GreyGriffin:
When a DM asks you what you want, it's a really complicated question. What do you actually want? I think nobody really actually wants to find exactly what they tell the DM. An element of unpredictability is part of the thrill of unearthing ancient treasures, and finding the exact thing you wrote on a wishlist takes some of the excitement away.
I'm one who wants to find exactly what I tell the GM. Why would I tell him to give me something I didn't want to find?
But, I also give the GM several items at each level. Out of a given set of parcels, I don't know which items might be for me, and I don't know which of the items I listed might be the one the GM gives me. I don't know if I'll be getting a generic magic weapon, or a suit of armor, or an amulet, or a wondrous item, or maybe nothing this level but enough gold to get something else I want. That's plenty surprising, but I'm also generally bought in enough to get excited even if there's no surprise at all.
You're describing something I'm not sure I've ever really seen, and which therefore seems like an unattainable ideal to me: players actually curious about what they might find, and fascinated by what they do find. I may have seen this in a few very beginner players, but with players who get the game aspect of the game, the reaction tends to be cool, at best. They know that the GM is going to keep them where he can work with them, or that anything they have that really is cool is going to have to be destroyed to succeed in the quest, or something.
GreyGriffin:
Furthermore, you have to weigh what the DM is actually willing to give you. If you want a +5 Holy Avenger, and you ask for a +5 Holy Avenger, are you miffed if you get a +3 Holy Avenger? Add on top of that the psychology of the Overton Window. Would you have gotten a +5 Holy Avenger if you had asked for a +7 Holy Avenger?
It would never have occurred to me that this was a real issue with the 4th Edition approach. First of all, if you have a question like this, ask the GM.
Second of all, as GM, I ask for a list of items of level+1 to level+5, and I'm literally willing to give them any item they ask for that fits that criterion (plus things like allowed sources). I could have sworn this was exactly what the DMG advises, but if not, I'm not sure why anyone would handle it differently.
GreyGriffin:
This is somewhat mitigated by treasure hunting quests, where PCs actively seek out an item, following information about it. The impact of these quests, however, is diminished in 4e specifically, where the gear churn is real, and each item in the player's repertoire has less narrative weight. That lack of narrative heft can make it difficult to get your friends to help you quest for a Sword +4, when you should be getting a Sword +5 in 2-4 levels, great-grandfather's lost legacy or not.
This is another thing I've never understood.
I thought one of the DMGs advised it, or maybe it just seemed obvious to me, but magic items tend to come in multiple versions, spaced about 5 levels apart. To me, the says that if someone has an item they like, then they can keep that item and, at an appropriate time, it "breaks through" to the next higher version of that item. Technically, this robs them of the money or residuum they'd get for cashing in the old weapon, but just tack that on to some other parcel, or something.
The only thing that might get tricky with is armor, since the goofy masterwork system heavily implies that one must actually get a new suit made with new materials. I suspect a creative group could handwave that.
So, in terms of a character's main items (and even a few of the non-main ones), they can stick with the "orginal" their entire careers. I'm not seeing a real downside to that.
GreyGriffin:
Separate from that, ask them what they want. Couch this in narrative terms. It's not important if they want a +3 Longbow of DoingWhatever. Do they want a bow that makes trees shoot out of people? Do they want a sword that fell from the heavens during a battle between gods? Do they want to just, for the love of god, never have to make a climbing check again?
The first two seem to be asking "What would you like to be cool about your weapon." In a recent game, my tiefling who wants to restore the glory of Bael Turath, but this time in partnership with the dragonborn, asked for a dragonborn-related weapon. It's actually a pretty "boring" weapon with a hard-to-use power - but I picked that power, because a) I like a challenge and b) it seemed more along the lines of what I was after.
GreyGriffin:
While you can only really ask Dwarves to pound new ore into the Master Sword so many times before it gets tiresome, you really do have to find a way to make it work, or they will just pitch those items in the Residuum chipper with a jaunty salute, and then their grandfather's magic sword is tomorrow's Teleportation Circle.
They'll find a way to help make it work, if that sword really meant that much to them or their character in the first place. Or they can lose that item in a really awesome way, sadly vow to carry on their quest with the new sword they pull from the hoard, and the GM can slide them some extra gold or residuum.
Edit: I say I don't understand these ways of thinking or those interpretations of the intended process, but I'd be willing to. I'd be interested to know how they arose, and how my own arose.
This message was last edited by the GM at 22:41, Sun 28 May 2017.