Hello all. Those that were in the previous game...sorry for having to leave abruptly and leave you without my sweet LAM. But IRL seems stable once again so I'm trying out the straight flyboy route this time.

no just a detail oversight on my part.  For some reason i thought it worked with all the units, not just the master.  My bad.

That said, i dont see why a slave cant make use of the master's ability to use TAG and have SOME function of TAG, so i figure the lighter version that goes out 3/6/9 doesnt seem too unfair... or maybe even 2/4/6?  longer than a small laser, but shorter than a medium?

what do you think Illiyana?  Your rule catch, and you dont have C3 at all so i'm curious on your thought since you're theoretically unbiased.

Just remember what you guys get, the bad guys sometimes get too.

wb Harley.

We didnt have that many LAM pilots so i do remember you.  nice to have you among us again.

Good to have you again Harley.

^_^ I love all versions of the Pheonix Hawk. LAMs are just icing on that cake. BUT this time I wanna step outta the comfort zone and put some bombs on targets. ^_^

Air Cavalry rules are in place to support that.

I've gone over them in fair detail with Rymin, so he'll be your guide on this, since i still have to get the missions going, and the infantry issues written up.

(at the moment i'm trying to get David the last mechwarrior that's expected to participate added.)

Argile, and Harley are just too far behind to add with their characters.

I can give you an unmodified VTOL warrior to pilot in one of the missions if you want to participate Harley, but it's too close to the eleventh hour to wait for a proper character submission, you good with that?

Let's see if I've got it right. Resolving Hawkeye/TAG attack would go like this:

Initiative Phase:
- Initiative resolved as normal
- Hawkeye attack declared (no roll)
- Hawkeye range determined by position from where they were fired (before attacker moves)

Move Phase:
- Moves resolved as normal

Fire Phase:
- TAG fired as per normal energy weapon (move, def mod, terrain and range mods apply)
- TAG hit allows Hawkeye roll to hit (caveat: target must be in range for LRM from where Hawkeye was initially fired)
- Hawkeye roll TN 5+ (roll for each target successfully TAG'd, only terrain mods apply)
- No roll for # missile hits is required
- If multiple targets are hit, missiles are split evenly between them
- Resolve missile damage as normal

Heat:
- No heat for TAG
- Hawkeye heat as per LRM

Questions :
- If Hawkeyes fire but no valid targets are TAG'd are they gone or available next round?

The C3 system is indeed a communication system intended to share targeting data, but it is specifically focused on it's own network.  The C3 Master system has the ability to function as a TAG in part because it can also broadcast outside it's own Slave network (typically up to a company level master system) and somewhere in it's 5 tons of space including the parts needed to do the 1 ton tag's job should not be to tricky even with the generally low quality of computer hardware after the succession wars.

The C3 slave could be used like a TAG but I  would limit it's range significantly the 2/4/6 seems about right, and restrict it such that only other units in it's own C3 network can benefit from the data.  This gives it a free function, and one that is not particularly limiting given the typical use of C3 networks for close in work, and stays within the bounds of the intended theme of the network.

Olaf, that all sounds correct, though I believe you still roll for number of missiles hitting.

And if no tag, they are lost. (don't continue to fly around for use later)

However you want to play it I'm down with it. I'm very patient. ^_^

Okay, going with Illiyana's thoughts, since they're close to mine and will limit the slave's C3 TAG functions to 2/4/6.  Its better than nothing, and really gravy on the normal c3 functions.

You have most of it Olaf, except the Hawkeyes resolve after all weapon fire.

This is because you need to know how many TAGs hit to divide their targeting.

Rymin is correct you do roll for number of missiles.

So... in the example above if 20 missiles hit one target you roll on the 20 missile table once, if two targets are hit by 10 missiles each, you roll on the 10 missile table twice.

If it's three targets, and one is hit by 8, and the other two are hit by 7, you roll on the 4 missile table twice for one target and the 5 missile and 2 missile table for the other.  After you know how many missiles hit, you do damage in five point groups.

so if you got 3 missiles on one table and 1 missile on another table, that's 4 missiles hit in one location.

Sounds complicated by in use not so bad, if you arent sure leave it to me and i'll resolve the hawkeyes.

I always essentially saw the five ton Master was in truth four slaves working together and a TAG unit.  Three of them communicate with the lance it's with, one is reserved to another Master unit.

That said limiting the TAG to internally, regardless of range, is rather useless for Arrow IV and considering the only other use is for Hawkeyes that an LRM launcher would already receive targeting data natively makes it redundant unless the person with Hawkeyes is a horrible gunner.  C3 networks being limited to the map board would mean off board support couldn't be used either, nor tying into infantry or conventional units that are being used here.

It's even worse of a function than Kittens desire to never see a flamer in game again ;)

no.  I presume somewhere in that ton of wires is a radio to reach other units, or to reach the master to relay info.  It'll work like a normal TAG, just limited to range 2/4/6

I do like simple... whenever possible.


As a footnote...

Hawkeyes are effective and work best when focused enmasse.

So it's a fair ploy to stop using Hawkeyes once you paint a desireable target so that all the missiles will target the one patsy.

We've seen light mechs vanish under the weight of a single flight of Hawkeyes because it was the only target painted.

Split 60 hawkeyes four ways and four targets take around 8 damage or so.  Have them all fall on one target, and that target takes around 36 damage or so.  The magnitude of hurt is obvious.
This message was last edited by the GM at 17:56, Mon 14 Mar 2016.

 Hmm again, The C3 master is just linked to the Mechs right?, my lrm carrier wont have that benefit?. Just checking to be sure.

Correct, your LRM carrier has no interaction with the C3, except with the possible function of throwing Hawkeyes up in the air for them to exploit the targets that are painted.

On the subject of simplification the current rules set includes a missile hit table that now comprehensively covers all possible number of missiles from any type of launcher and or after being reduced in any way by an Anti Missile System.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-TUyM...s/s1600/NewTable.png

The only time you should be rolling twice is if you hit with more than 20 missiles on a single attack/target with an MRM 30+ or entirely to many hawkeye missiles.
This message was last edited by the player at 18:09, Mon 14 Mar 2016.

Close to starting but talkative players and a school meeting i have to attend is going to kill my free time.

I may have to delay mission start.

My mission needs the Infantry stuff added in.

Tau's mission needs a map, and objectives added in.

Will add commander options tomorrow too.

Is that an official table or fan based one?

The specific digital picture in the link I provided is I think a fan reproduction rather than a scanned image out of the current books.

The data on the chart is far less accurate than I would have expected, and looking at the chart in the book again it seems that even MRM 40s wont need to reroll as the chart goes all the way up, I would recommend getting the new chart if you want one from an official source as they do seem to be different.

No worries.

I may just clump them in groups of 5, which would solve the issue, so it might be a 10, 5, 5 hit to make the rolls easy.

I thought the TAG capable C3 slave was a Kitten added rule tweak as well.  Here are my thoughts before we collectively climb out of the rabbit hole...

Playing it at a shorter range is fair, but limiting it to less capability than the 'light' system carried by an individual infantry soldier isn't intuitive.  Nor is adding a third range-set for TAG lasers.  To keep the tweaks consistent, why not make the light system and the C3 slave ranges the same (either 3/6/9 or 2/4/6)?

I was thinking that too, hence being on the fence between 3/6/9 and 2/4/8.

My justification is that it doesnt have 'TAG', as in a laser to point and spot, and by some magic of the C3 network, if they're close enough to the target, they can gather enough information on the target to feign TAG to get hawkeyes and copper heads to drop on it.  There is something to be said for making it 'light TAG', but it's also something to be said to go with as written rules, and give slaves nothing more than make them part of the network.

Personally, I'd make them just C3 no tag function on the slaves. It's suppose to be combined arms focused, tagging VTOLs/infantry would make a lot of sense, and moves to making units more dependent on each other.

Plus you already have a light tag option if you really want it on mechs to for not much weight, a whole 8af trade off.
This message was last edited by the player at 00:47, Tue 15 Mar 2016.

I actually had a novel concept to solve the TAG issue.

The C3 master has TAG, there is no ifs ands or buts on that.

I'm thinking the novelty is, letting the Raven Pilot, 'loan' the function out to a slave.

During the initiative phase they can 'pick' someone to handle the TAG functions, through the net work and that pilot can now use TAG, but doing so, denies the the C3 master from using TAG.

Since the new TAG is loaned out, and theirs some loss of efficiency, it gets with the shorter 3/6/9 range.


Does this sound reasonable and balanced to you peeps?

One movable tag sounds better than X free ones, even if it doesn't necessarily make sense hardware laser spotting wise.

It's not a big deal for me any which way though. Less freebies just make things more interesting from a combined arms aspect.

Like had anyone gone and said "Hey we want to field a ton of Hawkeyes, can we get some air tag support?" I'd probably have tried to work that in. Yet from what I can tell there hasn't been really any cross unit/lance communications or planning.
This message was last edited by the player at 01:39, Tue 15 Mar 2016.