Where we test out Syntactic magic in fights against each other.

We need a template, and a starting scenario.

I'm thinking the point value ought to be rather high: 300 points or so. I don't think we have a template sitting around. Things we should consider:

Should we have Energy reserves, and if so, how much? 10 ER each?

Are we using verb-nouns or are we using realms? If realms, how are we dividing up the universe?

What is our view on just beating the crap out of the other guy with a piece of iron?

Well, lets try different scenarios.

1) Each mage has 17 IQ
2) Realm based magic (for power level) using that realm's 'skill' to cast spells (complexity)
->advantage for raw power, skill for finesse
3) 1x Level 4 Realm
   2x Level 3 Realm
   4x level 1-2 Realms

4) Realms are a 'conceptual realm', let's not restrict these. So for example "Forces" could be one, or "storm" could be one. Or "life" or "body". Just be creative.

5) Each wizard has an energy reserve of 20ER + HT

6) 150 additional CPs to flesh out the character, and set the skill level, other advantages that are not 'directly' magic related (i.e. you can't take Regeneration(Magical Mana)

Lets try to make a fleshed out character rather than an optimised killing machine and see how magic pairs off against itself.

7) I'd be prepared to use wands/staffs as 'foci', these would have to be bought somehow with points, but may instil a +1-10 bonus on skill, usually they're aspected though. Wands will be done on a case by case basis.

8) I would argue that 'instant casting' of any spell (1 round, or blocking) would be -8 for 1 round -10 for instant



Scenarios include:

 - 1 mage vs 1 mage
 - 1-3 mages vs a horde (how long can you survive)



My goal is to have them as relatively high level wizards. In my game there are aspects to the level of magery. Studied academic magic (traditional magic system), syntactic system (RPM) (sorcerer type stuff) and then when you attain arch-mage levels you get the Realm based, which is pretty epic in scope.

The master and grandmaster/arch mages of my world, are actually extraordinarily powerful just because of the scope and liberty they have with magic. This game is aimed at putting two of that level at odds and making it both interesting, cinematic and not a "1 trick wins all fights".

Re: Beating up with Iron.

Consider the following:

 - realm 4 Air
 - realm 3 Prime(metamagic)/ 3 body
 - bleh rest don't matter.
 - Skill 25 (with wand)

 - a squad of armed heavy infantry charge at the wizard.

 - he defends himself, noting that they have a good 10-15 yards to run at him, giving him chance to spend a few rounds casting.

 - -8 for 1 round cast. He's using forces level 4 (vulgar and gross manipulation) -4 ER
 - rolls skill 17 to force a huge gust of wind at the oncoming enemy.
 - rolls 10 (pass by 7), and causes a hurricane level force to be blasted at the enemy force, launching them away from him.

Note: 1 single blast is a low complexity spell, so no additional modifiers to the skill level. If he wanted to only affect one in every 2 men, it might add another penalty, if he wanted to make it a whirlwind, it might add another -1/-2 or something.


The 'fine details' have to be managed by GM/player in a negotiation of cost.



Also, as noted, the magic is 'supposed' to be powerful and quite epic in its scope.

Ok, so each realm is probably sized for 30 points, about the size of a college of magic. I'm not quite sure what realm levels you're using in this case: could you explain what each level can do? I'm not seeing them in the thaumatology book.

Looking at the general point values:
140 points in IQ,
90 or so points in ER (or does the +HT mean we're just remembering FP?)
150 points of standard character

for a total of 380. does that sound right? do you mind if we raise it to 400?


If you wish, we can set the wizard to three tests:

1) a duel with another wizard over access to a ruined tower on a hill. The hill has one path to the top. The ruined tower has a library spread over four levels, out of seven total (two underground). The tower contains a book that both wizards seek. Get the book, win the encounter
2) an attack from a Monster Hunters warrior (400 points). Fight breaks out in a palace during a royal ball.
3) Fend off 20 warriors with ST 11 DX 11 IQ 10 HT 10, one main weapon at 14, and others at 12. Fight starts with soldiers at either end of a 30 yard narrow city street with the wizard in the middle. more guards may be called in until the wizard hides or escapes the city successfully.

Magic would be broken down into 10pts per level up to 6.

1 - 3 The mage has understood the basic principles of his tradition. He can use the simplest types of magick, and has reached some self-knowledge. To advance further, he must overcome himself more and more. Many mages change demeanours during their seeking towards the next levels. Many mages never manage to rise above this level, and remain as lesser mages.

4 - 5 The mage apparently masters the external world. Many mages think they have reached a deep understanding of themselves. Most mages on this level have risen far into the ranks of their tradition. The seeking has become very hard, as the mage must not only overcome the flaws of his nature (note the elegant bind here: if the mage roleplays his nature, complete with flaws, he will be awarded more willpower and experience. But if he tries to overcome his flaws, he will not gain this. It is tempting to step off the path.) To raise Arete on this level, the quests can take years.


5 - 6 The mage has mastered his tradition (maybe not in knowledge, but in understanding). He is powerful, and apparently at the height of his power. Many mages on this level are leaders of their traditions. But he will begin to see the flaws, inconsistencies and outright errors of his tradition too. To continue the path, he must take the painful step away from his tradition, losing the support and help it once gave. This may take a lifetime. Many mages never do this, and remain here, trying to lead their traditions. This is probably as far as roleplaying is possible, the later levels are too hard to imagine.

Anything past 6 is perhaps theoretical

6 - 7 The mage has left his tradition, and probably changed his nature as well. These mages are outside the protection and support of the traditions, and their vision is almost impossible to understand even for other mages. Most retreat into the Umbra to escape the Ascension War. Some mages try to find the Oracles to perfect their magick. Others try to find themselves. To continue, the mage must transcend his limited view of the world and/or himself, experiencing a second Awakening. This can take several centuries to do. Many mages prefer to remain on this level, finding pleasure in their power or self-knowledge. 7 - 8 This is the level of the Oracles. They have realized that their old ideas about the spheres work was just another arbitrary way to look at reality. They are able to freely choose they way they like to see magick; in the same way a lesser mage can change reality by viewing it in an arbitrary way, an Oracle can change the way they (or anybody else) see magick. Thus they transcend spheric magick, being able to use magick in any way they want. this can take thousands of years. Many Oracles prefer to remain Oracles, but a few tries to understand the world even further. 9 - 10 These levels are so high that maybe only the most advanced Oracles can even begin


 A lot of the 'power level' comes from Power levels in Mage:The Ascension in World of Darkness.

1 -> Sense and awareness
2 -> minor manipulation
3 -> manipulation
4 -> gross/strong manipulation, minor creation
5 -> major creation
6 -> mastery

I'm willing to go with any number of points, really. I would imagine that characters at the 4-6 level would hit the 300+ mark in terms of character points anyway.

1) Yes, that sounds perfect

2) All good too, though the setting would be fantasy in my game world, rather than contemporary. Though, the warrior could be modified. I would expect that the Mage would win this, however, I'd find it hard to build a 400pt warrior that was not somehow 'supernaturally enhanced'. Though there are 'agents' of the mages that are trained for war/battle/more physical aspects of the order. This could be an example of that - though these two would have magic abilities.

3) Yes, that's fine too. I expect here the mage would also win.


These all sound great.

Oh, my point count didn't include the realm magic advantages. So we're looking at another:

40 points for 1 level 4
60 points for 2 level 3's
40 points for 2 level 2's
20 points for 2 level 1's

that's a total of 160 points, which makes the base mage a 540 point character, not a 380 point character.

Lets start making the characters! I'll be making a mage and the MH warrior.

Are illusion and gates (as in dimensional gates) valid categories?

I would suggest that 'Correspondance' be a realm. and that's about Teleporting, ad moving around. If you could have something like

level 4+ of an element and at least level 3 in correspondence, then you could prob make a gate to an elemental plane of some kind.

Ribald is considered to be an archmage of some distinction, and has had many tales told about  him. Many people suggest that all of the frequent storms affronting the northern terrirtories are his doing, whether in his own experiments or just the weather being the purest manifest of his will and state of mind.

His position within the order, is Primarch of the 8th order and acts as second in command to the grandmaster that oversees the 8th's operations. To date there has been no known magical practitioner more adept at controlling nature's raw power.

Of particular note was his defence of Thelos city against an invasion fleet of nearly a thousand troop ships, where he conjured a hurricane so large that the fleet was almost eradicated to a ship.

Personally, the man reveals a calm demeanour who is quick witted, quick to humour and charming in a most disarming way. Though some say that when his fury is roused, it's perhaps more intimidating than the front of an incoming  thundercloud.


Name: Ribald Periwinkle
Role: Archmage of the Storm, Stormlord

ST: 10
DX: 12
IQ: 17
HT: 14

Advantages:

Attractive [4]
Charisma [5]
Reputation 4 [20] (StormLOrd)
RAnk 7 [35] // Archmage, 2nd in command of 8th Order.

Magic:
 Magery 5 [55] (// is it worth having this?, like a Talent for 'magic', also might say 'what is the highest level one can attain in realm)
 Realm - 4 Storms/Weather
 Realm - 3 Meta/Prime (Meta-magic)
 Realm - 3 Matter
 Realm - 2 Body
 Realm - 1 Correspondance
 Realm - 1 Mind

Combat Reflexes [15]


Skills: // I think [20] points in a single skill for an archmagi/grandmaster might actually be quite low, but I guess it's spread a lot of points over a lot of realms, so maybe within the possiblity

Thaumatology (VH/IQ) [20] - 17+4 +5 = 26

Realm (Storm) (VH/Will) [20] - 26
Realm (Prime) (VH/Will) [16] - 25
Realm (Matter) (VH/Will) [16] - 25
Realm (Bod) (VH/Will) [12] - 24
Realm (Correspondance) [4] - 22
Realm (Mind)           [4] - 22

Riding [8] - 14
Fast-talk [4] - 20
Indimidation [4] - 18
Public Affairs [2] - 18
Soldier [1] - 16
Tactics [1] - 15
Strategy [1] - 15

Knife [2] - 13
Staff [2] - 12

Innate Attack(Projectile) [12] - 16


Items:

Wand: - Made from shipwrecked Yew, cored with quicksilver and base-tipped with dragonscale (silver).

Grants +3 bonus to spells, +5 to spells involving Storms.

Is an 'artefact' known as "Stormweaver".



OOC: This is a first draft of the character. The other mage doesn't have to be the same at all, you can up or lower some skills depending on what you think he might have. I appreciate the character is very powerful, but that is what we're going for here.

I didn't fully 'flesh out' all his skills or backstory, but this gives a good template , I think.
This message was last updated by the player at 16:55, Wed 22 Apr 2020.

Did you give up already?

I'd take suggestions, if you think it's a little overboard.

no, I'm working on it. I might run the warriors first.

I'm thinking my contender will have light as a major realm (for illusions mostly). I'm debating if your version of correspondence is worth it.

I might work up the warrior first

Umm... thats a 268 points of non-magical character, not counting the magery. How are you counting to 150?

I've got the character, and I've got a slightly cheaper build than yours for him.

KRD

Correspondance 4
Mind 3
Light 3
Prime 2
Sound 2
Air 1
Earth 1

KRD is a worldwalker, a member of an order dedicated to exploring the world in all of its glory. His top three realms are dedicated to this: Mind to read and speak languages, Correspondance to travel all over the world, and Light to blend his appearance with that of the natives. He loves to see the stories and cusine of places all over the world.

KRD varies his name to fit the culture he is in, but always keeps the three core letters, or local approximations of them.

I had these as a start for his non-magical skills:

Diplomacy [2]
Fast talk [2]
Acting [2]
Saviore-Faire [2]
Public Speaking [1]
Carousing [1]
Disguise [2]
Streetwise [2]
Pyschology [2]
Merchant [2]
Artist (light) [4]

connisour (theater) [4]
connisour (cusine) [2]
Dancing [2]
area knowledge (Alethkar) [1]
area knowledge (Rohan) [1]
area knowledge (Ixalan) [1]

Current Affairs [2]

Naturalist [4]
Hiking [1]
Riding [1]

Honestly? I just really ignored the point costs of things that weren't relevant to conflict.
So rank, in any real effect (for the purposes of the duel) will not be useful at all. In a real-world context it  might add some bonus to intimidation, perhaps?


so far the build looks good. He would also (unless from another kingdom) be part of the order too, perhaps a different division though.

So far it looks good - the magical realms will be interesting. I particularly like 'Artist' for creating awesome illusions :)

So what is the actual point cost we're using for the "non-magic" part? You're still far over.

These characters are looking much closer to 700 points than to 400. Explains why you didn't think the 400 point warrior at close quarters would be much of a threat.

Well that may be so, but none of the 'extra' points actually make a difference in the fight.

Like having an extra 35 points in Rank, ultimately are just 'character flavour' and could just as well be 0 points.

The skills and the non-flavour advantages/stats come to around 500. Which I think is fine. Rank, attractiveness/charisma/reputation/etc. are all just essentially irrelevant.

As long as we keep the 'rough' skill of the character at magic the same, I am pretty much open to anything else. Let him be a bit stronger, or healthier, or more dextrous. I'd rather have a flavoured character than 2 identical mages.

I think in short, it doesn't matter so much. We could try another scenario where it's the "same mage" fighting a mirror version of himself (perhals with different spheres) but for now, I just would like to try something 'roughly equal in power' (in concept rather than precise numbers)

If you need a precise number. Say aim for 510 points + add anything that is 'flavourful' for free.

I made our "courtly challenger"

He's based on the MH warrior, though the wildcard skill has been broken up to give him greater skill with his main weapon. He's built to tackle big monsters and mages. He's not the brighest bulb, and he's something of an arrogant prick

Yarrilan Beast-Bane

ST 15 [50]
DX 15 [100]
IQ 10 [0]
HT 14 [40]

HP 20 [30]
Will 14 [20]
Per 12 [10]
FP 14 [0]

Combat Reflexes [15]
High Pain Threshold [15]
Weapon Master (All Weapons) [45]
Magic Resistance 5 [10]
Ambidexterity [5]
Destiny 3 [15]
Fit [5]
weapon bond (family sword)

Soldier Talent 1 [5]

OPH (will not stand an insult) [-5]
Overconfidence [-5]
Sense of Duty (Noble House) [-5]
Gullible [-5]
Code of Honor (Knightly) [-5]
Insomniac (mild) [-10]
Bully [-5]

broadsword - 22 [28]
shield - 16 [2]
spear - 15 [2]
Fast Draw (sword) - 17 [4]
knife - 16 [2]
thrown weapon (knife) -16 [2]
fast draw (knife) -16 [2]
Polearm -15 [2]
two handed Sword - 16 [4]

Karate -15 [4]
Judo -15 [4]
Bow - 16 [4]
crossbow -16 [2]

Physiology (Winged Monsters) -10 [4]
Thaumatology - 9 [4]
Occultism - 11 [4]

First Aid -11 [2]
Parry Missile Weapons -15 [4]
Blind Fighting -11 [4]

Climbing -15 [2]
Stealth - 15 [2]
Soldier - 12 [4]
Tactics -11 [4]
Fast-Draw (arrow) -16 [2]

He's a beast!
 I like it.

How is the polished version of Ribald Periwinkle coming? with disads and proper accounting? I'd like a version that marks what's considered "Fluff" and has a firm point total.

I'll get it finished later today

I included the cost of everything 'pertinent to the fight' and it comes to 517cps - which actually is kind of inline what you'd expect a character of this level to be. I think in a real game world he'd probably have another 100cps or so tied up in things like 'contacts' 'wealth' 'etc' but these things can be omitted because he's more of a 'free and liberal roamer' than someone who would set up shop in a mage tower collecting wealth and things. So it doesn't matter. So here he is, finished.


Ribald is considered to be an archmage of some distinction, and has had many tales told about  him.
 Many people suggest that all of the frequent storms affronting the northern terrirtories are his doing, whether in his own experiments or just the weather being the purest manifest of his will and state of mind.

His position within the order, is Primarch of the 8th order and acts as second in command to the grandmaster that oversees the 8th's operations.
 To date there has been no known magical practitioner more adept at controlling nature's raw power.

Of particular note was his defence of Thelos city against an invasion fleet of nearly a thousand troop ships, where he conjured a hurricane so large that the fleet was almost eradicated to a ship.

Personally, the man reveals a calm demeanour who is quick witted, quick to humour and charming in a most disarming way.
 Though some say that when his fury is roused, it's perhaps more intimidating than the front of an incoming  thundercloud.


Name: Ribald Periwinkle
Role: Archmage of the Storm, Stormlord

total cps: 40+140 + 40 + 36 + 15 + 130 + 40+32+12+8+12+8+4 = 517
ST: 10
DX: 12
IQ: 17
HT: 14

Advantages:

Attractive [4]
Charisma [5]
Reputation 4 [20] (StormLOrd)
RAnk 7 [35] // Archmage, 2nd in command of 8th Order.
ER 15 [36](magic only -20%)

Magic:
  Magery 5 [55] (// is it worth having this?, like a Talent for 'magic',
 also might say 'what is the highest level one can attain in realm)
 Realm - 4 Storms/Weather
 Realm - 3 Meta/Prime (Meta-magic)
 Realm - 3 Matter
 Realm - 2 Body
 Realm - 1 Correspondance
 Realm - 1 Mind

Combat Reflexes [15]


Skills: // I think [20] points in a single skill for an archmagi/grandmaster might actually be quite low,
but I guess it's spread a lot of points over a lot of realms, so maybe within the possiblity
Skills
Thaumatology (VH/IQ) [20] - 17+4 +5 = 26
history [1] - 16
Area Knowledge(current kingdom) [1] - 17

Realm (Storm) (VH/Will) [20] - 26
Realm (Prime) (VH/Will) [16] - 25
Realm (Matter) (VH/Will) [16] - 25
Realm (Body) (VH/Will) [12] - 24
Realm (Correspondance) [4] - 22
Realm (Mind)           [4] - 22
Innate Attack(Projectile) [12] - 16
Innate Attack(Beam) [8]   - 15


Riding [8] - 14
Fast-talk [4] - 20
Diplomacy [1] - 15
Indimidation [4] - 18
Current Affairs [2] - 18
Soldier [1] - 16
Tactics [1] - 15
Strategy [1] - 15
Housekeeping [1] -17
Research [4] - 18
Leadership [2] - 17
S.F(Magical) [1] - 18
Teaching [1] - 17
first-aid [1] - 17

Knife [2] - 13
Staff [2] - 12




Items:

Wand: - Made from shipwrecked Yew, cored with quicksilver and base-tipped with dragonscale (silver).

Grants +3 bonus to spells, +5 to spells involving Storms.

Is an 'artefact' known as "Stormweaver".


Wearing:
 - Leather trousers and a cotton jerkin, well made with full heavy cape/cloak.
 - Leather tunic (light leather armour) well adorned (DR2)
 - Wand
 - Full length Staff (+2 to reactions)



OOC: This is a first draft of the character. The other mage doesn't have to be the same at all, you can up or lower some skills depending on what you think he might have. I appreciate the character is very powerful, but that is what we're going for here.

I didn't fully 'flesh out' all his skills or backstory, but this gives a good template , I think.
This message was last edited by the player at 13:32, Thu 23 Apr 2020.