Posts from that game, that I'm now deleting.
This message was last updated by the GM at 21:29, Sat 13 Jan 2018.

LF GM thread: link to a message in another game

Character Creation

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1. Starting level is 2.

2. Multiclassing is allowed from the start, but only for classes from the PHB.
2b. UA classes, by default, are not available for multiclassing into or out-of unless I approve it.

3. For ability scores: 16, 15, 14, 13, 12, 10

4. When you pick your traits, ideal, bond, and flaw - use the things listed there as guidelines to come up with your own. Don't just copy them straight out of the book. Put some thought into it for all of us.

5. Hit Points will be maxed for levels 1 & 2. From there you roll and take either the roll or the average for your hit die, whichever is higher.

6. You start with the equipment given to you by your class and background, as though you were a fresh level 1 character. I will give each character a special item that relates to them.

7. Everyone starts with 1 Feat. This feat should improve the flavor and variety of your character. Make it something interesting, not something purely focused on min/maxing your character.

8. Tracking Ammo sucks, so you have an infinite supply of normal ammo for any ranged weapon yo use. Magical ammo will be tracked as normal, when/if you obtain such. Not applicable to thrown weapons.

9. You know what else sucks? Encumbrance. We're using common sense for this. You're not going to grab three suits of plate armor and stick them in your pocket, or steal an entire shop display in one go. Well, not until you get magical pockets.

Allowed Sources
Pretty much all of the official Wizards material is "allowed" as long as I have the book. For the sake of not having to type out all the details of every book, just run things by me first if they're from something other than the PHB.

PHB
DMG
Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide
Elemental Evil Companion
Volo's Guide to Monsters

Unearthed Arcana - all of this needs my approval as some of it is just stupidly broken. Most of it's allowed though, just check with me first.


Important Note:
Remember that we're here to have fun and tell a story together. If your character is optimized to the teeth such that you're the only one who needs to take actions in order to win, you're probably ruining the experience for everyone else. Everyone should have a chance to shine.

RNG gods bless/curse whomever they will, I'm not talking about RNG, I'm talking excessive min/maxing. I'd much rather have a group full of Half-Orc Wizards with 11 Intelligence that just have fun with the game, than a group of min/max Variant Human Paladin/Sorcerers that could individually wreck every encounter solo. You feel me?
This message was last edited by the GM at 21:28, Sat 13 Jan 2018.

1. Pick a group capable mission.
Nobody wants to sit back and watch the rogue make money while they twiddle their thumbs at the tavern waiting for the next fight. The more inclusive the quest the better the immersion will be. Make sure you have a role for all your PC's. Let them know that thieves aren't just sneaky. They bribe, steal, mug, extort, and sometimes even run rackets. Muscle and magic are useful, especially to those that don't mind breaking the rules from time to time.
Heists- A heist usually involves a group with several roles. The more group variety there is the better. Tailor these quests to the groups capabilities. The longest and a definite classic.
Mugging- Two fighters and a barbarian want to join the Thieve's Guild? Say no further muscle is useful. The larger the group the better the ensuing fight. A fair bit shorter, more for the combat prone party.
Smuggling- Whether it's overseas or across the border they will have to avoid detection while also defending one another. For the groups who love to RP. Liars, sneaks, and charlatans will all enjoy these.
Rackets-For the groups who want to take a more "entrepreneurial" approach.

2. Fill the quest with Interesting NPC's
I try to leave these open to my PC's choice, but I craft all of them for every mission. They don't have to interact with them but learning from the Informant that the Guardsmen has just received inside info from a snitch can be a positive experience. Maybe the Party bribes the Guardsmen's higher up.
Snitches- Maybe a competing group or thief is jealous. Twist: Snitch gets their reward.
Bribing Officials- Someone with authority can help "alleviate" a job's heat. Twist- Takes money but provides no help.
Informants-Information is knowledge, and knowledge is not cheap. Twist- If they were cheap they got cheap knowledge.
Fence-Buys "dirty" goods. Twist- Runs a racket in the back that guards are about to bust.
Reoccurring Guardsmen- Either wants his cut, or can't abide lawbreakers. Twist- Actually catches them.

3. Creating believable security
We've all played a game where the +1 Longsword has a group of kobolds protecting it. If you want to make it feel realistic you've got to have a dedicated security force. No Necromancer leaves his laboratory without summoning some guards, and no temple leaves it's coffer out in the open.

I'll break this down by the inherent property.

Mundane- art, temple donation box, and personal items. No guards should be attending these. They would be either locked up or otherwise hidden from plain sight. Maybe an alert spell.
Uncommon- Jewels, imported/exported goods, and noble wealth. A few guards on alternating patrols is appropriate, maybe a stationary guard as well. All locked up though.

Rare- Scrolls, King's vault, and magic items. At least a group of dedicated guards that are on roving patrols, a stationary team, and possibly a guardian. These aren't only locked up, they're probably protected magically.

Epic- Nothing short of artefacts and vast hordes of gold. Dragons are nice here of course but any greater being would do. Locked up, sealed away, cursed, protected by magic, and hordes of minions to fight.

- con artist
- cat burglar
- crooked or disgruntled city guard
- miscreant or disillusioned knight
- fence (black marketeer)
- cutpurse, pickpocket
- street urchin or gang member
- fortune teller, charm maker
- illusionist (specialist wizard)
- enchantress (specialist wizard)
- exotic dancer
- courtesan or gigolo
- actor, storyteller
- singer, musician
- hot-headed or cavalier duelist
- private investigator
- thug, bruiser
- petty drug dealer
- vigilante
- acrobat, juggler
- escape artists, contortionist

Read more: http://www.enworld.org/forum/s...mpaign#ixzz4csNnqiPZ

PC Thieves' Guilds

If a PC wants to run a thieves’ guild, match the campaign’s mood and the PC’s alignment or ethics to the level of evil. I had a PC run a spy network, and instead of running scams, blackmail rings, secret interrogation chambers, and networks based on coercion, he paid them quite a lot of gold. His network was not profitable, but it was Good. More like Harper Agents than actual spies.

Remember, the Guild is a hook!  Use it to draw the PCs into adventures.  Thieves encounter challenges and discover opportunities.  Just make sure to convey a criminal theme when you use them as a hook.  No "rescue the princess -- I mean beggar" plots.  Instead, try "cover up the crime" or "steal back the evidence" or "convince the witness that his boss is evil."

What about mechanics for PC Guilds?

Always tricky.  There are downtime mechanics in Pathfinder, so if you play that, just use those.  In non-F20 fantasy RPGs, or in 4e or D&D Next, the Guild could be worth a circumstance bonus in certain skill challenges.

Otherwise, I would let the Guild collectively achieve one thing significant to the story every adventure.  I wouldn't require a roll; they would just do it.  Maybe it would be to provide the story hook, or to drop an otherwise-impossible to find clue at a crucial moment.

If you can't think of anything else, have them come across a magic item that the Guildmaster PC wants, and sell it to him at a discount.  That way you can use the provenance of the item as a story hook for a later adventure when you figure one out!

"Wait, you said you stole this showstone amulet from the Schwartzfeld estate?  We just learned that Lord Schrwatzfeld is a lich!  No wonder undead assassins have been attacking me for the past six sessions!  It must be his phylactery!"

One of the party thieves asked recently about what 'services' the local thieves guild would give to a dues paying member (eg someone that pays the guild a regular fee and a cut of what they steal in the guild's area of operation). I have a standard set of guild services, but I thought I would tap the collective brainpower here to see what some of the standard services were and if anyone had some outside the box ideas. Assuming that this is the PCs 'local', what do you allow?

Here is a list of what our party thief's guild will do (I have omitted detailed costs - instead I have only listed a cost if it is not covered by the guild tithe). If there is a listing for "locating" a person or service the guild only finds the individual, they must be paid for the service separately.

Tithe - minor monthly fee (50sp/month) + 10% of take if job is planned ahead of time and the guild 'clears' it, 20% after the fact if it was not approved. If a regular guild member has gone for more than 3 or 4 months without pulling a job the regular tithe doubles (to 100sp)

If the guild hears of a thief working the area without giving a cut they will pursue the PC if the job involved any magic or more than a few hundred GP

Standard services (included in regular tithing):
- repair and replacement of thieves tools (repair has no extra fees, new tool sets cost, specialty sets cost comparatively more)
- repair and replacement of weapons and armor (repair has no extra fees, new weapons cost, specialty weapons cost comparatively more)
- money changing
- gem and jewelry assessment and exchange for coin
- magic item identification (200gp surcharge for weapons, 100gp for RSW's, 150gp for misc items)
- magic item exchange (MINOR items only, if a cursed item is somehow passed off to the guild the full force of the guild is brought to bear on retribution)
- scroll exchange (since high level thieves can use scrolls these are in high demand and will be paid for handsomely, but the local magicians guilds frown on this so it must be done carefully)
- translation of languages
- map analysis and consultation
- use of guild library
- locating henchmen + hirelings
- locating a sage for consultation
- locating transportation
- locating accommodation
- locating equipment
- weapon training (100 GP per week surcharge)
- level training (regular level training fees -10%)

1- protection; from poachers operating in your territory, from law enforcement (all the proper bribes are up to date so that you activities are over looked and if and when you are caught making arrangements for your easy escape), from other guilds leaning on you for tribute.
2- a fence service; a black-market.
3- supplies of illegal tools such as; poisons and lock picks.
4- information; possible jobs, what kind of locks and or security can be expected at locations, recon services.
5- lock picking services; you bring in chest that you can't open and such.
6- a safe house.

I look at it like organized crime syndicates. Assassins guilds too. But really they can be anything from a spy organization to whatever. The common elements that I do incorporate within each are:
1. Safe house/ protection from capture
2. Legal help (they have some nobles who can vouch, bribes that can be paid, Gaolers on the take.... etc.)
3. Training
4. Fence/ movement of goods.
5. Knowledge/ information

A guild master is high enough level that he or she made it through years of comparative weakness (everyone would agree that thieves as a class are weaker) through a combination of stealth, luck, magic acquisition (steal, steal, steal) and reliable assessment of risks (the ’too daring’ thief would be dead by now). If you are a high level thief you are likely to be very smart, or at least cunning.
You could certainly run it like a mafia strongarm organization and try to out power everyone into submission. Steal from everyone and intimidate everyone. Run a protection racket.

But this is a fantasy world, and magic changes everything. Why say you, magic is no different in principle than advanced tech, yes? Well, maybe, maybe not. Machiavelli still applies in these situations, and Sun Tzu, but here’s the catch. Magic is the great equalizer. A thief isn’t a magic user, but a high level thief can have powerful spells on his person that he can use. Rings, magic weapons, intelligent swords, etc. Magic changes the game. And thieves hoard magic. Thieves also hoard wealth, gold, and wealth is power.

Powerful guild masters in a magical world will have powerful allies, in debt to them, bound to them by magic, bribed into service with wealth and its privileges. Monsters would be bound to their service, invisible stalkers would prowl the guild halls, powerful mages would be in their employ, in their debt, in their service or gunning to kill them. They would have powerful magic items in their possession, access to scrying devices, etc.

A guild like that in a fantasy world, where a high level wizard can teleport into your home and immolate it with fireballs, relying on raw power would be suicide. It would also be too blunt an instrument to try to strongarm every adventurer into giving you their stuff. Sure, low level thieves are weak, but a mid-level thief returning with some item they want might prove harder to strongarm than you think.

And it would also be counter to the very skills that got the thief to high levels in the first place. Evasion and stealth, redirection and concealment.

And the goal is to hoard magic to gain power. How would a smart guild do that? Muscle everyone they can find? Not good enough.

Think about it, there are literally hundreds of thieves adventuring. If you can get them to come to you... Offer to equip them or assess their treasure, and then either steal things from them or offer to buy them. High level thieves need scroll spells, would a smart guildmaster try to ambush every thief that came into town to get these, or would she instead offer to buy them outright, taking something a low level thief wouldn’t be using anyway. Equip them, help them to achieve their goals, and this gives you a cut of the loot they take that you otherwise might not see at all. Smart guilds would treat thieves like Indiana Jones, taking a cut of whatever they find, or even having them steal things specifically for the guild. You can either go out to the dungeons yourself or get them to come to you. Get thieves indebted to you by equipping them for a cut of their take.

And not to mention the knowledge you gain of adventuring parties, what they are doing, what they find, guilds might even offer to send along a thief on the adventure if it sounds promising, etc.

Knowledge is power, do you get it by targeting random thieves and adventurers for their loot, or do you get them to come to you before and after adventuring, and bleed them for information while they are there by using your services and people. Webs stretching everywhere...

Its all about the magic and the gold, and adventurers are a line to that. The services just create dependencies you can exploit.

IMCs thieves as part of the guild are usually very observant of the communities that they claim as their own. They watch the moving of traffic and visitors and the comings and goings of the influential and the powerful. Information is power in a thieves guild.

If a PC is observed traveling in the seedy portions of town, questioning people in bars and taverns or practicing their pick-pocket trade...they will most likely be watched closely. The guild will only approach a PC after they have learned all that they can about the PC. They will learn where the PC lives, who are the PCs friends & acquaintances (can these friends be exploited by the guild for guild benefits), how wealthy is the PC, Are there skills that the PCs possesses that would be useful to the guild and Does the guild have need of the PC or is the PC going to be victimized.

If the PC would make a better mark than a member, probably a good robbing followed by a thorough , beating...with the PC then being dumped in some out of the way location. Maybe with a warning never to return or just a dagger in the ribs.

If the PC has skills the guild sees as useful, the guild may then approach the Pc with an offer...BUT ALWAYS from a position of power. Recruiting new members is touchy, are there any in the guild that will take on the newcomer and teach them guild ways and laws. And if the PC turns out to be trouble the teacher is just as guilty as the newby. Its a big risk to take on new members. But once a PC has gained entrance to the guild, the PC is also viewed as disposable. In fact the initial plan is most likely going to be to use the PC for a few jobs and then setup the young upstart to take the fall for a big job with a huge payout, while the guild walks away from the situation; or maybe just dump the PC with nothing and leave them on some lost coast.

PCs that ARE approached, are expected to join the guild when asked or suffer significant consequences if they are stupid enough to say "no". Freelancers in guild territories are not tolerated. New members of the guild are watched closely by all until they prove themselves. Even then, they may be exploited and then done away with and dumped somewhere. If they prove to be TOO Valuable...they have made enemies due to jealousies.

If the PC establishes themselves as loyal, trust-worthy and useful to the guild....they may be allowed to survive for a bit. Life in a thieves guild is tenuous at best.

The surest way for a PC to join a guild and ensure that they will not sleep with the fishes at the end of some dangerous, nefarious high payout job; is to gain position within the guild....learn who they can trust and ultimately take over the guild by eliminating ALL opposition within the guild. Just remember, "Its lonely at the top".

Thieves guilds are very unforgiving...membership in a guild is not for the feint of heart.

Goodfellas really seems to be the template I wind up using - although there AREN'T any rules from game to game for just what the thieves guild does, how or why. Certainly when the PC sets up his own guild he can do what he wants. Otherwise the tenets I use seem to be:
No independant operations in guild territory. You join or at least get VERY special permission if you're just passing through but running some kind of activity.
You pick your own jobs, your own targets - but you better not be targetting somebody you shouldn't. There isn't a clearance process. This is something you're just supposed to know; who and what is protected or off limits. The DM doesn't necessarily have to tell the player if he's screwing up.
You give the guildmaster a cut of your jobs - that's your dues. That's not to say that every pocket you pick means you hand over small change in payment. But any halfway decent crime that you're going to profit from - you PAY YOUR DUES. It's a thieves guild, not a union. There isn't a monthly fee just to be a member.
There's no formal process of becoming a "made man" within the guild but if you're gonna whack somebody you BETTER have the juice or the justification.
The guild might be able to hide you if you're being hounded, they might be able to exert pressures if you're caught, other guildies might be able to help with special skills or equipment, but the guild is not a supply house or hiring hall. You run your own crew and provide for yourself. The guild does not fence goods FOR you. However, there are fences which are naturally going to be known to the guild.
You can get away with stuff occasionally if the guildmaster likes you.
Bring too much heat onto the guild, give the guild a bad rep by your behavior on or off the job and you will get whacked.