OOC: Game Discussion.   Posted by Narrator.Group: 0
Oldtimer
 player, 3 posts
Sun 15 Apr 2018
at 19:38
Re: OOC: Game Discussion
I love the idea of doing something like Numenera, but I would like not to use that canon. I'd rather have more input into the canon/structure/history of the world.

The cool thing about Exalted was that there are different factions that do actually understand the power; I would like that to play into things.

So, questions for everyone: do we want a "generic" world with multiple climates, or something more focused/limited, like Dark Sun's desert or Waterworld or something like that?
Narrator
 GM, 11 posts
 PC/NPC Wrangler
 Not God, but Physics
Mon 16 Apr 2018
at 16:46
Re: OOC: Game Discussion
I'm inclined to have a more open world, multiple climates and region variety would be nice to tap into (for the sake of "visitors" from "out-of-town"), though we can choose a particular location to "center" ourselves. Exalted seems to be a popular pick, if we mixed in some modernized elements (1920's-esque steampunk-y technology, like Fullmetal Alchemist or Legend of Korra) and some Numenera-like items commonly popping up in the Creation cosmology and mythos (if not 100% of the history), we might have us a nice little setting. (can you tell I'm getting really itchy to write a Lore thread?)

I don't want to end the discussion here, of course. I'm all ears if someone has a concern or something they'd like to see. I'm hoping to check as many of everyone's boxes as possible.
wolfgangx
 player, 5 posts
Tue 17 Apr 2018
at 01:04
Re: OOC: Game Discussion
The idea of long lost, ultra powerful artifacts from ages long gone is always an interesting idea. It also raises the possibility of someone who found this tech rising to the same level as an Exalted. Like an Iron Man type character versus a Supermanesque character.
Oldtimer
 player, 4 posts
Tue 17 Apr 2018
at 13:47
Re: OOC: Game Discussion
All sounds fine to me. My caveat is that I don't really remember anything from the Exalted world and don't have the time or ready ability to read up on canon, so I'd ask that we not make knowledge of the canon of that world something required for our world-building. This would be a "far distant future of the Exalted" world or something resembling, in my preference.
Narrator
 GM, 12 posts
 PC/NPC Wrangler
 Not God, but Physics
Tue 17 Apr 2018
at 16:17
Re: OOC: Game Discussion
The Ninth World of Creation? Duuude.
Oldtimer
 player, 5 posts
Thu 19 Apr 2018
at 13:15
Re: OOC: Game Discussion
What's our next step?
Narrator
 GM, 13 posts
 PC/NPC Wrangler
 Not God, but Physics
Thu 19 Apr 2018
at 13:57
Re: OOC: Game Discussion
I'll be bumping the players wanted ad sometime today/tomorrow, and then we can start settling on the setting. New players may want input on that front, though running the Ninth World of Creation seems like an early favorite (though I don't want to lock that in just yet). But we've got factions (on the smaller scale) to start developing, and I'll start knocking together a Lore thread, just to cover the broad strokes of the cosmology, the larger forces of good & evil (plus the various shades of grey in between), and how physics works (more or less).

I know it's tough to world-build without any foundations to build on, but we have some designs & the concrete gets poured this weekend. Promise. I want to make sure the first 5-6 players get input on the setting, but I don't want to hold things up either, should we not get that many.
angille
 player, 2 posts
Thu 19 Apr 2018
at 16:46
Re: OOC: Game Discussion
I am 100% on-board with FMA or LoK thematic trappings. yes please.

in PMs, I did mention the world-building tool ( https://samhaine.wordpress.com...ways-world-creation/ ) I used for my last game, and with as much setting input as you're looking for from us players my suggestion is to take a closer look at it (despite reservations at the use of the word "pathways").

there's also a simpler version ( https://samhaine.wordpress.com...tasy-world-creation/ ) that's character-agnostic (as in, just world-building) that could be more appropriate?

sorry if it seems like I'm trying to push too hard they're just tools for keeping the process focused.
Narrator
 GM, 14 posts
 PC/NPC Wrangler
 Not God, but Physics
Thu 19 Apr 2018
at 17:00
Re: OOC: Game Discussion
Having done that sort of world-building before on RPoL, I found it was tough to get everyone to "do their homework", so this time around I'm taking a more free-wheeling approach to what gets contributed.

If there's something people want to see, they have to speak up, basically. I'm only going to require the broadest strokes for locations and/or NPCs, basically enough of a start that I can flesh out their mechanics and details as an afterthought. I'm a pretty easygoing GM, odds are most of everyone's ideas will be included somehow. I might even include a PP/XP bonus if a player encounters their own contribution (or someone else's, maybe both, I'm not certain yet). I also know it's tough to spin NPCs and locations without any idea of what's possible in the setting, so as soon as I get some basic Lore locked-down, we can start brainstorming again. If people want to toss out more ideas in the meantime, they're welcome to do so, those ideas may just get altered a bit more to fit in the setting.
Narrator
 GM, 15 posts
 PC/NPC Wrangler
 Not God, but Physics
Sat 21 Apr 2018
at 12:55
Re: OOC: Game Discussion
Alright! Game Ad's been bumped & has been up for a few days, from what's been written, it looks like we have something of a concensus on the setting. Here's what I'm gleaning from the existing posts:

Primarily: Exalted cosmology and physics, though historic details up to the 2nd Age may be altered, and everything since will be whole-cloth.

Add: An unknown number of Creation-wide cataclysms (so we're technically post-several Apocalypses, though Creation's pantheon and Exalts keep things on an even keel somewhat)

Add: Essence-based technology, allowing mere mortals to use limited bits of magic like Exalts do naturally (so lots of old & new bits of Essence tech/magic around, like Numenera)

Add: Thousands of years since that Essence-tech was originally invented, has since popularized and disappeared with the rise and fall of ages. (lots & lots more old/broken/unstable E-tech)

Add: Current Age is well-developed (1920s-ish steampunk-y Essence tech available), though knowing Creation, it's only a matter of time before someone tries to destroy or upend the plane.

Add: City-focused, urban setting, though what the surrounding area is like hasn't been decided. Mountain? Plains? Coast? Swamp? Jungle/forest?

Anyone with concerns about any of the above? I'll start writing a Lore thread on Mon/Tues if nobody has problems with the above or has stuff they wanna throw into the blender as well. Then I'll get the rules thread whipped into shape and we can start making PCs, NPCs, factions, events, what-have-you!!! I'm so excited!!!
Oldtimer
 player, 6 posts
Sat 21 Apr 2018
at 13:02
Re: OOC: Game Discussion
Narrator:
Primarily: Exalted cosmology and physics, though historic details up to the 2nd Age may be altered, and everything since will be whole-cloth.


All good. My character (and his player) will know next to nothing about the world's history prior to the most recent couple of cataclysms.

quote:
Add: An unknown number of Creation-wide cataclysms (so we're technically post-several Apocalypses, though Creation's pantheon and Exalts keep things on an even keel somewhat)


To that end, I will need a pointer to as summary of that pantheon and Exalts.

quote:
Add: Essence-based technology, allowing mere mortals to use limited bits of magic like Exalts do naturally (so lots of old & new bits of Essence tech/magic around, like Numenera)


Sounds good.

quote:
Add: Thousands of years since that Essence-tech was originally invented, has since popularized and disappeared with the rise and fall of ages. (lots & lots more old/broken/unstable E-tech)


Also good.

quote:
Add: Current Age is well-developed (1920s-ish steampunk-y Essence tech available), though knowing Creation, it's only a matter of time before someone tries to destroy or upend the plane.


This one's new to me, but if that's what you want, that's fine.

quote:
Add: City-focused, urban setting, though what the surrounding area is like hasn't been decided. Mountain? Plains? Coast? Swamp? Jungle/forest?


Here's my two cents: I think the city where we start the story sits on a major bay. It's an old city with a long history, with some buildings dating back to prior epochs. It's been built up a lot in the last 20 years, so there's a collision of new and old in the city. The city is part of a somewhat-egalitarian constitutional monarchy that is really a bit more monarchy than republic, but where common citizens still have a decent amount of say. Things are really run behind the scenes by major powers, though, whose lives the party will soon complicate by encountering Essence tech that will change everything...
Narrator
 GM, 21 posts
 PC/NPC Wrangler
 Not God, but Physics
Mon 23 Apr 2018
at 15:01
Re: OOC: Game Discussion
Alright! I think I've got a halfway decent Lore thread, and the Rules thread has been updated. I still have some details to work out in terms of how Essence and the Essence-based Numenera-like items will work, so if anyone's got ideas there, that'd be welcome.

Once we've got those last rules questions nailed down, we can use this thread for worldbuilding again.

I'll get a Character Sheet set up as well, plus an XP thread so everyone's up to speed with XP awards and when people can start advancing. A character-building thread is also on my to-do list, so we can discuss character concepts and character building rules.
wolfgangx
 player, 10 posts
Mon 23 Apr 2018
at 20:41
Re: OOC: Game Discussion

This message was deleted by the player at 20:52, Mon 23 Apr 2018.

Narrator
 GM, 34 posts
 PC/NPC Wrangler
 Not God, but Physics
Tue 1 May 2018
at 17:20
Numenera
I'm thinking that the numenera-like Cyphers will act like regular Asset dice, except:

They cost an PP to create/find, whenever they're not a mission reward or something I give you, just like making an Asset last for the entire Scene (instead of single-use).
They may last longer than an Asset (or even a Scene-long one), but only until their die rolls a 1. So "expensive/powerful" Cyphers will also tend to last longer before they're outta juice.

Other Numenera that last longer will need to be bought with XP (like Artifacts) to make them permanent, or will be stationary (like a Discovery), or will not have a sensible use (like Oddities)

They may also be host to SFX, so a Cypher with an SFX costs as if its die rating were one higher, i.e. a d8 Essence Discharging Coil is cheaper than a d10 of the same, but will cost the same as a d6 'Coil with some kind of SFX attached.

I'll include a maximum Cypher limit of 3 for now, I don't see if more or less will be that big a deal without someone paying XP to make a favorite Cypher into a permanent Gear object (and no longer subject to the limit)

Thoughts? Questions? Concerns? I want to iterate on these rules here & bounce it off all my lovely players before I add it to the Rules thread.
Myrddin
 player, 2 posts
 Silver Sidereal
Thu 3 May 2018
at 03:57
Numenera
So does that mean we can just make a Cypher at any time during a scene if we have the PP to spend on it?
Narrator
 GM, 36 posts
 PC/NPC Wrangler
 Not God, but Physics
Thu 3 May 2018
at 12:02
Numenera
More or less, yeah. If you've got the ability to store your creation, or hand it off to someone who does, you can find/make it. If you've got the full amount of Cyphers, you can't make/find yourself a fourth.

Narratively, this is either your character Macgyvering/cobbling something together from the various non-functional parts strewn around (slightly tougher roll, but you have more control over the outcome), or rooting about to find a Cypher (in which case I give one to you at random, but it's generally an easier roll). Circumstances will also change how difficult the roll is.

The limitation on number of Cyphers is meant to reflect their instability, particularly in proximity to other Cyphers. So three is something of a hedge against the odds of bringing two Cyphers that will react dangerously. The limitation on rolling a one also reflects this, as well as the general lack of stable power sources for these gadgets. So if their die rolls a one, something on the associated Cypher breaks or runs out of fuel/power.

I'll probably have a limit on how many Cyphers can be found, built, or fixed in a given Scene, depending on the circumstances, as well. I don't want to adjudicate a bunch of Cypher-making rolls unless the party has gotten themselves to a Cypher-rich environment, like a junkyard or workshop. But deep in a temple or tomb? Rifling through someone's house? Probably not too many parts just lying around.

If you can't tell, I'm still ruminating on these rules questions, so I'm all ears if there's a hypothetical or an idea that might influence my thinking.
Narrator
 GM, 37 posts
 PC/NPC Wrangler
 Not God, but Physics
Tue 8 May 2018
at 12:49
Numenera
Alright, been a couple more days, anybody have questions/comments for the Numenera part of the system, before I go about integrating it into the rules thread?
Oldtimer
 player, 12 posts
Tue 8 May 2018
at 21:02
Numenera
Please hold off a day so I can catch up. I'm just now getting back online and would like to contribute.
Narrator
 GM, 42 posts
 PC/NPC Wrangler
 Not God, but Physics
Tue 8 May 2018
at 21:07
Numenera
In reply to Oldtimer (msg # 29):

Sure thing. Looking forward to hearing your input.
Oldtimer
 player, 17 posts
Thu 10 May 2018
at 18:07
Numenera
Narrator:
I'm thinking that the numenera-like Cyphers will act like regular Asset dice, except:

They cost an PP to create/find, whenever they're not a mission reward or something I give you, just like making an Asset last for the entire Scene (instead of single-use).
They may last longer than an Asset (or even a Scene-long one), but only until their die rolls a 1. So "expensive/powerful" Cyphers will also tend to last longer before they're outta juice.


This makes me wonder why we would ever create an Asset. My counter-proposal: have us spend 2 PP to find a cypher. That way it can persist unlike an Asset without replacing the value of Assets.

quote:
Other Numenera that last longer will need to be bought with XP (like Artifacts) to make them permanent, or will be stationary (like a Discovery), or will not have a sensible use (like Oddities)


That makes a lot of sense.

quote:
I'll include a maximum Cypher limit of 3 for now, I don't see if more or less will be that big a deal without someone paying XP to make a favorite Cypher into a permanent Gear object (and no longer subject to the limit)


This leads to an interesting idea for my character--more later!
Narrator
 GM, 46 posts
 PC/NPC Wrangler
 Not God, but Physics
Thu 10 May 2018
at 18:30
Numenera
In reply to Oldtimer (msg # 31):

Hmmm...

Baseline Assets fall into a couple of areas: Firstly, they're free if they're single-use for the same side that created them or last until the end of the Scene if anyone can use them. If the creator pays a PP, they last until the end of the Scene and may be used by that character and/or their allies.

Cyphers (particularly small ones, d6es) may only last one roll, even if the PP is paid, but the odds are pretty overwhelmingly against this happening, so a particularly strong Cypher may last a long time, and may have SFX attached...

What if the Cyphers stepped down (to a minimum of d6) with each use? So you get a nice, nasty d12, but only for one roll, then it's a d10...then d8... then limping along as a d6, possibly breaking down at any point if it rolls a 1, but also offering some long-term value as an extra d6 (possibly with useful SFX still attached).

It'd make new Cyphers more worth looking into as the old ones wear out faster, though the long-term value is still present.

Thoughts? More expensive Cyphers that are more durable? Cheaper ones that wear out faster? Both? Some other formulation?

Oldtimer does make a good point, but I figured originally the Cyphers would be fairly purpose-limited and somewhat random in function, balancing out the cost/durability. That said, there does seem to be a benefit to re-balancing them a bit (since PCs will have the ability to cobble together Cyphers of their own), though I don't have a "favorite" way to do it at the moment. I figure whatever option we choose will say something about the durability and reliability of Cyphers in our Ninth World of Creation. If we take a multiple-costs route, I'll put together a couple of Limits that will outline the rules for each cost level. So let's keep kicking this one around!!! Nothing's set in stone!
Myrddin
 player, 6 posts
 Silver Sidereal
Thu 10 May 2018
at 18:38
Numenera
I like the idea of them breaking down starting d10 then going to d6, and that some are better quality then others. Also, to keep you guessing a d10 might break down first use, bad roll or something. If its really like Numenera we'll be going though a lot of them.
Oldtimer
 player, 19 posts
Thu 10 May 2018
at 22:23
Numenera
I like paying in tiers:
  • 1 PP gets you a cypher that breaks down the way stated
  • 2 PP gets you a cypher that lasts longer but breaks on a roll of 1

I also have a suggestion, speaking as a Cortex GM: if I as a player want to specify the type of cypher I get, I need to roll for it against the GM. I win, I pick. I lose, I get something random.
Narrator
 GM, 47 posts
 PC/NPC Wrangler
 Not God, but Physics
Fri 11 May 2018
at 02:01
Numenera
In reply to Oldtimer (msg # 34):

I think getting a guaranteed (if random) Cypher even if the roll is lost is a little too much. Scrounging parts on failed roll, maybe, so there's a narrative reason for PCs to always be able to cobble together something, because they're always getting parts and maybe hanging onto old/broken Cyphers to cannibalize.

But I think I see your point. I think I would make a distinction between finding a random Cypher and building a custom one. Same PP costs, but finding a random one will be a bit easier than crafting one, and the environment will also influence the difficulty, so a workshop might have tools and abandoned half-finished projects, decent parts selection and quality, putting together a custom one should be easier than working in a cave with a box of scraps. Ditto finding a random Cypher, except there's also a shot if said cave was actually an ancient ruin, or had adventurers' bodies strewn around.
Narrator
 GM, 52 posts
 PC/NPC Wrangler
 Not God, but Physics
Tue 15 May 2018
at 02:28
Numenera
Added a post to the Rules thread about Numenera and Essence-tech items, using the dual-tier cost suggestion above. Let me know if anyone spots a possible problem or balancing issue, or just has a question, as always.