Martial Arts Style Competition.   Posted by Derrick.Group: 0
Derrick
 GM, 133 posts
Thu 18 Oct 2018
at 13:20
Re: Martial Arts Style Competition
I have updated the opening post to include a ruling made in the character creation thread two weeks ago:

quote:
As a general rule, traits than can be bought in martial arts (with the exception of innate attacks) are valid. The extra options in chapter 4 of martial arts are in play (except for "matter of inches", limiting dodges, Harsh realism for unarmed fighters, and all of Realistic Injury except for new hit locations)


This is not a new rule or ruling, just increased visibility of an existing one.
Derrick
 GM, 164 posts
Thu 1 Nov 2018
at 14:35
Re: Martial Arts Style Competition
Our second fight pitted Baogang, practicing Tia Chi Chuan, against Pingbi a shaolin monk.

The fight was slow, and both sides struggled to overcome the defenses of the others. A few engagements ended indecisively. Pingbi eventually conceded, concluding he was unable to defeat his foe.

This fight has shown grappling by itself is not enough to win this competition: you can't use grappling parries while grappling, and grappling struggles to overwhelm a foe quickly. It also requires Strength to avoid break free attempts, something pingbi lacked.
evileeyore
 GM, 100 posts
Thu 1 Nov 2018
at 19:05
Re: Martial Arts Style Competition
Derrick:
This fight has shown grappling by itself is not enough to win this competition...

This is true.  You also require ST to leverage your grappling.

quote:
...grappling struggles to overwhelm a foe quickly.

This isn't necessarily true.  I have a wrestler in a DF game that rapidly overwhelms her foes... however she has a ST of 30 and simply rips limbs off people.  That's a bit over the top for this competition (and not possible with chargen rules).

Now, for this tourney a more modest ST (say 14-16) is better and would have had Ping maintaining his armlocks and slowly crippling limbs.  But that's because you're using Arm Lock.

If you want a low ST* martial artist to deal out fast incapacitating damage you have two routes:  Luck or better chi (like Pressure Secrets, Lethal Strike/Kick, etc).


* Anything less than 19.  Unless you're using the optional Rounding Damage Dice rules, then a lower ST can hit multiple dice a bit faster.
evileeyore
 GM, 107 posts
Sat 24 Nov 2018
at 04:39
Re: Martial Arts Style Competition
Looking at building a fighter and I had question...

Derrick:
Each player will build a 200 point contender using the character templates from martial arts with a cinematic lens added.

You must of course, pick a style, and it will be an unarmed one.

As a general rule, traits than can be bought in martial arts (with the exception of innate attacks) are valid.

With the above in mind... what about the Optional Traits in a Style?  Are they considered appropriate Advantages buyable with Template Advantage points or can they only be picked up via the Style points?

Followup Question:  Can two styles be taken?  For instance Kachin Bando is often taken after learning Lethwei.


[EDIT]
Never mind.  Had nothing better to do tonight so I built a Hung Gar Kung Fu master...  he's in the Character Building thread for Derrick to approve.
[/EDIT]

This message was last edited by the GM at 08:19, Sat 24 Nov 2018.

Derrick
 GM, 173 posts
Tue 27 Nov 2018
at 16:36
Re: Martial Arts Style Competition
evileeyore:
With the above in mind... what about the Optional Traits in a Style?  Are they considered appropriate Advantages buyable with Template Advantage points or can they only be picked up via the Style points?

Followup Question:  Can two styles be taken?  For instance Kachin Bando is often taken after learning Lethwei.


Optional traits don't have an official status, which is sad, because there are some very nice toys in there (for example, shaolin has combat reflexes). It may be nice to include them at some point, but I don't know that now is the time.

This tournament is about style vs. style, so I'd say stick to one style.
evileeyore
 GM, 138 posts
Wed 5 Dec 2018
at 07:37
Re: Martial Arts Style Competition
What Templates and Lenses is everyone using?

Master Mu Kao is built on Contender and Tough Guy.
Nicole
 player, 62 posts
Wed 5 Dec 2018
at 09:15
Re: Martial Arts Style Competition
In reply to evileeyore (msg # 14):

Contender (Cinematic)
Derrick
 GM, 200 posts
Wed 5 Dec 2018
at 15:03
Re: Martial Arts Style Competition
I check templates when approving characters. Everyone but Mu Kao and Pingbi were contender (cinematic). Pingbi was a Monk (cinematic).
evileeyore
 GM, 139 posts
Wed 5 Dec 2018
at 20:01
Re: Martial Arts Style Competition
Derrick:
I check templates when approving characters. Everyone but Mu Kao and Pingbi were contender (cinematic). Pingbi was a Monk (cinematic).

Then I have to ask, where is Baogang picking up Combat Reflexes from?  It's not on Contender or it's Lenses.
Derrick
 GM, 204 posts
Wed 5 Dec 2018
at 20:28
Re: Martial Arts Style Competition
evileeyore:
Derrick:
I check templates when approving characters. Everyone but Mu Kao and Pingbi were contender (cinematic). Pingbi was a Monk (cinematic).

Then I have to ask, where is Baogang picking up Combat Reflexes from?  It's not on Contender or it's Lenses.


Ugg. I always take less time checking reworks of previously approved characters, and it always bites me. People seem to struggle to follow a template when revising rather than building. And I must have been tired, because there are errors in several places.
evileeyore
 GM, 140 posts
Wed 5 Dec 2018
at 20:32
Re: Martial Arts Style Competition
Derrick:
Ugg. I always take less time checking reworks of previously approved characters, and it always bites me. People seem to struggle to follow a template when revising rather than building. And I must have been tired, because there are errors in several places.

Combat Reflexes just jumped out at me as I struggled (and failed) to find a way to get it on Master Mu.  So few Martial Arts templates offer it.




Second question, Derrick, you keep saying this:

"They start out one yard in from the edge of the stone platform, on opposite sides. the platform is 10 yards across, so they are 8 yards apart."

But if they are 8 yards apart, this means they are standing on the ring's edge, not one yard in.  So are we one yard in (and thus 6 yards apart), or 8 yards apart (and thus on the edge)?

6 yards apart:
https://i.imgur.com/RVB8Rsr.png

8 yards apart:
https://i.imgur.com/ETnjIfM.png
Derrick
 GM, 206 posts
Wed 5 Dec 2018
at 20:39
Re: Martial Arts Style Competition
I'm measuring from center to rim, and from center to center. What are these "Hexagons" you keep talking about?
evileeyore
 GM, 142 posts
Thu 6 Dec 2018
at 00:44
Re: Martial Arts Style Competition
Derrick:
I'm measuring from center to rim, and from center to center. What are these "Hexagons" you keep talking about?

The 'space' where someone is standing?  The area they occupy?  Not being 2 dimensional paper mens?

But sure, you're not using 'hexes', so for those of us that Think In Hexes, it would look like this:

https://i.imgur.com/MOYRgef.png

But you are probably imagining it like this:

https://i.imgur.com/CM0xjNS.png
Derrick
 GM, 207 posts
Thu 6 Dec 2018
at 13:51
Re: Martial Arts Style Competition
Yes, that's essentially the situation.
evileeyore
 GM, 148 posts
Fri 7 Dec 2018
at 05:50
Re: Martial Arts Style Competition
Pulling this conversation out to here:

Derrick:  I'd like a ruling on the +4 to hit from AOA (Determined) being applied to Kiai.  There's arguments back and forth on this one.  But AOA (D) says to 'hit' not to 'skill'.


I've spent a few hours scouring the foruns and the rule books and the only things I can find to support either 'yea' or 'nay' is Martial Arts stating that AOA(D) Feints get the +4.  Which is a nebulous 'can go either way'.

And, Basic states that Evaluate and Move and Attack affect 'skill', not 'to hit'.


My house rulings on it of 'nay' are based on this post years back:

http://forums.sjgames.com/show...9813&postcount=5
evileeyore
 GM, 149 posts
Fri 7 Dec 2018
at 18:32
Re: Martial Arts Style Competition
I also shot Kromm* a pm last night and asked him.  This was his response:

quote:
I'm generally fond of allowing all "all-out" actions to have the option of a bonus. Sacrificing active defenses is kind of huge in GURPS, so it had better be worth the risk.

That said, I'd use +4 for that bonus only for DX-based feats in melee combat. I'd make the bonus +2 for things that "feel" more like use of force in melee combat (e.g., the +2 to ST-based rolls on p. 114 of Martial Arts), simply due to the fact that GURPS uses an implicit "each +2 to hit is worth +1 damage" ratio almost everywhere. And I'd used just +1 for things that "feel" like ranged attacks, which always get just +1 (examples include All-Out Concentrate to use psi abilities, on p. 34 of Dungeon Fantasy 14).

Kiai strikes me as being closest to use of force not all force is ST so I'd go with +2. For stuff like Push, say, I'd use the usual +4, because the skill is DX-based and the roll is an attack roll, to hit with the push.








* That's Sean Punch line editor of GURPS and author a lot of GURPS books for those that don't hang out on the SGJ Gurps forums.
Derrick
 GM, 213 posts
Fri 7 Dec 2018
at 18:53
Re: Martial Arts Style Competition
some form of all-out attack giving Kiai a +2 does sound about right. +4 feels overwhelming, but no bonus also feels a bit wrong. I'm not sure if all out attack (strong) is a better option than determined though.
Derrick
 GM, 214 posts
Fri 7 Dec 2018
at 19:43
Re: Martial Arts Style Competition
Ok, the ruling is that All out Attack (Determined) and All out attack (strong) both give the Kiai user a +2 in the quick contest. Remember the rule of 16!
Derrick
 GM, 245 posts
Mon 7 Jan 2019
at 16:59
Re: Martial Arts Style Competition
Who is still in the competition? and who is waiting on the other guy to attack? Its january, and the holiday break should be over!
evileeyore
 GM, 195 posts
Mon 7 Jan 2019
at 18:14
Re: Martial Arts Style Competition
Derrick:
Who is still in the competition? and who is waiting on the other guy to attack? Its january, and the holiday break should be over!

Master Mu is waiting for Demchug to stop teetering on the edge and get back into the fight.... but to be fair to Nicole she might not realize that Denchug didn't ring out.  If my maths were correct (can you pop in there and verify my calculation?).

This message was last edited by the GM at 18:15, Mon 07 Jan.

Dblade
 player, 203 posts
Mon 7 Jan 2019
at 18:27
Re: Martial Arts Style Competition
Made my post for the Baogang vs Lane fight just now. Sorry for dropping off the face of the Earth a bit.

Also question! If I have two attacks and my first is a committed attack, can I also make a Defensive Attack with my second to mitigate the penalty of the Committed Attack somewhat?
Derrick
 GM, 247 posts
Mon 7 Jan 2019
at 19:02
Re: Martial Arts Style Competition
Dblade:
Made my post for the Baogang vs Lane fight just now. Sorry for dropping off the face of the Earth a bit.

Also question! If I have two attacks and my first is a committed attack, can I also make a Defensive Attack with my second to mitigate the penalty of the Committed Attack somewhat?


No, Defensive attack and committed attack are maneuvers, and you only have one maneuver. In order to attack you need to make a maneuver with "attack" in its name. (Though "Feint" is a weird edge case).
Dblade
 player, 205 posts
Mon 7 Jan 2019
at 19:03
Re: Martial Arts Style Competition
Okay. Can I still do a deceptive committed attack?
Derrick
 GM, 249 posts
Mon 7 Jan 2019
at 19:08
Re: Martial Arts Style Competition
Dblade:
Okay. Can I still do a deceptive committed attack?


Yes, you can. please redo your second attack. As a note, you cannot "Parry" as an attack.
Dblade
 player, 206 posts
Mon 7 Jan 2019
at 19:14
Re: Martial Arts Style Competition
I wasn't parrying as an attack. I was parrying as an Active Defense against Lane's kick, then doing my first attack once that parry succeeded. I haven't made a second attack yet.