General Discussion.   Posted by Aenarion.Group: 0
Aenarion
 GM, 1 post
Thu 15 Nov 2018
at 11:26
Pregame Discussion
Welcome everyone!

As mentioned in my PM, I'm pretty much open for anything epic level related. If there are no conclusive preferences regarding a specific setting and style of campaign, I will have no trouble coming up with something on my own, but I want to give you guys the opportunity to discuss this beforehand and see if we can't find a common denominator for what this game should be about.

So, let me know if there is a setting you want to play in (or definitely don't want to see) and what type of campaign you would prefer, the good old roleplaying-to-combat ratio, etc, as well as any special wishes (houserules for example) you might have.


I will see what I can do to accommodate everyone as good as possible.

This message was last edited by the GM at 11:36, Thu 15 Nov 2018.

Player-V_V
 player, 1 post
Thu 15 Nov 2018
at 14:02
Pregame Discussion
COMBAT: SHORT VERSION
I'd like to get to combat early in the game and have intially simple premise, not huge preamble.It'd be nice to stress test the comfort level and "RL strain" in combat withinthe first 3 RL months at least twice.Combat kills game, so I'd like to know that's the problem, and it be new enough we're all excited to discuss "maybe we should go <10% combat" In essence 60/40 ratio, combat can be either side, I play both types quite often. 60% combat is still enhough non-combat to be far form Hsck'n'slash for me.



Spoiler for Combat Long Version: (Highlight or hover over the text to view)

I enjoy 60% to 40% ratio, and funny enough I'm keen on playing it either direction. Combat kills D&D games. In my 12 years of avid D&D 3.5 combat, always the by the third fight, just wrecks RPoL games. I played Living Greyhawk. I'm used to three conbats, minimum a session (in person) so that's the big reason (for many of my friends) why starting at anything except the level you want to play is ridiculous. Same for "start as peasants" yeah no, I'll pass, it'll never go anywhere...never.

That said, 60% combat can be brisk. Or 40% combat can be an investment. It really depends on the GM's pace and his stance on actually NPCing people in combat. Many say they will, but then err on the side or RL circumstances to not. I'm fine either way. I have RL crap for weeks, but if it's thing (NPCing, or GMing PCs) then combat can be quick.

Either way, I think combat should be quite frequent so as to have the cat out of the bag if it's even something our GM can handle. I know, personally, I can't as a GM. 95% of GMs can't either. It's a total pacebreaker, it's when RL doesn't just hit, but combat isn't fun. KISS. Always KISS. So it'd be nice to know if combat should be avoided, early on, not immediately, but not after some longwinded preamble that just blows like an untied balloon. While I played LG (Living Greyhawk) I also (still) play a 3.5 game that went from 7th to 48th and uses Immortal's Handbook. And there weren't just a few sessions with combat absent, it became more and more frequent as we grew in power. So having combat be even <10% is fine, especially if the GM is just having trouble. Combat breaks pace, no doubt. Ideally it'd just be nice to know ahead of time it's that case.



CAMPAIGN SETTING: SHORT VERSION
I personally find campaign settings like forensics homework; superfluous reading. I'd much rather learn in game. That said, I know Greyhawk, I know Faerun (enough). Those are (if necessary) my choices, but only so far as it is preferred to be more than generic. I like their pantheons, and geography. The rest is noise, but others may like it. I won't spoil that for them. I will, however, ask to lurk is Aleph Null asks for Dark Sun, Dragonlance, KoK, or Ghostwalk. If it's Ravenloft or Eberron, I go into this leery, but I'm willing to cope with LOTS of help. Keep to shortest most brief version of what I need to know and feed me info. Reading here, it fine, but not too much, or I get overwhelmed.


Spoiler for CS Long Version: (Highlight or hover over the text to view)

AS far as Campagin settings. Hate them all. Greyhawk is tolerable. Faerun, I know enough to do it, but it's noise to me. I'll play and feign like I care, and act accordingly in character, but the moment Sune disbanded a paladin for being scarred it lost my respect for the world. It's rubbish continuity IMO, but has some gems I can cling to if others like it. Eberron is...well...unbalanced. It is balanced for its own world, but not for those that use its mechanics. Again though, it's noise. I don't mind me underpowered. Unlike Greyhawk and Faerun I have no interest in learning about the world. I read some and it sounded too political, so I bowed out of trying to care. If we do Eberron, which is fine, we can, I'll likely play an outsider or even better systemwalker. So I can both in and out of character be ignorant. If I have to know something, I'd prefer the cliff's notes of the abridged edition of the shorthand of the lore. That is, like a paragraph of information.

Campaign settings just aren't my thing. So don't be offended if it's your thing. I'm all for each of us being able to get something else out of it. Teamwork is my thing, and character motivation and advancement is far more important (to me) than world lore. In games with world lore, even video games, I play, not read. That's just my style. That said, as long as it's not Dragonlance, god please! Not dragonlance. Same with Dark Sun. If our OP Aleph Null decides he wants Dark Sun or Dragonlance, I'll ask to lurk instead. They aren't for me. Ravenloft...could be fun...but in my experience it hasn't been. It CAN be good fun, but whenever I play its been the GM on power trip to say "you can't" and punish me. I'd rather know and do what I CAN. I'm all for breaking that pattern, but again I know nothing about the world, nor care to. Ravenloft, however, is easy for the mists to take new travelers,  soit;s easy for me to have character not familiar, and ask another PC who may be, or
has high knowledge skills. Um...Ghostwalk? Boring to me, so see Dark Sun entry. KoK, same thing, see Dark Sun entry.

Campaign settings are only fun if you love the world. I, for instance love Creation in Exalted. If Exalted was a D&D setting, I'd be the guy to ask for campaign setting. I'm not like that in D&D. Homebrew generic world, with Greyhawk Pantheon for me, if you please.

Everyone else who may like a campaign setting can win this section though, in the end I can tolerate the big three. I'm not going to be party-pooper.


This message was last edited by the player at 15:03, Thu 15 Nov 2018.

Player-Sardis
 player, 1 post
Thu 15 Nov 2018
at 15:59
Pregame Discussion
Combat:

I enjoy combat, but I also enjoy diplomacy, character development, solving problems/puzzles and 'cloak and dagger' type stuff, and just about any other game dynamic you can suggest.

That having been said, I'd like to see combat at least at a 30-40% as it really is the meat and potatoes of the whole D&D game.

Though...I'd like to explore options to expedite combat so that it runs smoother and doesn't take months to complete a single battle.  This is something we could discuss as a group.


Campaign Setting

My preference is the Forgotten Realms...cameos (read: NPC interaction/involvement by cannon characters) would be cool too.

If this is decided against, it really doesn't matter what setting is used (though I like Dark Sun from the novels I read as a teen), it would be great though if FR material was still able to be used for character creation.


I don't tend to make characters with much in the way of dedicated casting ability (read: I rarely use tier 1 or tier 2 casting classes), even though those that do usually steal the show...so I'd like opportunities for my character to shine to be made available from time to time.

This message was last edited by the player at 17:08, Thu 15 Nov 2018.

Player-Volstagg
 player, 1 post
Thu 15 Nov 2018
at 19:21
Pregame Discussion
Combat

I like combat.
With that being said, I dont think I have tried combat on epic scale on rpol or any other net based forum, so that could possibly become a challenge. Thats doesnt mean I wont like to try though :)
We/the DM should set some basic rules as to how to properly write a combat post, as I think there is alot that can happen on this power level during a single round, be it timestop or other nifty tricks. If we can manage to have a setup that is easy to read and understand without having to re-read it many times or having a PhD in rules lawyering(sp?) to comprehend, that would be a pluss :)

I think I will try to create a rather simple character, most likely some kind of spy and no major spellcasting to simplify the process. I do have a character in mind, but it depends on how we agree on the char generation, books alowed and whatnot.


Setting

Forgotten realms is fine. Greyhawk is fine. They are both familiar to me and make for an interesting background. I am also fine with homebrew. It doesnt have to be too complex, I think, to be fun to explore.

I am also fond of the Blood War. The war between demons and devils that require the PCs to be high powered to even survive a small skirmish.

Is the starting level set, or should we discuss that as well?
Player-Studynot
 player, 1 post
Thu 15 Nov 2018
at 19:25
Pregame Discussion
I think combat 30-40% is good, so long as we have a dedicated crew who don't drop out mid-combat and people are posting at a good rate. Especially with Epic/High Level 3.5, combats can DRAGGG even when you're playing IRL, so it's on us to maintain a good pace with that.

Puzzles/mysteries while fun in 1:1 play also can bog PBP games down in my experience. I love character development, roleplay, dialogue, moral quandaries (i.e. how will my character react to that).

For Setting - I'm familiar enough with pretty much any of them except for Kok. there are things I like about pretty much any and all of the Settings. FR is my first love, followed closely by Dark Sun. Spelljammer is fun, but wonky. Greyhawk always feels a little "meh" to me, but I am familiar with it enough to play in it easily. Eberron is great, but I've played a lot of Eberron lately so something different would be nice.

Given that we are looking to go Epic, we could always use Planescape/Sigil as a homebase. That would allow people to create characters from pretty much any prime/rule set. With the right magic, anyone can transit to an outer or elemental plane and find their way to Sigil.
Aenarion
 GM, 2 posts
Thu 15 Nov 2018
at 20:36
Re: Pregame Discussion
Thanks for all the replies so far!

Player-Volstagg:
Is the starting level set, or should we discuss that as well?


I would like you guys to start at level 20, get a feel for the characters and the campaign, and then head straight into epic levels.

Player-Studynot:
I love character development, roleplay, dialogue, moral quandaries (i.e. how will my character react to that).


No worries, there will be plenty of that! :)

Player-Studynot:
Given that we are looking to go Epic, we could always use Planescape/Sigil as a homebase. That would allow people to create characters from pretty much any prime/rule set. With the right magic, anyone can transit to an outer or elemental plane and find their way to Sigil.


That is a nice idea as well, truth to be told. I'm still debating with myself if I want to go with a homebrew one. Exploring this world might be pretty great.

This message was last edited by the GM at 20:36, Thu 15 Nov 2018.

Aenarion
 GM, 3 posts
Thu 15 Nov 2018
at 20:37
Re: Pregame Discussion
Let's see if Aleph Null will join us as well soon.
Aenarion
 GM, 4 posts
Thu 15 Nov 2018
at 22:21
Re: Pregame Discussion
If you guys have anything you want to see from a character creation process, please share it with the team :)
Player-Studynot
 player, 2 posts
Thu 15 Nov 2018
at 22:29
Re: Pregame Discussion
EDIT: Haha, I was just writing this when you posted the above!

I think OP from Aleph Null mentioned gestalt. Do you want to play with that as well or just normal builds at 20th+Epic?

If gestalt: racial HD+LA allowed on one side? Dual-progression PrC's allowed or not?

Also rulebooks, would you want to limit/exclude any? Wide open for WotC material? 3pp?

The more rulebooks allowed can extend creation time as there are so many options, so that is something else to think about. Plus if you wanted to do/allow gestalt on top it can take a good amount of time to just get a concept built up.

PS - Sorry for all the nitty-gritty creation questions. I just want to throw them out there so you can think about them Aenarion before you fully flesh out your game idea.

This message was last edited by the player at 22:29, Thu 15 Nov 2018.

Player-Sardis
 player, 2 posts
Thu 15 Nov 2018
at 23:06
Re: Pregame Discussion
Player-Studynot:
EDIT: Haha, I was just writing this when you posted the above!

I think OP from Aleph Null mentioned gestalt. Do you want to play with that as well or just normal builds at 20th+Epic?

If gestalt: racial HD+LA allowed on one side? Dual-progression PrC's allowed or not?

Also rulebooks, would you want to limit/exclude any? Wide open for WotC material? 3pp?

The more rulebooks allowed can extend creation time as there are so many options, so that is something else to think about. Plus if you wanted to do/allow gestalt on top it can take a good amount of time to just get a concept built up.

PS - Sorry for all the nitty-gritty creation questions. I just want to throw them out there so you can think about them Aenarion before you fully flesh out your game idea.


I'm a fan of HD+LA on one side.

Have no problem with Dual-progression PrC's with gestalt. (as I said, I don't do caster classes, so this generally doesn't apply to me, but am fine if others use it)

As far as source material go, I like access to a variety of sourcebooks, though a player should either have to provide a link to the SRD or D&D tools if one is available...or be willing to type out the details for the GM to review, so they don't have to go scrounging through sourcebooks.

SRD: http://www.d20srd.org/index.htm

D&D Tools: https://dndtools.net/

This message was last edited by the player at 23:07, Thu 15 Nov 2018.

Aenarion
 GM, 5 posts
Fri 16 Nov 2018
at 08:52
Re: Pregame Discussion
Aenarion:
Let's see if Aleph Null will join us as well soon.


So far I have not received any reply or RTJ from Aleph Null. Will give them until Monday, before giving you guys priority about game style and setting choice. So far it seems a combat ration of between 30-40% seems to be requested, with either the Forgotten Realms or a Homebrew one being the preferred choices when it comes to setting.

Player-Studynot:
I think OP from Aleph Null mentioned gestalt. Do you want to play with that as well or just normal builds at 20th+Epic?


Without gestalt it will be a bit easier for me to challenge your characters, but I'm not against it. I reckon most of you would prefer using the gestalt option? :)

Player-Studynot:
If gestalt: racial HD+LA allowed on one side? Dual-progression PrC's allowed or not?


If we will use gestalt, we can go all out I think. So 'Yes' to both questions.

Player-Studynot:
Also rulebooks, would you want to limit/exclude any? Wide open for WotC material? 3pp?


Open to a vote as well. As long as people are not going absolutely crazy with the min-maxing of various sourcebooks, I'm all for 3pp material.

Player-Studynot:
PS - Sorry for all the nitty-gritty creation questions. I just want to throw them out there so you can think about them Aenarion before you fully flesh out your game idea.


No need to be sorry, it's good to have those questions out of the way early!
Player-V_V
 player, 2 posts
Fri 16 Nov 2018
at 08:58
Re: Pregame Discussion
As far as character creation I would like to see severeal things happen; only one is a deal breaker for me, the others are just requests.

  1. Most importantly, we all have similarly aligned characters. Even good and evil CAN work together, but a Kyton just and an Astral Deva just feel like they will not make good roleplaying. This is the deal breaker. I don't like interparty strife. I can handle it, but this just seems like asking for trouble.
  2. Limited source usage but unlimited choices. Meaning having only a handful of sources each of us can use, but we can choose basically any WotC sources. I ran a game that had tons of trouble with only eight sources. I thought that would be more than enough, but no, most people felt they made an unsatisfying character. I think personally I could make character with core, two compendiums, a complete or two and then maybe one of two magazine issues. I usually do that anyway. I do know some people like optimizing their character choices though.
  3. Point-buy option for ability scores. No need to remove rolling, but I'd like an option for point-buy. Whether you want a "better of two" or "if you roll you get less points" is not really an issue. If it's the former, sure, I'll roll, but if it's the latter I'll choose the points. That is unless rolling is akin to getting all good stats like some GMs do "8d6, reroll 1's, take highest 3" stuff, that amounts to 14+ and likely (enough) a couple 18's..
  4. A few extra feats. My home group did every 3rd and 1st, and it works, but is also a power creep. Doing every 4th may work better. Even every 6th is something too.
  5. Gestalt...with LA and HD being able to be gestalted.
  6. Not start naked. It's sad this has to be said, but too many epic games like the character to start naked (no items). It's fine and all, but that's just...the majority of games I've been in recently, funny enough.

Aenarion
 GM, 6 posts
Fri 16 Nov 2018
at 09:08
Re: Pregame Discussion
In reply to Player-V_V (msg # 12):

1. Definitely important! I, too, think that an evil-aligned party might work if everyone agrees, but we need to clarify this sooner than later. Trouble among the party is not something any of us wants, I hope.

2. I leave that open to the majority. I'm good with pretty much most options when it comes to source material, as long as you guys are not going overboard with the powergaming aspect (as mentioned above).

3. Yup, you will get the option to roll first, and-if that was no satisfactory-you can use the pb option to generate your scores.

4. Fine with me, too. A bonus feat every 3rd level should be alright.

5. Sure, expected as much :)

6. Hah, having a level 20 character without equipment sounds like a bad joke. You will get the normal starting gold at your level to buy equipment.
Player-Volstagg
 player, 2 posts
Fri 16 Nov 2018
at 09:32
Re: Pregame Discussion
Maybe try to avoid too much one-level dipping into several prestige classes? I prefer to stick to one until it is done before starting a new.
Up to you of course, but it seems to me that can help alot in regards to min/maxing.
Player-V_V
 player, 3 posts
Fri 16 Nov 2018
at 10:10
Re: Pregame Discussion
In reply to Aenarion (msg # 13):

I'll be brief...
  1. Glad we're on the same page. ^_^
  2. I'm the MOST flexible on this. I agree there are ways to use 20 sources generously (to other players) and way sot use three sources and become an attention hog.
  3. That's awesome! This pleases about 98% of players in my experience.
  4. Bonus feats are good for every 3rd? Coool. :)
  5. Alright, so gestalt is decided (it sounds like). :D There are some who don't like that, but it's doubtful they'd have made it this far...
  6. Yeah, it really is a bad joke.



Spoiler for the bad joke: (Highlight or hover over the text to view)

I ran one, and it was because the character was going to be demi-god and well...most gods aren't decked out in gear. I also gave treasure in ways of artifacts and major items. Then as a twist of kharma like four games I joined we started with amnesia and naked. Three of which weren't advertised as that. In one the weapon spec fighter and wizard dropped out quick, as the former was basically an NPC Warrior without his weapon of choice, and the wizard was an NPC expert. The former could have been solved by just giving us at least the right weapon type. He used an exotic weapon and the GM was like "those don't exist in this world" "Welp, thanks for wasting my time.." The wizard's lack of spellbook was just inexcusable, we spent three RL weeks with flurries of posts and four in game days.

But yeah, if someone is to blame I guess it was me for starting the epic "you start naked" theme. To be fair though, it was solo, and the god was a kung fu monk and factotum so they were sort of turning up their nose at items. The big plus is that I advertised it as such "You'll start with no items, but have divine powers". Oh well. *chuckles* That's good to know we'll have the 760k gold. :D