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This message was deleted by the player at 17:59, Sun 14 May 2017.

This has always bugged me - is there an easy way to remember the difference between Guile and Intrigue?  I feel like I get it well enough, more or less, when I'm reading the descriptions in the book (for the umpteenth time), but it would be nice if I didn't have to keep going back to that every time I'm trying to do something in the realm of social manipulation and I need to figure out which is the right skill for that specific situation.

For me, the difference is what you know (Intrigue) and how you act (Guile).

Intrigue is about knowing both what is going on, and how to react to it accordingly ... diplomatically and strategically, and how to use that knowledge to manipulate what you want.

Guile is about your social ability to lie and connive and manipulate other people’s feelings at the moment.

Ah, that makes sense, and should be easier to keep in mind.  Thanks!

Would it be legal to have a magus with the Blind (Major, General) Flaw and Affinity with Intellego and/or Puissant Intellego who uses spells to overcome his Flaw?

I was thinking he would normally use Eyes of the Bat to move around comfortably. And then have an Intellego Animal spell that lets him see through the eyes of his Magical Animal Companion when he needs to read and other tasks that require actual vision.

What brings this up is the idea I had of a House Criamon magus who follows the Path of Strife and wanders as a blind man with a staff. He has the Unaging Virtue, but still seems to age, but suffers no penalty from it. His Magical Animal Companion, and later familiar, is a small intelligent snake with bright green and bronze scales.

So the Blind Flaw (ArM5, pg. 52) says this:



So its totally legal to use magic to aim yourself and Eyes of the Bat is an Aurum spell that lets you hear your surroundings so there shouldn't be a conflict there.

Extra time to create Tractus and Summa using Brail?

Braille wasnt developer until 1825.
Prior, he’d simply have had to find someone to read the text to him ... or peer through his snake’s eyes.

He could also invest the time into making an enchanted device like the Dico Calculus (MoH, pg. 31) which, oddly enough, was made for a blind Criamon.

Dico Calculus
This small stone was created for a blind
Criamon who needed an aid in reading.
When drawn over a page, the stone “sees”
the words on the page and transmits the images
into the user’s mind.

Impart the Words
CrMe 26
R: Touch, D: Conc, T: Ind
Pen +0, Unlimited/Day
Transmits the images sensed by the object
to the user’s mind.
(Base 3, +1 Touch, +1 Conc, +5 item
maintains concentration, +10 unlimited uses,
+3 linked trigger)

Read the Words
InIm 18
R: Touch, D: Con, T: Ind
Pen +0, Unlimited/Day
When activated, the object senses the
iconic species of whatever it’s touching.
(Base 1, +1 Touch, +1 Conc, +5 item
maintains concentration, +10 unlimited uses)
This message was last edited by the player at 08:11, Fri 16 Mar 2018.

So an enchanted bow that produces its own arrows would be CrHe(An)(Te) 15+X (Base 3, +1 Animal, +1 Terram, +2 Sun, +X uses/day)? Or is the fletching and arrowhead not a significant contribution making the spell CrHe 5+X?
This message was last edited by the player at 00:53, Sat 17 Mar 2018.

Hail of a Score of Arrows

CrHe 15
R: Voice, D: Momentary, T: Group
This spell conjures and launches a score of arrows at a target area. Individuals (single or clustered in a group) are easily struck by one to three arrows each doing +5 Damage, and there is little need for a Finesse roll.
(Base:2, R: Voice +2, D: Momentary, T: Group +2, Rego Requisite +1)


Found this in the Net Wizards Grimoire http://spellswiki.wikidot.com/

So Hail of Score of Arrows brings up a question I had about the Momentary Duration. How momentary is momentary I suppose. Does anything that takes less than a Diameter count as Momentary or is it not a hard and fast determination.

Momentary is up to a round or maybe a little more.

So the Muto Corpus guidelines say that you can give a persona a minor ability at Base 2. My question is two-fold: what classifies as a "minor ability" versus a major one and what would the base level be for something of that nature? Also, would you recommend using the Creo Corpus bonus to Recovery rolls as a good metric for Muto spells that give advantages to things like running, swimming, or some other physical task?

In reply to Pnvq12 (msg # 16):

I think it's up for debate if there is a higher level or not. At some point you're doing enough of a change, the books seem to indicate that you use MuCo(An) for the type of animal transformation with T: Part. I say that based on Gift of the Minotaur (MoH p.85). For examples of minor abilities, take a look at these:

• Eyes of the Hawk (HP p.87)
• Track by Scent (MoH p.131)
• Bushy Tail of the Branch-Dancer (MoH p.85)
• Eyes of the Cat (ArM5 p.131)
• Slime of the Muck-Dweller (MoH p.85)
• Slipperyness of the Eel (SemE p.35)
• Stickyness of the Lizard's Toesl (SemE p.35)
• Sure-Footedness of the Crag-Leaper (MoH p.85)
• Webbed Toes of the Pond-Dweller (MoH p.85)
• Spirit of the Bull of Minos (MoH p.84)

This message was last edited by the GM at 21:53, Wed 28 Mar 2018.

SemE?

Semita Errabunda. It's a free pdf/html document with a sample covenant and sample starting magi. Atlas's download link of the pdf is http://www.atlas-games.com/pdf_storage/Semita.pdf

I posted this question earlier in a game and received two conflicting responses so I'd like to discuss it more thoroughly here rather than bog down the game. The question is about enchanted items: Can you turn a living animal into an enchanted item (charged, lesser, or invested)?

The core of the argument is that:

- ArM5 has no expressed rule against doing this that I could find.
- In MoH (pg.40-44) we have Gwidion ex Verditius enchanting plants and even going so far as having a living tree as a talisman.
- The aforementioned enchantments did not require any Original Research (HoH:TL pg. 26-30) to accomplish.
- Hermetic magic already allows for the temporary modification/enhancement of animals through the Animal Technique.
- There is no Hermetic Limit that would prevent this (from my own interpretation).

There are also some assumptions to be made, all of which may not be necessary:

- The laboratory where these enchantments will take place is outfitted appropriately.
- At least one assistant is available to ensure that the magi need not interrupt his work to keep the animal alive.
- The animal is trained and loyal to the magi.
- The animal can be restrained easily or put to sleep.

In reply to Pnvq12 (msg # 20):

As your SG, I would allow it, but when the animal starts getting magical echantmentd on it its eventually going to get warping, and become a magical animal with might. That's how I'd do it. But I would love to hear more options.
This message was last edited by the player at 01:58, Sat 07 Apr 2018.

I had assumed the Warping, although I would say that they don't get Might Scores like Transformed Animals (RoP:M pg. 78)

I would consider that granting powers to animals and similar is sometimes something a Virtue lets you do. So allowing such enchantment of a non-item may well cut into at least one Virtue lets you do.

So running with that line of logic it would be a Major Breakthrough creating a Hermetic Virtue, let's call it Animal Enchantment? With this virtue would the resulting animals be considered Magical and receive a Might Score or would it effectively be the same as any other enchantment.

I would look at Awakening (HoH:MC p.104) and the Hrools (BCoC). The Hrools are probably a better place to start as they are based off of a discovery.

So I went and looked into them and Awakening is a pretty awesome thing that I will have to consider if I ever make another Animal magi but its beyond the scope of what I'm attempting to do. Awakening allows the magi to instill a Magical animal, which already possesses a Might score, with additional effects. I want to instill a mundane creature with a magical effect, not necessarily give it the discretion in which to use it of their own free will.

It is essentially just removing one step because instead of creating say a collar that grants the effects to that animal, the enchantments are done directly to them.

I just meant to look at them to see how they function for mechanics for whatever you do. I would note that Awakening allows you do to this with a non-magical animal, as you can give it Might in the first place. As I mentioned, Hrools are probably better to look at (p. 92 of BCoC). As for not having a power under the animal's control, it's probably a constant power, so you could use those methods and make it constant instead of activated at will.

Spell Mastery Questions:

Given:
Fast Casting - The maga may Fast Cast the mastered spell according to the rules for Fast Casting Spontaneous spells, on page 83. The maga still takes the –10 penalty to Casting Score and risks the extra botch dice, although the botch dice will be partially offset by her Mastery Ability. (ArM5)



Question 1: If the magi has the Deft Form, Quiet Magic, and/or Subtle Magic Virtues, can they use the Fast Casting mastery ability and still use these Virtues to cast without words or gestures?

Question 2: The the magi also has the Quiet Casting and/or Still Casting mastery abilities in addition to the Fast Casting mastery ability, can they use those mastery abilities to Fast Cast the spell without words or gestures?

Given:
Magic Resistance - Your Magic Resistance is doubled against the mastered spell, and against any spells or powers that count as similar. (See “Similar Spells”, page 101.) (ArM5)

Question: If I have the Magic Resistance mastery ability for Pilum of Fire, that would double my Magic Resistance against Ball of Abysmal Flame as well, correct? What about vs Arc of Fiery Ribbons?

So for those who have played Necromancers in the past I have a few questions.

1. Do undead created through magic have Penetration? Is it determined by the casting total of the spell used to animate them? Also if multiple spells are responsible for their existence which one applies, if any.

2. Can undead be improved (skills primarily since you can always bump attributes) or is that beyond Hermetic magic?

3. Can a spirit familiar be enchanted to possess a mindless undead and how does this affect spells cast on the familiar? Does it affect the possessing body as well?

Yes, they have to penetrate. But a mundane sword swung by an animated corpse does not need to penetrate.


It depends. Magic beings like revenants and ghosts can improve like other magical beings, which means rarely but it is possible. Faeries may have an undead role, and then they can potentially improve like other faeries. But just an animated corpse generally does not improve. However, there are two options for Brawl for animated dead: set it at 3 or set it at the caster's Finesse. If you use the latter of those, you could stop the animation spell and then animate the corpse anew after your Finesse increases.


I highly suggest looking at The Living Corpse in Hermetic Projects. That will show you how you can do the possession and how the spirit and the body become treated as one much of the time.

Sorry I missed this a while ago.


Given that the rules acknowledge that you could theoretically cast your spell without words or gestures and say you can't choose to do that, I would not let characters just avoid words/gestures in those cases. I might well still allow a mute character to make his/her usual noises at the usual penalties since it's enough of a burden already; but I haven't had to make that call yet and I'm not positive.

</quote>
Given that Pilum of Fire and Ball of Abysmal Flame are essentially identical except for the "cosmetic effect" and the different name, they're more properly classified as different levels of the same general spell. They're even closer than just similar. So Magic Resistance would certainly apply. As for Arc of Fiery Ribbons, I would rule the effect the same since they both create damaging fire and the different levels of damaging fire could just be written as a single guideline, so it's the same use of the same guideline, just with T: Group. So I would consider them similar spells.

Would it be legal to have a Failed Apprentice with Heartbeast? I'm thinking he underwent the Ritual of Twelve Years early in his apprenticeship and then a few years later something happened and his Gift was lost.

House Bjornaer would probably accept the character as a full magus. He did complete their Gauntlet. The rest of the Order wouldn't.

Would such a character then be able to initiate into the Mysteries of the Inner Heartbeast?

Part of justification for this character concept is:

This message was last edited by the player at 05:49, Fri 25 Jan 2019.

I personally wouldn't permit a character with 'Failed Apprenticeship' to also be considered by his House to have passed his Apprenticeship.

If the House tells the Order that this Magi has passed his Gauntlet, then he will be accepted by the Order as a full member.

Maybe 'Dark Secret' would be more appropriate ... "You are haunted by something that would lead to shame, rejection, and possibly revenge if discovered. Hints about the secret continually arise, and there might be others who know it and could betray you. This makes you avoid certain places, dislike certain people, or fear certain things".

After all, if the Order ever learned that the House had deceived the Order like that, even just once ("... but how many times have they lied about this?  How many more of them are such?") the repucusions upon the House itself, let alone the character, would be an epic storyline.

The character could then take a combination of Flaws that limit his casting ability (both Spont and Formulaic) to represent the damaged Gift.

I'd allow it. What's the harm? Sounds like an interesting story.



While it's certainly possible to run a storyline where this happens, I prefer to imagine an Order stable enough so as not to be brought down by a single lie about a single person. Even a single suspicion of vote manipulation is not big enough. This is tribunal level drama at best.
-------------
However, I think a more reasonable course of action in this situation would be to negotiate for such Bjornaer to be accepted as a Redcap. That neatly ties all the political problems. The issue of keeping the secrets of the Heartbeast is a separate one and can be solved in multiple ways:

1. House Bjornaer may not care about others learning its outer mystery, or campaign to have all full mages with its knowledge to be considered Bjornaer.
2. The apprentice can be hit with Perdo Mentem to wipe clean al Bjornaer Lore they'd need to initiate someone. Possibly even team up with Merinita, a Chthonic Magus or an Adjurer to make a complex Bargain or Forsaken spell ensuring this.
3. They may simply trust you to uphold the vow you made when joining the mystery cult.
-------------
A big problem with an unGifted Bjornaer passing for a magus would be Parma Magica. All magi have magic resistance. The Bjornaer would either constantly hang out with a friend protecting them, or have their cover blown the second some Flambeau throws zero penetration CrIg "Hermetic Hello" at you at the tribunal and you start screaming in pain.
This message was last edited by the player at 17:14, Fri 25 Jan 2019.

With these Arts, is there a spell that can be cast on someone to let them understand all languages?
Is there a way to do it Spontaneously, Heck is there a spell somewhere that allows for the understanding of languages, besides THOUGHTS WITHIN BABBLE, is there a way to change the below spell around to let a Magus cast it on a Companion so they can understand people in the target area? Suggestions needed!

Arts: Cr 20, In 10, Mu 10, Pe 7, Re 14, An 5, Aq 5, Au 5, Co 26, He 5, Ig 5, Im 8, Me 9, Te 5, Vi 13

---

Spoiler text: (Highlight or hover over the text to view)
THOUGHTS WITHIN BABBLE
R: Per, D: Conc, T: Hearing
You can understand the speech of those
within the target area. Perception or
Communication stress rolls are needed for difficult
exchanges. You also understand people
who misuse a language that you do speak; you
know what they meant to say, as well as hearing
what they actually said.
(Base 5, +1 Conc, +3 Hearing)

---

So I'm sure someone will come by with a more definitive answer but the spell doesn't seem to violate any of the Limits so the desired effect should be possible, although I'm not sure about spontaneous casting or even if a single spell would do the trick.

My thinking is that it's going to need Intellego to gather information about what is actually being spoken, Mentem to affect the mind, and maybe Muto to alter the magus/Companion's mind to speak the language once they comprehend what was said.

Intellego Mentem has a Level 5 guideline to "Understand the meaning behind spoken sounds" which gives comprehension but not the ability to respond. The Level 25 guideline to "learn all the information you wish from a person's mind" might be more appropriate for complete language comprehension.

Muto Mentem has a Level 4 guideline to "make major changes to a person's memory of a period of their life." Perhaps the spell rewrites the portion of the memory pertaining to the magus' Native Language learning. The affected would essentially change their native language to whatever the new language is for the duration of the spell.

In the end you have a Level 50 In(Mu)Me spell (Base 25, +1 Conc, +3 Hearing, +1 Muto requisite) if you want it to be equivalent to Thoughts Within Babble. Anyone you hear (or perhaps change that to +1 Eye for line of sight) has the memories related to learning the language extracted and implanted temporarily in the magus' mind.
This message was last edited by the player at 02:44, Wed 06 Feb 2019.

Hmm, dang.. Language barriers are getting my game distracted. I have a companion that wants to go and talk to a Magi, but Magi only speaks Hebrew, Italian, and Latin. The Companion is a native to the area that only speaks Welsh. Damn language barriers!

Yeah they can be complex.

If the game region is anything like real medieval Wales, there should be a fair number of clerics and scholars around who are bilingual in Latin and Welsh. Perhaps one could be found to be an interpreter. Any local parish priest should have some Latin skills, though the serious scholars would be more fluent.

Yeah, a translator is the simple route, but takes away from the one on one aspect the player is looking at having with the NPC. But I will figure it out.

In reply to Thruxus (msg # 40):

I grant that if the discussion is on magical topics, your player might be more comfortable not having to explain his interest to the magus through a cleric.

Or try the level 15 guideline in the core book instead of workarounds with the level 5 guideline. But, yes, you can give another person that sense using MuMe, as explained briefly on page 114.

My covenant has two omni-lingual companions. It is really nice.

I think this is the better place to have us guide someone through character creation.

When I started out I used the templates. They produce decent magi in my opinion. Not optimized but decent.

But also not really useful for learning the process.

Fair enough. Any advice for our intrepid learner then?

Figured they would get around to posting something eventually.

Hard to give advice with no baseline. Like "go read character creation in the book." Then it's down to reading comprehension.