Sir Swindle:
Bobblin the merchant:
Also, riddles and puzzles should never block the main path of the party. They should add to the adventure, give extra treasure or information.
I fundamentally disagree with this if for no other reason than that the concept is nonsense.
The only optional content is the content that your party doesn't find. If they come to the door with one face that tells lies and one that tells the truth they are going to try and get through it. Even if it's not 100% necessary to the plot. For one they don't know that for sure.
For two players don't tend to just bypass non-dangerous challenges if there is a hint of a reward. For three
you still waste the night having them bash their head against the puzzle, even if they ultimately fail.
You can punish them for taking the easier way around, potentially. But if they are still attempting it, failing for their OOC shortcomings , then taking a penalty for going around the challenge then it was still a net loss on your game experience.
I did your work coming up with arguments for your statement. At least those that I found.
quote:
The only optional content is the content that your party doesn't find
This sounds more like frustration than an actual reason. A corridor that leads to the BBEG directly can have a side passage that's locked for the moment and the party has to return at some later point after acquiring the correct key. Which in this example is the puzzle/riddle but could also be a literal key. Only because in your decades of GMing you've never done that, doesn't mean that its impossible/nonesense.
quote:
For two players don't tend to just bypass non-dangerous challenges if there is a hint of a reward
That's true, though my players have learned that my D&D world is a moving living thing and that they can return to previous encounters and try their luck again. But that's something I think you have to tell/teach your players as a GM. My players are more than happy to try and slay the giant troll, at the same time they'll try to learn about it and retreat, preparing accordingly and try again should it proof to be too tough.
quote:
you still waste the night having them bash their head against the puzzle, even if they ultimately fail
That's the GM's fault then. As the GM you've to judge your own players and how much time you want to spend on riddles and puzzles. Trying to figure out a riddle for 3 hours is fun only for hardcore puzzle fans. Give them a time limit in which they either get simply locked out of a treasure room or have to use resources to still get it.
quote:
P.S. not giving the group the answer because your barbarian is too dumb to know it isn't an excuse and you are being shitty if you do that. You are smarter than your barbarian and your wizard player is dumber than his wizard. Figure it out OOC and then IC narrate appropriately.
I assume you're talking about my INT thresholds for extra hints? I see it the same as trying to break down a door. Why would you punish a wizard with a DC15 to kick down a reinforced door? It's totally unfair and a "shitty" thing to do. Or a Barbarian use their STR instead of CHA to intimidate!
Personally I'd say it would be bad if I weren't to let the Barbarian roll at all. It's just more difficult as he wanted to roleplay someone with lower INT.
I'm okay with calling it a simple "Agree to disagree". I like the occasional puzzle while you don't. If you wish we could continue this conversation via Private Message?
This message was last edited by the player at 14:30, Fri 09 Dec 2022.