So will we have access to 3050 versions of those available mechs or are we starting with older mechs, so to speak, that will need to be modified accordingly?

Right... so i've determined an absolute cap of 20 players for this campaign.

i've also loosened the requirements on mech selection for player, though it should be observed that this is considered a Light Company, and the total weight of the company is going to be capped at 350 tons.  I've noted estimated weights for the three lances, as well as the archetype slots that will be open for each lance...

This is tentative at the moment and still evolving.

I'm going to make an effort to include conventional units this time around, the RR relied on them heavily since they were a minor state and more defensive minded.  Veteran players in my campaign no they dont suck, but they do have limitations, nuff said.

Air Cavalry ~ A decent weapon payload, with the option to replace them for energy strafing, or drop racks for bombing.  These is the campaigns Aerotechs.  Nimble on the field with a punch that cant be ignored.  Their only failing is their frailty. Air Cavalry players will control a 12 ton Warrior VTOL, and have a VTOL wingman.

Cavalry ~ For those of you that like to focus on weapons over speed, the Cavalry is the way to go.  Cavalry players will be Tankers in the classical sense and control a 30ish ton Tracked tank, and have (3) other NPC tracked tanks in their lance.

Infantry Commander ~ For those of you interested in Roleplaying things from the ground, and developing lots of NPCs, Infantry is worth a consideration.  Develop the skills they have, pick out the weapons they will specialize in, and take them out to the battlefield to face David and Goliath odds every time.  Your character will be the commanding officer in charge of an Infantry Platoon made up of (3) line squads and (1) support squad.

(1) character for each player, so figure out if you really want to give up mechs for conventional units.

3050 variants are available, though you will have to make availability rolls for them.  It might be easier to take a 3025 mech, and simply modifiy them into a 3050 mech.

Counting myself, we have 5 players already, which is 25% of the total population of the campaign, so were off to a good start without even opening the doors for play.

pre-registration has it's advantages in that you have the run of the shop at this time to pick out what archetypes youre interested in.

Cavalry and Infantry commanders will need a little extra work, since i have to dig up their archetypes and explain new rules, which mostly deal with initiative, and commanding their NPC lance.
This message was last edited by the GM at 15:39, Thu 03 Mar 2016.

I'm going to plan on shaking out the rules with the available player base, and then after that shakes out and i'm comfortable open the campaign up to general recruitment, which if the past is any hint, will be a zoo.

A little (*very* early) theorycrafting here, but is anyone else interested in running C3 on their mechs?  We're going to need all the advantages we can get when Kitten finally throws us under the bus... I mean in front of the Clans :)

Assuming I was going to stick with a mech pilot...I had considered the Panther PNT-C that had the slave unit.  Biggest problem is a mech that has the open space for a full C3 system...especially based on the limited mech options Kitten is working with right now.

If you want to experiment with C3, we'll be moving to effectively a (3) mech lances.

The Fourth unit would probably be a 20tn Pegaus Hover tank that avoids combat, which will need 5 tons of space for the C3 master, which wont leave much room for weapons, so you'll be going to, effectively a three mech lance.

The lance would be responsible for picking up the C3 slave units which are 250k CB each, weight one ton and take up one critical as well as the master unit which cost  1.5 million CB.

The cost to 'buy' into this lance would be about 750k cb.  Sorta steep, but the Tech Warrior has 3.5 million at start up, and would have 2.75 million after paying the cost for the C3 equipment, so it's certainly feasible.

If theres really an interest to put C3 in the campaign, i'll designate a lance for C3, and three player mechs that will have to pay 750k cb out of their starting cash to buy the C3 equipment for the lance to use.  This cost is an estimate, and i'm not heartless, if you want to take a Bugwarrior into the C3 lance which has 2.5 million i can bend the budget a little so that you have a little more than 1.75 million to purchase a mech.

So... do you want me to put this lance on the books?

---

Keep in mind that if your Pegasus cant join the fight for terrain issues, or if theres a Guardian on the map, that it's going to seriously hurt the fuction of the C3, if you accept the cost, and these limitations i'm good with forming the unit up.
This message was last edited by the GM at 18:46, Thu 03 Mar 2016.

A Techwarrior could also take a Valkyrie and yank the LRM10 for space and tonnage and then shift the HS in the same torso out to make space for a C3.  It would be more capable than the Pegasus to go into lots of different terrains if a bit light on weapons.

You could, but in my opinion youre asking a lot of someone to pilot a mech after handing over nearly 3/4 of a million Cbills, to have to give up 5 tons and 5 crits, youre essentially standing around for C3 master support.

I'm not going to put an NPC out with a C3 master, because then the temptation for players to use it for combat of some sort, even if it's just a punch, kick, or to find the range for another player would be too high.  A Pegasus tank with zero capability for combat has no such temptation, it also fits the pegasus' reputation for being an EW platform.

This is my fair fire solution, if players want to form up a lance, and can figure out among them who's going to be a useless field piece to house a C3 master, I'll wipe my hands and let you sort it out.  My prediction is, that no one will want to house the master and the C3 concept wont get off the ground.  My way is fair.  Everyone coughs up 750k cb, and makes space for a 1 ton / 1 crit slave unit.  Everyone that is using the C3 network, is paying in equally for it in cost, and modification space.

From past rulings, you should know by now that i'm big on making sure the status quo is kept and no one is handicapped or benched unfairly, if you're looking for C3 this is the fairest way to do it. (I have given thought to this for a while, since Mac's game to be honest... I wanted to stuff a master on my Raven's EW suite but Mac wouldnt let me.)

Gave it some thought, and the Cavalry lances will be made up of four tanks between 30 and 33 tons, one of them a Command Variant, this will give the Cavalry player an opportunity to pick out tracked tanks that they want to work with.

30 tons ~ Bulldog, LRM Carrier, SRM Carrier, Manticore, or Pike
33 tons ~ Axel MkI, Patton, or Rommel.

This notation is mostly for Teri who is going Cavalry, but is noted here for anyone else that might be considering it.
This message was last edited by the GM at 19:31, Thu 03 Mar 2016.

I'm sure we're clever enough to come up with solutions.  The only real point I would raise regarding C3 is that we need enough people onboard to make it worthwhile.  Once (if) we get that it's a matter of conniving ahead to take advantage of the tactical flexibility C3 offers.

I might be looking at a tech-warrior again.  I have an idea for a 2xPPC, 3xML, C3S Blackjack that could be quite interesting.  I would probably have to go lighter keeping Kitten's weight restrictions in mind.

I would be also eventually interested in seeing what you come up with, Kitten.

I'm going to play around with how to make it work and still be somewhat combat capable.

Valkyrie 3025 is cheap enough with techwarrior to not only pull the launcher and move things but buy the C3 Master Unit themselves.  It's the only mech that can do so with the 200k drop in funds a the start.

Kitten is right that it's much easier to use a Pegasus, but it's fragility since it has to be on the same board as the other units, combined with it's inability to move through woods to avoid units with ECM that could cut the connection of the C3 to the slave units makes it more difficult.

Stand corrected after a little math.

Just the Valkyrie, Buying a C3 and the install cost of it makes it too expensive for a starting character to foot.  Which doesn't even include the cost of pulling the LRM and moving the Heat Sinks around to open up crit space.

If we wanna do the C3 setup we'll either have to do it Kitten's way or pick up the C3 after the fact and sit on the slaves/have them installed but not usable till later.

An advantage of doing it your way, is that you have four players footing the bill instead of three.

1.5 million for the master and .75 million for three slave sis 2.25 million, split four ways it's 512,500 cbills for the hardware, of course, there is the small matter of the modification cost to put on top of this, but really it's only going to be bad for who ever installs the master unit.

1.5 million x .3 for a valkyrie is 450k cb to install the master unit, if were going to be kind on this, we can divy out some of this installation cost to their lance mates, but really, if you stick a master in a valk, do you really want to put the valk at risk?  Five crits is large, it's going to be sitting in a torso, if that torso gets torn off, which happens pretty often, this whole concept is shot.  Also, with five tons of dead weight in the mech, what exactly is the valk going to do for combat?  Trigger off three medium lasers is the best i can guess at, and really, do you want this valk getting that close to a clan mech with a 1.5 million dollar computer in its chest?

I'll stand on the concept that the NPC pegasus with a master unit works better.

If you split the cost of the stuff across everyone sure there is enough.

Sure it potentially is at risk of damage but so is the Pegasus cause it can't be nebulously off the board and as you pointed out even with it being a hover unit it has limitations...No woods, No steep assent/decent, No airless, No under water.

The Pegasus will be within engagement range of Clan mechs as much as a Valkyrie would be and is far more fragile.  Not saying it's the best unit to hold a C3 but out of the available options it is due to it's mobility.

(shrugs)

Even if you play it in a Valkyrie a 1/6 of the mechs GROSS weight, is going to be dedicated to this thing.  You dont have much of a mech to fight with, and given the cost of the Master unit, you shouldnt be fighting with it.

It's a boring job that i wouldn't ask anyone to roleplay.

If you're deadset against having it installed on a Pegasus, I'll provide an NPC Valkyrie for a platform, but the players are going to pay for the installation cost.

1.50 million for the Master
 .75 million for three slaves
 .45 million to install it in the NPC's valkryie

2.70 million split three ways is a cost of 900k cb from each of the C3 players, for the extra 150k cb, the Master platform would be upgraded from a Pegasus Hover tank to an NPC Valkyrie.


Your character would be part of the C3 lance, and handed a C3 slave, that he would have to still modify onto his mech some way.  A one ton /critical item is a spare heat sink or medium laser and should be a breeze to fit in.

that's about as good as it gets from what i can see for what you want and a cost solution to buy into it.

We dont have to fill out the lance 'now', we dont have a full unit yet and a new player might want to buy into it which is fine, if not, and NPC will slot to fill empty positions.
This message was last edited by the GM at 21:46, Thu 03 Mar 2016.

Well...

Considering the Valk's weapons would be linked into the C3 system it would be able to take advantage of the system too.  Take the shortest route from one of the linked mechs to the target, potentially ignore woods that would make the shot impossible, and fire at long range but only be short cause that is where the other mech is.

No more boring than a properly played Raven with Beagle/Guardian really?  Between X-Tech and Tinker you also get options for simulating Beagles and Guardians as well as weapon swapping.

I'm not saying she'll be a sweet machine, but she will be unique and still playable.  With a little more money and Endo you open up more weapons/armour.

I'm just expanding on the same pure techwarrior concept that came from a Raven pilot.

 I would not be adverse to running a tank unit either, though i lean towards the 33 ton units. I suspect that Lucius has plenty of good mech drivers but the ground pounder's could use a little close in units.

I was that Raven Pilot mind you, and the difference between a Valkyrie and a Raven is notable.  Aside from the obvious 5 ton difference, the Raven doesnt have Jump jets which gives it another 2.5 tons too work with.  The Raven's EW suite is a natural swap for the C3 Master, since the weight and criticals are so close it's not considered much of a modification, you still have space to work with to modifiy the mech to be combat ready.

Swapping the Valk's LRM for the C3 master, is pretty much going to be it's big mod.  Unless the pilot has tinker, they probably wont be able to even pull the extra heat sink for anything useful, so the most youre looking at is the ammo converting to another laser.  Even if you do convert the internals to Endo, what does it get you?  another 1.5 tons for... a medium and a small in the arms.  Mind you, to use these weapons you'd have to be at range 9 to fire them.

I still think it's a messy attempt, but if that's what you want to do, i wont hold you back.

Funny, that's two tankers now.

Cavalry is filling up faster than the mechs.  I wonder if that should tell me something.

o.O
This message was last edited by the GM at 22:23, Thu 03 Mar 2016.

Well David what do you think?

With Teri and Mikael likely going the route of the tanker crew, which is kinda cool all said and done, is it worth a PC dumping the stuff in or should we take up the Pegasus/NPC Valk in 4th position so that we have heavy combat capabilities and may have 1 ton of 'eh' should they not be around or it get destroyed?

That is the other reason why I suggest on a mech regardless...you destroy the IS of a vehicle and the whole thing is a flaming wreck and that 1.5 million c-bill C3 is completely destroyed.  At least in a mech with no ammo it's got more chances to survive and be pulled.

I still think the peg is more survivable.

Clanners will shoot mechs before tanks that are just parked there with no apparent weapons.

what honor is there in hammering an unarmed tank?

None, till their better sensors pick up the battle-link between the mechs and the peg and then destroy the peg with prejudice to deprive the honorless Spheroids of their deceptive practices. :P

Hey you want to pay extra money to have it on a mech instead of a Tank, i'm good with it.

(It would be too much overhead for me to participate in the Lance, so i'm taking a pass, i'm actually looking at being an cavalry or infantry commander this time around, though i'm waiting for players to sift out before deciding.)
This message was last edited by the GM at 01:33, Fri 04 Mar 2016.

Pros for mech-mounted:
more survivable
Tactically more versatile

pros for vehicle mounted:
cheaper
Clans typically ignore vehicles

I'm probably missing a few points but I can add those in later if I am.  Both have valid points but I'm leaning more towards a mech myself.

One further option to consider for mounting a C3M would be the panther -C.  Remove the standard C3S, the SRM-4, some heat sinks, upgrade remaining HS to DHS.  Remaining tonnage to distri

After recent events in the FRR there are likely to be a few panthers kicking around.