Cowboys and Indians.   Posted by Derrick.Group: 0
Mari
 player, 61 posts
Sat 12 Jan 2019
at 23:06
Re: Cowboys and Indians
Vulco1:
I was wandering if I could shoot at one of the comanches, then switch targets? Or just attack that same target twice?  My rifle has RoF of 2

As far as I understand, you could fire twice on one warrior, and if you hit with a number low enough (skill minus recoil value of the gun) then you hit that warrior twice.

evileeyore:
First off, I'd like to point out that ponies don't have a Move of 12...  they have a Move of 14.

Thanks, 12 seemed a little slow.

evileeyore:
And I'd like to know if the cowboys have calvary horses or ponies?

I thought the cowboys would be stationary for this one?
evileeyore
 GM, 199 posts
Sun 13 Jan 2019
at 05:05
Re: Cowboys and Indians
Vulco1:
I was wandering if I could shoot at one of the comanches, then switch targets? Or just attack that same target twice?  My rifle has RoF of 2

Ranged Rapid Shot.




Mari:
I thought the cowboys would be stationary for this one?

Not to my knowledge.  Otherwise I'd have rewritten Earnest who has 15 points dedicated to being a mounted rifleman.


Note, after rereading the last several posts I realize I missed where Derrick quoted your "stationary" suggestion.  If that's the case and the cowboys have no horses, I need that reaffirmed ny Derrick.
Derrick
 GM, 254 posts
Mon 14 Jan 2019
at 16:20
Re: Cowboys and Indians
Sorry about the delay. Family Surgery, Project Deadlines, and Car Replacement are beasts to all have in the same week.

The horses are the same as before, which means they have move 12. Both Cowboys and Comanches have saddle horses that are used to gunfire. The cowboys may mount up, but the objective is the wagons. If the cowboys abandon the wagons the fight is over. Maybe there's a kid or bag of gold in there.

I want to use the standard range table here.

Everyone knows the other is coming. You may be mounted, dismounted, using the wagons as cover, or in whatever position holding whatever weapons you want. The Comanche go first, and their first action ends them at 200 yards. Then the cowboys go.

So We've got Ben behind a wagon with 1 round of aim (please note if you aim a a bow or a lance). Daisy is inside the wagon, which she's taken the cover off of. Earnest is at position (6,6) (though he be at (8,8) if he wants to. diagnals are like that).

The Comanche are at (0,200) may move 12 yards forward and take an action. If you could specify a formation of sorts that'd be nice.
Mari
 player, 62 posts
Mon 14 Jan 2019
at 18:31
Re: Cowboys and Indians
Derrick:
The Comanche are at (0,200) may move 12 yards forward and take an action. If you could specify a formation of sorts that'd be nice.

The Comanche ride in a single row formation, so basically everyone is at the same distance. Unless I specify anything else, they are charging. I am not sure if they can do all-out defense while riding without losing speed, if they can, they will do that (and take a +2 to dodge).
Vulco1
 player, 119 posts
Tue 15 Jan 2019
at 21:34
Re: Cowboys and Indians
Awesome.  Thanks guys.
evileeyore
 GM, 200 posts
Wed 16 Jan 2019
at 01:40
Re: Cowboys and Indians
Derrick:
The horses are the same as before, which means they have move 12.

Do they have a Move of 12 or a Move of 8 and Enhanced Move 0.5?

The rules are subtly different.  Note, no horse in Basic has a base Move of 12.

quote:
The Comanche go first, and their first action ends them at 200 yards. Then the cowboys go.

So at this point we're waiting for the Comanches to go again*, and Vulco is jumping the gun a bit...  ;)

* Or at least for Mari to declare their action in thread.

quote:
Earnest is at position (6,6) (though he be at (8,8) if he wants to. diagnals are like that).

Actually...  unless Earnest (or more importantly his horse) was moving at full base Move (or greater) the previous turn, the horse can only 'accelerate' to full base Move this turn.


Two questions:
Where are we declaring 0, 0 to be (so we can better position in our mind maps)?

Is this a completely flat featureless expanse of terrain?





Mari:
The Comanche ride in a single row formation, so basically everyone is at the same distance.

Is there a 'horse width' between them or are they riding knee to knee?

quote:
I am not sure if they can do all-out defense while riding...

This is...  variable.  The rules are a bit contradictory.

The mounts can take any Maneuver, unless they are moving at high speed*, at which point they have to take either Move or Move and Attack.

The rider can take any Maneuver unless they have to control† their mount, then they have to take either Move‡ or Ready Maneuvers (Move for normal controlling, Ready to regain control of a spooked mount).





* This is where the fact that they have Enhanced Speed comes in.  If they are moving faster than their base Move, they are at 'high speed' and must obey those rules for turning radius, slowing down, etc.

† What constitutes 'control' is ambiguous, but I tend to favor "Any time you have to make a Riding roll", which is any time you change the mount's direction or speed.

‡ I personally also allow Move and Attack, but I don't know what Derrick will be allowing, whether we'll be sticking to RAW § or not.

§ I'll note, that in the last Cowboy v Indians the rules for mounted combat were being largely ignored.  I'd prefer they be followed more closely this time around.
Mari
 player, 63 posts
Wed 16 Jan 2019
at 10:32
Re: Cowboys and Indians
evileeyore:
Vulco1:
Ben says "Here we go." then fires two shots into one of the Commanches with bows. Both shots go wide


16:44, Today: Vulco1 rolled 9 using 3d6.  Rifle Fire 2 (8(17(base skill) +3(accuracy)-12(Modifier)) vs Roll.

16:43, Today: Vulco1 rolled 11 using 3d6.  Rifle Fire 1 (8(17(base skill) +3(accuracy)-12(Modifier)) vs Roll.

Rapid firing into one target is singular roll, see page 373 under Rapid Fire.

True, and also note that you can brace your rifle by resting it on a wagon for example for an additional +1, and as long as you don't expect the Indians to shoot back (also once they do if you want to live dangerously) you can do an all-out attack for one more +1.

Aiming works like this: 1 turn of aiming: +ACC; 2 turns of aiming: +ACC+1; 3 turns of aiming: +ACC+2. In your example you aimed for one turn.

So assuming you want to have the best chance of hitting your target, you would aim for 3 seconds and then fire in the next turn. Of course that means my Indians would have eaten 48 yards of distance by then. The difficulty would be for you: 17 (base skill) -12 (range) +3 (ACC) +2 (add. aiming) +1 (braced) +1 (all-out attack) = 12. If you're firing two shots, you would hit with both at a 10 or below, since the recoil is 2 (if I'm looking at the correct weapon). If both shots hit, I have to roll better to dodge both as well.
Mari
 player, 64 posts
Wed 16 Jan 2019
at 10:34
Re: Cowboys and Indians
evileeyore:
Mari:
The Comanche ride in a single row formation, so basically everyone is at the same distance.

Is there a 'horse width' between them or are they riding knee to knee?

Yes, there is about a horse width between them.

Regarding dodging, I'll wait for Derrick to come back on this then.
Derrick
 GM, 255 posts
Wed 16 Jan 2019
at 14:20
Re: Cowboys and Indians
evileeyore:
Derrick:
The horses are the same as before, which means they have move 12.

Do they have a Move of 12 or a Move of 8 and Enhanced Move 0.5?

The rules are subtly different.  Note, no horse in Basic has a base Move of 12.


I was using saddle horses, so move of 8 and enhanced move 1/2. However, I'm looking at the rules and it occurs to me that every mount will have at least light encumbrance, and some might have medium. I'm upgrading everyone's mount to a cavalry horse (which is actually leaps and bounds better). Everyone has ST 10, and I'm going to use GM fiat to say you all give your horse light encumbrance. barely. This means speed is now 6 the first turn and 12 the second.

quote:
Earnest is at position (6,6) (though he be at (8,8) if he wants to. diagnals are like that).

Actually...  unless Earnest (or more importantly his horse) was moving at full base Move (or greater) the previous turn, the horse can only 'accelerate' to full base Move this turn.
</quote>
They are saddle horses (that aren't gun shy), so move of 8 and Enhanced Move 1/2. And I see where Earnest's slower movement comes from.

quote:
Two questions:
Where are we declaring 0, 0 to be (so we can better position in our mind maps)?

Is this a completely flat featureless expanse of terrain?


(0,0) is just in front of the middle of the two wagons, which are lined up long ways, stretching from (-4,-1) to (4,-1), each 3 yards long with a 2 yard gap between them.

The wagons are at the top of a slight rise, and there is a second slight rise at (0,200), and 200 yards behind the wagons is another slight rise. The ground is dirt or sparse grass, with sage brush appearing in places. If you want to use a sagebrush for something, there will be one 1d3 yards away in a randomly determined direction (Fore, Left, Right, Back, Fore and Left, Fore and Right, Back and Right, Back and Left).


quote:
quote:
I am not sure if they can do all-out defense while riding...

This is...  variable.  The rules are a bit contradictory.

The rider can take any Maneuver unless they have to control† their mount, then they have to take either Move‡ or Ready Maneuvers (Move for normal controlling, Ready to regain control of a spooked mount).

† What constitutes 'control' is ambiguous, but I tend to favor "Any time you have to make a Riding roll", which is any time you change the mount's direction or speed.

‡ I personally also allow Move and Attack, but I don't know what Derrick will be allowing, whether we'll be sticking to RAW § or not.

§ I'll note, that in the last Cowboy v Indians the rules for mounted combat were being largely ignored.  I'd prefer they be followed more closely this time around.


Move and attack does sound valid. I'll allow it. I'm going to require a move maneuver to give a new command to your horse, but if you don't make that maneuver, the horse will extrapolate your command. They're intelligent and highly trained animals after all.

Which means that yes, you can take all out defense dodge.

This message was last edited by the GM at 14:21, Wed 16 Jan.

Vulco1
 player, 121 posts
Wed 16 Jan 2019
at 15:20
Re: Cowboys and Indians
Thanks EE
evileeyore:
Vulco1:
Ben says "Here we go." then fires two shots into one of the Commanches with bows. Both shots go wide


16:44, Today: Vulco1 rolled 9 using 3d6.  Rifle Fire 2 (8(17(base skill) +3(accuracy)-12(Modifier)) vs Roll.

16:43, Today: Vulco1 rolled 11 using 3d6.  Rifle Fire 1 (8(17(base skill) +3(accuracy)-12(Modifier)) vs Roll.

Rapid firing into one target is singular roll, see page 373 under Rapid Fire.

Derrick
 GM, 256 posts
Thu 17 Jan 2019
at 14:48
Re: Cowboys and Indians
Mari, I think we're waiting on you.
Mari
 player, 66 posts
Thu 17 Jan 2019
at 15:05
Re: Cowboys and Indians
I'm really not doing much at this point, but I posted that anyways. ;-)
evileeyore
 GM, 202 posts
Fri 18 Jan 2019
at 17:37
Re: Cowboys and Indians
Derrick:
I'm going to require a move maneuver to give a new command to your horse, but if you don't make that maneuver, the horse will extrapolate your command. They're intelligent and highly trained animals after all.

So, a penalty to the Riding skill then?
Derrick
 GM, 258 posts
Fri 18 Jan 2019
at 17:46
Re: Cowboys and Indians
evileeyore:
Derrick:
I'm going to require a move maneuver to give a new command to your horse, but if you don't make that maneuver, the horse will extrapolate your command. They're intelligent and highly trained animals after all.

So, a penalty to the Riding skill then?


I was thinking no roll, but no ability to change the horses's action either. It will either keep moving in the previous direction, stop directly in front of a foe, move past a foe (if its aimed to the side rather than the front), or avoid an obstacle. If you want to do anything else, you need to take a move or a move and attack maneuver.

Does that sound kosher?
evileeyore
 GM, 203 posts
Fri 18 Jan 2019
at 20:34
Re: Cowboys and Indians
Derrick:
Does that sound kosher?

Sounds perfectly fine.  /thumbsup.gif
Vulco1
 player, 126 posts
Fri 18 Jan 2019
at 20:53
Re: Cowboys and Indians
Ben is behind the right wagon.
evileeyore
 GM, 208 posts
Thu 24 Jan 2019
at 06:58
Re: Cowboys and Indians
Derrick:
This means speed is now 6 the first turn and 12 the second.

Is there a reason they aren't getting their full (base) Move of 8 and their full Enhanced Move of 16?


And... if they were just starting at 6 because they were traveling at "cruising speed", then in turn two they could have accelerated to only full base Move.  You have to be moving at full base Move before you can accelerate to full Enhanced Move.

This message was last edited by the GM at 07:01, Thu 24 Jan.

Derrick
 GM, 261 posts
Thu 24 Jan 2019
at 15:26
Re: Cowboys and Indians
In reply to evileeyore (msg # 198):

Encumbrance. Each horse is carrying at least 150 lbs of saddle, weapons, and rider. Some (most) are carrying more. Any horse (or character) with ST 22 that carries more than 96.8 lbs has light encumbrance, has their dodge reduced by 1, and their move reduced by 20%, rounding down. 8*0.8=6.4 ~= 6. doubling the fraction gives 12.8, which still rounds down to 12.

(6 yards diagonally is 4 over and 4 up)

This message was last edited by the GM at 15:27, Thu 24 Jan.

evileeyore
 GM, 210 posts
Thu 24 Jan 2019
at 17:38
Re: Cowboys and Indians
Derrick:
Encumbrance.

Doh!
evileeyore
 GM, 223 posts
Thu 14 Feb 2019
at 03:58
Re: Cowboys and Indians
Sorry for the delay, I realized on monday night that I needed to do math to make sure of the range... (since Earnest has ridden out at a diagonal from the wagons and thus has actually 'increased' his (lateral) distance from the rightmost riders...)

√((y2-y1)^2+(x2-x1)^2)

So I figured I'd wait until I was awake enough to do it..  and then...

Today I found a website that would do it for me once I was sufficiently mentally alert to actually do math.  Yay...

http://www.meracalculator.com/...2points-distance.php

Anyway, he's at 102 yards...  booooooo!  If hadn't double checked I'd have used my back of the napkin math and been under 100 yards.
Mari
 player, 73 posts
Sat 16 Feb 2019
at 09:41
Re: Cowboys and Indians
evileeyore:
Mari:
Mari rolled 2 using 1d6.  Fall damage (is this right?).</Orange>

1d-1.  Velocity for a 3 yard fall is 8.  Collision is the same as Slams, (Velocity x HP)/100, (8x10)/100 = 0.80.  0.80 is less than 1 but higher than 0.50, so the damage is 1d-1.

So 1 crushing damage.

It's a 2 yard fall due to the riding maneuvers being successful. I had that as a velocity of 7, with 10 HP and a hard surface (x2) that should come up to 140/100, so 1d. But I am always a bit wobbly with fall damage.
evileeyore
 GM, 226 posts
Sat 16 Feb 2019
at 18:22
Re: Cowboys and Indians
Mari:
It's a 2 yard fall...

OMG.  Yeah.  I read "On a success, he leaps clear and takes damage as per 3, above" as meaning "three yard fall".  Sigh.  Lack of sleep kids, it's a horrible drug.

quote:
...hard surface (x2)...

I forgot about the hard surface as well!  /throwsarmsupandscreeches.gif

Your math is impeccable.

Though, you can attempt an Acrobatics (DX-6 at default) roll to further reduce the fall by 5 yards.  Meaning no fall damage.
Derrick
 GM, 277 posts
Mon 18 Feb 2019
at 14:37
Re: Cowboys and Indians
The above analysis is correct. The riders don't have acrobatics or jumping, though you'd expect them to.
Mari
 player, 74 posts
Mon 18 Feb 2019
at 18:32
Re: Cowboys and Indians
Nope, didn't make that Dex-6 roll.

Mari rolled 15 using 3d6.  Dex-6 check (6).
Vulco1
 player, 140 posts
Sat 16 Mar 2019
at 17:08
Re: Cowboys and Indians
Sorry y'all. Life got super hectic with a new job and a cross country move. I'll try to check in more often.