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17:40, 28th March 2024 (GMT+0)

Keeping Posts Going in PbP.

Posted by BarryFor group 0
Barry
player, 8 posts
Sat 28 Oct 2017
at 19:30
  • msg #1

Keeping Posts Going in PbP

Advisor:
quote:
....Another is that some players just aren't decision makers, they will sit back and stay in the background a good deal of the time, and that's not necessarily a bad thing as long as there are a couple of players who are the take charge kind to keep things moving. If all the players are just sitting there saying 'well what do you think we should do?' to each other, then they'll never get anywhere.



I think this point is exceptionally prevalent in pbp games.  Quite a few games come to halts waiting for someone else to post.  I find this tends to crop up in freeform and sandbox games more often, especially if they are GM-lite.  A lot of games often descend into scenes between a couple of people and if someone has a couple of days out things grind to a halt.

Roleplaying is a social contract but on here we don't know each other and are often at different sides of the planet.  Pbp suits people (like me) who would never be able to get a few hours a week to have a face to face / live game.  As a consequence 'good manners' waiting for others can stall games.

As a player, I try and give people a couple of days to post so I can be inclusive (no one wants to wake up and find there have been pages of posts you have been excluded from by two characters in your scene).  However, I think good player advice is to just 'do something' and not be afraid to move on if you're waiting.

I'd be interested in some GM point of views here....

From my perspective I think there are a couple of things I'd do;

1) Set posting expectations - remember that the game is for everyone, not just once a month or once every half hour posters.
2) Not be afraid to NPC a PC to move on or 'shadow' NPC them
3) (The most important) Set the pace and agenda.  If the players are floundering at making a decision or waiting for something to happen, give them something to react to and bounce off

Thoughts?
Advisor
GM, 11 posts
Sat 28 Oct 2017
at 19:44
  • msg #2

Keeping Posts Going in PbP

I am myself guilty of this. PbP is not for me when it comes to larger groups. It takes so long for anything to happen that I lose interest. Also I've had situations where a lack of confidence in something like rules knowledge or my understanding of a situation has held me back to wait on other people's posts; or I just might feel I haven't got anything meaningful to add. As you said this can easily lead to a situation where everyone's waiting on someone else to post and the game stalls.

I feel both the players and the GM share a part of this problem. As a player I believe we should make an effort to keep people informed and keep things active. Like if no one has posted anything in the IC thread for a couple of days people should speak up ooc and at least check what other people are doing, probably also should state why they haven't posted. It doesn't have to be long just a 'hey how's everyone doing?' or 'I haven't posted anything in the last couple of days because ...' it's hard to know what's going on when all you're looking at is a thread with a post from 3 days ago and no one knows what's going on.

The flip side to this is that the GM needs to be more willing to push things along. My natural instinct as a GM is let the players tell me when they're ready to move on, maybe with a couple of prodding questions on occasion. If your players aren't producing a lot of posts though I believe the GM needs to take it upon themself to say 'so it sounds like you were leaning towards doing x. well you head in that direction ...' sometimes it might lead to an upset player but there's not much that can be done about that without grinding everything to a halt.

Completely separate from all that, with regards to those with a high posting rate, to me it completely depends on the situation is. If the scene is playing out quickly, like 2 people standing around having a conversation, then I'm fine with it going on. I mean if two people happen to be on and bang out 10 posts each then I won't complain. If someone else was also supposed to be part of the conversation and they wake up to 20 posts it's a little unfortunate for the third person, but as long as there was no decision making or other vital plot related thing that happened then it's just one of the pitfalls of PbP. On the other hand if you're driving the story forward then you should absolutely wait a short amount of time for others chime in (at least a day imo unless everyone has had a chance to respond in less time). So for me it's all about context.
Window Watcher
player=, 5 posts
Sat 28 Oct 2017
at 21:05
  • msg #3

Keeping Posts Going in PbP

Definitely give an expected posting rate. That way people who would be too slow know to keep out, and people that would be faster know they’ll have to ease off a little.

Some people follow posting order, and see it as rude to break it.
I’m personally not a fan of it, especially in larger groups. I think it forces the “delay” between posts to add up, rather than happen at the same time.
Also, often in groups some people have something to say/add/contribute, and others just don’t really. Some players are leaders and decision makers, or they have important information to share, others are followers or waiting to be informed.

That said, I do agree people should give others some chance to post, so players A and B don’t leave C in the dust.
You also want to be careful you don’t make people feel too irrelevant. (Kind of a different issue.)

Agreed that it’s on both the GM and the players to keep things moving.

I think players should announce any delays on their end, even if minor or only possibility. (Unfortunately, I find people aren’t great about this.)
I also think players should ask what the situation is, either the GM or other players. That way people can see who is waiting on who, make sure two people aren’t waiting on each other, or find who is holding things up. It also tends to jolt people.

And then the GM should keep people in the know, and push people when needed. “Player A will be out this weekend, move on without them.” “Haven’t heard from Player B, continue without them.”
Sometimes they have to poke players to jolt them. (PM or even rMail to single people out.)
If a PC can’t just be set into follow mode or removed from the scene, GM might have to bot them personally.

Unfortunately, doing the above might come off as rude and upset people at times, because it is sort of pestering them. Worse, sometimes people have legitimate real life excuses.
I think the point stands though, because you don’t want to hold up everyone else, doing so isn’t gonna help that person’s problem. They may have to accept they don't have time for the game.
Liz
player, 6 posts
Sat 28 Oct 2017
at 21:14
  • msg #4

Keeping Posts Going in PbP

Yeah, I usually state in the rules how often people share post at the minimum, and have an "Absent" Thread, so people can notify everyone of when they're gonna absent; however, some people seem to just completely jump off the face of the earth for no reason whatsoever.
hoppa
player=, 5 posts
Sun 29 Oct 2017
at 01:35
  • msg #5

Keeping Posts Going in PbP

I like to use a long winded RTJ process to try to find players who will post at the pace I want.  I'll ask the player a set of clarifying questions once a day - my intended posting rate - and time the response.  A player who intends to play at the speed I want can usually keep up with this daily routine.  I usually ask 3 or 4 sets of questions.  I also use this to test for writing quality and player flexibility.  To keep the pace going, I post once a day no matter what, but exactly once a day.  I may make more than one post with different NPC's, but I make them all at once.

I had a couple questions of my own:
1)  Does anyone have a solid method for dealing with long term leaves of absence?  How about those players that just fall off the face of the Earth?
2)  Is there a way to cool the jets of those berserk players who post way more than the others?  I don't like losing players because they feel left in the dust.
Window Watcher
player=, 6 posts
Sun 29 Oct 2017
at 04:05
  • msg #6

Keeping Posts Going in PbP

@Liz: Yeah, no kidding. I think it’s good to realize just how often people disappear like that, so you don’t wait for them too long.
What surprises me is that it’s not as predictable as you might think. I’ve had players with very fleshed out characters that were really involved in the game just disappear without a word.
My mindset is not to count on anyone too much, because anyone can disappear or have to leave.

I dunno if people have had a different experience when using a system (as opposed to freeform), or when the game revolves around a small group.

@hoppa: If it’s going to be a long absence (multiple months), I’d probably just remove them and say they can return then. I think it’s unlikely they’ll actually return.
If it’s more like a month, I’d put them on hiatus. Once they’re supposed to return, I’d PM/rmail them. If no response, I’d remove them.

Disappearing acts… I’m coming from a “post once a week” setting.
Once I sense they’re inactive, I’ll message them (probably PM, or rMail if they haven’t been logging in). About a week after that I’ll message them again (rMail). About a week after that, I’ll remove them and send an rMail just to close the loop.

There’s of course variables. Players that are newer, less rooted, or have a history of dragging, get less leniency. And the opposite for the opposite.
But I do try to lean towards removing people. They can come back if they want, but I find they usually don’t.


Can’t say I’ve had the problem of people posting too much. :-P
Maybe try to group them with players that can keep up with them.
Maybe let them play as more characters, so they have more to occupy them. (Maybe minor characters.)
Could also suggest they join other games to occupy more of their time.
If they're making short/low quality posts, could challenge them to improve them.

Or, you could explain that the posting rate you’ve set is what it is, and other players (and you) shouldn’t have to speed up just to accommodate them. You might drop the hint that if they’re not okay with that, they can withdraw. (For both points, probably more politely than I just listed.)

I’d worry about someone with too much time on their hands though, sounds too good to be true. They might be having a stretch of downtime (vacation, etc.) and looking for something to fill their time, but then RL busyness will resume (and peak) and they’ll have bitten off more than they can chew.
Barry
player, 10 posts
Sun 29 Oct 2017
at 07:31
  • msg #7

Keeping Posts Going in PbP

Very sensible WW, that's a good approach.

Following from hoppa's comments about rtj's I think that may be an interesting area of discussion all based on how do you get enough of the players you want?
Liz
player, 7 posts
Sun 29 Oct 2017
at 09:09
  • msg #8

Keeping Posts Going in PbP

Well, what I did back when I still GM'd is let in more people than I actually wanted, because most lose interest within the first month. If I noticed someone hasn't posted anything in ten days without due notice, I PM them asking if they're still playing, a week without response, I rMail them with a warning stating that if they don't reply within three days, they'll be removed from the game. Whether or not the character gets killed off depends on the setting of the game.
Advisor
GM, 13 posts
Sun 29 Oct 2017
at 19:52
  • msg #9

Keeping Posts Going in PbP

If someone's disappeared/taking a leave of absence then I treat it as I do for an absentee during a normal game session. Just have the character fade into the background like he's there but he's not really doing anything right now. It requires a bit of suspension of disbelief from everyone but sometimes that's necessary. Alternately if the opportunity is there then you can say the character just hasn't been around. He stayed in the tavern for a few days getting drunk or he decided to chase a skirt before getting his face slapped and having to return to the group. This is much easier to do if the party is in a populated area.

If they're gone for extended periods then I agree with the just drop them mentality. My personal line is about 3 - 5 weeks depending on the person and the circumstances, this goes for non-pbp games too actually. I'm not so good on the checking in though. I'll send one or two messages and if I don't get a reply in short order (anything up to a week) then that's it. I'm not going to chase someone.
evileeyore
player, 2 posts
Thu 2 Nov 2017
at 18:23
  • msg #10

Re: Keeping Posts Going in PbP

hoppa:
2)  Is there a way to cool the jets of those berserk players who post way more than the others?  I don't like losing players because they feel left in the dust.

Since no one else has really touched this one, let me pop in here, from the viewpoint of a postzerker...

The best way is to simply PM them.  Say something along the lines of "Hey, not to dampen your enthusiasm (enthusiasm is GREAT!), but can you hold back every so often in social/combat/invetigative/etc scenes so other people can pop into the spotlight?"

Not that I've ever been PMed like this... but... if I were that's the type of message I'd respond to.


As a postzerker one of the first things I do if I notice I'm outposting everyone else is to pop into OOC and ask if I'm annoying anyone.  if I'm pushing anyone else out of the spotlight?

9 times out of 10 the other Players are happy that I'm keeping the game chugging along and would prefer I keep "leading by example".

But then I try not to completely spotlight hog by making characters with incredible gaps in their competence, so other PCs will always have areas to step in and shine when my PC is floundering about like a moron.
Suedog
player, 2 posts
Thu 18 May 2023
at 21:48
  • msg #11

Re: Keeping Posts Going in PbP

 Grab a snickers, this might be a bit long.   I'm a blind player of RPOL, who is thinking of running my first D&D 5e game, in Eberron. I'll be eventually asking for a co-dm to help me with a few specific things, and I plan to  do that once I'm a little further along in the setup, but am not there yet.   What then are some things you think I should be aware of running D&D5e on RPOL?
Any of you  run a game with a Co-DM, what are some things you wished you knew before hand?

Thanks.
Window Watcher
GM, 51 posts
Thu 18 May 2023
at 22:42
  • msg #12

Re: Keeping Posts Going in PbP

On having a co-gm:
A Voice in the Dark from "Components of a Successful Sandbox" msg #10:
Co-GM's are a bit of a sticky wicket. When using a Co-GM you should do so from the beginning. I've seen it done well, and I've seen it done terribly. Both need to either be already telling the same story, or one needs to be only dealing with one aspect of the game.

I'm currently a Co-GM in a game for a friend of mine, and my sole areas of responsibility is editing the posts. with a small amount of help regarding rules, though I don't make the rulings. I simply edit his and the player's posts for readability and grammar. (My friend has speech issues and asked for that help.)

I've seen games with Co-GM's that were able to work well, and other's that died from GM infighting/confusion. The ones that worked well were those that followed the rules above. I believe that the key to a success in that situation is the same as in most. Communication.


On DnD on RPoL...

Following the initiative order like normal (in series) may slow things down, because for each person's turn there will be a delay as you wait for them to post. In person it's not so bad, but on play by post it could add up.

One solution might be: when a new round begins, just tell everyone to post their actions, and then once everyone has posted, things play out per initiative order.
Players can do a little "if this happens, do X, if that happens, do Y." You might just have to accept that some flexibility will be lost for the sake of keeping things going. Or, if something really big and unexpected happens partway through the initiative order, you allow those remaining to adjust their actions.

Another solution would be to have phases. Team A phase, then team B phase. Or break it up a little, team A1 phase (the faster people on team A), then team B1 phase, then team A2, then team B2.
This might reduce the weight of good initiative, or lead to power combos, but it's an idea.
A Voice in the Dark
GM, 112 posts
Fri 19 May 2023
at 02:35
  • msg #13

Re: Keeping Posts Going in PbP

In reply to Window Watcher (msg # 12):

Uhm... What is the relation to my comment?
Suedog
player, 4 posts
Fri 19 May 2023
at 02:45
  • msg #14

Re: Keeping Posts Going in PbP

In reply to Window Watcher (msg # 12):



According to RPOL rules I have to finish setting up the game, before I can request a Co-DM. That's when I'll ask for one, just in case my first post was unclear... it probably was.
Sir Swindle
player, 49 posts
Fri 19 May 2023
at 14:27
  • msg #15

Re: Keeping Posts Going in PbP

Pretty sure "Set-up" literally just means created. They don't want game chatter on public forums so they want to make sure you can link them to your game and then you can chat there. The mods don't pay a huge amount of attention to the contents of specific games.
Gryphon173
player, 1 post
Fri 19 May 2023
at 14:59
  • msg #16

Re: Keeping Posts Going in PbP

quote:
Any of you  run a game with a Co-DM, what are some things you wished you knew before hand?

I run an RPoL game with a co-GM, which started out because they were more experienced with RPoL and I wanted help setting up the game. They are someone that I've known for a long time, so I trust their judgment and discretion.

In that particular game, the co-GM is also a player, and that's the question I'll toss back at you: would you and/or the co-GM be playing as well as GMing?
Suedog
player, 5 posts
Fri 19 May 2023
at 15:06
  • msg #17

Re: Keeping Posts Going in PbP

In reply to Sir Swindle (msg # 15):



Okay, thanks, I'll keep that in mind, but I'd like to have a few things  finished before I go looking.
Suedog
player, 6 posts
Fri 19 May 2023
at 15:11
  • msg #18

Re: Keeping Posts Going in PbP

In reply to Gryphon173 (msg # 16):


I wouldn't be playing, but the Co-DM could if they wanted.
Window Watcher
GM, 52 posts
Sat 20 May 2023
at 04:01
  • msg #19

Re: Keeping Posts Going in PbP

A Voice in the Dark:
In reply to Window Watcher (msg # 12):

Uhm... What is the relation to my comment?
It seemed like Suedog was asking for advice regarding how to manage a Co-GM.
I remembered someone (you) gave some advice regarding co-GM's, so I quote-copy-pasted it here and gave credit where due.
Hope that clears things up.
A Voice in the Dark
GM, 113 posts
Sat 20 May 2023
at 04:57
  • msg #20

Re: Keeping Posts Going in PbP

Ah! Okay. Was confused there. No worries.
Gryphon173
player, 2 posts
Sat 20 May 2023
at 18:11
  • msg #21

Re: Keeping Posts Going in PbP

In reply to Suedog (msg # 18):

I've been a player in several games, both PnP/tabletop and the one game here, where there was a co-GM. I ran one AD&D campaign where I had one. Finally, I have the one campaign here on RPoL where I have a co-GM.

If you're going to let the co-GM play, then I'd recommend it be someone you've known for a long time and who is reliable. Leaked storylines or villain names/motivations can be devastating to the life of a campaign. Or, as is true in my Changeling the Lost campaign on RPoL, I simply haven't shared any campaign knowledge with my co-GM. They are just there to help players with character construction and/or advancement, and (because they're more experienced with Onyx Path's New World of Darkness) to help with rules interpretation.

I came to an agreement about that -- that they would not run scenes, and be just a player so far as that goes -- with the person, so we are both happy with the arrangement. Yes, they can see all PMs, but they have agreed not to use any PM information in-character.

I really don't need them to co-GM anymore; I'm much more familiar with the rules now and have the RPoL game pages pretty much where I want them. I left them with the status more for inertia's sake than anything else.

I have about four nightmare campaigns I played in the past where the co-GM thing had to eventually be stopped (i.e., co-GM fired from that job), or where the two GMs were romantically involved and there was extreme favoritism. The one where I was the main GM and had a co-GM went well (primarily because they were a quality player and inherently honest as well). I would like to think I wouldn't allow that sort of thing to go on if I'm running, but I'm human and all too capable of making mistakes, even though I've been DM/GMing since 1976. (bones creak)
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