Wizard Battles OOC.   Posted by evileeyore.Group: 0
evileeyore
 GM, 228 posts
Mon 18 Feb 2019
at 21:41
Wizard Battles OOC
Creating this thread as the OOC repository for all Wizarding talk, including but not limited too:  Wizard Duels, Wizard battles, and general Wizardly questions.

Note, the following 7 posts have been moved painstakingly, one by one, from the General Chat thread for ease of finding and relevance.
evileeyore
 GM, 229 posts
Mon 18 Feb 2019
at 21:45
Wizard Battles OOC
Posted by Derrik:
Ok, do we want to run wizard duels first, or do we want to see what a wizard and a body guard can do against two bandits?

The Fantasy battle wizard template is probably best boosted by 10 to 25 points, but its a very good base. Though for high power levels the DF wizard is preferable.



[COPIED=evileeyore; DRUNK ON POWER!!!]

This message was last edited by the GM at 21:48, Mon 18 Feb.

evileeyore
 GM, 229 posts
Mon 18 Feb 2019
at 21:45
Wizard Battles OOC
Posted by Dblade:
I don't have the source books, but I'd be SO down for wizard duels!

Alternately, since I do have the martial arts books, I could design and play the non-wizard bodyguard.



[COPIED=evileeyore; DRUNK ON POWER!!!]

This message was last edited by the GM at 21:48, Mon 18 Feb.

evileeyore
 GM, 230 posts
Mon 18 Feb 2019
at 21:46
Wizard Battles OOC
Posted by "It'sa me!":
I could do a pair of banditos.

Note, for Wizard building, DFRPG is the simplest, as it has radically pared the spell list down to "what is useful in a dungeon and not problematic for rulings", but DF is right alongside side it as long as spell picking is keep simple and aimed at "dealing damage, not getting tricksy".

The Fantasy templates, hmm let me look at those again...   ssssss, I'd forgotten how weak they are.



[COPIED=evileeyore; DRUNK ON POWER!!!]

This message was last edited by the GM at 21:49, Mon 18 Feb.

evileeyore
 GM, 231 posts
Mon 18 Feb 2019
at 21:47
Wizard Battles OOC
Posted by Derrik:
evileeyore:
I could do a pair of banditos.

Note, for Wizard building, DFRPG is the simplest, as it has radically pared the spell list down to "what is useful in a dungeon and not problematic for rulings", but DF is right alongside side it as long as spell picking is keep simple and aimed at "dealing damage, not getting tricksy".

The Fantasy templates, hmm let me look at those again...   ssssss, I'd forgotten how weak they are.


Most of the DF wizards additional power is in spell-count and physical Combat abilities. I find the two templates to be about the same in terms of the difficulty of building. Really, the hard part is spell selection. For that I recommend the free "Gurps Magic spell charts"

If we use the DF wizard, I think a 125 point body guard is appropriate, and then we'd need 5 75 point bandits or 3 125 "Henchmen bandits".

For the battle wizard, I think I'd start everyone but the wizard at 75 points, and use 2 bandits.

We could also use the DF henchman apprentice, who is a weaker caster than the battle wizard but better at melee and costs the same.


[COPIED=evileeyore; DRUNK ON POWER!!!]

This message was last edited by the GM at 21:50, Mon 18 Feb.

evileeyore
 GM, 232 posts
Mon 18 Feb 2019
at 21:51
Wizard Battles OOC
Posted by "Another One of mine!":
Derrick:
Most of the DF wizards additional power is in spell-count and physical Combat abilities.

Also capacity to start with all Hard spells at 21 (or other stuff, but spells at 21 is a biggee).

quote:
I find the two templates to be about the same in terms of the difficulty of building.

DF/RPG has more options... I find the more options a Player has the longer they take...

quote:
Really, the hard part is spell selection.

FACT!

quote:
5 75 point bandits or ... at 75 points, and use 2 bandits.

I'll start working up some 75 point banditos.  Are we allowing races from either source (DF or Fantasy)?

quote:
We could also use the DF henchman apprentice, who is a weaker caster than the battle wizard but better at melee and costs the same.

I'd almost advise against that route.  He's as 'weak' as the Fantasy Battle Wizard, but has way more options.



Also, we could open it up for more Wizards or do a straight up Wizard duel...  like the Martial Arts competition.


[COPIED=evileeyore; DRUNK ON POWER!!!]

This message had punctuation tweaked by the GM at 21:52, Mon 18 Feb.

evileeyore
 GM, 233 posts
Mon 18 Feb 2019
at 21:53
Wizard Battles OOC
Posted by Dblade:
I'd be happy to help make a bodyguard like I said. I'd need some help with making a wizard for wizard duels but that does sound awesome.


[COPIED=evileeyore; barely buzzing on POWER.]

This message was last edited by the GM at 21:54, Mon 18 Feb.

evileeyore
 GM, 234 posts
Mon 18 Feb 2019
at 21:55
Wizard Battles OOC
Posted by Derrik:
Lets start with one 125 point battle wizard from fantasy, one body gaurd, and two assailants. Any 75 point Occupational Template from fantasy is valid for the warriors: archer, peasant adventurer, bandit, barbarian, knight, and wardancer are all valid options. The wizard may drop military rank to buy 20 points of spells instead of 10.


[COPIED=evileeyore; returning to sobriety on POWER.]
evileeyore
 GM, 235 posts
Mon 18 Feb 2019
at 22:01
Re: Wizard Battles OOC
Derrik:
For the battle wizard, I think I'd start everyone but the wizard at 75 points, and use 2 bandits.

Sure.

But if anyone wants, I'm happy to run a Wizards Arena Duel, map based on the old TFT Wizard arena maps (but hexless).

I'm happy running 125 point Fantasy Battle Wizards (sans Military Rank, +10 points in spells), or 250 point DF Wizards.  Post if you're interested (and in which one), and pop in and post if you want in on Derrik's Wizard versus Banditos battle as well.


[evileeyore=clearly did not drink enough POWER]
Derrick
 GM, 282 posts
Tue 19 Feb 2019
at 17:42
Re: Wizard Battles OOC
What can be brought into the arena? I'm particularly interested in power stones and armor.
evileeyore
 GM, 237 posts
Wed 20 Feb 2019
at 07:48
Re: Wizard Battles OOC
Derrick:
What can be brought into the arena? I'm particularly interested in power stones and armor.

Whatever you can afford.  We'll go with $1K starting funds and allow the Points For Cash for $500/point, record this on the sheet as "Points For Cash [X] ($$$)".

For Powerstones I'll go with the costs in Magic pg 20.  Can be set into a piece of equipment 'for free', but must be visible to be used.


I'm currently contemplating the map... do we want to go with 1-on-1 duels?  Or more of a "winner takes all" Wizard freeform?  (this will determine how I adjust the map...)


Do we want to go with a tactical hex grid or the looser "coordinate system"?
Derrick
 GM, 283 posts
Thu 21 Feb 2019
at 15:16
Re: Wizard Battles OOC
I prefer 1 on 1 duels, but I'm happy with either setup.

I think power stones are going to matter a LOT in these fights.

If I want to use the shapeshifting spells, where do I get templates and adjusted costs from?
evileeyore
 GM, 239 posts
Thu 21 Feb 2019
at 20:33
Re: Wizard Battles OOC
Derrick:
If I want to use the shapeshifting spells, where do I get templates and adjusted costs from?

I'll be using DF 5 Allies... and the spell costs from there where appropriate (I'll have to figure some out, but most will be in the 6-12 FP range)...

Right now I propose:
Shapeshifting*/Summoning† Normal:
Anaconda, Bat, Bear, Boar, Cat, Chimp, Giant Eagle, Gorilla, Hound, Hawk, Insect Swarm, Kangaroo, Kraken, Macaw, Owl, Panther, Rabbit, Rat, Shark, Stallion, Viper, Wolf, Wolverine.  (if there is an animal you wan that is not on this list we can talk...)

Shapeshifting/Summoning Hybrid:
Chimera, Griffon, Hydra, Manticore.  (Yes I'll work up the templates, probably just gonna pull them from Fantasy)

Shapeshifting/Summoning Spirit‡:
Nature Spirit, Elemental.

Summoning Planar:
W.I.P. but see below...



*  I'm changing the prerequisites of Shapeshifting from "Magery 1, and six of any other spells" to "(Animal/Hybrid/Elemental [Type]/Spirit) Control, and a minimum of 6 spells."

Control Spirit is the Loyalty spell with a refluff and the prereq of "Turn Spirit".

The following Spirit spells have had a prereq shift:
Summon Spirit; Prerequisites: Magery 2, Sense Spirit, and Death Vision.
Turn Spirit; Prerequisites: Fear and Summon Spirit.


†  The Arena is enchanted such that all Summons can arrive, regardless of type, a Gate appears at the point of the Summons and remains until the Summoned entity arrives.  Yes, this gate can be dispelled as per normal.  All Summons take 3d seconds to arrive.

Beast Summoning is changed as follows:
(Beast) Summoning
Calls one creature of Named type (anything under IQ 6). Range does not matter for this spell. If the spell is cast successfully, the caster knows the location of the closest creature of the type, and how long it will take for that creature to come to him. It moves toward the caster as fast as it can, until the spell ends or the animal can see the
caster. It obeys direct orders or acts in the caster's best interests (IQ 5 roll) until the spell ends.  If the caster attacks the creature the spell is broken.
Cost: 3 to cast. 2 to maintain.  For multiple animals: double cost for 1d extra animals, triple for 2d, quadruple for 3d, etc.
Prerequisite: (Animal) Control.

(Hybrid) Summoning
As per Beast Summoning and:
Cost: 6 to cast. 3 to maintain.  No summoning multiples.
Prerequisite: (Hybrid) Control.


‡  All Spirits, while incorporeal, are forced to materialize in the arena because of the Arena's "woogy mojo".  They have Injury Tolerance (Diffuse) instead of Insubstantiality.

Control Spirit is the Loyalty spell with a refluff and the prereq of "Turn Spirit".

The following Spirit spells have had a prereq shift:
Summon Spirit; Prerequisites: Magery 2, Sense Spirit, and Death Vision.
Turn Spirit; Prerequisites: Fear and Summon Spirit.




I'm thinking about changing Planar Summons to this:
Planar Summons (Type)
Cost: 1 point per 10 character points used to build the summoned entity. Minimum energy cost is 10 (although this will not always summon a 100-point being). The GM pre-determines* the capabilities of all summoned creatures. Cannot be maintained.
Time to cast: Equal to cost, in seconds.

* By which I mean if you want Planar Summons Demons, I'll work up some demons in advance of the game.  The spell Summon Demons is removed for space keeping efficiency...

This makes it  useful in an Arena, but still makes it slightly less desirable than Beast Summoning or the Creates, rather than completely undesirable and nigh useless...
Derrick
 GM, 300 posts
Mon 8 Apr 2019
at 15:21
Re: Wizard Battles OOC
Ok, doing some thinking out loud here while I build my wizard:

Powerstones are going to be king here. I can get a 4 energy power-stone for 1 point of cash, and without that I only have 7 points of FP to cast with. If power stones must simply be seen to be used, could I wear 8 as a row of rings? do I have to touch them? And I assume they recharge before battle?

The shapechange spell only requires that you have 6 other spells learned, so everyone could grab one just in case. I'm not positive how you get out of it: I assume you can end it at anytime, but I can't see where that's indicated. It also takes 3 seconds to cast, which is not a great speed.

Right now my plan A is to turn invisible, turn into a gorilla, and then beat my opponents with a stick, Its a strong plan, but its also a slow one, with both spells taking 3 seconds to cast. I'm looking for faster options that slow down an opponent but can take effect in one second.

This message was last edited by the GM at 15:22, Mon 08 Apr.

evileeyore
 GM, 257 posts
Mon 8 Apr 2019
at 17:54
Re: Wizard Battles OOC
Derrick:
If power stones must simply be seen to be used, could I wear 8 as a row of rings?

The "Must be seen" prohibition is to curtail "My powerstone is in my tongue ring" level of nonsense.  In other words, your Powerstones must be visible and attackable by other PCs.  So yes, eight set into rings is fine, this way an enemy could lop off your hand and have access to your stones, or attack them (at -10) outright to try to deprive you of them.

quote:
do I have to touch them?

The "Powerstone" is the item (so the whole ring counts as the 'stone').  Only in particularly large items (like 6 foot staves and the like) are 'stones' treated as 'settings' that are 'separate' but still contiguous with the item.  It must be worn on or held by you to be used.  So belts are kosher (even if outside clothing), a staff is kosher, a intricately woven tabard over your armor, whatever.

quote:
And I assume they recharge before battle?

Powerstones enter battle fully charged.

quote:
The shapechange spell only requires that you have 6 other spells learned, so everyone could grab one just in case.

Note in post #13 above, Shapeshifting's prereqs are changed for the "Wizard Duel Arena Battles"*.  If you want to Shapeshift, you have to go a little more hard core into Animal, Elemental, etc spells.



* Mostly because I never liked that any Wizard could just learn "Shapeshift Other" so easily... also I expanded it for most diverse shapeshifting options...

quote:
I'm not positive how you get out of it: I assume you can end it at anytime, but I can't see where that's indicated.

As per all spells with a Duration, you can end it early either by declaring a shorter Duration when you cast it (and then not maintaining it past that Duration) or by spending 1 FP as a "free action" to end it on your turn.  See Magic pg 10 "Canceling Spells" sidebox.

quote:
It also takes 3 seconds to cast, which is not a great speed.

The Arena is not a 'flat featureless plane'.  It's based on the Arena from TFT, so... hang on I'll throw a map into the map tab here...

See Map A.

Yellow hexes are Wizard starting hexs, they are Well Lit (the light projects into the immediate neighboring megahexes for -3 darkness, a further -3 for each megahex beyond.  The two 'corner' megahexes are always completely dark, the two 'middle corridor' megahexes might be dark if there are pillars in the right places).  Light blue hexes will all be flat, but may be higher or lower than neighboring hexes, but no more than a two feet elevation difference, easily stepped up or down from by an SM 0 figure, no one of these will be higher or lower than 6 feet relative to the yellow hexes.  Green hexes may be Pits (20 feet deep) or Pillars (20 feet high).  There is an absolute arena ceiling of 40 feet.

quote:
Right now my plan A is to turn invisible, turn into a gorilla, and then beat my opponents with a stick, Its a strong plan, but its also a slow one, with both spells taking 3 seconds to cast. I'm looking for faster options that slow down an opponent but can take effect in one second.

Very stronk... unless your opponent flies, or is likewise invisible.

This message was last edited by the GM at 17:56, Mon 08 Apr.

evileeyore
 GM, 274 posts
Fri 26 Jul 2019
at 05:28
Re: Wizard Battles OOC
Map A has been redrawn, the one I was using from TFT Wizards was canted at a weird angle, and instead of rotating my megahex counters I just redrew it...

The numbers in the hexes of the Duel Maps (see Map B for reference):  If the number is above the Megahex Letter, it is Relative Elevation compared to the Portal Hexes (elevated or lowered hexes are also color coded for convenience).  If it is below the Megahex Letter, it is absolute Light Level.  Refer to Basic pg 394 for Visibility penalties.

Elevation changes despite being 2ft/yard are sloped enough to be easy to cross without penalty.

Pillars and Pits.  The walls and pathways are enchanted earth and stone, held in place by the will of the Mage Judges.  Thus the Pillars and Pits are relatively easy to climb into or out of, despite being nearly shear surfaces.  Climbing roll at DX, may scale up or down at 1ft/sec.  The Pits and Pathways do count as hard ground for falls though...

Your starting Portal Hex is also your Summoning Circle and where all Summoned beings will appear despite your location when you cast a Summons.


I might not post again until late Sunday, I work a 12 hour shift tomorrow and I made the mistake of being up to 2 am redrawing mps and typing all this out at the last minute despite having to be up for work at 6 am...
evileeyore
 GM, 276 posts
Fri 26 Jul 2019
at 05:32
Re: Wizard Battles OOC
Movement notation:

For example, Segus begins in A0.  If he were to move southwest 3 hexes Derrick would note "Sergus moves from A0 to B3", this wold place Sergus immediately next to the pillar in Megahex G.
VIVIT
 player, 8 posts
Thu 15 Aug 2019
at 22:05
Re: Wizard Battles OOC
I've rolled for initiative and am waiting for Derrick to do the same. Should we prod him?