Lothianism - Allegory for Christianity.   Posted by DungeonKeeper.Group: 0
DungeonKeeper
 GM, 143 posts
Sun 24 Apr 2016
at 16:06
Lothianism - Allegory for Christianity
Out of character discussion about the parallels of Lothianism and Christianity. Or just about religion in general, either in the Ptolus setting or in our own real world.

This message was lightly edited by the GM at 16:10, Sun 24 Apr 2016.

DungeonKeeper
 GM, 145 posts
Sun 24 Apr 2016
at 16:47
Lothianism - Allegory for Christianity
This is from the Ptolus Player's Guide:

"Lothian was a mortal who lived about fifteen hundred years ago. He ascended to godhood based on his own good works and strength of spirit. Lothian today is the lawful good god of justice and purity. His followers usually take one aspect or the other (justice or purity), focusing on either Lothianís lawful or his good qualities. In his lawful aspect, Lothian is the Lawgiver. In his good aspect, he is called the Daykeeper. In either case, he remains a staunch foe of cruelty and destruction and harbors a particular hatred of undead. He promotes peace, harmony, and safety. His symbol is an ankh crucifix."

Lothian is an allegory that Monte Cook put in the Ptolus setting. He represents a fantasy world deity that works like modern Christianity (Jesus Christ).

Monte Cook put him in this setting so that the setting could mirror the good and the bad things that Christianity has brought in the real world.

As a Christian, I understand that many, many people throughout history since Jesus was on this world have used his teachings for their own personal gains, goals, and ambitions. Many governments have used his teachings as a means to suppress and control their subjects. Many, many people have died over arguments of Christian theology, or wars between other incompatible belief systems. It's sad, but it was inevitable.

Jesus himself predicted this would happen.

Matthew 10:34-36 (NIV)

34 Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35 For I have come to turn

ď Ďa man against his father,
a daughter against her mother,
a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-lawó
36a manís enemies will be the members of his own household.íc

That last bit is Jesus quoting the scripture of his time, of the Prophet Micah's prophecy about what would happen to Israel as they continually turned away from God's ways again and again, predicting the fall of Israel.

So Jesus knew his presence on earth, his birth, death on the cross, and resurrection would be controversial to the point of bloodshed. He knew that there would be wars. Because he knows the nature of mankind, and he knows that few will give up their own nature to follow the nature of God.

So, right, Lothian is supposed to represent the dichotomy of modern Christianity. There are millions of people today who claim to be followers of Christ but have absolutely no clue what that means. They talk about rules, do's, do-not's. They quote the scriptures out of context. This is people like that horrible Westboro Baptist Church in Kansas that is always in the news for protesting things in a ridiculously non-Christ-like way being holier-than-thou mega-jerks. That's not Christian. There's nothing in the Bible to support that attitude and behavior. It sickens me. "Judge NOT, lest you also be judged." "Let him who has no sin be the one to cast the first stone" (against the prostitute some people like Westboro in Jesus' day wanted to stone to death). Many scriptures talking about how only God can condemn people, and that we're to love people regardless of their sin.

That is the Lawgiver followers of Lothian, they are the Westboro Church Lothians.

Then there's the Christians that give of their time, their money, their hearts, their souls, to help their fellow mankind. The ones that pray for people rather than judge them. The ones that believe it when Jesus said "Love" was the most important commandment of all. The ones that preach compassion, forgiveness, respect, fairness, tenderness, kindness, and love. These are the quiet Christians you don't see in the news because they're doing good works without taking credit for it, because it is just the RIGHT THING TO DO.

And these are represented with Lothian by the Daykeeper followers.

The history of the Lothian Church in the published material ends up being similar to that of Christianity's also. You have the Empire, with its state mandated Lothianism, which was like the Roman Catholic Church in its prime, with the enforced Crusades and Inquisitions. It's basically a way to tell a fantasy version of Christianity to bring attention to the dangers of organized religion combined with government.

That's my take on it. Any thoughts, anyone?
Vincent Blackfire
 player, 2 posts
 Cleric Of Sarenrae
 Fire/Sun
Sun 24 Apr 2016
at 17:08
Lothianism - Allegory for Christianity
my grandfather and father were the daykeeper type, always giving to those around them.

The dicodamy your showing, Its like the lawful vs good idea with paladins when is the law a bad thing... Wrong fully accused, or badlaws, evil lands, such as places where females are killed out of hand for transgressions.  Then do you ingnore the laws of the land.  But what's more important law or good?
DungeonKeeper
 GM, 146 posts
Sun 24 Apr 2016
at 17:30
Lothianism - Allegory for Christianity
Exactly, that's why the law of the land, the law of the nation, should not IMPOSE nor DENY anything about belief or morality. As for paladins they would enforce the laws of their deity, not the laws of wherever land they happened to live or be.
Murra Bosch
 player, 31 posts
Sun 24 Apr 2016
at 18:56
Lothianism - Allegory for Christianity
All fair and good as long as we are aware that not every player in this game is a Christian.
Vincent Blackfire
 player, 3 posts
 Cleric Of Sarenrae
 Fire/Sun
Sun 24 Apr 2016
at 19:00
Lothianism - Allegory for Christianity
Just to play my hand on the table... I am a pagan- with a combination Norse, Native American, and many others influencing my personal Belief system. I have studied many different systems and outlooks and found the path that best suits my spirit.
DungeonKeeper
 GM, 147 posts
Mon 25 Apr 2016
at 01:40
Re: Lothianism - Allegory for Christianity
Murra Bosch:
All fair and good as long as we are aware that not every player in this game is a Christian.


I'm aware of that. :)

This is not meant to be a Christian-themed RPG. Lothianism is an interesting bit of background to the setting, not the overall theme of it. I suppose that some DM's could use it in a way to try and "preach" but that's not how I intend to use it. If I wanted to run a Christian-themed game I'd be a lot more overt about it, and it wouldn't use some other deity to represent Jesus, it would just be a Christian game, without the Allegory.
Vincent Blackfire
 player, 4 posts
 Cleric Of Sarenrae
 Fire/Sun
Mon 25 Apr 2016
at 02:17
Re: Lothianism - Allegory for Christianity
I like the fact one can think abstractly about History and religion... you can always check out Arcanis its a really cool abstract world where each country is abstractly based off of a different era.. one mid-evil... one roman.. etc..
Sister Beatrix Ellespath
 player, 47 posts
 Theosophist of Lothian
Mon 25 Apr 2016
at 06:23
Re: Lothianism - Allegory for Christianity
I thought Lothianism was rather conspicuously Christian. Not one myself, but I am a fan of some of their music.

My intention is to play Beatrix as a Daykeeper - she wrote a dissertation on how Lothian used to be associated with healing magic, to the point where it was one of His Domains, but the influence of the Lawgiver faction caused the association to be lost over time. Beatrix's belief is that this "drift" away from healing and the care and beneficence towards others was to the faith's detriment.

I would like to point out, however, that Beatrix is far more likely to sing any benediction or prayer than recite it - she doesn't have Perform as a class skill for nothing, y'know.

*goes to look up liturgical music for soprano*

This message was last edited by the player at 08:17, Mon 25 Apr 2016.