Demchug (Smasha) vs. Mu Kao (Hung Gar Kung Fu)   Posted by Derrick.Group: 0
Nicole
 player, 73 posts
Sat 8 Dec 2018
at 13:28
Re: Demchug (Smasha) vs. Mu Kao (Hung Gar Kung Fu)
Demchug rolls with the shin to his face, stumbling back, but the first kick to his chest, while he is able to flow with the blow like water, pushes him another two yards back, causing him to lose his footing and fall on his back.

Nicole rolled 13 using 3d6.  Roll with Blow vs 16 (Kick to Face).
  9 damage to the face reduced to 5.  8 / 13 HP
Nicole rolled 11 using 3d6.  DX vs. 11 (12 -1) to remain standing after knockback.
  Demchug now at range 1 from Mu Kao due to knockback.

Nicole rolled 6 using 3d6.  Roll with Blow vs 16 (Kick to Chest #1).
   11 damage to the chest reduce to 1.  7 / 13 HP
Nicole rolled 15 using 3d6.  DX vs. 10 (12 -2) to remain standing after knockback.
  Demchug now at range 3 from Mu Kao due to knockback (and prone).

I may need an adjudication on whether kick #3 can be made after the knockback from kick #2.  As reference, I'd like to point to page 110 of Martial Arts, describing Combinations a "special case of rapid strike" :
"If a Combination involves an attack with fixed reach, that attack can only work if the preceding ones leave the target in range. In particular, if a close combat strike like a punch or a Knee Strike follows an attack that hurls the victim one or more yards away – most
often a shove, throw, or strike that inflicts knockback – the Combination ends if the attacker can’t step to deliver the short-ranged attack."
Dblade
 player, 154 posts
Sat 8 Dec 2018
at 13:41
Re: Demchug (Smasha) vs. Mu Kao (Hung Gar Kung Fu)
(Doesn't Roll With Blow only flat halve damage? how was 11 reduced to 1?)
evileeyore
 GM, 155 posts
Sat 8 Dec 2018
at 13:57
Re: Demchug (Smasha) vs. Mu Kao (Hung Gar Kung Fu)
Dblade:
(Doesn't Roll With Blow only flat halve damage? how was 11 reduced to 1?)

Crit effect on Roll With Blow.


I've always treated Roll With Blow the same as Retreat*.  Yes, you move, but not before all your foes attacks are dealt with.  But, I'm definitely interested in Derrick's ruling.


[EDIT]
* I've also treated it like a defense, which there is nothing in Martial Arts to suggest that.  Not sure where that idea came from now.
[/EDIT]

This message was last edited by the GM at 19:25, Sat 08 Dec 2018.

Derrick
 GM, 215 posts
Mon 10 Dec 2018
at 15:40
Re: Demchug (Smasha) vs. Mu Kao (Hung Gar Kung Fu)
Ok, we're trying to do this as RAW as possible.

Roll with the blow is not a defense, which makes it ideal as a quasi-defense for those who like all out attacks, as its still legal to use.

The movement evileeyore had chosen an attack that dealt extra knockback, I'd have said the last attack is off the table, no questions asked. On the other hand, Demchug is making some very defensive moves on a maneuver when he should not have any defenses available at all.

This really is a hard call to make, and I can justify saying either that he is not out of reach or that he is out of reach. But I think by RAW, he is out of reach. This is perhaps a loophole in the rules, but it is very much there. A few notes:

  • Demchug was hit in the face, and while not a strong enough blow to count as a major wound, he does still have to roll HT or be stunned.
  • Demchug will suffer the full -4 shock penalty next round.
  • Evil Eeyore may freely reassign his last attack, but will have to roll again for any effects. This is a concession to the play by post format, where stating actions proactively is encouraged. If they are not possible due to unexpected actions (particuarly ones that need a GM ruling), they did not happen and may be reassigned.
  • If this was any situation other than a strict RAW arena game, I'd be houseruling that loophole out of existence.
  • While it looks like demchug pulled a fast one, remember that he rolled a critical. 95% of the time, he'd be at 1 HP right now. Even now, he's at half HP.

evileeyore
 GM, 157 posts
Mon 10 Dec 2018
at 19:42
Re: Demchug (Smasha) vs. Mu Kao (Hung Gar Kung Fu)
Derrick:
Demchug was hit in the face, and while not a strong enough blow to count as a major wound, he does still have to roll HT or be stunned.

I'm not questioning this so much as asking a question:  Where does this come from?  I can find no reason he'd be making a Stun check.

quote:
Demchug will suffer the full -4 shock penalty next round.

Demchug has High Pain Threshold.

quote:
Evil Eeyore may freely reassign his last attack...

Nothign I can do.  Demchug outfoxed Master Mu.  That last kick slices the air Demchug used to be in.

quote:
While it looks like demchug pulled a fast one, remember that he rolled a critical. 95% of the time, he'd be at 1 HP right now. Even now, he's at half HP.

Oh, he pulled fast one, and it's beautiful!  Excellent move.
Derrick
 GM, 220 posts
Mon 10 Dec 2018
at 20:10
Re: Demchug (Smasha) vs. Mu Kao (Hung Gar Kung Fu)
basic 420:

quote:
Whenever you suffer a major wound, and whenever you are struck in the head (skull, face, or eye) or vitals for enough injury to cause a shock penalty (see Shock, p. 419), you must make an immediate HT roll to avoid knockdown and stunning.


On closer investigation, it appears that HPT also makes him immune to the stunning/knockdown of non-major wounds.
Nicole
 player, 74 posts
Mon 10 Dec 2018
at 21:01
Re: Demchug (Smasha) vs. Mu Kao (Hung Gar Kung Fu)
In reply to Derrick (msg # 26):

So... my turn?
Derrick
 GM, 222 posts
Mon 10 Dec 2018
at 21:05
Re: Demchug (Smasha) vs. Mu Kao (Hung Gar Kung Fu)
Yes. Nice Crit.
evileeyore
 GM, 158 posts
Mon 10 Dec 2018
at 22:05
Re: Demchug (Smasha) vs. Mu Kao (Hung Gar Kung Fu)
Derrick:
On closer investigation, it appears that HPT also makes him immune to the stunning/knockdown of non-major wounds.

No, HPT just gives a +3 versus Knockdown and Stunning:

"In addition, you get +3 on all HT rolls to avoid knockdown and stunning – "  High Pain Threshold Advantage write up.


Because you were still struck hard enough to cause shock penalties, you just don't suffer those shock penalties.
Derrick
 GM, 223 posts
Mon 10 Dec 2018
at 22:12
Re: Demchug (Smasha) vs. Mu Kao (Hung Gar Kung Fu)
In reply to evileeyore (msg # 29):

I found a kromm quote saying otherwise...

https://groups.google.com/foru...frp.misc/elUXxHG5nsI

but then I checked the date, and this is very very 3e (1994). I'll look at it again.

Though he has to succeed at a 15, so if he wants to move on, Demchug can roll and we'll pause to sort things out on the 10% that he fails.
Nicole
 player, 75 posts
Tue 11 Dec 2018
at 11:14
Re: Demchug (Smasha) vs. Mu Kao (Hung Gar Kung Fu)
Knocked on his butt, and nearly thrown from the ring by Mu Kao's brutal kicks, Demchug saw no other option but to throw even more kiais Mu Kao's way!

All Out Attack: Determined

Kiai #1

-1 FP 10/13 FP Remaining
Nicole rolled 8 using 3d6.  Kiai vs 17 (16 +2(Detrmn) -1 (Range).

Rule of 16, so that's MoS 8, right?
evileeyore
 GM, 160 posts
Tue 11 Dec 2018
at 13:20
Re: Demchug (Smasha) vs. Mu Kao (Hung Gar Kung Fu)
Master Mu sways unsteadily after Demchug's bellow.


OOC:  08:16, Today: evileeyore rolled  8 using 3d6.  Will 15.  Resist Kiai.  7.
Derrick
 GM, 224 posts
Tue 11 Dec 2018
at 13:58
Re: Demchug (Smasha) vs. Mu Kao (Hung Gar Kung Fu)
Yes, margin of success 8 and 7, so the kia has finally gone through
Nicole
 player, 77 posts
Wed 12 Dec 2018
at 06:53
Re: Demchug (Smasha) vs. Mu Kao (Hung Gar Kung Fu)
Being unable to do anything with that extra attack, Demchug proceeds to use his "step" to... roll at Mu Kao?

Distance 2 to Mu Kao.
evileeyore
 GM, 163 posts
Wed 12 Dec 2018
at 08:00
Re: Demchug (Smasha) vs. Mu Kao (Hung Gar Kung Fu)
Master Mu sways as he does nothing.



OOC:  Do Nothing Maneuver.

02:57, Today: evileeyore rolled 7 using 3d6.  Recover from Mental Stun.  IQ 10.

Nicole
 player, 78 posts
Wed 12 Dec 2018
at 08:10
Re: Demchug (Smasha) vs. Mu Kao (Hung Gar Kung Fu)
Seeing Mu Kao begin to regain his senses... Demchug howls from the ground like a Mongolian Death Worm!

Crawl 1 hex closer.  Distance 1.

All Out Attack: Determined

Kiai #1:

-1 FP: 9/13 FP
Nicole rolled 10 using 3d6.  Kiai vs 16 (16 +2(Detrmn).

MoS 6.
evileeyore
 GM, 165 posts
Wed 12 Dec 2018
at 18:24
Re: Demchug (Smasha) vs. Mu Kao (Hung Gar Kung Fu)
Master Mu pulls himself together and withstands Demchug's chi fueled howl.



OOC:  13:22, Today: evileeyore rolled 6 using 3d6.  Will 15.  Resist Kiai.  MoS 9.
Nicole
 player, 79 posts
Wed 12 Dec 2018
at 21:05
Re: Demchug (Smasha) vs. Mu Kao (Hung Gar Kung Fu)
In reply to evileeyore (msg # 37):

More screechin'!

Attack #2: Kiai

FP -1: 8/13 Remaining

Nicole rolled 9 using 3d6.  Kiai vs 16 (16 +2(Detrmn).

Mos 7.
evileeyore
 GM, 166 posts
Wed 12 Dec 2018
at 21:23
Re: Demchug (Smasha) vs. Mu Kao (Hung Gar Kung Fu)
Master Mu continues to stand resilient against Demchug's chi fueled howls.



OOC:  16:21, Today: evileeyore rolled 6 using 3d6.  Will 15.  Resist Kiai.  MoS 9.

This message was last edited by the GM at 21:24, Wed 12 Dec 2018.

evileeyore
 GM, 167 posts
Wed 12 Dec 2018
at 21:49
Re: Demchug (Smasha) vs. Mu Kao (Hung Gar Kung Fu)
Master Mu's shin lashes out at Demchug's mid-section!



OOC:  All-Out Attack (Double).
16:45, Today: evileeyore rolled 12 using 3d6.  AOA (Double), First Kick.  Karate 16 (18 - 2 Target Prone).
16:46, Today: evileeyore rolled 12 using 2d6+3.  Shin Kick damage, 2d+3 crushing.

Nicole
 player, 80 posts
Wed 12 Dec 2018
at 22:14
Re: Demchug (Smasha) vs. Mu Kao (Hung Gar Kung Fu)
In reply to evileeyore (msg # 40):

Demchug continues to take it!

Nicole rolled 16 using 3d6.  Roll with Blow vs 16 (Kick to Chest?).
12 damage reduced to 6.
  HP 0!

Demchug is pushed back 2 hexes.

(I make the HT roll to stay conscious at the start of my next turn, right?)
evileeyore
 GM, 169 posts
Thu 13 Dec 2018
at 00:38
Re: Demchug (Smasha) vs. Mu Kao (Hung Gar Kung Fu)
Master Mu chases his rolling foe and kicks him again!


OOC:  19:25, Today: evileeyore rolled 8 using 3d6.  AOA (Double), Second Kick.  Karate 16 (18 - 2 Target Prone).
19:25, Today: evileeyore rolled 12 using 2d6+5.  Mighty Blows, 1 FP, Shin Kick damage, 2d+5 crushing.

Master Mu's FP: 9/12


Nicole:
(I make the HT roll to stay conscious at the start of my next turn, right?)

Yes.

Basic pg 419:
0 HP or less – You are in immediate danger of collapse. In addition to the above effects, make a HT roll at the start of your next turn, at -1 per full multiple of HP below zero.


[EDIT]
Hang on Nicole, something just occurred to me, see the new thread Deep Dive Rules Questions.
[/EDIT]

This message was last edited by the GM at 01:06, Thu 13 Dec 2018.

evileeyore
 GM, 175 posts
Fri 14 Dec 2018
at 15:09
Re: Demchug (Smasha) vs. Mu Kao (Hung Gar Kung Fu)
Okay, we're going with the clarified Injury rules.  We need a roll for Consciousness as soon as you hit 0 HP, and again at the start of any turn you wish to not Do Nothing.
Nicole
 player, 82 posts
Mon 17 Dec 2018
at 06:15
Re: Demchug (Smasha) vs. Mu Kao (Hung Gar Kung Fu)
Demchug stays conscious and rolls with the blow (though, I'm pretty sure the knockback sends him flying out of the ring!)

Nicole rolled 6 using 3d6.  HT vs 13 (Roll to remain conscious).
Nicole rolled 12 using 3d6.  Roll with Blow vs 16 (Kick to Chest?).

Knockback 2!

GOOOAAAALLLL~
evileeyore
 GM, 176 posts
Mon 17 Dec 2018
at 06:47
Re: Demchug (Smasha) vs. Mu Kao (Hung Gar Kung Fu)
Master Mu finishes moving forward (1 yard) as Demchug teeters on the edge.



OOC:  According to my maths, Demchug is on the edge, not quite yet ring out:

Turn 1 msg# 2 & 3
Demchug Evaluate, no movement.
Mu Evaluate, no movement.
1yd in each, 8yds spacing.

Turn 2 msg# 4 & 5
Demchug Evaluate, no movement.
Mu Evaluate and Step.
D 1yd in, M 2yds in, 7yds spacing.

Turn 3 msg# 6 & 7
Demchug Evaulate steps back.
Mu Evaluate, no movement.
D 0yds in, M 2yds in, 8yds spacing.

Turn 4 msg# 8 & 9
Demchug Evaluate and Step.
Mu Evaluate, no movement.
D 1yds in, M 2yds in, 7yds spacing.

Turn 5 msg# 10 & 11
Demchug Evaluate and Step.
Mu Evaluate and Step.
D 2yds in, M 3yds in, 5yds spacing.

Turn 6 msg# 12-30
Demchug moves forward 3yds and Kiais twice, Mu steps back 1yd.  3yds spacing.  4yds in.
Mu moves forward 3yds into CC and kicks 3 times.  Causes 3yds Knockback.
D 2yds in, M 6 yards in, 3yds spacing.

Turn 7 msg# 31-35
Demchug Kiais twice.  Steps forward.
Mu Do Nothing.
D 3yds in, M 6 yards in, 2yds spacing.

Turn 8 msg# 36-45
Demchug Kiais twice,  Steps forward, 4yds in. 1yd spacing.
Mu Kicks and chases 2yds and kicks again chasing for 1yd.  Knocking D back 4yds.
D 0yds in, M 8 yds in, 1yds spacing.


Unless I missed some movement/knockback somewhere?

If I'd realized Demchug was that close to ring out, I'd have risked a Flurry and hoped for a third kick opportunity.