Fuzzy: The Midmarch Council.   Posted by DM.Group: 0
Pipre
 Player, 602 posts
 AC 18; HP 32/32; 9/9 Bmbs
Mon 6 Nov 2017
at 18:52
Fuzzy:  The Midmarch Council
Pipre doesn't have to think about this one very long, barely taking a break in her rolled cigarette. "Agreed."
Henry LeMaistre
 NPC, 70 posts
 NPC - Charter Holder
 Noble & Merchant
Mon 6 Nov 2017
at 18:58
Fuzzy:  The Midmarch Council
Henry looks up and asks, "What about indentured service as a punishment of the courts?  Say a person owes a debt that they can't pay off.  How should the court punish them?  In many places the state pay the debt and the debtor is indentured to work for the state until they have paid that debt off.

What are your views on that?  How else should the courts deal with the debtor?  Exile?  Death? Loss of a limb?"

Adoven
 Player, 119 posts
 Rogue / Bard
Mon 6 Nov 2017
at 22:20
Fuzzy:  The Midmarch Council
"No" answers Adoven harshly. "Mutilating a person for inability to pay off a debt gains you nothing but a stain on your soul. Hard times can occur to anyone. Indentured work to the state at least provides a viable contribution and may even teach a man a new trade."
Cyrus Lebeda-Ondari
 Player, 895 posts
 Human Fighter
 Sword and Shield
Tue 7 Nov 2017
at 02:32
Fuzzy:  The Midmarch Council
Cyrus had been quiet for much of the initial conversation but chimed in and said, "The only problem I see with indentured servitude is determining a fair wage. I've heard tales of those men being taken advantage of by unfair wages and less than honest means of accounting... Are there any measures we can put into place to limit the opportunities for a man or woman to find themselves indentured?"
Valoria Lebeda-Ondari
 Secondary, 270 posts
 Wizard
 Lady
Tue 7 Nov 2017
at 06:12
Fuzzy:  The Midmarch Council
Valoria began to write as the Council spoke about slavery and  involuntary servitude. “It seems that we all agree that slavery should be outlawed. I think the only concern now is to establish how a person can become indentured. A set of three basic laws, written down and guaranteed by a charter would go a long way to assure the minds of all. This is what I would suggest my lord.”

Valoria then hands the Charter she wrote down to Henry.

The Charter of Midmarch

1. Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for a crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the Midmarch.

2. In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury and/or Lord judge of the Midmarch.

3. No person shall be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb.

This message was last edited by the player at 06:17, Tue 07 Nov 2017.

Henry LeMaistre
 NPC, 71 posts
 NPC - Charter Holder
 Noble & Merchant
Tue 7 Nov 2017
at 06:38
Fuzzy:  The Midmarch Council
Henry nods at Val's suggestions.  He appears happy to accept the first point although,   "You good people, the Midmarch Chapter of The Brevic Order,  are the Judges, Jury and  Commissioners of punishment.  You preside the trials.  Now, while a formal trial is nice in the city, it is less useful in wilderlands - and at the moment we are much more wilderlands than we are city.

I am not sure that we should have anything that makes you officers bring a miscreant into a city for justice.  I would rather you were able to deal with it quickly, effectively and efficiently - in the most appropriate way."

Valoria Lebeda-Ondari
 Secondary, 271 posts
 Wizard
 Lady
Tue 7 Nov 2017
at 06:52
Fuzzy:  The Midmarch Council
Valoria nods to Henry and rewrites to best reflect his wishes. “How is this to your liking, my lord?”

The Charter of Midmarch

1. Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for a crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the Midmarch.

2. In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy swift justice. The Midmarch Chapter of The Brevic Order, are the Judges, Jury and Commissioners of punishment.

3. No person shall be punished for the same crime twice.

Henry LeMaistre
 NPC, 72 posts
 NPC - Charter Holder
 Noble & Merchant
Tue 7 Nov 2017
at 07:08
Fuzzy:  The Midmarch Council
Henry Nods.  "I much prefer that.  Especially the way you have rewritten the third point.  It means we can try people again later, if more evidence becomes available.  It means that you can make a decision to ignore something while you are on the road, but bring a miscreant to a proper trial later."

"Does anyone else have any thoughts on this subject?"
Andalon de Lebeda
 Player, 486 posts
 Cleric of Abadar
Tue 7 Nov 2017
at 12:32
Fuzzy:  The Midmarch Council
"I have no objection to those proposed laws," Andalon responded after a little thought. "However, the Temple of Abadar in Restov is offering to let people work off their debts by helping the church develop in this area, which provides an example of a less onerous arrangement than indentured servitude in cases where it is decided a debtor does not need to work full-time to repay what they owe. It means those people are still able to support themselves during that period instead of us having to house and feed them, which would just add to the debt they are working off."

"The next question is probably about taxes. The administration, protection and development of our settlements and lands will require funds to be contributed equitably by everyone in Midmarch but must not take so much that it stifles development opportunities and leaves no incentive to invest here. What do you have in mind, Henry?" Andalon asked.
Henry LeMaistre
 NPC, 73 posts
 NPC - Charter Holder
 Noble & Merchant
Tue 7 Nov 2017
at 13:05
Fuzzy:  The Midmarch Council
"If the Church of Abadar is prepared to lend a debtor the money he need to pay off his debt and then undertake to collect the money from him, so much the better. It might save us a court case and the problems that go with it.

I agree with you about taxes. I spent years making a living as a merchant ..."

Valoria Lebeda-Ondari
 Secondary, 274 posts
 Wizard
 Lady
Tue 7 Nov 2017
at 16:37
Fuzzy:  The Midmarch Council
Valoria continues writing and amending the Charter. “My cousin is right. We do need to lay taxes and some protections for merchants.” Acting as scribe for the Council, Valoria hands the amended document to Henry to see what he thinks.

The Charter of Midmarch

1. Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for a crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the Midmarch.

2. In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy swift justice. The Midmarch Chapter of The Brevic Order, are the Judges, Jury and Commissioners of punishment.

3. No person shall be punished for the same crime twice. 

4. The Midmarch Council  shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, and without regard to any census or enumeration.

5. All merchants may enter or leave Midmarch unharmed and without fear, and may stay or travel within it, by land or water, for purposes of trade, free from all illegal extractions. This, however, does not apply in time of war to merchants from a country that is at war with us. Any such merchants found in our country at the outbreak of war shall be detained without injury to their persons or property, until we have discovered how our own merchants are being treated in the country at war with us. If our own merchants are safe they shall be safe too.

DM
 GM, 1854 posts
Mon 13 Nov 2017
at 16:45
Fuzzy:  The Midmarch Council
This charter has now been incorporated into Midmarch law.

http://rp.baileymail.net/doku....and:midmarch:the_law

You may add further clauses if you wish.
DM
 GM, 1921 posts
Fri 29 Dec 2017
at 13:06
Fuzzy:  The Midmarch Council
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This message was lightly edited by the GM at 13:08, Fri 29 Dec 2017.

Henry LeMaistre
 NPC, 80 posts
 NPC - Charter Holder
 Noble & Merchant
Fri 29 Dec 2017
at 13:16
Fuzzy:  The Midmarch Council
Henry reads through the document in front of him and taps lightly on the table to bring the meeting to order.

”I have a paper here, from a cleric of Hanspur,  asking us to implement the River Freedoms as followed by The River Kingdoms.  They are ….

  1. Say What You Will, I Live Free
  2. Oathbreakers Die
  3. Walk Any Road, Float Any River
  4. Courts Are For Kings
  5. Slavery is an Abomination
  6. You Have What You Hold



I would have your thoughts on this … 





Everyone would have at least this much knowledge.  http://pathfinder.wikia.com/wiki/River_Freedoms

This message was last edited by the player at 13:17, Fri 29 Dec 2017.

Andalon de Lebeda
 Player, 530 posts
 Cleric of Abadar
Sat 30 Dec 2017
at 16:24
Fuzzy:  The Midmarch Council
"Hanspur, god of rivers and river travel? His worship is banned in most civilised lands because one of his rituals requires his worshipers to drown someone in the river!

"Those so-called River Freedoms might suit the bandits and pirates of those lawless lands of the River Kingdoms but they are not compatible with the civilised lifestyle we want to encourage here in Midmarch.

"The first one, 'say what you will, I live free', would allow anyone to spread lies and to plot against anyone else, even against the authorities of Midmarch, without allowing those authorities to declare such things as criminal acts.

"The second one, 'oathbreakers die', is too harsh. Oathbreakers may deserve to be shunned or even punished appropriately, depending on the circumstances, but there may well be circumstances that justify renouncing a previous oath. The captured bandits we have pardoned would be one example of that.

"The third one, 'walk any road, float any river', is too open to abuse. Anyway, there would be an immediate problem with the land controlled by the Sootscale kobolds.

"The fourth one, 'courts are for kings', would also create a problem for us as we need to be able to enforce the laws of Midmarch to protect its people and what we are building here.

"The fifth one, 'slavery is an abomination', is the only one of those freedoms I have any sympathy for. But even then, what would we do if a merchant passed through our lands with a slave among his men? If that slavery was lawful where he came from would we consider ourselves justified to free that slave or deny the merchant passage through Midmarch? I don't like slavery any more than anyone else here does but I can foresee how signing up to that one of the River Freedoms could cause problems in future.

"The last one, 'you have what you hold', is an open invitation for any thief to walk in and steal anything they can get away with.

"No, we cannot agree to implement those so-called River Freedoms here. Instead we should take that request as a warning that we can expect trouble from the River Kingdoms in future and focus on defending against possible future attacks from that direction."

Pipre
 Player, 632 posts
 AC 18; HP 32/32; 6/9 Bmbs
Sat 30 Dec 2017
at 21:53
Fuzzy:  The Midmarch Council
"To be brief, I agree with Andalon on most points and come to the same agreement. I think especially considering the history of this land we're settling it would be best not to tempt the rise of new bandits and outlaws. As for the people..."
~ Brother Barthomew
 NPC e, 8 posts
 NPC - Henry's Chaplain
 Priest of Pharasma
Sat 30 Dec 2017
at 22:11
Fuzzy:  The Midmarch Council
Brother Bart makes a few notes as you speak.
Cass Mordane
 Player, 180 posts
Sat 30 Dec 2017
at 22:16
Fuzzy:  The Midmarch Council
Cass nodded to the others. "You have my agreement on all points. Perhaps we should take this as an opportunity to define the core belief system of the realm for those within our borders as well as those without.

Perhaps developing a motto that is succinct. Such as Midmarch, Freedom Tempered By Justice or Midmarch, Society of the Free and the Just.

Upgrading our defenses and putting into place plans of action against certain eventualities is also a task best executed sooner rather than later. There are those who would challenge us and they are apt to do it before our full force can be brought to bear.

This message was last edited by the player at 22:18, Sat 30 Dec 2017.

Pipre
 Player, 633 posts
 AC 18; HP 32/32; 6/9 Bmbs
Sat 30 Dec 2017
at 23:29
Fuzzy:  The Midmarch Council
after some skill check results..

"the people expect a certain amount of order and security that the River Freedoms don't exhibit."
Valoria Lebeda-Ondari
 Secondary, 289 posts
 Wizard
 Lady
Tue 2 Jan 2018
at 07:04
Fuzzy:  The Midmarch Council
Valoria considered the request for a moment and nodded to the others. “I am in agreement with my cousin and the others here. The only one of these freedoms I agree with is the fifth one, but that is already handled in the Charter of Midmarch.”
Viktoria d'Lodovka
 Player, 445 posts
Tue 2 Jan 2018
at 14:16
Fuzzy:  The Midmarch Council
"I agree with Brother Andalon, the River Freedoms have no place in establishing a territory. They are for the free areas of the world, and should be kept there. We are not seeking to be a haven to bandits and pirates, if they hold to their old codes."

Vik found herself in agreement with most everyone so far.
Andalon de Lebeda
 Player, 532 posts
 Cleric of Abadar
Tue 2 Jan 2018
at 15:45
Fuzzy:  The Midmarch Council
Andalon grinned at Cass.

"Perhaps we should put up a sign on our southern border saying 'You are now entering Midmarch - Welcome to Civilisation'," he suggested.
~ Brother Barthomew
 NPC e, 9 posts
 NPC - Henry's Chaplain
 Priest of Pharasma
Tue 2 Jan 2018
at 16:06
Fuzzy:  The Midmarch Council
"Liberatum, Justitum et Prospera" Bart mumbles as he copies something down.

This message was last edited by the player at 16:07, Tue 02 Jan 2018.

Cass Mordane
 Player, 181 posts
Tue 2 Jan 2018
at 23:09
Fuzzy:  The Midmarch Council
Cass smiled broadly at Andalon's suggestion. "I would pay to have it crafted by a master." After a brief thought, Cass added. "Maybe another sign closer in with the reminder, Actions Have Consequences." It would take a greater rhetoric to sway the minds of Midmarch than what those who lived more by chaos than order were able to put forth.


Cass was also glad to hear that the others voiced similar opinions on the matter and that Pipre's assessment of the nature of the people at large confirmed where the council was headed. "I would prefer that our rivers not become drowning pools for some barbaric religious practice. It is good that Lady Viktoria and her companions have already begun policing them. Perhaps we should make a copy of the Charter of Midmarch available to anyone who wishes it, but I am reticent to send any official response to this particular letter."

Brother Bart's words rang with a strong truth. "I understand the meaning, but how does that translate directly to the common tongue?"

"Are these thoughts close to your own, Henry?"

This message was last edited by the player at 03:12, Wed 03 Jan 2018.

~ Brother Barthomew
 NPC e, 10 posts
 NPC - Henry's Chaplain
 Priest of Pharasma
Wed 3 Jan 2018
at 08:19
Fuzzy:  The Midmarch Council
"Liberty, Justice and Prosperity."Bart replies with a shrug.



You'll have to excuse my Cod-Latin -  but (to me) this version  it 'sounds' better than the thr proper translation.