Cowboys and Indians.   Posted by Derrick.Group: 0
evileeyore
 GM, 190 posts
Fri 28 Dec 2018
at 09:33
Re: Cowboys and Indians
No.  You asked and no one responded.
Mari
 player, 56 posts
Fri 28 Dec 2018
at 11:39
Re: Cowboys and Indians
Then I'm asking again. ;-)
Vulco1
 player, 103 posts
Fri 28 Dec 2018
at 15:31
Re: Cowboys and Indians
I'm good defending the wagon train.  That's what I was envisioning.
Derrick
 GM, 239 posts
Fri 28 Dec 2018
at 16:12
Re: Cowboys and Indians
A proper wagon "Train" has a lot more complications than the scenario I was envisioning. It has a lot more civilian targets, an typically more defenders. It also makes it a lot easier for the natives to retreat and come back with a better advantage.

I favor an offensive by the cowpokes. They've located a war party, and they want to force an engagement during the day when they have the advantage. If this is revenge for the first fight, that works as well.

Anyone have thoughts on that scenario?
Mari
 player, 57 posts
Fri 28 Dec 2018
at 17:39
Re: Cowboys and Indians
A wagon train can consist of two wagons...

If we do the Cowboy offensive, their mobility should not be as good as the Comanche's because if it is, it would be too easy to keep their distance to the Comanche while still shooting.
Derrick
 GM, 242 posts
Mon 31 Dec 2018
at 15:09
Re: Cowboys and Indians
Mari:
A wagon train can consist of two wagons...

If we do the Cowboy offensive, their mobility should not be as good as the Comanche's because if it is, it would be too easy to keep their distance to the Comanche while still shooting.


two wagons and 6 cowboys isn't a wagon train, its a cattle-roundup.

I'd like to see cowboys with horses. I'd also like to count ammo. If the Comanche can break contact with the cowboys, that probably counts as a victory, because they can come back and attack at night.
evileeyore
 GM, 191 posts
Mon 31 Dec 2018
at 20:30
Re: Cowboys and Indians
Derrick:
two wagons and 6 cowboys isn't a wagon train, its a cattle-roundup.

Or a cattle drive where a small number (6) of cowpokes ride off to drive away a raiding force (and thus would of course need to deal enough punishment to make a return of the Comanches unlikely).

quote:
I'd also like to count ammo.

So how many reloads do we get to start with?  And is there an "ammo crate" on the wagons?

quote:
If the Comanche can break contact with the cowboys...

So they've already won?  Do they need to escape with a specific number (like more than half)?
Derrick
 GM, 243 posts
Mon 31 Dec 2018
at 21:15
Re: Cowboys and Indians
evileeyore:
Derrick:
two wagons and 6 cowboys isn't a wagon train, its a cattle-roundup.

Or a cattle drive where a small number (6) of cowpokes ride off to drive away a raiding force (and thus would of course need to deal enough punishment to make a return of the Comanches unlikely).

quote:
I'd also like to count ammo.

So how many reloads do we get to start with?  And is there an "ammo crate" on the wagons?

quote:
If the Comanche can break contact with the cowboys...

So they've already won?  Do they need to escape with a specific number (like more than half)?


Those are some great questions.

When I say "Break Contact" I probably mean "Leave the scene", and we're probably using basic chase rules, which would give a slight advantage to the folks with higher riding and wilderness skills.

I have to admit I was thinking of "Win" or "Loose" in less binary terms. There is a continuum of casualties that affect how badly each side has "won" or "lost". The basic scenario is the cowpokes want revenge, and they've got the Comanche at a disadvantage. What do they do with it? If we want numbers, I suppose we can come up with some. failing to drop the 4 to 1 numbers to 3 to 1 numbers is certainly a defeat, and as you stated, halving their numbers is probably a better option.

Number of reloads... I'm leaning against the "Ammo Box" model. Carry your bullets. I'm trying to come up with a method for limiting the weight and cost of the ammunition. $500 and for 800 shots weighing 30 lbs is too much for a single character. Given that WW1 soldiers went into battle with 150 rounds, that's probably the upper limit for the cow-pokes.

Counting bullets and reloads is going to be pivotal to this game, I think. There are some rapidly firing weapons, but once you've emptied your Winchester, its 2 seconds to reload each bullet. I very much think the Comanche have a chance if they time things correctly.
Mari
 player, 58 posts
Mon 31 Dec 2018
at 21:19
Re: Cowboys and Indians
I thought we keep it as simple as possible, that's why I suggested a Comanche charge against stationary Cowboys. The only thing to keep track of would be the distance between the groups (and ammo of course, but that would be needed in any scenario).

If you want to go with a more detailed scenario, that's fine with me as well, but maybe we should do one after the other?
evileeyore
 GM, 192 posts
Tue 1 Jan 2019
at 00:36
Re: Cowboys and Indians
Derrick:
When I say "Break Contact" I probably mean "Leave the scene", and we're probably using basic chase rules, which would give a slight advantage to the folks with higher riding and wilderness skills.

Which is the Comanches.

quote:
The basic scenario is the cowpokes want revenge, and they've got the Comanche at a disadvantage.

In what manner would the cowboys have an advantage?

quote:
Given that WW1 soldiers went into battle with 150 rounds, that's probably the upper limit for the cow-pokes.

I'd recommend roughly 50 rounds.  Split however the individual cowboy wants (so a riflemen could have more rifle reloads, a pistolier more pistol ammmo).

quote:
I very much think the Comanche have a chance if they time things correctly.

Unless there is something in this scenario that you haven't mentioned, all they have to do is successfully ride away.
Derrick
 GM, 244 posts
Thu 3 Jan 2019
at 15:54
Re: Cowboys and Indians
Mari:
I thought we keep it as simple as possible, that's why I suggested a Comanche charge against stationary Cowboys. The only thing to keep track of would be the distance between the groups (and ammo of course, but that would be needed in any scenario).

If you want to go with a more detailed scenario, that's fine with me as well, but maybe we should do one after the other?


That's probably the best idea. We'll run a simple charge first, with two wagons and an ammo box.

----------------------------

The cowboys have an advantage over the comanche when they can see their movements and fire at a distance without large darkness penalties.

50 rounds sounds decent.

I'm explaining the "retire safely" concept very poorly, it appears. When I said "have a chance" I meant they could possibly engage in combat and win if they time things right.
Vulco1
 player, 105 posts
Thu 3 Jan 2019
at 19:07
Re: Cowboys and Indians
Sounds good.
evileeyore
 GM, 193 posts
Fri 4 Jan 2019
at 01:00
Re: Cowboys and Indians
Derrick:
The cowboys have an advantage over the comanche when they can see their movements and fire at a distance without large darkness penalties.

Okay...

quote:
I'm explaining the "retire safely" concept very poorly, it appears. When I said "have a chance" I meant they could possibly engage in combat and win if they time things right.

Sure.
Derrick
 GM, 246 posts
Mon 7 Jan 2019
at 17:03
Re: Cowboys and Indians
Ok, so it appears that 6 cowpokes will take the charge of a number (24?) comanche warriors. Each cowpoke carries 50 rounds of ammunition, with more in one of two chuck wagons.

Could I get a roll call by the cowpoke players, with each of them saying how many Comanche they think their pair can take? I'd also like Mari to confirm she's ready, or if she's not.

We'll start a new thread for this fight once those details are established.
Mari
 player, 59 posts
Mon 7 Jan 2019
at 17:33
Re: Cowboys and Indians
I'm ready.
evileeyore
 GM, 194 posts
Mon 7 Jan 2019
at 18:12
Re: Cowboys and Indians
Derrick:
Could I get a roll call by the cowpoke players...

Earnest and Daisy are ready.

quote:
...with each of them saying how many Comanche they think their pair can take?

Is this spades?  Do I gotta call my tricks?

*grumble* /looks across at DBlade and Vulco and sizes up his partners...
I call 10.  And neither one of y'all better call nil, or they'll be a reckonin!




quote:
...they think their pair can take?

Pretty sure me and Mari are the ones rolling with more than one Character under their control, DBlade made a pistolier and I think Vulco made a rifleman.  But neither have been posted to the Final Characters thread.
Dblade
 player, 204 posts
Mon 7 Jan 2019
at 18:45
Re: Cowboys and Indians
I might need to drop from it? I've been having trouble figuring out how to optimize and between that and illness I'm not sure if I'll wind up holding people back even more.
Vulco1
 player, 106 posts
Mon 7 Jan 2019
at 21:53
Re: Cowboys and Indians
I'm in and ready
Derrick
 GM, 250 posts
Mon 7 Jan 2019
at 21:54
Re: Cowboys and Indians
Vulco1:
I'm in and ready


And how many can your people take?
Vulco1
 player, 107 posts
Tue 8 Jan 2019
at 15:46
Re: Cowboys and Indians
Ben will also take 5 Commanches
Derrick
 GM, 251 posts
Wed 9 Jan 2019
at 15:43
Re: Cowboys and Indians
Ok, so three cowpokes believe they can take the charge of 15. I think you're going to end up dead without the dignity of a burial, but the bets have been made. I'll set up a thread just for the fight.
Vulco1
 player, 110 posts
Thu 10 Jan 2019
at 18:25
Re: Cowboys and Indians
Nice!

Wouldn't be the first time.  Now I just have to bone up on the range fighting rules, lol.
Vulco1
 player, 111 posts
Thu 10 Jan 2019
at 18:33
Re: Cowboys and Indians
What should be used as the range and speed modifier at the start here?  How fast are those horses moving or because they are coming at us, there isn't one?

I'd suggest -12 to start (200yds + 12yds/sec for the horsespeed).
evileeyore
 GM, 197 posts
Sat 12 Jan 2019
at 00:55
Re: Cowboys and Indians
First off, I'd like to point out that ponies don't have a Move of 12...  they have a Move of 14.

And I'd like to know if the cowboys have calvary horses or ponies?




Vulco1:
How do we want to do turn order and initiative?

It should come down to "each side roll a die, the Cowboys get a +1 for having the Tactics skill" (if Daisy is the cowboy's leader, as she actually has the skill).  However, at the range we're at....  it's really only going to matter if the Comanches decide to use archery in the same turn we decide to fire our rifles.  Which considering the difference in accuracy and the penalties they should be taking for firing while on a charging horse*... it's pretty unlikely that they'll fire first or at the same time.  I suspect the cowboys will get two or three shots off before they close enough to use archery.

Otherwise we'll just be doing a "indians go, then cowboys, then indians" etc.


* Never mind, they've got Horse Archery.  So, we might only get one volley off before they close enough to start firing back.

quote:
Also, can we attack multiple targets per turn? I haven't found anything that says we can't but I haven't found something that says we can either.

There are exactly 3 ways to get more than one ranged attack:  Extra Attack (which no one has), Dual Weapon Attack, and Ranged Rapid Shot.

Dual Weapon Attack is identical to melee, have two weapons, make two attacks at -4 to each, if both target the same foe they get a -1 to parries; Area Defense, Precognitive Parry, etc.  Dodge is unaffected.

Ranged Rapid Shot requires a firearm with a RoF of 2+, otherwise it's identical to Rapid Strike.  Can be trained up using the Quick Shot Technique.

There are three ways to increase your RoF; Fanning, Fast-Firing, and Thumbing.  I can explain them if necessary.

This message was last edited by the GM at 00:57, Sat 12 Jan.

Vulco1
 player, 117 posts
Sat 12 Jan 2019
at 22:30
Re: Cowboys and Indians
I was wandering if I could shoot at one of the comanches, then switch targets? Or just attack that same target twice?  My rifle has RoF of 2