Oh boy.  :-O

So... 'Probable Cause' search or is somebody going to ride like the wind and convince Judge Daramid to give us a search warrant over breakfast?

Yeah, but we may have just torpedoed our chance at legal evidence if the guy complains that a representative of the court tried to put a whammy on him...

I guess it might be the magical equivalent of an 'excessive force' allegation. Darcon or his lawyer might have to prove that he had reasonable grounds to try to force entry - and he might have a sympathetic argument that he was trying to avoid physical violence.

We haven't actually gained access yet, just attempted to, so there might still room for a search warrant before we go in.

Or we could take Darcon's casting as a sign that someone feels we have probable cause and barge in.  Through the back door, away from the scary dogs.

Using charm person is legally a lot like tackling someone and handcuffing them. Can you just run around tacking people? No, that's assault. Can you run around tackling people if you're a police officer? No, that's police brutality. Can you run around tackling people if you're a police officer and you have a warrant or probably cause to arrest them? Yes, that's doing your job.

You don't have a warrant, but you could be argued to have probably cause. You didn't see Vorkstag commit any crimes, the evidence against him is circumstantial, and all of the witnesses described someone not remotely like Vorkstag in appearance. On the other hand you did find the scalpel at the island and tracked it very thoroughly, and in a very well documented manner, to his lab. It all comes down to the opposed check, his lawyer vs you (or Barrister Kaple).

The real danger is: if you break in and find a bunch of incriminating evidence, and his lawyer wins the probable cause appeal, all of the evidence that you find gets suppressed and can't be used in the trial.

Another factor which may help Vorkstag's lawyer is the nature of charm person itself. Pretty much anything from the Enchantment (compulsion) school of magic is very tricky to deal with from a legal standpoint. Casting magic that manipulates the mind or subverts the will of an individual is treated like using roofies, it's why you need a court order to cast something like zone of truth or even atonement.

How long until the trial?  About an hour, hour and a half?  And how far would it be to Judge Daramid's home from here?

It's 7:00 now, you stopped for a brief meeting with Barrister Kaple and then came straight here from breakfast. It's about 15 minutes back to Lepidstadt proper by carriage and maybe fifteen minutes to the center of town where the courthouse and judge's home are.

You do recall Kaple saying that the three judges were convened and that the Morast deposition is at ten, so you would find Judge Daramid at the courthouse.

Who's headed where? Which of you plan to stay and watch, and which to pop back for the warrant?

Vadim would prefer to stay, since he hasn't exactly had time to make himself presentable for the Judge (and he knows he's unlikely to do the best job of it if he has to make the case for the warrant to the other judges).

If nothing else a quick confirmation and SCG will go alone for the warrant
And to find out what is the recourse if they still refuse

Amended my post to head back leaving the others to scout, observe and question

Constantine, I've broken you off into your own thread while you seek a warrant. Because it's a quick solo mission I'll probably post in that thread more frequently than the general game post rate.

No problem
My intent is to use the evidence already submitted and our good public defender to obtain the warrant

I found an alternative to the single level of justicar

I think it’s a DM option


Very interesting!!

Do tell!

There are boons that can be bestowed on clerics/paladins and such and from what I can tell it’s basically up to the DM

That's definitely cool.

Exalted, evangelist, and sentinels get different versions of those boons depending on which deity they worship, that set is the Abadar Exalted version. Taking a dip into Exalted is easier for a full caster than a paladin since you have to be able to cast 4th lvl divine spells, but you could just take the Deific Obedience feat. It unlocks the same boons at 12th, 16th, and 20th level, although that's quite a ways away too.

Though that single level in justicar is just about the same result..

But all of it is some time away..

What does the level of Justicar give?

Other than a D8 a bump to first two saves and 4+ skill points....

Aura of Law (Ex)

The power of a justiciar’s aura of law (see the detect law spell) is equal to her character level. If the justiciar has cleric or paladin levels, the power of her aura of law is equal to her character level +4.

Authority (Su)

A justiciar serves a religious or legal code and has absolute authority (granted by a higher-ranking agent of that code) to enforce it. This means that if the justiciar catches criminals, she may judge them guilty (given sufficient proof ) and order their execution, or do it herself if need be. Because the justiciar must act within the law, there is rarely any friction between her and established authorities other than disputes about jurisdiction and challenges from other forms of authority. (A religiously endorsed justiciar, for example, might come into conflict with secular governors who take exception to the execution of their subjects.) A justiciar may deputize others to aid her in her tasks, although she is responsible for their actions in her name.

As part of a Diplomacy and Intimidate check regarding matters of the law and her authority, a justiciar may exert her authority to grant herself a +4 bonus on these checks. This ability negates any need to carry a badge or writ of office, and is mainly used to convince those unfamiliar with the justiciar of her legal powers. For example, a justiciar can use this ability to check an angry mob intent on lynching a jailed prisoner, or convince a stubborn mayor that interfering with the justiciar’s efforts is likely to anger the lord they both work for. Even against individuals who don’t acknowledge his code of laws (such as thieves or warriors from other lands), the justicar’s fervor still grants these skill bonuses. She does not, however, gain these bonuses in situations where her code of laws would not apply or hold no bearing (like against monsters or savages). The GM ultimately adjudicates who the justiciar’s authority applies against.

In addition, a justiciar’s knowledge of her code is magically flawless, as if she were mentally reviewing a perfect copy of the code. If the source of the code changes (such as a decree from the church’s high priest or a new law created by a king), she instantly knows it. This perfect knowledge means she immediately recognizes any misquoting of the law (deliberate or accidental), and many justiciars consider it their duty to review the law book in remote settlements to make sure there are no errors in transcription or translation. A justiciar may always take 10 on Knowledge checks regarding the code, even when rushed or threatened.

Lawkeeper

Justiciars are not allowed to violate their code or any oath or contract they willingly agree to, nor can they go against the spirit of it while holding to the letter. A justiciar who willingly does so loses all prestige class abilities until she receives an atonement spell from her religious superiors or an official pardon from her secular superiors.
This message was last edited by the player at 20:30, Fri 21 Feb 2020.

That's pretty impressive.  Seems entirely appropriate for Sir Constantine, too.

Been the plan since level 1....probably still won’t happen until level 10...

As you wait out side the factory nothing attacks or hampers you right away.

Let me know how long you plan to wait there and we'll pass that much time (or jump in if something happens), and let me know what you plan to do next. Break in, reconvene with Constantine to check on the warrant, investigate elsewhere, etc.

Still hoping to get the warrant and back
Quick trip to see the university should not hurt anything..

Did someone say I’m too nice?

I might enjoy punching him in the face.

I am assuming a matter of honor and a fist fight (of the nonlethal variety) that both parties agree to is permissible under the law....
This message was last edited by the player at 23:55, Wed 26 Feb 2020.