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20:23, 19th April 2024 (GMT+0)

Rules Discussions.

Posted by Chiisai ToriFor group 0
Chiisai Tori
GM, 96 posts
Mon 12 Nov 2018
at 12:00
  • msg #1

OOC Rules Discussions

This is where we talk about rules, compare sections of the rulebook, and decide what was intended by makers of the game.  Often, we'll just discuss things and I'll make a ruling, but if something is complex, or I decide to deviate from something written (I'll try to keep that to an extreme minimum when possible), I'll officially post in in the rules interpretation thread so people can review rules without reviewing the whole discussion about 100's of rules.
Chiisai Tori
GM, 97 posts
Mon 12 Nov 2018
at 12:06
  • msg #2

OOC Rules Discussions

Totsu, I'll start with an easy one:  In this game system, especially with secondary actions, drawing a weapon is an action.  You do not get to draw a weapon for free with two exceptions - unarmed combat forms, and iaijutsu.  So, for almost any combat, there will have to be a statement made as to when you've drawn your weapon and if it happens after the Detailed Turn countdown has started (i.e. inside combat), then a BAP, PAP, or SAP will have to be used to draw the weapon.

Constantly carrying a weapon out is socially considered an act of aggression.  It is almost an invitation to fight.  You can do it, but expect to be attacked a lot.  There was one historic swordsman who always walked around with his sword out so that it was ready.  He only got away with it because he was so good, nobody was dumb enough to fight him.

I know your mock combat rules may have started with weapons out, but in most cases, pulling a weapon out will actually BE your action and start the Detailed Turn.  So if you go on 11, and there is no combat but people are watching each other, putting a yawara in your hand would start the combat phase at action 11 and your action will have been to draw your weapon.  We'd then go to AP 10.

And yes, per the rules, if you are engaged, an attempt to draw a weapon requires a Deftness roll.
This message was last edited by the GM at 12:32, Mon 12 Nov 2018.
Chiisai Tori
GM, 98 posts
Mon 12 Nov 2018
at 12:30
  • msg #3

OOC Rules Discussions

Like most game systems, the grappling rules suck.  It is a major part of this game though, so I have no problem discussing before I make a ruling on any particular aspect of it.

AC  I see no rules that say otherwise, so I am assuming a defender gets his AC vs a grapple attack.  While I see why that might not be the case, I also feel that the form requries various locks and movements that armor would make more difficult.  So, I invite anyone to show me rules otherwise, but from what I read, when you make a Jujutsu roll against someone, you have to defeat their AC and Defense just like a strike.  I lean this way because under combat on page 63, it says handle all other attack forms like a strike unless they say differently in the rules.

Effect numbers  This applies to all effect numbers: I'm ruling that you add 1 to all effect numbers.  Thus, if you 'succeed' in a roll, there needs to be a benefit.  Rolling 10 when your BCS is 10 and having nothing happen makes no sense.  So while that's a '0' effect, we will add 1 and make the effect 1.  So if you have a bcs of 10 and roll an 8, that's a 3 effect.

Yawara My genuine interpretation of the wording of the rules: It says Yawara adds 2 to the Grapple Hold.  Not Jujutsu roll.  So the +2 only benefits the 'holder'.  It provides no help to counters, throws, trips, or takedowns and in provides no help if you are not the attacker.  I flirt with the idea that this was intended to add 2 to the effect number TOTAL.  Meaning you're grappling goal is to hit your opponents strength with accumulated effect, and that once you've gotten a Hold, you add 2 if using the yawara - not 2 each time you attempt to generate an effect.  I welcome discussion about the verbiage of that since I thinke the rules could be read either way.  From a game balance perspective, making a piece of wood taken off the ground the equivalent of an Excellent Katana (which would also be +2) that costs 1000's of silver seems, well, very nice.

Jujutsu opponents  It says any jujutsu attack is subject to the opponent, if they have jujutsu, to reduce the effect.  This is not a counter, it is an ability of the specific jujutsu art form.  Thus, any roll to increase an effect number of a hold is an attack and be subject to the opponent getting a roll to modify the results.  This does not cost the opponent his action.  Remember, negative effects add to the attackers effect number against your strength.  And yes, combat between two jujutsu masters takes a long time in this system.

Also, what Paul said was correct, you cannot use counter-attack against a grapple that was started with Jujutsu.  There is no higher grappling form.  So when the jujutsu rules say you must choose the Throw option when using jujutsu to counter means if someone started a grapple with a jujutsu practitioner using Brawling or Sumai. This also means you cannot counter with atemi if in a jujutsu hold, but can against Sumai or Brawling.  The assumption is that a jujutsu hold is more precise and designed not to give you leverage rather than just bear hugging someone.  (and a note about the yawara in this case, the yawara is actually a modifier to atemi.  If you get to make counter attack, you can use the yawara if you have it out.  If you must attack with 'a weapon' at 50%, a fist is a weapon and you could use the yawara there as well).
This message was last edited by the GM at 13:00, Mon 12 Nov 2018.
Chiisai Tori
GM, 99 posts
Mon 12 Nov 2018
at 13:19
  • msg #4

OOC Rules Discussions

An error with the mock I think:

Hiro does not 'lose' his SAP.  He simply cannot increase his hold.  His options are just limited.  He could alter position to takedown.

Also, Rich, your BASE BCS includes your bonus skill +1.  The formula is:
Take your BCS (with Bonus skill included already), and make any BCS modifications that are not 'situational' (such as negatives for second striking or taking 50% from a secondary action penalty).  Subtract opponents AC and defense.  Then apply situational mods.  Then apply weapon quality.

  Situational mods are Distractions, Restrictions, and Circumstances.  Distractions happen to you and I'll tell you when they happen, same with restrictions.  Circumstances are in the charts on page 65.

So, If your score is 56, your base BCS is 12 with a bonus skill.

Scenario One, you're attacking someone in your BAP.
You have a bcs of 12, you do not second strike.
You reduce 12 by their adjusted ac, lets say 3 for this opponent.  Your at a 9.
You are standing on a table so have higher ground +1.  The table is wobbly so it's treacherous ground -1.  You are attacking someone from behind. +10.
You're BCS is now 12-3+10=19.

Scenario Two.  Same thing, but you're second striking in a SAP.
First attack: You have a BCS of 12.  You lose one because of the second strike to 11.  You then take 50% since it's a SAP, so you're at 5.
Their AC is 3, so you reduce this to 2.
You are on a treacherous table attacking from behind, so you are now at a BCS of 12.

Your second attack:  You have BCS 12.  You take -1 for the second strike, 11.  You take 50% since it's the second strike, 5.  You take 50% since it's a SAP, 2.
Their AC is 3, so this is reduced to -1.
You are on a treacherous table attacking from behind, so you are now at a BCS if 9 for this second attack in this SAP.
Chiisai Tori
GM, 100 posts
Mon 12 Nov 2018
at 13:39
  • msg #5

OOC Rules Discussions

Distractions are very GM dependent.  They don't give many details.  My take is:
The poison rules cited by Paul only apply to poison.

The length of a distraction, if not otherwise dictated, is up to the GM.  For a trip, I would rule it would foil their next action.  He just has to get his footing back and is off balance and disoriented until he does.  I picture a trip attack that is partially successful (since the save was made) whereby the tripped person must divert almost all of his attention to not being tripped. Since drawing a weapon takes an action in this game, I'd assume the tripped person has regained his balance while taking his next action (but suffers the effects that action).

However, a distraction for, say, your best friend being held at knife point while you fight would continue until your best friend was no longer at knifepoint.

I know they can be powerful.  Please keep in mind Hir rolled a 2.  If Totsu hit Hiro with attemi, and rolled a two, it's possible he'd, oh, put his EYE out or something.
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