up.

It is my preference that the thieves guilds tend to be localized to the city or region where they are active.

This means there's a lot more fractured politics and sometimes good or bad interactions between guilds between locations.

I recently gave running "Blades in the Dark" a shot.  It didn't seem quite so well suited for RPOL, but there's a lot in the focus on gang warfare that can be adapted.  It really helped color my idea of how the criminal underworld probably works in this setting...

Every location has it's gangs, it's factions.   They are all vying for control of different neighborhoods to increase their power.  many will focus on one or two specific types of crimes (Assassination, Extortion, Smuggling, Theft, Vice, etc.)

Those that have become large and strong enough may be moving on to trying to consolidate more power in the political arena or in other regions...

I simply don't want it to be one well-oiled machine.

Repost from my personal thread.

House Yisil is Khundari, so I did this.

Khune:

The dry steppes of Khune are harsh and unforgiving, the soil alkaline and unsuitable for most agriculture beyond the herding of goats.  The Great Lake Lis is in fact an inland sea, and while its waters do support life, they are useless for the irrigation of crops.  With the scare resources the land provides, the Khundari should be a people made up almost entirely of fishers and herders, scraping out whatever meager existence they could in an unforgiving land. Yet the Khundari are so much more than that, so much greater.  They are a poroud people, possessed of a massive citadel of learning and trade.  Indeed, the many tiered capital of Liscora rises high above the plains, its thousands of hungry mouths fed on far more than fermented goat's milk and spiced fish.  For it is magic that is the heartbeat of the Empire, and the foundation of that magic is the Great Houses.

Situational Aspect:  A harsh land, a harsh people.

Magic is a very strange thing among the Khundari.  Like all peoples, any who wish to learn can master the basics of Ritual Magic.  Evocation is more rare, but only just, for most woman born to Khundari blood is capable of at least a single Discipline.  This means that the Khundari possess among them more Evocators than any other race of people.  Yet while they possess it in great abundance, individually their magic is fundamentally weak.  All but the very strongest Khundari Fire Dancer is barely able to summon more than a finger of flame, while their Stone Mothers serve better as architects and engineers than they do wielders of battle magic.  With their magic being hereditary and maternal, Clan is everything to the Khundari.  While the men of Khune are free to marry into whatever family and profession they choose, the women's path is determined by the Clan that she is born into.  Still, magic is undeniably power, and thus Khune is a matriarchal society.  Those within a Clan have the safety and protection of their name.  Those without have nothing, and barely exist within the law at all.  For many Khundari, it is better by far to sell oneself into slavery than to be Clanless.  Only the gangs offer sanctuary to those outside of the Merchant Clans, and that could hardly be called sanctuary at all.  Better to offer service to one of the Clans, or if possessed of Evocation, to join one of the Great Houses as a Dependent.

Situational Aspect:  Magic of the mothers.

The Clan Matriarchs alone would not be sufficient to establish the mighty Empire, for while they are plentiful, their magic is not strong enough to reshape the land around them.  Instead, the Matriarchs are the foundations of the Great Houses, who serve to condense the magic of the Khundari people and focus it to a razor's edge.  It is the Great Houses who bring the rains which irrigate the lands, who modify the soil with their alchemy so that crops may be raised to feed Liscora's masses.  Through their Oathsworn, they gather the blood and power of their Dependents, concentrating it and refining it into the potent power that the Empire is built on.  The Houses are extremely competitive, a result of Khune's unique political structure, though they do not let such rivalries and intrigues carry over to murder and assassination.  Such would incur a Blood Debt, with power lost on both sides, and only serve to weaken both Houses in the face of the others.  Instead they seek to increase their networks of Debtors, strengthening the power of their Houses with every increasing arsenals of stored magic.  Through this, the Oathsworn are capable of feats of Evocation only dreamed of by the Clan Matriarchs, and are the source of endless fearful rumors among many at the College of Mages.  Indeed, the rumors swirling around the red and black jacketed Oathsworn are vast and terrible.  While no Collegiate Mage would likely breath a word of it to an Oathsworn's face, muttered whispers of "Soul Eaters" follow them wherever they go.

Situational Aspect:  Blood debt and bloody debtors.
Situational Aspect:  Fear the Devourers of Souls.

In name, Dragon Emperor Eric Markov, known among his people as the Radiant Dragon, is the undisputed ruler of Khune.  In truth, it could be argued that he serves at the Great House's whim.  The fact that he has continued to serve as Emperor through the reign of supremacy of three separate Houses in the last three decades speaks to his power and political acumen.  The Dragon Emperor is Oathsworn to no House, but possesses the Boon Magic that is the foundation of each.  He is a potent force in his own right, having Bound some of the most powerful Mantles in the Empire to his personal Mantle or those of his War Mages through Blood Sacrifice.  He is rightfully feared on the battlefield for his skill as a leader, and operates as a sort of check on the Great House's power even as they operate as a check on his.

Situational Aspect:  The balance of power.

So, Etzagith posted a timeline of personal events in his character thread.  It included:
B

• Princess Jia Eldrian is married to Dorian of Lee
• King Jorva dies.  Dorian and Jia Eldrian are named King and Queen.

What I find real interesting about this is that it suggests that the line of succession in Kumlar passes through the Queen's line, not the Kings line.   She was Princess before being wed to Dorian.  He was a Duke's son...

So, a couple of outgrowths of this little point of interest.

The King may be the voice of the land, but he will not rule without the Queen's support.  The Queen is, literally "the mother of the kingdom" and it is by her grace that he rules.

Since I have no good reason to declare the why of it, I'll say that the expectations of motherhood take higher precedence unless you can suggest other, better, reasons for it to be the way it is.

It is not unprecedented to have a Queen on the throne.  It's happened in the past.  Though there is still a social custom of it being a male.

It is also possible (though it has only happened twice in Kumlar's history) for a Queen to renounce her king, basically firing him from the job.  The Queen is the "mother of the kingdom"

Okay, Sorry Cara, this commentary was a long time coming.


Oh.  "Khundari"  I like that.

Empire of Khune, The Dragon Empire, The Dragon Emperor, The Khunic Empire, where the Khundari people live...



For many Khundari, it is better by far to sell oneself into slavery than to be Clanless.
Ah, there's a nice, workable justification for the acceptance of slavery in the Khunic culture.

With what you've laid out here, I see Khunic envy for the comparative "bountiful largess" that the Kumlaren don't even appreciate.  NO wonder there's tension.  The Kumlaren have it easy, with their orchards and fertile lands.

Of course, we'll have to come up with something to balance the scales a little bit...  It'll manifest, eventually.  I don't feel we need it right away.

But that was nice.  It does sort of give Khune the feel of the the muslims during the time of the crusades... from the perspectives of the crusading knights, anyway.  Alien and harsh, but culturally rich with history and lore.  Which is precisely what I was hoping would develop.  A great starting point.

So here is what I'm thinking for the city on the Island to the East.  Does it work for people?

Trade City of Cyren
City of Coin and Blood

Founded by Kumlar nobles in years past, the city benefits from a large and deep natural harbor that has allowed the city to flourish into a trader's haven.  With their eyes to the sea, extending the city's influence inland has never been a priority and with the coin that passes through the ports and counting houses the citizens are well contented with this choice.

While it cannot contend with the magnificence of the capital the city offers one thing in dark trade; the distance from the capital has bred a culture of corruption that runs rife through the city.  An undercurrent to the bustling ports and exotic markets; the adage "you can always ask in Cyren," speaks to the fact that anything can be found here for the right price, even if it's illegal on the mainland.  Sometimes <i>especially if it's illegal on the mainland.

Corrupt merchants, gangs, smugglers and Royal agents on the take; Dark Cyren exists like a shadowy reflection of the city across the harbor waters at night.  The city never fails to pay its share to the royal coffers, but this likely out of self interest; the belief that as long as the crown sees it's taxes the key players in Cyren are free to do as they like.</i>

Any thoughts?

This message was deleted by the player at 16:43, Sat 28 Mar 2020.

The Game map sets it out in general.

First, I'm sorry I let this linger so long.

I've just added (and Sachs's Isl) to the map.   Thanks for the write-up!  I'll add it to the Encyclopedia momentarily...

Cyren has a pretty dark reputation.  But it's on an Island, and it's sometimes gotten the shit-end of the stick when tough times have come upon the kingdom.

The truth is that the trade in contraband serves the crown.   If something needs be done and the crown needs deniability, they can source the work or materials in Cyren.

Of course, this doesn't mean the crown approves of everything.   It's an ever on-going dance of imposition of will and "considered ignorance."

I suggest that Cyren has three primary industries:

• Trade  It's not unknown to the wider world that Kumlaren inspectors in Druvir tend to look less closely at goods from Cyren, than from other nations...  (It's possibly the origin of the epithet "You've been Sach'd")
• Ship-building - Because the entire city isn't corrupt, no matter what it's reputation is like.  there are honest, hard-working folk there.  And, in fact, many of the ships in the Kumlaren navy were built in Cyren.
• Fishing - the deeper waterway and the clearer access to the Eastern sea means more access to the ocean fish, there...

Do you want to define names and any details for the major players in Cyren?

Prior to writing this, I hadn't even considered that Kumlar has a navy... but of course it does!
This message was last edited by the GM at 20:53, Sat 04 Apr 2020.