OOC 3.   Posted by DM.Group: 0
Cyrus Lebeda-Ondari
 Player, 1173 posts
 Lord Ringbridge
 Knight Commander
Thu 1 Apr 2021
at 01:12
Re: OOC 3
Public transit???
Marceline Gray
 player, 288 posts
 Half-Elf Inquisitor
Thu 1 Apr 2021
at 01:22
Re: OOC 3
I mean, as much as Pathfinder seems determined to remain in medieval stasis, there's no real reason why there couldn't be a form of public transport - a rotation of wagons on a schedule doesn't feel too crazy or 'unrealistic' given that Golarion has a half-dozen fantasy concept mashed into a single continent.
Vova doMedvyed
 player, 109 posts
 It's easy to make a mess
 when you don't clean up!
Thu 1 Apr 2021
at 02:28
Re: OOC 3

 Not to mention telecommunications.

 https://wiki.lspace.org/mediawiki/Clacks
Cyrus Lebeda-Ondari
 Player, 1174 posts
 Lord Ringbridge
 Knight Commander
Thu 1 Apr 2021
at 02:34
Re: OOC 3
Couldn’t they have a Riverboat? Or multiple boats traveling on a schedule?

And there should be some sort of old school postal service leveraging caravans, wagon trains and horses or magic of some means.
DM
 GM, 4622 posts
Thu 1 Apr 2021
at 07:10
Re: OOC 3
*grin*  Interesting ideas, and some of them are already written into the rules.

To some extent, tax breaks for Shopping Malls and even regular  transport systems are written into the tax rules.  You guys get the lowest tax rate and highest commercial profitability of all  the published areas/towns/cities.
Both have come to prominence (in the real world) with the rise of the Service Economy where countries shift their economic focus from farming and manufacturing towards hairdressing  interior design, the music / film industry (etc) shopping as a leisure activity.  Modern activities that need  peasants / commoners (ie you and me)  to have quite a lot of leisure time and a decent income.    That needs good technology,  long distance transport and communications (or an Empire) that gets you cheap food (etc) from abroad.  Anyway, enough philosophy …  I can go on all day about things like that, I find it fascinating.  If any of you are bored and need something to read -  see if you can find J D Bernal’s Science in History – It has some marvellous examples of technology from across history.  The ancient Greeks (for example)  had a mechanical Taxi Meter that worked out what to charge passengers, according to the distance travelled ..
But, enough of that.  You guys already have the tax breaks for that, built into the economic system.  Really good tax and profitability rates for businesses -  and there are  regular boats, ships, mule trains travelling between the various settlements.

We have sewers as well , actually two different ways of doing it.  Paved streets and good guttering are both possible.  If you look at the map of Tusk http://rp.baileymail.net/lib/e...egion:tusk:tusk3.gif  The sand-coloured districts have paved streets (the rest are just mud streets)  There are rules for surface drains, public fresh water fountains and street lights.

Underground sewerage systems (as per London’s sewers) are much more expensive  as you have to dig (at that is really expensive.    However, that does suggest that Night Soil collectors could be a public service  - and is possibly worth a couple of points of Loyalty.  I would be happy with any ruler who took my Poo away regularly (when there isn’t any sewage system)

As for telecoms, I have been looking in to it  :)   Magically, it is quite expensive, and I don’t trust the Kobolds to run the clacks.  (BTW, I have property deeds for a house in Treacle Mine Road here, somewhere.  That was an Xmas present from my son, a few years ago.)

I think I am tempted to add a ‘Public Arena’ as well -  Both the Greeks and Romans used cheap public entertainment to keep the plebs on-side – and I am sure that I can re-flavour that for Ancient Taldans ….

A stadium  (a nice Roman word)  that can host horse races , foot races, throwing contests, spectacles (such as a Military Tattoo and ‘Animal Hunts’) – Oh, and a regular Scrymball season where district teams compete against each other.  (And no, I am not joking)
Adoven Lodovka-Sud
 Player, 1007 posts
 AC 22 F+3 R+10 W+3
 Rogue / Bard, HP 45/45
Thu 1 Apr 2021
at 07:43
Re: OOC 3
Sounds like I need to recruit Harry King ("King of the Golden River") as an entourage to handle a potentially valuable service/business.

As for contests, Chariot Races are always fun to watch......
DM
 GM, 4623 posts
Thu 1 Apr 2021
at 07:52
Re: OOC 3
Adoven Lodovka-Sud:
As for contests, Chariot Races are always fun to watch......


I wasn't thinking quite that big -   but flat out Sulky racing would work, around a small enclosed course.  It would be absolute mayhem ...   Just like a chariot race :)

Although I am not sure the druids would approve ....
DM
 GM, 4624 posts
Thu 1 Apr 2021
at 08:38
Re: OOC 3
Oooohh -  I think I have got magical 'land line' type connectivity down to about 15k per unit ....
Vova doMedvyed
 player, 110 posts
 It's easy to make a mess
 when you don't clean up!
Thu 1 Apr 2021
at 13:39
Re: OOC 3
In reply to DM (msg # 821):

 They are lawful, as well as natural mechanical engineers... They might do shockingly well at it. ^_^
DM
 GM, 4625 posts
Thu 1 Apr 2021
at 15:11
Re: OOC 3
In reply to Vova doMedvyed (msg # 825):

*grins* although they are inherently evil and will find ways to use all of that information to their advantage.  Ye Gods, the Facebook, Google and Amazon of the Clacks ....

Note: Other big data collectors are available.  Please feel free to add your own favourites to the list.  Palantir was named very appropriately  :)
Vova doMedvyed
 player, 111 posts
 It's easy to make a mess
 when you don't clean up!
Thu 1 Apr 2021
at 16:40
Re: OOC 3

 Bah, evil schmeeval. Give them a niche and a purpose and a measure of resurrect and you can work on that... Besides, it's better than a gnome infestation.
DM
 GM, 4626 posts
Thu 1 Apr 2021
at 19:51
Re: OOC 3
I've been playing with the Community Developments page.  There are a few more options, and it is a bit more coherent  :)

http://rp.baileymail.net/doku....mmunity#developments
Adoven Lodovka-Sud
 Player, 1008 posts
 AC 22 F+3 R+10 W+3
 Rogue / Bard, HP 45/45
Thu 1 Apr 2021
at 20:08
Re: OOC 3
So the community Hall I built in the hamlet will generate bp? 0.25 bp per turn? I assume that such bp can only be spent on the community?
DM
 GM, 4627 posts
Thu 1 Apr 2021
at 20:28
Re: OOC 3
Yep.  Although I suspect, in that particular case, that income will be distributed directly to members of the community -  perhaps used to finance small local events,   such as barn dances.  I assume you don't want to give up space in the Hamlet for extra community projects as that would affect your ability to build a Local Base for V&A. :)

Not a loss to you personally or V&A, as you built the community Hall under the old rules when it only cost 1bp, rather than under the new rules where it costs 1.5bp.

It does, however, keep you in good stead with the locals :)
DM
 GM, 4631 posts
Sat 3 Apr 2021
at 09:12
Re: OOC 3
I have just added a section on the outer districts of Restov -  which you can find linked from the main Restov wiki page.

http://rp.baileymail.net/doku....:brevoy:restov:start
DM
 GM, 4632 posts
Sun 4 Apr 2021
at 12:10
Re: OOC 3
More on The Eastern Association, East Rostland and Sirian.

http://rp.baileymail.net/doku....en_land:start#brevoy

This message was last edited by the GM at 12:10, Sun 04 Apr.

DM
 GM, 4633 posts
Mon 5 Apr 2021
at 08:44
Re: OOC 3
Once I get started ...   A further blog on the Magic Economy

http://galinia.org.uk/the-magic-economy-2
Adoven Lodovka-Sud
 Player, 1009 posts
 AC 22 F+3 R+10 W+3
 Rogue / Bard, HP 45/45
Mon 5 Apr 2021
at 09:17
Re: OOC 3
So Bardic Colleges, Luxury Stores, and Holy Houses will only put out 0.5 bp in Magic Economy per turn, but will cost 1 bp less to build?
DM
 GM, 4634 posts
Mon 5 Apr 2021
at 10:13
Re: OOC 3
I have just added a section to the Blog post that looks at the effects of applying those changes.  It keeps things really simple (as far as  management goes), upgrades some buildings, and adds another religious  development.

The overall effect is a reduction in magic income, but that is reflected in the purchase price of the development.
Andalon de Lebeda
 Player, 1165 posts
 Bishop at Cathedral of
 Abadar in Tusk City
Mon 5 Apr 2021
at 13:50
Re: OOC 3
OK, have I got this right?

For religious developments the possible sequence of upgrades (and cumulative BP cost at each stage) would be like this:
  • Shrine(0.5)-> Great Shrine(1)-> Holy Grove(3)
  • Shrine(0.5)-> Great Shrine(1)-> Holy House(2)-> Friary(3.5)-> Priory(5.5)-> Abbey(8)
  • Shrine(0.5)-> Great Shrine(1)-> Holy House(2)-> Chapel(3.5)-> Temple(6)-> Minster(8.5)-> Cathedral(11)


Income generated (from the Magic Economy value of the religious development) increases as the cumulative BP cost of the development increases as follows:
  •   2.0BP religious development generates 0.5BP per turn
  •   3.0BP religious development generates 1.0BP per turn
  •   3.5BP religious development generates 1.0BP per turn
  •   5.5BP religious development generates 1.5BP per turn
  •   6.0BP religious development generates 1.5BP per turn
  •   8.0BP religious development generates 2.0BP per turn
  •   8.5BP religious development generates 2.0BP per turn
  • 11.0BP religious development generates 2.5BP per turn


A graveyard can be added to any other religious building (except a shrine or great shrine) as an 'upgrade' (costs 1BP, adds +1 Loyalty and +1 Stability, generates no income).
DM
 GM, 4635 posts
Mon 5 Apr 2021
at 14:04
Re: OOC 3
That looks about right.  I think it gives achievable, but differentiated, upgrade routes, although I am not going to complain, if someone decides to move between upgrade routes, in mid development.


Your analysis implies that I need to look at the Holy Grove route, and slide a Holy House equivalent in the development route somewhere and, perhaps, reflavour other developments for a Greater Grove and the Druid's Grove, -  etc.

Yep, that whole upgrade route needs a bit of thought.
Kiera Raincutter-Solanus
 player, 306 posts
Tue 6 Apr 2021
at 00:56
Re: OOC 3
Hmmm... downtime thread is open... I'm about done with a post for my group.... and with everyone out of town... I think it's about time for a "But back in Tusk..." style twist to things going on, hehe...
DM
 GM, 4638 posts
Tue 6 Apr 2021
at 13:59
Re: OOC 3
The economic changes are all coming together in a variety of different ways, that will help me with the system immensely.  However, it is also making me realise there is much more it could do, now that it has been simplified.

DON'T PANIC - I am not going to implement any massive changes -  however, it is good for me to write them down - it helps me think them through) and gives me some notes for next time I use these rules.

http://galinia.org.uk/thoughts-on-the-economy-rules

As always, I would be interested to hear your views on these.
Adoven Lodovka-Sud
 Player, 1010 posts
 AC 22 F+3 R+10 W+3
 Rogue / Bard, HP 45/45
Tue 6 Apr 2021
at 17:58
Re: OOC 3
I think your example numbers are off.

But Tax is at the discretion of the council.  Standard tax generates 0.2bp per pint of econ in the economy.

I can see, in some circumstances, city rulers putting tax up – lets say to 2.5bp per point of economy.  That would result in a 0.5 reduction in business profitability – and a possible slowing of the economy and settlement growth.

OOC- Shouldn't that be 0.25 bp per Econ pt and 0.05 bp reduction in profitibility?


A council might also drop tax– lets say to 1.5bp per point of economy.  That would result in a 0.5 increase in business profitability – which might result in  the economy and settlement growth, speeding up.

OOC- Shouldn't that be 0.15 and 0.05 respectively?
DM
 GM, 4639 posts
Tue 6 Apr 2021
at 18:18
Re: OOC 3
Yes.  I'll change it.  Thank you.