Funny thing. While there were definitely crewmen and women in TOS, once we got to the TNG era, Roddenberry kind of nixed them out. His perspective was that the whole ship was crewed by astronauts, highly skilled but well rounded individuals. So while there were still ranks, everyone was an officer. Kinda silly, really. There were oddballs like Chief O'Brien, but he was actually shown as a Lieutenant for much of TNG.

https://memory-alpha.fandom.co...lematic_rank_history

Interestingly, the character of Enrique Muniz in DS9 was a great example of an enlisted engineer aboard the Defiant.  But yes, some of the 80s RPGs suggested there WERE no enlisted on a Constitution-class ship, which is just... silly, to anyone who knows how the Navy works.

It's like...they wanted it to be a military organization while not being a military organization.

So, how's our new player?  :D  Ready to join?

It's all just labels, regardless of if they called them officers or not, there were still people who job it was to be at the bottom.

Every four or five years at my last place of employ, the front line staff demanded a name change, thinking whatever they were called was 'demeaning', but as the job remained the same, nothing else really changed, and soon enough they wanted to change the title again.

In reply to PO Amamiya Azami (msg # 301):

PO Azami - I’m definitely ready to join in! Just tell me when and where.

Absolutely.

There are some important details, mind.  If everyone starts at Ensign, everyone can get anywhere via promotion (I mean, loads won't, but it's possible).

If some people start as non-commissioned, if they want to actually have the capacity to be promoted to a commissioned rank, they need to go to the academy and take courses, then come out as a commissioned type.  Barring something really weird happening, Petty Officers don't get promoted to Lieutenants, as an example.



^_^

The boss will hopefully give you a starting point soon!

Warrant officers are another exception. They're an Army thing, but there might be equivalences.

A lot of things enlisted do in our world though, could be done with tech in the Star Trek universe.

There is a lot that can be done with tech in Trek that, for most of its history, hasn't been. They didn't start showing the use of drones/robots for ship maintenance until very recently. Discovery/Lower Decks.

Assuming Starfleet sticks to a quasi-military format, I think enlisted ranks still make a lot of sense.

Money/accumulation of wealth may or may not be a primary motivation at the core of the Federation, but personal accomplishment and prestige clearly IS, certainly within Starfleet. See the TNG episode Tapestry for a main character example.

In reply to LCDR Christopher Decker (msg # 306):

They could have the format without the title. Nothing stops the Army from calling privates Lieutenants if they want to.

That said, you do see that the mess hall is replaced with tech (except in Voyager) and there is clearly no reason to dig latrines anymore.

"They could have the format without the title. Nothing stops the Army from calling privates Lieutenants if they want to."

True, but ranks aren't just a single continuum. There is a pretty clear distinction between the kinds of responsibilities that enlisted and commissioned personnel have and the work that they do. Obviously Starfleet could use some of the terminology of traditional military structures while using them completely differently, but WHY?  I think a better answer is that the writers often don't have a very good idea of how these things work in the real world.

Agreed, no one is digging ditches or serving slop on board a starship, but all that tech needs to be *maintained*. Trek has very deliberately minimized the amount of work that's taken on by AI. Worf could just press the 'Fight' button on his console and let a much smarter and much FASTER AI coordinate the battle, but that's now how it's done (and obviously, from a story and TV presentation perspective, it would be a hell of a lot less satisfying).

So, it seems to me, that on a Starfleet ship there are still going to be a lot of 'doers', with a smaller number of planners, decision makers, and leaders. It's why I try to make a point that Decker is spending a lot of time assigning tasks to people in his department and then collating the results of their work to communicate it to the Captain. All those various specialists in the Science department have to earn their credits (or do they?) and make him look good! ;)

In reply to LCDR Christopher Decker (msg # 308):

Wow, that was a long way to go to agree with me.

*checks in*

Everything okay?  Hopefully no emergencies?

Not dead.  Trying to get back on my feet, got sidetracked with a ton of RL stuff.  :(

In reply to Starfleet Command (msg # 311):

No problem - understandable!

Awesome.  Glad you aren't dead, and glad the game is still hopefully around!

But real life always comes first!

I think I'm giving up role playing.It has been fun, in fact my main form of fun, for decades, but I have lost interest.

Please remove me from this game.

Very sorry to hear, Dr. Layne!

...also sorry this didn't go anywhere.  But such is life.

It's not this game, I had no issues with waiting, it is that I no longer seem to enjoy role-playing. Though I too wish it had gone somewhere...

Best of luck to all of you in all your gaming!

Sorry to hear that. For what it's worth, I really enjoyed our interactions. If you're no longer enjoying a past-time, though, it definitely doesn't make sense to continue. Take care.

Sorry to see you go, Dr. Layne.  I'll remove you from the game as per your request.

Working the two jobs I've been doing is unsustainable, frankly, and it's chased out all my fun-, hobby- and leisure-time.  I'm hoping to make a change in September.

Sorry to hear, Starfleet.  I'm still around, and hopefully others will be.

Well, happy new year to everyone, I hope you're all doing okay!  :D

And to you, Azami.
May the year be awesome for everyone here.

Hope this year's better for everyone!

I hope it's great for both of you!  :D

I am still here, as always.  ^_^