evileeyore
 member, 281 posts
 GURPS GM and Player
Thu 23 Jan 2020
at 03:37
Re: Portrait Submissions - On Hold Until Further Notice
SunRuanEr:
The more backlog we create without it actually being uploaded, the more difficult actually getting it uploaded is going to be. There's a jam-up in the system, and it needs to be cleared before we keep piling more things on top of it.

Hence my suggestion:  Stop making submissions until the backlog gets cleared.
ladysharlyne
 subscriber, 2515 posts
 In Games you get out what
 effort you put into it!
Thu 23 Jan 2020
at 17:38
Re: Portrait Submissions - On Hold Until Further Notice
I do agree with EEyore in that stopping submissions again until all the backlog is caught up and I do mean ALL.  NO matter who is doing the final inserting of pics it is all going to snowball effect on them and no hope in sight.  Those in charge of the gallery are working the best they can and remember, they all have real lives too that come first.  So there needs to be a stop point so that they can catch up and feel they have accomplished something.  Once it is all done then start the submitting pics again when we are given the go ahead but with it starting a 'clean slate' fresh beginning for the gallery team who work as best they can. Adding more and more gallery members to the pot would just make things worse in my opinion.  Everyone, almost, wants to help, but lets give those working the time to work that it takes them.  There are plenty of pics to use until the one you submitted shows up.  I pick ones out and every few weeks check through the gallery to see if one I sent or someone else sent has been uploaded for a particular character.  The pic does not make any difference either way when you are writing a post it is just nice to have a lookalike character.


Bottom line:  Let the Gallery Team do their job in their own time without 'pushing' them to get things done.  Its a big job and they know what they are doing so perhaps STOP sending in pics until this is finally TOTALLY caught up then everyone starts 'FRESH' and new after checking time and again for their pic they sent to be added.  Let's be glad we have a team working hard at helping all of us.

Just my two cents and not that of any of the Admin or Moderators

Morgan Coldsoul
 member, 292 posts
 29+ years RP experience
 I'll forget again later
Thu 23 Jan 2020
at 18:06
Re: Portrait Submissions - On Hold Until Further Notice
The Oct-Nov '19, Nov-Dec '19, and Dec '19-Jan '20 submission batches have all been vetted for uploading and are sitting in the folder. That's all I can tell you.

As I said further up the thread, when I announce that an upload should be expected, it's because I've been told to expect one, or I wouldn't make such an announcement. If and when an upload subsequently doesn't happen, I have no control over that part of the process and am just as surprised as anyone else. Rest assured that, given I've also got submitted portraits awaiting upload, that I understand your frustration.

If you want to hold off on submitting additional portraits, you can; if you want to continue submitting, then as far as I'm concerned, that's also fine. My part of the job hasn't proven to be burdensome and I don't mind continuing to accept and prepare any portraits we receive. Since I don't do the final step of uploading, I don't know how difficult it may or may not be and won't put words in Warrax's mouth.

Whether or not the situation will change, how, or when, I'm not in a position to tell you or to make any promises. vOv If something does change, I'll try to communicate that when it happens, assuming I am in a position to do so at that time. Otherwise, there's nothing for me to do but to say "I've been told an upload is happening" unless you also want me to say "oops, looks like it didn't happen" after 5 days or a week, at which point I'm sure most interested parties will have noticed for themselves, anyway. That's the best I can offer, because when an upload isn't made on time, I find out the same way you do: By checking the gallery for new additions and not finding them.

In the meantime, as ladysharlyne basically said, I'll ask that you please continue to bear with us while we try and improve things. Again, I get where any irritation is coming from and I feel it, too; I wish there was more I could do, at the moment. For those of you genuinely offering well-meaning suggestions and potential solutions, your helpful spirit is appreciated.
SunRuanEr
 subscriber, 191 posts
Thu 23 Jan 2020
at 18:25
Re: Portrait Submissions - On Hold Until Further Notice
I don't think anyone here is 'pushing' them to get things done, ladysharlyne. They are legit coming in here and giving the impression that updates are happening, either by Morgan saying things like 'it doesn't look like he's got the December batch done yet, so feel free to send one in for January', or by Warrax stating 'yes, there will be an update'. Updates aren't happening. Please stop giving the impression that updates are happening until/unless updates actually start happening. (Morgan, I understand you are only relaying what you've been told by Warrax, but I think at this point we can all agree that you've been told erroneous information.)

YES, I realize that we should stop sending in submissions until the backlog gets cleared. (I don't actually know anyone who HAS sent one in, since the October 'submissions are open again' that didn't have any of the new submissions uploaded, myself, so YES, we're taking that advice.) But by the exact same token, they should stop ACCEPTING submissions until the backlog gets cleared. Having one half of the team continuing to do things while the other half is doing nothing is what is creating the massive logjam... and while I certainly can't speak for Warrax, if he couldn't find time to upload the three leftover pics that he said he was going to upload back at the end of October, it stands to reason that he almost certainly can't find the time to upload the <however many but probably a lot> of pics that have been sent in since then. The more daunting a task is, the less likely anyone is to WANT to do it, much less find the time to.

As for this:
quote:
There are plenty of pics to use until the one you submitted shows up.

If there were suitable pics in the gallery, people wouldn't send in portraits. I like to think that everyone that plays knows that the portrait team works out of the goodness of their heart, and tries their best to not create more work for them just for the sake of creating more work. I realize, in practice, that some people ARE too lazy to check every portrait in the existing gallery before submitting one, but I also know that most of the players I know DO check literally every portrait to see if there's something suitable before they decide to submit another... especially with the current state of submissions. Sometimes, there simply ISN'T a suitable portrait to use that conveys the look/attitude/type of creature that is needed... and that is precisely why portraits get sent in.

And this:
quote:
Let's be glad we have a team working hard at helping all of us.

I am SUPER GLAD that we have a portraits team, but only half of it is actually working hard to help us. Let's not delude ourselves into thinking otherwise. I completely and totally understand that real life happens, and that RPoL is not a job, so there is no judgment in that statement - it's simply the truth. If the other half of the team is no longer able to do what they've come in here and said time and again that they are going to do, perhaps it's time to consider giving someone else the responsibility. Again, that's absolutely no judgment on Warrax at all. Stuff happens. People lose free time, or lose motivation, or whatever all the time... but be honest and say 'I don't have time/the fruits to give to do this anymore' instead of continually telling people you're going to do it and then leaving them hanging when it doesn't get done.

...and let's be clear, here. No one is being all 'Man, you said it would be done by Friday and it didn't get done until Monday!' here. It's been MONTHS. If a quarter of a year isn't a reasonable time to wait, I don't know what is.

@MorganColdsoul - Man, I totally know that you're doing your job, and you're frustrated by this too, and I'm sorry that it's the situation that you're in. I want to reiterate that  I am 100% willing to take over the job of uploading images if Warrax is unable to do it, but I don't think that having two people on the team handling updates is a good idea because of the potential confusion.  I work from home. I have free time. If you need a body to replace Warrax so that uploads get done, I'm volunteering. (Assuming it is something that my system is capable of handling, and I have no reason to think that it isn't, but I'm not 100% certain what requirements are necessary because knowing what the portrait team does feels like a secret recipe...)
Xenoviel
 subscriber, 26 posts
Thu 23 Jan 2020
at 18:29
Re: Portrait Submissions - On Hold Until Further Notice
I absolutely appreciate that life will rear its ugly head on the regular and step in to deny people the time they need to get things done. It happens to me and happens to all of us from time to time. I'm not here to pile on.

However, I feel the need to point out a stumbling block in the system: If this is being done entirely by volunteers (which is my understanding of the present status quo), and if we cannot hold any given volunteer accountable because they are a volunteer, we are left with a situation where a single person's entirely-valid real life circumstances can stop up the process entirely.

My suggestion is this: Allow an additional volunteer on the uploading end of things. Basically if whoever is in position to handle the initial monthly upload can't for whatever reason, the second person would take over after, say, two weeks without the upload happening. The second person then clears it out. This would work both ways, if both people weren't able to get the upload done in a given month, but the first one was good for the following month, there wouldn't really be a backlog.

All folks really need is some communication to set expectations, and for the system/process to work itself out before too much time passes. If we can get some extra communication and a little backup so that no single person winds up shouldering too much burden, I think things will work themselves out quickly enough.

---
If anyone wants a more specific suggestion for how to 'split' up portrait work. Give one person the 1st through the 14th of the month and the other person the 15th through the 28th. Both get exactly two weeks with no overlap and no one does any portrait work outside of their window. That prevents uploads from happening twice.
Morgan Coldsoul
 member, 293 posts
 29+ years RP experience
 I'll forget again later
Thu 23 Jan 2020
at 18:38
Re: Portrait Submissions - On Hold Until Further Notice
Any offers of assistance are appreciated, though I'm not the one to whom you should address them, unfortunately. I'm perfectly willing to accept aid from another volunteer, and something like what Xenoviel suggests might be a workable system for the reasons listed.

If you want to help out with portraits, rMail the mods or jase and let them know! I haven't seen the particulars of the uploading process, but I believe it just involves running a simple script.
ladysharlyne
 subscriber, 2516 posts
 In Games you get out what
 effort you put into it!
Thu 23 Jan 2020
at 19:42
Re: Portrait Submissions - On Hold Until Further Notice
Xen is offering a good suggestion.  Split the submissions in two groups to help get the backlog caught up once and for all.  Thanks for giving an example.

Also I meant that there were pics to use until the proper one someone submits is actually uploaded.

Does anyone have any contact with Warrax to see what is happening with them?  Knowing what completely is going on would be a help to everyone wouldn't it?  Again I agree with Xen there should be a second, at the least, doing the final uploads.
Warrax
 subscriber, 235 posts
Mon 27 Jan 2020
at 16:13
Re: Portrait Submissions - On Hold Until Further Notice
Brief update from my phone but an update had actually been done. I'm troubleshooting why it has not appeared in the galleries.
evileeyore
 member, 282 posts
 GURPS GM and Player
Mon 27 Jan 2020
at 22:24
Re: Portrait Submissions - On Hold Until Further Notice
Warrax:
Brief update from my phone but an update had actually been done. I'm troubleshooting why it has not appeared in the galleries.

/thumbsup.gif
Morgan Coldsoul
 member, 294 posts
 29+ years RP experience
 I'll forget again later
Tue 28 Jan 2020
at 15:52
Re: Portrait Submissions - On Hold Until Further Notice
The upload issue seems to have been dealt with. I'm currently out and can't compare every single gallery against the submissions in the folder, but the galleries I know for sure should be updated appear to have been. Those last few that were meant to make it into the original October backlog upload are definitely there for me, when I look, and I'm seeing lots of others in male/modern/rugged and female/modern/gangster, etc., that are recent submissions.

I'll double-check to make absolutely sure they all got in, later today, but at a glance that should take care of the Oct-Nov '19, Nov-Dec '19, and Dec '19-Jan '20 submission batches. Hopefully this means there will be no delays or problems with the Jan-Feb cycle, but we'll keep you posted and try to get out a Shannara-esque announcement for you of how many new portraits were added to each gallery.
SunRuanEr
 subscriber, 193 posts
Tue 28 Jan 2020
at 16:10
Re: Portrait Submissions - On Hold Until Further Notice
Morgan Coldsoul:
Those last few that were meant to make it into the original October backlog upload are definitely there for me, when I look, and I'm seeing lots of others in male/modern/rugged and female/modern/gangster, etc., that are recent submissions.

Just to clarify for anyone else looking for portraits, the new portraits for (edit: modern) females are all in female modern casual, with perhaps the last two in female modern business. Nothing new was added to the female rugged, gangster, or soldier since the October update. (Or at least the final images in the galleries that I can see are the same ones that have been the last image since October.) Male modern rugged might have one or two new, but it's definitely less than four because the fourth one from the end has been up there at least since the October update. There are a few new at the end of male modern gangster, and modern casual, but I'm not sure how many.

I don't know how many portraits there were in total, but I can verify that the portrait I know was sent in prior to October 15th *IS* now uploaded. The total number of new portraits that I'm seeing feels a little light to be four months' worth, but I don't really have any idea what the average number of submissions per month are, so that's just a feeling. Someone else that knows an image that was specifically sent in during the November/December/January update cycles will have to verify those... but it does look like October at least is definitely finally uploaded.

Thanks for finally getting those in, gents.

This message was last edited by the user at 17:35, Tue 28 Jan.

Warrax
 subscriber, 236 posts
Tue 28 Jan 2020
at 17:20
Re: Portrait Submissions - On Hold Until Further Notice
As far as particulars, here's a rough go of it.

November update was pretty small.

Neutral demihuman and around a half-dozen in the Alien category.

1 male demihuman and spellcaster, three gangster, 2 rugged.

female 19th century, 3 casual, 1 alien.

somewhere in there, the 3 backlogged ones from October got in there, but I forget what they were.

December

neutral air, 4 neutral monster, 8 neutral demihuman, 1 neutral rogue, 1 business, 2 casual, 5 alien.

2 male casual, 1 rugged

1 female demihuman, 1 spellcaster, 1 business, 2 casual
Warrax
 subscriber, 237 posts
Tue 28 Jan 2020
at 17:36
Re: Portrait Submissions - On Hold Until Further Notice
There are still ten portraits for January pending. They are mostly female portraits and should be up in a few minutes, now that I'm finished with the backlog.

Submissions per month vary, and honestly, we don't have good data on that for various reasons. January has 10 portraits. November had about 13, December had 30. I'm tracking them from October forward, obviously, so we'll have a better idea in a few months. Even that, though, I expect to change. Posters have known for what, 3+ years that portrait submissions have been a little wonky? That's around when Shannara first suspended them.  So I suspect that as the updates get done more regularly and reliably, we'll see the average number rise at least somewhat.  I'd expect more of the 30-portrait months than those with 10 or 12.
SunRuanEr
 subscriber, 194 posts
Tue 28 Jan 2020
at 17:38
Re: Portrait Submissions - On Hold Until Further Notice
Thanks for the list, Warrax.

Those two Neutral Casuals appear to have broken links in the gallery, though.
Warrax
 subscriber, 238 posts
Tue 28 Jan 2020
at 17:42
Re: Portrait Submissions - On Hold Until Further Notice
2 more male rugged. 1 female rugged, 1 female spellcaster and 6 female casual just uploaded.

Neutral casuals should be fixed now. Let me know.
SunRuanEr
 subscriber, 195 posts
Tue 28 Jan 2020
at 17:43
Re: Portrait Submissions - On Hold Until Further Notice
Links are fixed now, aye sir.
Warrax
 subscriber, 239 posts
Tue 28 Jan 2020
at 17:45
Re: Portrait Submissions - On Hold Until Further Notice
All right, good stuff, thanks for checking.


So yes, we are fully up to date at this point, and should be on track for February once the submission window closes in two weeks (ish).

Thanks for bearing with us, folks.
Mahatatain
 member, 223 posts
Tue 28 Jan 2020
at 17:53
Re: Portrait Submissions - On Hold Until Further Notice
The two portraits I submitted over the last couple of months are there.

Thanks to the whole team for uploading all the portraits.
tibiotarsus
 member, 120 posts
 Hopepunk with a shovel
Tue 28 Jan 2020
at 19:56
Re: Portrait Submissions - On Hold Until Further Notice
Warrax:
female 19th century, 3 casual, 1 alien.


Huzzah! Thank you! Good to hear submissions may be working smoothly soon, too.

This message was last edited by the user at 19:57, Tue 28 Jan.

Visceri22
 member, 473 posts
Wed 29 Jan 2020
at 07:01
Re: Portrait Submissions - On Hold Until Further Notice
Glad to see things got uploaded. Sad to see mine that I submitted on two different occasions didn't. Just sent it again hoping third time's the charm.
Morgan Coldsoul
 member, 295 posts
 29+ years RP experience
 I'll forget again later
Wed 29 Jan 2020
at 07:35
Re: Portrait Submissions - On Hold Until Further Notice
Just checked for your email and actually don't recall seeing that one, before. I know you said it was a lizardfolk person and we got several of those, but it seems this one didn't get through somehow. Not sure why, if you sent it to the same email address, because it worked this time and it's definitely got your name on it.
MythZarya
 member, 34 posts
Wed 29 Jan 2020
at 19:44
Re: Portrait Submissions - On Hold Until Further Notice
In reply to Visceri22 (msg # 266):

Same. I submitted one on 11/10/2019 and resubmitted it on 01/09/2020. It hasn't made it to the gallery yet.
Morgan Coldsoul
 member, 296 posts
 29+ years RP experience
 I'll forget again later
Wed 29 Jan 2020
at 20:17
Re: Portrait Submissions - On Hold Until Further Notice
Double-check your email and make absolutely certain you provided your RPoL username. That's always the first thing I suggest, because if you don't include that, it's an automatic rejection. If you still have your submission email in your sent folder, take a look and make sure that's on there; if it is, resend it or forward it back to the submissions email so I can take a look and see what happened. If it's not, put that in there and send it again, and it'll be part of the Jan-Feb batch if you get it in before the 14th.

I'll keep an eye out, considering this is not the first time that's happened.
facemaker329
 member, 7155 posts
 Gaming for over 30
 years, and counting!
Wed 29 Jan 2020
at 20:43
Re: Portrait Submissions - On Hold Until Further Notice
Might also be advisable, if you haven't already done so, to check and make sure that your submission isn't too similar to something that's already in the gallery...
Morgan Coldsoul
 member, 297 posts
 29+ years RP experience
 I'll forget again later
Wed 29 Jan 2020
at 20:47
Re: Portrait Submissions - On Hold Until Further Notice
Yes, please check for duplicates, too!