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Thoughts/overthinking....Patterns....FOGs....Choice paradox.

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Thu 6 Dec 2018
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Thoughts/overthinking....Patterns....FOGs....Choice paradox.

mindfulness to create a detached observer free from your desires is useful in order to do things such as work, otherwise I am at the whim of the fluctuations of my mind. One idea is seeing a large x and looking at the axis Left to right as pain on one end, pleasure on the other. The up and down axis is peace on the top, and suffering on the bottom (down side).......
Lots to unpack on that for many reasons.

*******
Overthinking?
Some people over think and I think of over thinking can be a positive and in a good way, and also overthinking can be in a bad way.

I have thoughts and enjoy having thoughts and there does not seem to be a way to stop having thoughts, so the next best thing is being aware of and processing (questioning) my thoughts, before they pile up and wake up the dragon or cause a spiral (avalanche)...

I like to use the popcorn metaphor, some thoughts are light, fluffy, buttery and delicious; other thoughts are shriveled, grey and burnt tasting....if I let the popcorn popper just go I can end up eating a whole bowl of burnt popcorn.....

When I have a thought, it just pops in my head....
At that point I can ask my thought two questions.
1) Is it useful? and 2) how does it behave?


"My person is ignoring me."
Or more specifically, "my wife is ignoring me."
1. Is this thought useful?  No not really.
2. How will it behave? More thoughts and hostility or coldness towards her
"Oh now you want to talk to me?".....
Here I am experiencing rejection in my own mind!


At this point the thought is probably better to be understood as pointing to a need, "I want some attention from my wife"

So I can engage in a vulnerable way through communication and ask for attention/affection/appreciation
OR I can take a proactive action that facilitates that need:
Planning a date
The reason it is vulnerable is because I am risking rejection in real life.

Example 2 I am on the job and the thought pops into my mind
"No one appreciates me around here?"
Asking the two questions ---just as I suspected a bad thought both ways

need appreciation...ask boss ..."hey what am I doing great at?"
Party planning committee....appreciated for hard work in making an event
Bring in donuts for the office....no one says thanks....rejection

My family ignores me....
...proactive action, I text  them every Friday morning (scheduled)

Insidious  thought pattern(s)
-"proceeding in a gradual, subtle way, but with harmful effects"
"My person is choosing X,Y or Z over me."

Side note, recognizing my need, communicating that  need and becoming vulnerable to face real life rejection is a good working definition of "emotional availability"
***Courage:: to face uncertainty, risk, discomfort, vulnerability

The 2 questions are also situationly useful...
For example my teenager is upset and I try to hug her, she rejects the offer in the moment....
My petty thought is "fine you don't want my help, you are on your own"
Later she tries to sit with me, and I rebuff her...
I should have applied the 2 questions to that thought!

I prepared a fine meal for your birthday...asking "how is  it"?
"Not terrible."...."It was ok"......(army answer:"it will make a poo"
What was in my need? compliment, appreciation, gratitude, etc...

(Sometimes it can be more complex than this...if for example my anxiety makes me want to get reassurance then my "checking" for reassurance as a way to combat my anxiety, is a bad idea as it will increase both my anxiety and checking over time, and solve nothing)...

Another example
"I should give up"
Is this thought useful?  Nope!
How is this thought going  to behave?
-Demoralized/demotivated; self critical; depressed, hopeless????

If this thought keeps popping up it may be on a deeper level...

*****More with the popcorn thoughts
Keep using the tool through out my interactions.
I see my person and they say "what do you want?"

If I automatically interpret this as a rejection, i might "hear":
Go away!  Stop bothering me!  Don't be so selfish/needy.
I am a burden or albatros


So the popcorn starts again, she says what do you want? and it might cause a thought like I am bothering her, ...being selfish and demanding....etc etc...... Instead of answering what I want, a lingering hug with a kiss or something.

I can see it......and I might say "Never mind, sorry to bother you, it was not important."

It is a harder thing that people give it credit for. It is a super useful idea though, because you can keep applying it as you go.

*******Brief update
I usually say that it is thoughts that lead into emotions.  CBT and REBT believe that, however it can sometimes be that I see a thought/feeling as the same thing.  For example there is not much difference between feeling ignored and thinking I am being ignored.
In the moment the thing is from the popcorn thoughts metaphor.  Asking the 2 questions, 1) is this thought useful? and 2) how is it (or am I) going to behave?
If a thought/feeling keeps showing up for me, now I can see it and recognize it, and can say "oh this one again"

Some negative event takes place, and I think "no one respects me".....which can start a whole spiral of thoughts, needs to be asked the 2 questions and dealt with right away.

I can send you the entire popcorn thoughts metaphor, if you think it will be useful.


****Overthinking part 2
“I've had a lot of worries in my life, most of which never happened.”
-Mark Twain
---Be prepared, be efficient  (Worry illusion of control, worry is the cause, good thing is effect)

Emotional availability is something people say they want....I think the idea of recognizing your need and becoming vulnerable and communicating your need, and facing the possibility of real life rejection is a pretty good working definition of emotional availability......What do you think?

Identify your overthinking/rumination/worry whatever your word choice....
That is the first step, noticing that you are doing it.
Noticing when you are most likely to do it?
Noticing triggers?

Schedule a limited and specific time to do it....
Put it on paper, brain dump it (move it from digital to analog
Mediation...focus on the present
Go from vague to specific...Bad questions of universal nature...."Why me?" "What's wrong with me?"

Distraction (use with caution, good to deal with temporary "cravings"

Worry has physical consequences and anxiety...

Thinking has limitations in making a change, thinking correctly and then also feelings, and actions (self-activation) all combine to create "Engagement"....

Where am I?  What do I feel?
Expansion or contraction?
Joy or fear?
Excitement or dread?
Liberation or suffocation?
I found this  to be  a bit  more nuanced than fixed or growth; scarcity or abundance or those false dicotomies ideas  that are popular.
(see also emotion wheel).

********Overthinking part 3
Thought loops:
Thought loops are those things where at least two thoughts create a "no win" situation for myself.
The simplest and easiest example: In a social situation
When I am quiet; I am being boring
When I am talking: I am being annoying
So it becomes a damned if I do and damned if I do not.
The thought loops keep me "stuck in my head" and also keep me from being present.
It is possible that your thought loops are different or would use different words, so the first step is identifying your thought loops and recognizing the problem of these thought loops.   To go a little deeper thought loops are often covering a fear such as the fear that "no one will like me".
********
Overthinking part 4  Why can't I?
Just things that you can write down when they happen and get a sense of the overall way your thoughts work and see if there are any you want to change...

For example a long time ago I used to think "Why can't I....XYZ?"

it is a great one, and I realized it makes a terrible assumption under neath it. The assumption was that I was incapable/lazy/defective/etc

It would have or was better to start asking "why do I struggle to do XYZ?"

That is an easy example of changing a thought pattern and noticing what the assumptions are, and then changing the assumptions and the thoughts. If that makes sense?

I may discover that the reason that I struggle is ADD and that might mean that the reason is not b/c of me being defective or anything else. Perhaps I struggle because of that and maybe I need to do that thing in a different way than all the neurotypical people....

So I need to write my thoughts down to analyze them and sort all that out.
*******
Overthinking part 5
The depression cycle....
This cycle is often said to start with "depressive thinking style" or rumination, one of the most interesting things about rumination is that I do not have  to do it.
The result is feelings of anxiety and hopelessness...

resulting  in emotionally aroused state with continued rumination

Leading to the mind  still trying to "solve" the problem by "over-dreaming" too much REM and not enough restorative (deep sleep), so waking with more tiredness/exhaustion (regardless of the amount of sleep)..this impacts both self-care and positive experiences from happening...

Which feeds into the depressive thinking style......Not to mention the accelerated aging that comes with stress and the elevated cortisol levels...

One reason that people do not watch movies like Schindler's List on a daily basis, there is a certain amount of mental energy taken up in things like that.

The suicide rate in the US keeps increasing, and it may be that people have been presented with problems that they feel incapable of doing anything about, creating the depressive thinking styles....hopelessness/helplessness

Once I thought way too much about human trafficing and it would keep me awake and interfere with sleep, I started thinking what can I realistically do?
My answers were I can help people who had been trafficed to try and obtain a sense of safety and normality to life and relationships; and I can help people struggling with  porn addiction to recognize their role in making it profitable.
********
Overthinking part 6
Intrusive thoughts? AKA unwanted/unwelcome/involuntary thoughts....includes images, sensations, urges and feeling; that are upsetting/distressing, feel difficult to manage/eliminate. Most people (the norm) have experienced these at one point or another, usually due to stress in life. Internalize something wrong with me = broken/disgusting  and shame/guilt.

Most common intrusive (loud/demanding/dark) thought categories
1.  Harm to self (what if I drive off the road?)
2.  Harm to others (what if I push this person down the stairs? What if I harm this
    baby/child?)
3.  Sexual thoughts
4.  Immoral or religious
5.  Self doubts / mistakes
6.  Contamination/Illness
7.  Past trauma (flash backs, etc)

Short list of potential Sources: Anxiety, depression -including post partum, OCD, PTSD

Thought does not equal action.....
ERP

Do not click on the "link" to the intrusive thought
The rabbit hole of meaning, etc
Noticing that is an intrusive thoughts "the bully" "the thoughts"
"Thank you mind for that thought"

Cognitive fusion is looking though your thoughts and believing them to be true;
Cognitive defusion is de fusing from your thoughts, having a thought, but not believing it.  Looking at your thoughts rather than through your thoughts.
"I am an idiot" vs "I am having the thought that I am an idiot" vs.
"I am noticing that I am having the thought I am an idiot."

YouTube TedxIdahoFalls
#OCD: Starving the Monster

Overcoming Unwanted Intrusive Thoughts: A CBT-Based Guide to Getting Over Frightening, Obsessive, or Disturbing Thoughts March 1, 2017
by Sally M. Winston PsyD, Martin N. Seif PhD
********
Overthinking part 7
As a substitute for action/learning......
Thinking is not a substitute for  action/learning it is a trap that people fall into.
Thinking about  social situations rather than being in and present for the experience..thinking about it before hand, then focused on self during and then ruminating after...limited benefit.  Similar to the choice paradox.

learning a martial art...all arts are flawed (no perfect art) therefore seeing the flaws no need to learn, just continue to pontificate on the overt problems of the martial art....

How does the tool of thinking being "overused" play out in real life, one is of course the life path of "gifted children" or another example is the annual earnings of say members of MENSA....
Again thinking is not a substitute for learning/experiences...

It might be a solid reason that people find partners after they "give up" or "stop looking".  It is most likely that they were looking for reasons to strike a person out, and when they stopped looking for reasons to immediately discard that person they actually had the opportunity to get to know someone.

***********Research?
Young People's Voices on Climate Anxiety, Government Betrayal and Moral Injury: A Global Phenomenon
23 Pages
Posted: 7 Sep 2021
Elizabeth Marks
University of Bath

Caroline Hickman
University of Bath

Panu Pihkala
University of Helsinki

Susan Clayton
College of Wooster

Eric R. Lewandowski
New York University (NYU) - NYU Langone Health

Elouise E. Mayall
University of East Anglia (UEA)

Britt Wray
Stanford University

Catriona Mellor
Oxford Health NHS Foundation Trust

Lise van Susteren
Independent

Abstract
Background: Climate change has significant implications for the health and futures of children and young people, yet they have little power to limit its harm, making them vulnerable to increased climate anxiety. Qualitative studies show climate anxiety is associated with perceptions of inadequate action by adults and governments, feelings of betrayal, abandonment and moral injury. This study offers the first large-scale investigation of climate anxiety in children and young people globally and its relationship to government response.

Methods: We surveyed 10,000 young people (aged 16-25 years) in ten countries. Data were collected on their thoughts and feelings about climate change, and government response.

Findings: Respondents were worried about climate change (59% very or extremely worried, 84% at least moderately worried). Over 50% felt sad, anxious, angry, powerless, helpless, and guilty. Over 45% said their feelings about climate change negatively affected their daily life and functioning, and many reported a high number of negative thoughts about climate change. Respondents rated the governmental response to climate change negatively and reported greater feelings of betrayal than of reassurance. Correlations indicated that climate anxiety and distress were significantly related to perceived inadequate government response and associated feelings of betrayal.

Interpretation: Climate change and inadequate governmental responses are associated with climate anxiety and distress in many children and young people globally. These psychological stressors threaten health and wellbeing, and could be construed as morally injurious and unjust. There is an urgent need for increases in both research and government responsiveness.
******
Humor? Captain Obvious.....
I have to have belief/confidence in my value in order to be ok face to face with real life rejection/humiliation.
Those are thing like: "Why are you talking to me?" "What makes you think I want to talk to you?" "Go away!"
Patent pending answer(s) go here....
"I thought this was a social event and everyone was here to socialize"
"Your RBF made you look sad and lonely."

***********Anxiety Thoughts Expectations
Things are linked in real ways, my anxiety is linked to my thoughts and that creates my expectations.
The problem is usually the thoughts they are either positive (toxic) or negative.
So if I think all positive thoughts, I will keep my anxiety low, but set my expectations to perfection.  In that way as soon as one thing goes wrong, I cannot stand it, i lose my mind.  I often call this the bridezilla outcome.

All negative thoughts and then my expectations are low, but my anxiety gets set to dread and I end up dreading the holiday with the family coming in December, but it is only October.....


The problem with both thought patterns is they are absolutes and often demands on myself, others or the universe.

I should instead replace the thoughts with preferences.  I would prefer XYZ not happen, but if it does I will not stay for it, instead I will take a break...

Replacing the thoughts gives me the ability to handle it and allows me to problem solve the things I imagine might happen..

**********Patterns
This is unfortunately a pattern that often comes up, that a person may do/say horrible things along the way of the relationship, and they are waiting for the one time for you to "mess up" they then use that cudgel to mercilessly beat their victim into submission, all the while being the victim. In transactional analysis they sometimes refer to this as a "game"; this one is known as "I've got you now you son of a bitch". It is about control and domination.

I often say this is where one person becomes the Judge, the other person becomes the permanent defendant, on constant trial.  This does not work.  Another way of looking at this is one person is punishing the other, while one is hoping the punishment will end.  One person thinks they are "trying to get better" or "trying to forgive".  The difference between pergatory and hell, is that pergatory eventually ends, and hell is forever.

Is this drama unfolding privately between just the two of you or is the judge making sure to share with everyone else the exact nature of your "wrongs"?  Setting you up to be the "bad person" or villian whilst they can play the role of "Victim"?

What if this pattern continues for 5 minutes, days, weeks, months, years?  What amount of stress would the "defendant" be under?

See also: Noun. crybully (plural crybullies) (derogatory) A person who engages in intimidation, harassment, or other abusive behaviour while claiming to be a victim.

So if there are many different ways to describe a thing, perhaps that thing is a real thing, and maybe I am in the middle of it?
*****
Sometimes a pattern can happen, and the content keeps changing, but the pattern holds up over time.
Here is an "example" of how a common pattern might happen.
A wife tells her husband not to move her garden beds, and also tells him a bit about her plans....

He gets overzealous and convinces himself, how amazing it is going to be if he goes ahead and does it for her (thought pattern to get to the awesome ending).  She will love me so much for my help!
So he does move them.

She now feels that he did not listen to her wishes, disrespecting her in a major way.
She tells him it is "wrong", is upset and hurt.

He hears "wrong" as rejection and ends up hurt as well.
Hurt can "act out" or it can "act in" (such as depression).

Seeing him hurting, (when her point of view) is that she is the one who has reason to be hurt, it swiftly becomes anger.

For those familiar with Winnie the Pooh
This is like the character of Rabbit receiving "help" from the enthusiastic Tigger
who helps in the garden by stomping on some pumpkins....

********FOGs
It is your decision what you take on as your responsibility. I usually say in these types of situations that once I take on the responsibility for something, I then have the FOGs (fear, obligation, guilt and shame). For example if I am fearful (F) that my grandfather will fall down, then I may feel (O) obligated to check on him, and then when I do not I get to feel (G) guilty, and if something does happen I end up feeling the (S) shame of failure/regret/recrimination (fault/blame). But the truth is it was never my responsibility (he has three sons, including my father)....if instead I thought "What can I realistically do?" perhaps I would decide he needs a life alert (you know from the "help I have fallen and I can't get up" commercials?).

The other part is if I take it on alone, then other people get a free pass to not help or offer to help...."Oh Freddy is handling this, I don't want to get in his way/step on his toes."

Then other people can "control" or influence you via the guilt/shame tactics.


Other popular things...Make the other person happy....
I did not love them enough, in the right way or at the right time, I failed to meet their needs, failed to love them well enough,

Make it (marriage) work...if I take on the full responsibility...what do I need to do?
all the "right things" and still not working....

In School, I take on the responsibility to "do well" and financial support (makes it murky)....so the Fear is I will not do well, feel obligated to do my "best", and when I do not do my best, I feel guilt, then if I fail, I get to feel shame for letting my family down....

Study time cannot be 8 hours a day, or 6, or 4....and most people cannot study more than 2 hours a day, and really absorb material.

Not even touching on grief, regret, fault/blame, resentment, bitterness, etc etc....

*********
Choice Paradox
It is indeed a big problem, and I know that lots of people are in the midst of struggling in this area, and many others related to what is often referred to as the choice paradox, in brief they thought if you increase choices, that increases freedom and in turn happiness.  However this leads everyone into analysis paralysis, and then after making a choice a constant state of disappointment, and then fear of missing out (FOMO).
So in applying this to life in general obviously some choices need more time than others and tons of people make choices and then "look" to see if the choice was the wrong one.  I use the example of choosing between a vacation in Greece or New Zealand, and then no matter which one you choose, if it rains one of the days, you will check the weather in the other place, and if it is nice weather, you will "ruin" the vacation you have.  The thing to do would be not to even check that weather, and leave your phone out of your hand.  If that makes sense?


>>>>>>
I recently came across a variation of the Eisenhower decision matrix, where the 4 quadrants are some dicotomy of urgent/important.
I was not sure if this so called focus matrix is worth going into deeply, it mostly seems to be a matter of symantics, but I do think that renaming or changing the scope or definitions can help to add clarity....
I have heard things called purpose, the idea that there is a layering to purpose, the lesser purpose, is surface level, the greater purpose (might point to something deeply rooted); with a pull inward to discover your core or deepest purpose......I generally say that meaning/purpose is anything that you choose to invest time in.  If that all makes sense?
This message was last edited by the GM at 02:09, Sat 30 Dec 2023.
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