OOC 3.   Posted by DM.Group: 0
Adoven
 Player, 728 posts
 HP 40 AC 20 F+2 R+9 W+2
 Rogue / Bard
Fri 17 Jul 2020
at 11:30
Re: OOC 3
Then I shall EARN us a spot on the Council by becoming a Merchant Prince.
Kiera
 player, 226 posts
Fri 17 Jul 2020
at 11:40
Re: OOC 3
In the end, they're using us to set up the southern border on our gold and effort so they can yank it away in the future for doling out to supporters/family members they need to send away/just because they feel like it.  They get infrastructure without having to pay for it, we get rear-ended grande style because we're not them.

Like the GM said, welcome to politics when you're the little guy/girl.  They let us play around until we find something they want or get everything set up- at which point they come over, kick our sand castles down, and plop in whatever imbecile of a family member needs or is loudly throwing a tantrum for a position of some import somewhere.

You want your little corner to remain yours?  Get good at ducking the notice of the noble families and hope someone else pisses them off/interests them a lot more than your little corner of Golarion.
Cass Mordane
 Player, 601 posts
 Opportunist
Fri 17 Jul 2020
at 11:58
Re: OOC 3
I see nothing wrong with “inquiring” about our representative on the Council of Peers. Or given that all current members are at work on loftier matters that we could suggest that Lady Viktoria d'Lodkova be invited to join the Council for that distinct purpose.

Nor do I see anything wrong with the establishment of another council, expressly for the communication and facilitation of unified goals of the “Marcher Lords” or that no mention that such a council exists outside the members of said council. We won’t bother to worry Henry with such things. Ever more busy by the day that poor man. I shan’t be surprised that he doesn’t try a cloning spell to allow himself a brief respite now and then.

We have been charged with defending “our” lands by the establishment of military defenses for just that purpose. I propose that we make that a priority. And it would be less than conscientious of us to slow in our commitment until we have developed no less than double the forces of the entirety of all other Brevic forces not under our jurisdiction.

It would then be interesting to have the Peerage Council determine one of our fellow Marcher Lords should be removed of their position when all we other Marcher Lords disagree. Would they try to have them physically removed? A risky venture should they be only able to muster half of our forces in total. And if those aforementioned Aldori did indeed choose to stay home?

As our good friend Henry has taught us:

Welcome to Politics. :)

This message was last edited by the player at 12:00, Fri 17 July 2020.

~Magatha Primrose
 NPC e, 16 posts
 Mordanian
Fri 17 Jul 2020
at 12:05
Re: OOC 3
Council of
Internal
Affairs
DM
 GM, 3843 posts
Fri 17 Jul 2020
at 12:11
Re: OOC 3
As Cass points out, if somewhat obliquely,  putting strong military defences along a border is a double-edged sword.

It can be used to stop the enemy invading Brevoy - But it might also be used to influence Brevoy.

However, you should note that when Henry, and Midmarch, appeared to be getting as powerful as one of the great noble families - things changed.  Technically nothing has been taken from Henry (on a Personal or Family level)  he has even been promoted to a higher ranking, more influential position.

However, his overall influence in Brevoy has been reduced.

As Kiera implied  'Softly, softly, catchee monkey'
Cass Mordane
 Player, 602 posts
 Opportunist
Fri 17 Jul 2020
at 12:16
Re: OOC 3
I was wondering if there might be an update in the influence chart. Not that I am trying to rush you. Just curious as to how much perceived difference there actually is with this new structure.
DM
 GM, 3844 posts
Fri 17 Jul 2020
at 12:29
Re: OOC 3
Cass Mordane:
I was wondering if there might be an update in the influence chart.


Eventually  ......  As you guessed,   I have a lot to do before the next campaign round and only about 5 months to do it .....  :)
Andalon de Lebeda
 Player, 980 posts
 Bishop at Cathedral of
 Abadar in Tusk City
Fri 17 Jul 2020
at 12:33
Re: OOC 3
Reading the discussion above I can't help thinking perhaps there needs to be something in the Kingdom building rules about the balance required between Economy / Stability / Loyalty and Defence. Particularly whether there should be a penalty if there is too much or too little Defence?

I mean, if 50% of the workforce is conscripted into the militia and the other half is either working overtime just to feed them or taxed to the hilt to support them, you will soon be hearing cries of "The peasants are revolting, M'Lord!"  ;o)
Kiera
 player, 227 posts
Fri 17 Jul 2020
at 13:33
Re: OOC 3
Here's the thing:

Henry was sent to the Stolen Lands to get rid of the Stag Lord and to occupy the area for Brevoy.  Obviously, he did that.  But I doubt that the Houses ever believed he was going to be this successful or this powerful- and then we went and waggled out tails at both sides when the war broke out, and that scared the Houses something fierce- Midmarch was getting to be too powerful, too influential- and if there's anything old, ancient structures of political power absolutely loathe, it's a new kid on the block with growing popularity that could start chipping away at their own power base.

So they neutered Henry's power in Midmarch and the Aldori's in Restov, and made it look like they were honoring and praising the both of them when in reality, they were cutting away their power bases in Restov and Tusk- and limiting his borders and tempting us away from him with offers of our own little slices of property and holdings so they can treat with us more directly without having to go through Henry and his staff... to feel us out as individuals instead of as one big group- because saddling us with our own little territories to worry about means we'll be busy and unable to help Henry if they decide to tighten the screws on him, should he get ornery in their eyes again.

Not to mention, if we make too much noise or problems, what's to say they won't swoop in and boot us out of our Marcher territories if we develop it enough or find something they find interesting, like gold or magic or whatever?

It's okay if we go out and get land- but we've got to be careful we don't make too much noise doing so for now...
Andalon de Lebeda
 Player, 981 posts
 Bishop at Cathedral of
 Abadar in Tusk City
Fri 17 Jul 2020
at 13:59
Re: OOC 3
Would you say that glass in your hand is half full or half empty, Kiera? It looks half full to me.

The creation of the position of Marcher Lord now offers a new incentive and reward for people brave and ambitious enough to build themselves a stronghold along the southern border of Brevoy, strengthening that southern border in the process. I would be very surprised if any Marcher Lords loyal to the nation of Brevoy (rather than those who draw attention by declaring their loyalty specifically to the Regent or the Aldori, for example) were to be arbitrarily displaced in future by the Council of Peers. It is the rotten apples that get thrown away, not the good ones.
Kiera
 player, 228 posts
Fri 17 Jul 2020
at 14:12
Re: OOC 3
Hey, I'm suspicious of everything- you ought to see me at Costco around the free sample stations, or a used car lot! :P

I guess it depends on how you view it, I suppose- though at the moment, we're not exactly their favorite of favoritest people, so I'm just always looking for the strings attached to any offer they make to us.  A half-full glass is also a half-empty glass, after all.

So you guys can go ahead and indulge and get your Marcher on- I might, in a bit if there's still land available, but right now, would you think Kiera would be any good at politics, going around half-pickled like she usually does and speaking her mind with no filter?

Besides- everyone opening their own settlements allows me the chance to wheel and deal and open up businesses in said settlements and towns- making a network of places to crash and bolt if I'm in town!  Having a BP or two to kick around and patch things up with would also be a great thing to have, hehe, and a reason to travel and carry things like messages and other things on he between territories, well... I think that might be kind of helpful. :P
Adoven
 Player, 729 posts
 HP 40 AC 20 F+2 R+9 W+2
 Rogue / Bard
Fri 17 Jul 2020
at 14:17
Re: OOC 3
Half-pickled? You'd be perfect running one of my Holy Houses dedicated to Cayden.
Cass Mordane
 Player, 603 posts
 Opportunist
Fri 17 Jul 2020
at 17:37
Re: OOC 3
Kiera:
Besides- everyone opening their own settlements allows me the chance to wheel and deal and open up businesses in said settlements and towns- making a network of places to crash and bolt if I'm in town!  Having a BP or two to kick around and patch things up with would also be a great thing to have, hehe, and a reason to travel and carry things like messages and other things on he between territories, well... I think that might be kind of helpful. :P


That is a cool way to role play it.

And Cass is in agreement about not making the wrong noises were the overlords can hear. In fact, maybe we need to make a few of the right noises so that they may hear that instead. Such as holding a feast day to celebrate Tusk as a free city. Maybe it could be the annual Independence Day celebration. Not a full blown RP event, just something for the books. Henry might want to do the same to celebrate his Barony.
DM
 GM, 3845 posts
Sat 18 Jul 2020
at 08:23
Re: OOC 3
I am will be working on Patents and Charters over the next few days - and you can track progress here.  http://rp.baileymail.net/doku....land:general:patents

I will rework  the draft charters, that I put up for discussion, slightly to try and get a more consistent structure and incorporate Cass's point about 'Defence of the Realm' - although there won't be any  huge changes to what was published.

Hopefully, when this little project is finished, it will give us a clear structure of Nobility (Etc) to work towards.

This message was last edited by the GM at 08:23, Sat 18 July 2020.

Kiera
 player, 229 posts
Sat 18 Jul 2020
at 08:52
Re: OOC 3
Cass Mordane:
Kiera:
Besides- everyone opening their own settlements allows me the chance to wheel and deal and open up businesses in said settlements and towns- making a network of places to crash and bolt if I'm in town!  Having a BP or two to kick around and patch things up with would also be a great thing to have, hehe, and a reason to travel and carry things like messages and other things on he between territories, well... I think that might be kind of helpful. :P


That is a cool way to role play it.

And Cass is in agreement about not making the wrong noises were the overlords can hear. In fact, maybe we need to make a few of the right noises so that they may hear that instead. Such as holding a feast day to celebrate Tusk as a free city. Maybe it could be the annual Independence Day celebration. Not a full blown RP event, just something for the books. Henry might want to do the same to celebrate his Barony.


Well, I think of it this way:

When you guys create your Marcher territories, I imagine you’re going to get deluged with political stuff- offers of alliances, people seeking dirt or leverage on your allies, etc.- and having an unofficial way to get messages and warnings to each other outside of official mail, or someone to go in and poke around in a town where you can’t have an official presence... and where else are people going to talk besides while they shoot the crap over a cold beer or to impress a handsome man or beautiful woman they might have paid for time with? One of Henry’s people would draw suspicion, one of your own would, as well. But the woman who owns the local roadhouse or bar or brothel, who might be seeing some barrels of booze or escorting new talent to somewhere new? Who’d want to be known as the bunch who stopped the beer from getting to thirsty customers, especially in towns with no brewery or winery nearby? She has a legitimate reason to travel everywhere.

I might be a constant stopper at Caydenite religious houses- I don’t mind them one bit- but he’s not really for me.  But if you wanted to send some of them by on occasion, they wouldn’t get tossed out. :)

This message was last edited by the player at 08:57, Sat 18 July 2020.

DM
 GM, 3850 posts
Mon 20 Jul 2020
at 08:16
Re: OOC 3
City  (ie Tusk) and March-Hold charters have now been added.

http://rp.baileymail.net/doku....#settlement_charters
Cass Mordane
 Player, 604 posts
 Opportunist
Mon 20 Jul 2020
at 09:24
Re: OOC 3
Great work as ever, boss.
Andalon de Lebeda
 Player, 983 posts
 Bishop at Cathedral of
 Abadar in Tusk City
Mon 20 Jul 2020
at 12:04
Re: OOC 3
Mmmm ... 7 hex donut!

Everyone is going to want one. Might be time to invent a new spell ... Know recipe!  ;o)

But seriously, the charters look good to me.
DM
 GM, 3851 posts
Tue 21 Jul 2020
at 09:04
Re: OOC 3
I have been doing more work and more thinking about Patents and Charters.

I have been asked a couple of times if a PC can build a large estate/holding  in a way that other PCs could pledge 'allegiance' to  - in other words, a mini-Midmarch. So far we haven't had a specific guidance for that, so I would have been making stuff as I went along, and then playing catchup with the rules - just life I have been with the March-Lord holdings. :)Considering how that has put the Aristocracy/Noble system 'front and centre' for the time being, I thought I would address that  now.

As I look at the charters and patents -  it is becoming clear that Governors, Lord-Mayors and Barons are all regional leaders who should  have a (roughly) equally influence, rights and responsibilities.  And I have decided to give all three the right to create Lairds and Lords-Dominus without recourse to the Council of Peers.
  • Laird -  'owns' either a hex or a Hamlet that they are hereditary 'lords' of.  Both Safiya and Marik is laird of two settlements in Midmarch.  Technically Cass is Laird  of Silverton  AND Lord Mayor of Tusk.   This is a very minor position in the Aristocracy and doesn't really get ant extra influence.
  • Lord-Dominus - doesn't need to be a landowner, but promises support to their 'overlord'.   Cyrus (Ringbridge) is an example of this.  Adoven with 5 defence points to pledge (Manor House, Sword School, Military College) will also be a Lord-Dominus.


Examples

Character1 wants to build an independent stronghold - away from Henry's (or anyone else's immediate control) They can follow this route ..
  1. Set up a march-Hold.  This will allow them to appoint Lairds ...
  2. Build 5 points of defence - apply to the council for Lord-Dominus rank
  3. Increase defence to 10 BP - apply to the council for lordship
  4. Increase defence to 15 BP - apply to the council for Barony
  5. Promote Lairds to Lords-Dominus etc ...


Character2 wants to build a more 'traditional' barony.  They can follow this route ...
  1. Get a hex from Henry -  This will allow them to appoint Lairds ...
  2. Build 5 points of defence - apply to Henry for Lord-Dominus rank
  3. Increase defence to 10 BP - ask Henry to apply to the council for lordship
  4. Increase defence to 15 BP - ask Henry to apply to the council for Barony
  5. Promote Lairds to Lords-Dominus etc ...


Alternately -  build 'New Tusk' somewhere and get yourself appointed as Lord mayor.

This message was last edited by the GM at 09:18, Tue 21 July 2020.

DM
 GM, 3852 posts
Tue 21 Jul 2020
at 09:18
Re: OOC 3
I have aloso editted the 'Inflence in brevoy' page

http://rp.baileymail.net/doku....rt#ranking_of_nobles

That uses a 'finger in the air'  calculation, based on Recent events.  I'll review it properly later  :)
Cass Mordane
 Player, 606 posts
 Opportunist
Tue 21 Jul 2020
at 09:21
Re: OOC 3
What about controlling more than one adjacent hex?
DM
 GM, 3853 posts
Tue 21 Jul 2020
at 09:30
Re: OOC 3
Andalon pointed out that Def Points are not part of the balance mechanism for settlements -  but now Def Points are more relevant to settlement build.

So  I am planning to add a stipulation that Def Points must always be the lowest of Econ, Loy, Stab and Def.

Although it will be written as Def must be lower than Econ, Loy, or Stab.

Econ 4, Loy 5, or Stab 3.  Def 2 = OK

Econ 4, Loy 5, or Stab 3.  Def 3 = not OK

This message was last edited by the GM at 10:00, Tue 21 July 2020.

DM
 GM, 3854 posts
Wed 22 Jul 2020
at 07:34
Re: OOC 3
Cass Mordane:
What about controlling more than one adjacent hex?



If they are contiguous,  it just expands as in Ringbridge, Tatzleford or Safiya's Holdings.  If they are spread out, (Like Henry and Marik) - well we will cross that bridge when we come to it - But I can't see a problem unless it is a blatant land grab :)



BTW -  I have completed all the work I intend to do on Charters and patents -  Unless someone finds an issue with them.

I have used Henry, Marik, Cyrus, Zelona, Adoven and Andalon as examples ... :P
DM
 GM, 3855 posts
Wed 22 Jul 2020
at 08:08
Re: OOC 3
My next mini-project is to review the costs of building developments.  Recently I have noticed an anomaly with the cost of buildings that create magic items, that needs to be corrected.  There has always been a price structure, so that there is no great advantage in one type of building / economy over another, but I haven't applied it consistently - so this seems like a good time to do this.

The base cost structure to build will be :-

+1 Loy0.5bp
+1 Stab0.5bp
+1 Econ1bp
+1 Def1bp
Magic Item2bp
  
3* Building0.5 bp
4* Building1bp
5* Building3bp
6* Building5bp
7* Building8bp

Modified

This message was last edited by the GM at 09:39, Wed 22 July 2020.

Adoven
 Player, 732 posts
 HP 40 AC 20 F+2 R+9 W+2
 Rogue / Bard
Wed 22 Jul 2020
at 08:13
Re: OOC 3
So a Luxury Store now costs 4.5 bp?
0.5 bp for ***
2 bp for +2 Econ
2 bp for Minor: 1?