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Visitor :  Dice Roller| Game Info| The Cast |
| FUZZY: Midmarch Religious Council. Posted by _ Brother Barthomew. | Group: 0 |
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| Author | Message | Page: 4 3 2 1 [all][bottom] |
You may, of course, PM clerics you know, asking them to put your case forwards. "Lord Henry has asked me to call you together so that you can discuss a number of religious matters that have come to light recently. There has been discussion concerning the worship of Hanspur, Gyronna and Besmara. Some have said that we should ban the worship of these deities, while other have suggested restrictions. Henry would like to understand the position of the Clergy of Midmarch." Gyronna = https://pathfinderwiki.com/wiki/Gyronna Hanspur = https://pathfinderwiki.com/wiki/Hanspur Besmara = https://pathfinderwiki.com/wiki/Besmara This message was last edited by the player at 15:52, Tue 09 June 2020. | |||||
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"For those who don't know me, I am Alisa D'Medvyed, priestess of the mostly forgotten, yet not wholly gone, Acavna. And I will offer my clear feelings on the potential presence of these three faiths in our lands." "And I shall start with the worst of them, that being Gyronna's sect. While I do feel compassion for some of those whom end up in the sick embrace of that spiteful faith, I can in no way condone a religion that delights in setting friends and loved ones at each others throats. And that also doesn't blink at robbing cradles, nor stooping to murder if it happens to serve their ends. Endorsing this faith is, in my view, tantamount to telling the population that if some tragedy should befall you, then you are entitled to spend the rest of your days taking it out on the innocent." She shook her white-maned head, lips frowning in her obvious distaste for Gyronna's creed. "Now, as for Hanspur...I doubt we'd otherwise be discussing this sect...save for the fact that cold blooded murder is woven straight into their ritual and rites. And what precedent does it set, to know for certain that the worshipers of this faith will commit murder, that it's only a matter of time, and to turn a blind on it? Hanspur is a failed demi-god, if I understand right, mostly abandoned by Gozreh, and held as an affront by Pharasma. A pair of gods have spoken as regards this one, and I feel we should pay heed to what they are indirectly telling us." "Besmara...the saint of the three," Alisa quipped in plain humor. "Relatively speaking. I could almost see making a case for her...in the same way that gods of thievery are sometimes accepted, if not loved, in all quarters. However, piracy is more likely than thievery to lead to bloodshed and loss of life. And the message here would be that it can be justified or excused as a matter of religious practice." She shook her again. "I may well be prejudiced. The one I serve made a great sacrifice to protect and spare mortal life. And I wouldn't at all be living up to her example by tolerating faiths that hold life in such disregard." She paused for a moment, almost finished, before adding- "If the choice were made to outright ban their practice, however -- the downside is that they may then practice in secret, and be even more dangerous for it. As well as possibly holding a grudge." This message was last edited by the player at 21:55, Tue 09 June 2020. | |||||
"Any church can gather in Midmarch right now, just only a handful have any kind of officially recognized houses or shrines of worship." she shrugged. "Hanspur... I think of the three he's the most misunderstood. He's not a failed demigod. He is a demigod. That said, I know most places ban his worship because of the rituals of his followers. Hells, maybe we could help encourage a new sect of Hanspur worship that just simulates the drownings or something." "Gyronna has nothing good to offer and I don't think we should allow official houses of worship to be publicly built to her or authorized her worship in Midmarch. "...And Besmara is just too chaotic to allow to have a large following here. it's antithetical to building a society or region up to worship piracy." | |||||
”Torag does not approve of any of them. Drowning people, piracy and spreading hatred should not be tolerated in a proper society.” Then with a ‘hurrumph’ he sits back down, crosses his arms across his chest and looks around the table, almost daring someone to contradict him. | |||||
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She is also interested in what did Kendrick mean by his question. "The church of Grandmother Crow obeys the just laws of the realm and gives succour to its orphans and the poor. Beyond that, what exactly is expected of us? We have no armies to answer anyone's call." | |||||
"Pharasma teaches that we should not judge the actions of others in life - that burden is hers alone when finally their souls stand before her." "Nor would she quarrel with any other god ... with perhaps a few exceptions." "Yet I am but a poor, unworthy priest," Ethankos smiles once more, more broadly, "and there are many in this world who bring with them weal and woe, and they I would gladly hurry on to that final judgment." "Tolerating the worship of those three, I feel would in no way bring hope or peace to these lands." | |||||
"I would strongly advise that the worship of all evil deities should be banned throughout Midmarch, with anyone caught actively worshipping an evil deity to be exiled from Midmarch. Gyronna is just one of the evil deities that would apply to. "If someone's worship of their deity involves a criminal act then they should be tried and punished for those crimes, and religious beliefs should not be allowed as a legal defence of those crimes. That would, of course, include anyone who drowns an innocent victim in Hanspur's name, regardless whether the deity himself is considered evil or not. "Places of worship of evil deities should not be permitted to be constructed in any of our settlements. If such places exist in less civilised places in Midmarch, well, we should endeavour to weed them out whenever it is practical to do so but I would caution the inexperienced against tampering with things they do not understand. Such places can be extremely dangerous to deal with. If in doubt, report it and someone more experienced can decide how to deal with it. "Any proposal to build a place of worship to any deity in any settlement requires the approval of the relevant authority, such as the City Council in Tusk. I would suggest that a deity like Besmara, the goddess of Piracy, Strife and Sea Monsters, should not be permitted any substantial place of worship in any settlement in Midmarch, even if she is not actually considered to be an evil deity. On the other hand, if some ship's captain considers it necessary to maintain a small shrine to Besmara on his ship to ward against pirates and sea monsters, so be it. "Actually, I would consider that approval to build a place of worship to a deity in a settlement would come with a perfectly reasonable expectation that the clergy attached to that place of worship should aid the settlement in whatever way they can in times of need. Some of us are suited to taking up arms in defence of the settlement, or to defending the settlement through the power of our prayers, while some are better suited to caring for the sick or wounded. I think that would be the most appropriate way to answer Kendrick's question." | |||||
The paladin scuffed his boots together. “Now hear me out. If Evil is illegal, then worship of an Evil deity is illegal. And if you say that Evil can’t be made illegal, then I think you should revise your knowledge of most church tenets. And non-evil churches that hold destructive practices, well like you said, that’s a zoning problem taken up with the local councils.” | |||||
"I am saying that if Lord Henry is allowing that churches to be built anywhere in the Midmarch, then there is a responsibility that goes with that." Kendrick answered the good brother. "Am I wrong in this expectation?" | |||||
Not that Alisa expected much complication for herself. Though she planned one day for something more, there was no church of Acavna, and she was the only 'force' serving the goddess in this land. This message was last edited by the player at 23:20, Wed 10 June 2020. | |||||
"While it isn't wrong for Lord Henry to expect cooperation from the churches within Midmarch. It is unreasonable to assume that Lord Henry has the right to decide who controls those churches. After all the Bishop of Abadar in Tusk holds a similar rank to his Lordship. Is it not ones Diety to whom we are all obligated to before any man? | |||||
"Lord Henry, as head of the leMaistre Family, exercises the right to appoint the head of the Pharasmin Abbey in Tusk. The House of Pharasma in Tusk was founded with his family's money, his cousin is the Abbess - and his family, as founders of the house, retain an interest in appointing succeeding leaders. There is, of course, a clause that requires that any new Abbot or Abbess is a properly consecrated priest of Pharasma, but the final choice rests with Henry." Then with a nod towards Ethankos and Marceline he continues "Henry does not, of course, object to any other Pharasmin priests setting up their own religious houses or ministering to their followers." That mimics the Patronage system of some early British Churches, that were established by nobles. Second son of the Noble went into the church, and finished up running the local church (if they didn't get a higher ranking position) In the case of some abbeys, appointment of a new Abbot required authority from the King. | |||||
"While what authority we priests have comes from the gods, still we are fallible men and women ... and we are subject to those that stand above us within our own orders, as Lord Henry is subject to those who rank above him." "What of the farmers and smiths and shopkeeps who work hard and ply their trade ? What should they do if their priest says one thing and the law another ?" "Church and state can work together, but we too must be subject to the law and by extension to the ultimate authority of Lord Henry ... though I find it heartening that our ruler has not simply pronounced those laws from on high, but seeks our help to shape them for the benefit of all." | |||||
The only concrete thing that I see would be a magic economy tax. Unless we are taking about a more... abstract form of support? In which case, harrumph, harrumph. The church of Andoletta continues to support Lord Henry's requests 100%, as long as he continues to never actually make any. |
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