tmagann
 member, 730 posts
Thu 22 Jul 2021
at 23:02
Re: I looked and can't find the answer...
In reply to Shannara (msg # 55):

It is nice to hear that it CAN happen, at least. Thank you.
Shannara
 moderator, 3885 posts
 When in doubt,
 frolic!
Fri 23 Jul 2021
at 20:11
I looked and can't find the answer...
Just clarifying to add that the above is the ONLY instance I'm aware of where a GM was refusing to delete a player in more than a decade.  It was handled quickly and easily with a simple 'rmail' and an acknowledgement that the player had been removed per their request. Granted, my memory isn't 100%, but this has been far from a common occurrence.

If there is an actual problem where the GM has refused to delete a player, rmail the moderators.

For those who would like to be removed from a game if a GM hasn't acted within a week, to speed up the process, include a link to the thread or PM where you've asked to be removed.    One of us will nip over to the game, confirm that it's been a week, and take care of it, and let you know via reply that it's been done.
tmagann
 member, 731 posts
Fri 23 Jul 2021
at 20:20
I looked and can't find the answer...
In reply to Shannara (msg # 57):

"Refused" and "Failed to act when online and active" are likely different in your opinion?

As I said, I've had an active GM failed to respond or acknowledge requests before. After a day i took my requests public to the game, and it STILL took 3 more days, with never a word from the GM.

Yes, not good for the game, but the ONLY mechanism allowed us to get it done quicker than 7 days.

To me, this is a Refusal to drop a player.
bigbadron
 moderator, 16026 posts
 He's big, he's bad,
 but mostly he's Ron.
Fri 23 Jul 2021
at 20:48
I looked and can't find the answer...
Even if the GM is on line and active, there is nothing to indicate whether or not he has checked the PM threads.

In the case that Shannara mentions, the GM basically told the player, "I'll remove you when I'm good and ready, and not before.  And there's nothing you can do about it." in the PM thread.  So we had solid evidence to work with, rather than just having to guess that the GM had actually looked at the thread, and was aware of the request.

In those circumstances, it was an easy decision to remove the player early.  Without the comment from the GM, it would not have been so clear cut.
tmagann
 member, 732 posts
Fri 23 Jul 2021
at 21:03
I looked and can't find the answer...
In reply to bigbadron (msg # 59):

NO,, but as OI said, I took it to the public threads and it still took days. If he's posting to them, it's a safe bet he's checking them.

If  GM is active, he shouldn't need more than a day. If he takes more than a day, it's because he ants to.
Yozi
 member, 625 posts
Fri 23 Jul 2021
at 21:05
I looked and can't find the answer...
He or she.
tmagann
 member, 733 posts
Fri 23 Jul 2021
at 21:07
I looked and can't find the answer...
In reply to Yozi (msg # 61):

I apologize for being grammatically correct rather than politicly correct.
bigbadron
 moderator, 16027 posts
 He's big, he's bad,
 but mostly he's Ron.
Fri 23 Jul 2021
at 21:15
I looked and can't find the answer...
In reply to tmagann (msg # 60):

In which case, you contact us by rMail and let us deal with it.
Zag24
 supporter, 700 posts
Sat 24 Jul 2021
at 21:06
Re: I looked and can't find the answer...
tmagann:
In reply to Yozi (msg # 61):

I apologize for being grammatically correct rather than politicly correct.

Actually, your use of the masculine third person pronoun is no longer considered correct in cases where the gender of the noun for which you are substituting is not known.  It is now correct to use what used to be the third person plural pronoun.  When the subjective form is used, it is paired with a singular verb.  In other words, the third person plural pronouns now also serve as the gender-unknown third person singular pronouns.
tmagann
 member, 734 posts
Sat 24 Jul 2021
at 21:37
Re: I looked and can't find the answer...
Then I apologize for being old enough to have learned different rules of grammar.

Yeesh.
Evil Empryss
 supporter, 1580 posts
 Insert witty and
 appropriate quote here
Sat 24 Jul 2021
at 21:55
Re: I looked and can't find the answer...
Unless you're older than "Grade School in the 70s", it has been an acceptable alternate form for the unknown gender third person for a long time. We're just making it the preferred form now, out of consideration for others. Mister Rogers would likely approve, and that's one of the best litmus tests around for whether or not something should be done.

Mods, since the thread is waaay off the topic and the answer to the OP has been made, can this thread be locked so it doesn't get more... cranky?
tmagann
 member, 735 posts
Sat 24 Jul 2021
at 22:06
Re: I looked and can't find the answer...
In reply to Evil Empryss (msg # 66):

I am, as it happens.
Low Key
 subscriber, 252 posts
Sat 24 Jul 2021
at 23:09
Re: I looked and can't find the answer...
tmagann:
In reply to Yozi (msg # 61):

I apologize for being grammatically correct rather than using inclusive language and being grammatically correct.


There isn't a choice between grammar and inclusivity.
And I don't know when what happened in the American school system, but I know Shakespeare used the singular 'they', so unless you're older than Will (in which case, wow!) you had inclusive and grammatical options.

Back on topic, I understand that you were in a frustrating situation where you wanted to leave a game and the site rules left you feeling trapped in an uncomfortable situation.
Which, I'm sorry that happened to you. I value this site, and I know that when things go wrong here it's upsetting.
I empathize with that.
But, while I know 7 days isn't perfect in every case, I can understand the logic behind why it was chosen.
pdboddy
 supporter, 717 posts
 EST/EDT [GMT-5/GMT-4]
Sat 24 Jul 2021
at 23:20
Re: I looked and can't find the answer...
tmagann:
In reply to bigbadron (msg # 59):
If  GM is active, he shouldn't need more than a day. If he takes more than a day, it's because he ants to.


No, I get that you were annoyed, but you shouldn't assume that an active GM is going to do something inside a particular amount of time.  You're attributing to malice what is more likely simply being busy.
tmagann
 member, 736 posts
Sat 24 Jul 2021
at 23:23
Re: I looked and can't find the answer...
In reply to Low Key (msg # 68):

Shakespeare was English. I went to an American school. There ARE differences. That's why Noah Webster wrote an American Dictionary: Because there are differences, and were back then.
tmagann
 member, 737 posts
Sat 24 Jul 2021
at 23:24
Re: I looked and can't find the answer...
pdboddy:
No, I get that you were annoyed, but you shouldn't assume that an active GM is going to do something inside a particular amount of time.  You're attributing to malice what is more likely simply being busy.


He couldn't have been too busy if he was actively posting. It isn't really all that hard to remove someone.
Low Key
 subscriber, 253 posts
Sat 24 Jul 2021
at 23:31
Re: I looked and can't find the answer...
In reply to tmagann (msg # 70):

As I acknowledged :)

But, I maintain, there isn't a need to choose between inclusive language and grammatical correctness, as you implied.
You can have both, whichever side of the Atlantic you're on.
pdboddy
 supporter, 718 posts
 EST/EDT [GMT-5/GMT-4]
Sat 24 Jul 2021
at 23:32
Re: I looked and can't find the answer...
In reply to tmagann (msg # 70):

Shakespeare was English before the US was imagined, let alone existed.  Modern English has many, many, many Shakespearian terms.  I'll bet you a good lunch you think or say at least a couple Shakespearian terms a day. :3

As for the neutral gender third person term, it's been a thing for a while now.
pdboddy
 supporter, 719 posts
 EST/EDT [GMT-5/GMT-4]
Sat 24 Jul 2021
at 23:35
Re: I looked and can't find the answer...
In reply to tmagann (msg # 71):

I agree, it isn't hard to remove someone.  It is easy to miss that you have a private message, though.
tmagann
 member, 738 posts
Sat 24 Jul 2021
at 23:45
Re: I looked and can't find the answer...
Low Key:
In reply to tmagann (msg # 70):

As I acknowledged :)

But, I maintain, there isn't a need to choose between inclusive language and grammatical correctness, as you implied.
You can have both, whichever side of the Atlantic you're on.


I didn't say there was a need to choose, I simply said I learned a different set of rules than those that are considered correct by many currently.

As it happens I didn't choose so much as went by reflex and habit.

And to the other point: Yes, many modern terms come from Shakespeare? So what? He's been 400 years, and was from another country. Noah Webster wrote An American Dictionary over 195 years ago. Because English dictionaries didn't reflect American English of the time.

Hell, the whole reason America exists as a country is so that we wouldn't have to do things the English way. I would assume that would include linguistic drift. So "because that's how Shakespeare did it 400 years ago in England" is hardly an argument for how it should be done today in America.

Seriously, it feels a bit like trolling to start taking exception with my grammar, folks, just to keep things going here. Yeesh.
Low Key
 subscriber, 254 posts
Sun 25 Jul 2021
at 00:00
Re: I looked and can't find the answer...
tmagann:
I didn't say there was a need to choose, I simply said I learned a different set of rules than those that are considered correct by many currently.

As it happens I didn't choose so much as went by reflex and habit.


You said you chose grammar over inclusive language which does imply a choice.
And implies that one has to chose between the two (which, again, I maintain one doesn't need to do).

And, yeah, I (and I suspect everyone) have been there where habit means I say something that isn't as inclusive as I meant.
I apologise, correct myself, and try to do better next time.

Not trolling, I address the original point before. You didn't address what I said on that, only the grammar stuff, so not sure what else I can add on the game removal issue at this point.
tmagann
 member, 739 posts
Sun 25 Jul 2021
at 00:16
Re: I looked and can't find the answer...
I'm not sure what there was to address. I've made clear I think 3-4 days is more than enough, you said you understand 7 days might be needed.

Restating my position on that would just keep a pointless topic alive (as it is now) so I read it and left it alone.

I was trying to let it go. Truly, I'm not clear on what you think I should have addressed.
Zag24
 supporter, 701 posts
Sun 25 Jul 2021
at 02:37
Re: I looked and can't find the answer...
tmagann:
Then I apologize for being old enough to have learned different rules of grammar.

Yeesh.

Yeah.  I'm an old white guy, too.

As old white guys, we both should be especially suspicious of ourselves before we whine about "political correctness."  While it is true that it can be -- and sometimes is -- overdone, performing a double check to avoid speaking rudely from a position of privilege is a smart idea.  Having lived on the top of the hill of privilege for so long, it is often hard to see that so much of our instinctive behavior is born of that elevation.
tmagann
 member, 740 posts
Sun 25 Jul 2021
at 02:53
Re: I looked and can't find the answer...
Interesting. I mentioned my age. I said nothing about either my gender nor my race.

Might be your "elevation" making assumptions.
Zag24
 supporter, 702 posts
Sun 25 Jul 2021
at 04:02
Re: I looked and can't find the answer...
tmagann:
Interesting. I mentioned my age. I said nothing about either my gender nor my race.

Might be your "elevation" making assumptions.

And yet, was I wrong?