I had no idea all that was going on...I mean, that's good as a DM. When I first DMed that was a huge flaw of mine--telling players what was going on behind the scenes. And very recently, (a couple days before reading this) I realized it helps the story a great deal if they are in the dark. You can tell them to keep 'player' and 'character' knowledge separate, but the two always get mixed.

It is a really good story--what you crafted. I have to say though--it was easier to make the decision not to affect anything when it felt like everything Fithelos did was wrong or would make people's lives worse.

It is interesting you say I have an ability to tell a story. Every time I've ever run a campaign (to this day) I am not very confident in the stories I tell. There is a constant state of anxiety that surrounds my brain, usually telling me the players are getting bored and that any of them could come up with something far more interesting/entertaining/intriguing etc.
There is a rather...large campaign I've been constructing. It has crossed my mind more than once to have Curulambnero return. It would be 5e rules and stuff though--and I wasn't sure if you'd want that character to transition over. Reason being, I have characters I've played I won't ever play again because they are kind of like legends now. I don't want to tarnish their memory by having them come back and then getting killed by a giant sloth or anything. (That happened).

Anyhow. I'd like to keep playing Fithelos. I'm kind of sorry he didn't go through other parts of Britannia. Once he screwed up on that ship--his desire to try and help anyone else fizzled out.
For Fithelos, since making a pact with a Demon--whenever he makes a decision, part of him believes being bound to Fraz-Urb'luu taints the decisions he makes. This mode of thinking is reinforced when he tries to do something good and it backfires on him.
Ultimately, he would be hesitant to take any action. Because Balance picked him, he felt it meant that maybe he could be the adventurer he once was.

Which ended up not being the case.

Anyhow, I find this story most fascinating. It may not seem that way because when my ex bombards me with hate texts/emails it really, really disrupts my brain. I know I shouldn't let it get to me, that I shouldn't care--but it throws me off. For weeks. I dwell on it when I know I shouldn't. I spend too much time being incredibly angry and depressed.
Very poor decisions have I made in life.
I suppose this campaign resonated on multiple levels for me. I know it's just a game, but it's a game that means a lot to me on a personal level.

I will cease writing now.
I do want to continue with Fithelos. Your world is better constructed than any campaign I've played in before. And what's more--unlike 99% of campaigns I've ever played in, (in the past 20+ years) YOUR questlines have beginnings, middles and ends. I've usually only played beginnings and middles. I've only reached endpoints in your campaigns and the very first RPG campaign I ever played (Werewolf the Apocalypse).

And I say endpoint, because while there can be more story to tell, I am able to close a chapter of Fithelos. I'd much rather have that than players that fade away into obscurity.

Okay. Back to Inventory and Map crap.
This message was last edited by the GM at 23:22, Fri 16 Aug 2019.

In reply to Fithelos (msg # 3):

Thank you for your compliments and advice.

I've always thought of DnD as an infinite number of dimensions. If you bring a Curu into existence in a new campaign, it's not necessarily my Curu. Even if I play him, he doesn't have to be the original Curu. In the campaign I've been working on, they aren't your Findello or Djuras. That way, if they died or accomplish something you don't like, in your world, it never happened.

Finally, if it bugs you that much, you might consider therapy or drugs. Myka will do the same thing when she isn't medicated. It's not good to be depressed like that a lot. It wears you down. It's okay to get help.

Now, stop posting on this topic, because I want to leave this open for those side stories.
This message was last edited by the GM at 23:22, Fri 16 Aug 2019.

When you arrive in Vesper, you "meet" a group of Dwarves selling leatherware and a supply shop.  Later that day, a trip to the bank reveals Vesper has its own smelting operation for precious metals.  Throughout the day, each time you see Dwarves, they are not dealing in metal or stone.  Moradin's race of master miners and blacksmiths, deal in leather and cloth.
In the beginning you brush it off; this is, after all, an isolated nation.  As strange as it would be to see back in Faerûn, it may just be commonplace in Britannia.  In the middle of the night, on your way to the smuggler's ship, your path takes you around the Dwarven city of Minoc.  A town, at the foot of the mountains, named "Minoc", inhabited by Dwarves that don't mine, smelt, or forge.  What's worse, the town was falling apart, and the Dwarves were scavenging through trash.  Something was off, but you had more important things to deal with.

What happened with Minoc and Vesper?

A Tale of Two Cities

Minoc was once a thriving Dwarven city, known throughout the land for their extraordinary work with metals and stone.  The island nation, however, did not have an endless supply of raw materials for the Dwarves to work with.  Moradin, proud of their ability to create nearly flawless items, imbued the entire mountain with natural regeneration.  Given enough time, the entire mountain could be regenerated from a single pebble.

Vesper, however, was not doing nearly as well.  They tried to build the ultimate port city.  The buildings themselves were built right on top of the harbor and connected by a series of bridges.  This was more for show than anything else, and it worked, for a time.  Vesper had two things working against it.  First, Minoc basically controlled all of the exports.  Vesper's skilled workforce were architects and builders.  Once Vesper stopped building, they began to leave to find jobs in the capital.  Which brings me to the second issue, Britain (Lord British named pretty much everything after himself), being more centrally located around the islands, was booming.  A city as large as Britain had need of every import and export known to the nation.

Then, The Isolation Event happened.  Moradin's power, along with every other god's power, could only trickle in.  Minoc mined faster than the mountain could regenerate.  The dug deeper than they had ever before trying to keep up with requests around the islands.  When the first group dug into the nest of the beast, no one even realized what had happened until the end of the working day when they just didn't return.  The first rescue mission was completely doomed.  They were equipped to dig out their brethren, not fight.  When they didn't return, they knew there was something down there.  The town had no formal army to speak of, but a two clerics and five of the town's guards decided to gear up.  Even if it were too late for their friends, they had to go in.

The entire town showed up to support the small troop on that fateful night.  At the mouth of the cave, they gathered, prayed, prepared for the troop's return.  Two hours later, they saw a figure of one of the cleric's walking out, but something was wrong.  He wasn't actually walking.  His feet and arms weren't moving.  He was just floating out.  Then they saw it.  With one "arm" a spider-like beast was carrying their friend in front of him.  By the time they realized it, it was too late to save anyone setup near the cave opening.  It tossed the lifeless body to the ground and began digging it's arms into any Dwarf that was too close.  Each time someone was hit, they would fall limp.  Unfortunately for them, the torment wouldn't stop there.  As the creature completely exited the cave, they could see its back was transparent and filled with the souls of their friends.  A full third of the town was consumed before a few quick-thinking elders were able to push it back into the cave and seal it inside.

They had planned to call upon Lord British for help, but found out killing the beast would doom their friends and family to an eternity with it.  No one could make the call.  The dwarves, cutoff from the bulk of Moradin's power, decided they would wait until Isolation was broken and Moradin could help them release the souls from the beast, before killing it.

…

Without the mines, the Dwarves of Minoc turned to other forms of craftsmanship.  Vesper hired a group to build a mint in the basement of the bank.  Vesper could now control precious metals and coinage throughout the islands.  Many of the elders of Vesper had also held a grudge against Minoc for what they saw as manipulation when shipping goods in and out of Vesper.  They acted quickly to drive down costs of the leather and cloth out of Minoc by artificially deflating the value of the goods.

By the time you watched the transaction between the Dwarves and Sisende, Vesper had pretty much destroyed the Dwarven city.  Their goods were still masterfully crafted, and worth every gold piece and more.  They probably would have been able to survive until the day Isolation was broken and they could return to the old ways, but jealousy and greed miles away was delighting the downfall of the Dwarves.

You had a horrible realization aboard Orso's ship.  His group didn't just smuggle fancy wines, stolen scrolls, or forbidden fruits; they were human traffickers, though I use the term "human" loosely here.  You caused a problem for them, but you held back.  They weren't trafficking children, and you were sure Balance wanted you to stay out of everyone else's business.

How did Orso get into trafficking?  Why were Krunk and Tasha so willing to help him?  Where did all of these people come from?

A Slave's Wage

As a child, Orso had a natural talent for music.  It served him well on the streets of Trinsic, begging for food or coin during the day, tending to his ill father in the evenings.  When his father passed, Orso being to young to be a land owner, his house was taken by city and kicked Orso to the streets.  Orso began to play his own songs he wrote in his father's memory.  He found he was able to see his own music and voice spread out around him.  People responded more to his own songs as well.  He rarely went a day without food, many times ending up with enough to share with others.

At 15, the halfling finally started to feel as though he wasn't going to be struggling for the rest of his life.  He was regularly performing at a few taverns.  But it wasn't meant to be.  Most cities would tolerate children on the street.  How terrible it would look if they kicked kids into the wilderness or sent them to the work the local mine or lumber yards?  Orso wasn't a child anymore, though not yet a man.  He couldn't get his own place, even if he could afford to, so the city arrested him for vagrancy.  At first it didn't seem such a terrible fate.  He was fed, clothed, housed, and he enjoyed playing music for his fellow inmates with whatever "instrument" they could string together.   But then the mill came looking for "recruits".  You see Trinsic was a scholarly city.  Mages and counselors, theaters, schools, and libraries were in every district.  That meant they needed an abundance of paper, quills, and ink.  The mill was the hardest and most dangerous work of all, and would need to replace people that went missing monthly.  Trinsic provided the laborers, the mill, in return, provided blank scrolls and books.

Orso was chosen mostly because of his size.  He was given the most dangerous job of clearing different jams throughout the equipment.  He would be deep inside the belly of some machinery, blades whirring overhead, trying to kick free a log, his only safety net a rope around his belly.  It wasn't much of a comfort, he was sure it was just to pull his body out before he got too much blood on the product. While servicing equipment one afternoon, a friend was holding his ladder steady.  Orso dislodged a branch, but it knocked him back, the ladder with him, toward a grinder.  Orso closed his eyes.  He wasn't scared of death anymore.  He had nothing left to live for.  He waited for the end, but it didn't come.  Instead he felt his friend catch him and heard the grinder, well, grind to a halt.  When he opened his eyes, he saw his friend with a tear rolling down his cheek, but a smile on his face.
"Your songs can't die, Orso.  Not today."  Then the smile faded.
Orso looked in horror when he saw what stopped the grinder.  His friend had a metal plate on his back from a previous injury.  The grinder crushed the plate into his friend, but could not pull it through it's teeth, leaving all three a jumbled mess.

…

Orso's depression lasted weeks, maybe months.  Time didn't really matter any more.  Several times he found himself considering following a rogue branch into the machinery when knocking it loose.  His friends words stuck with him though.  He had wanted nothing more than to give back to society with his music, but he was a prisoner at the mill until it killed him.  He started to notice something about the equipment though.  The gears, the hammers, the pistons, the grinders, the saws, the wood and metal banging into each other as the trees were pulled from the front of the factory; it was music.  How had he not heard it before?  When one of the masters were distracted Orso climbed to the top of the walkway and began conducting.  The other works saw him point and turn and raise and lower his hands.  It didn't take long for them to realize what he was doing.  They began to follow his movement.  Stopping and starting equipment when he'd point at them, push them harder when he'd raise his hand, pull them back as he lowered it.  By the time the masters realized what was going on, Orso had already composed his greatest piece yet.  A death march.  The masters, who would beat them, starve them, and sometimes kill them if they were having a particularly bad day, began to walk to whatever equipment they were closest to, and get in.  His orchestra didn't even seem to notice what was going on, like they were in a trance.  Orso's eyes were closed as blood would splatter across him each time another master was cut or smashed.

When his song was over, Orso ran as fast and as far as he could.  He decided, from this point forward, anyone willing to give back to society, no matter their ability, should be given a chance.  Those who can but refuse, should still be treated fairly.  He would have been willing to work the mill, had they paid a livable wage or at least fed and housed him properly.

…

Years passed, Orso has become a master of story and song.  He used his talents to build a business, moving (willing) people and goods to places other shippers wouldn't.  It didn't matter to Orso whether it was legal or difficult.  It was when he was asked to move two wild animals to one of the small, uninhabited islands, that everything finally fell into place.  What animals could possibly be so dangerous, they'd have them removed from civilization, but not just killed?  For the first time in his career, he decided to open the crate.  He began by playing a calming song.  When he was sure the animals would be too docile to attack, he knocked open the lid.  Inside lay Tasha and Krunk.  Two unwilling, unknowing people.

No one knows how Tasha and Krunk became friends, but they protected each other.  When the lid was knocked open, Tasha, trying to fight off Orso's magical tune, held a blade up between Orso and Krunk.  The girl was not even half Krunk's size, but was determined to keep Orso away from him.

Orso befriended them.  Gave them both music lessons and a share of anything and everything he had.  They started to work together and everything moved much quicker after that.  They became known by the cities for transporting "vagrants" to other cities.  Few knew they were actually just moving people to places where they could be accepted and find jobs, which is all most of the people wanted anyhow.

They struck a deal with the pirates you met when Orso and his mates were taken on the high seas.  The captain was looking for bodies to work the mines, but Orso was too small, Krunk was too stupid, and Tasha was a mute with sticky fingers.  Orso agreed to supply him with bodies if the captain could promise the working conditions were nothing like the mill earlier in his life.  The pirate laughed and invited him to the island of Hythloth.  A dangerous island, inhabited by Dragons, but somehow the pirates had a truce to use the land on the eastern side of the island.  Orso was astonished.  Though everyone was originally captives, everyone appeared to be happy.  The captain told Orso he had always worked harder when the reward was greater.  He treated his men, both pirates and men and women of the island, firmly but fairly.  They rarely needed to replace "missing" workers.  While death was inevitable out here, most would age out of the mines or the fields.

The men in women in the crates that night were willing, though they weren't really sure what their relocation meant.  They had all been cast aside by their cities or towns.  Some had skills that were no longer useful, some had disabilities, but all were willing to start over if it meant they could be a part of something.

…

Was it right?  These people were told half-truths, beguiled by Orso, and could never leave the island.  The punishment for attempting to escape was being fed to the dragons.  If you managed to run away, entering the dragon's lands meant you were no longer protected by the treaty.  Try to swim?  The dragons would find you before you made it a quarter of the way to the nearest land.

Was it wrong?  The towns could get rid of what they saw as a stain on their society, the people would be fed real meals and have real homes, and they could contribute to their new society.

In the woods near Destard you met a father and son.  The family had lived in these woods for generations with the protection of Fraiti.  In return, they agreed to keep her race secret.  At the end of his rope, giving up on the lifestyle, the father spilled the beans, with very little prompting.  Before leaving, you gave him nearly 20,000 gold worth of fine gems.   While talking to Fraiti, she realizes her agreement with the family has been broken, and she no longer needs to protect the family from outside forces.  You try to bargain with her, saying it was your fault he gave away the information.  She doesn't buy it.  She knows you couldn't have forced the information out of them and still be so unaffected by her breath weapon.

What becomes of the Dask family after you're gone?

Circle of Life

Fraiti's deal with the family was to protect.  When the deal was broken, she just left them alone entirely.  She would not punish them, but they were on their own.

With the gems provided, Lomon went to Skara Brae and hired a group to clear out the Orcs, which is mostly what Fraiti kept at bay.  He figured she would know shortly he had broken the pact and wanted to be done with the Orcs before they realized she was no longer his family's guardian.  He never understood why Fraiti didn't just destroy the lot of them in the first place.

At first, things were going great.  With his new wealth, he was making connections, and had found a few families that would be willing to marry off their daughter when the children were older, for the right price.  He also invested in new hunting, camping, and fishing gear, as well as a few horses and livestock.  Without the Orcs to bother him, there was nothing left to worry about, besides maybe a wandering serpent now and again.  Nothing a few basic traps couldn't stop, right?

The problem was the Orcs kept the forest balanced.  They had been there long before Trinsic was built or the Dask family setup.  The silver serpent they tried to use to spook you backfired horribly, but that was a very rare occurrence.  The Orcs new how to trap some of the most deadly creatures in the forest.  They also knew how to properly prepare them, and were considered a delicacy among the few tribes left.  Once the Orcs were wiped from the forest, there was nothing to keep those other creatures in check.  The forest around Trinsic and Destard became extremely dangerous.  Grizzly, serpent, and spider population began to grow out of control.

Lomon had to spend more and more time setting traps and clearing them.  Eventually he had to hire out the work and his home the forest started to be more of an industrial looking complex.

There was something else in the forest stirring.  The Orcs had one other important role to play in the forest.  Every year the tribes would gather to perform a ritual of death.  They would sacrifice a child from each tribe to appease Aajill an evil spider deity who had been stuck on the island since Isolation.  When the ritual was missed, Aajill grew impatient and decided to find it's own sacrifice.  When it came upon the complex, it knew they were responsible for the missing Orcs who had kept it fed.  No one survived.  Finally satisfied, Aajill decided the complex would be where it would now slumber.  Aajill destroyed the complex and returned to the ground to slumber another year.

The first person you meet in this isolated world almost immediately knows your from Faerûn.  Is there access here from the Underdark?  If so, why didn't you see more Drow?

It Take One to Know One

Sisende was born into a wealthy family in Menzoberranzan.  Before heading off to train at Melee-Magthere, his family was 10th in rank and hoping Sisende's training would help push them eventually into a spot on the council.  Sisende was 3rd ranked in class, behind the eldest boy of the 3rd ranked house (as to be expected), and behind the youngest of the 12th ranked house.  This was not only shameful for Sisende, but it meant that Lolth favored the 12th house over his.

With Lolth's favor on their side, the 12th ranked house decided to march against Sisende's family.  In Menzoberranzan, houses marching against each other is completely legal, assuming the house attacked is completely wiped.  If one member of a house remains to accuse the attacking house, it would mean the end of the attacking house.  Without the favor of Lolth, Sisende's house was backed into a corner, so they decided to send their eldest boy and his sister, a priestess of Lolth, away.  They were to hide on the edge of the city until the fighting began, to have proof they witnessed the 12th attacking, hide in the caves surrounding the city, then return three days later to accuse the 12th if they were not victorious.

Secrets travel fast in Menzoberranzan.  Before the 12th attacked, several assassins found the two siblings and chased them down.  They ran deep into the caves, but their attackers continued to hunt them.  After several weeks, many deadly creatures, and several assassination attacks, Sisende's sister was felled by a red mushroom cloud.    He could accuse the 12th house and bring them down, but he would have to find a house willing to take him in.  As a male, he had few rights and could not have a house of his own.

Sisende knew now he could never return to Menzoberranzan.  With assassins at his back, he did the only thing he knew that would stop them.  He surfaced.  Coming out near the edge of the Lurkwood forest, near the road to Mirabar, Sisende hit his only bit of luck he would see on his current journey, a group of blind monks.  Sisende took a chance with them, knowing Drow were hated among all surface dwellers.
They accepted him and even allowed him to train with them.  It wasn't until they arrived in Mirabar they realized he was no ordinary elf.  Though disappointed, they understood his position and decided he could stay with them.  As they traveled to Mirabar and then to Luskan, the monks protected him.  Several fights broke out over his presence.  Sisende knew it was a matter of time before he would cause too many problems for the monks, and decided he needed to make it on his own.

One evening in Luskan, Sisende stole a small ship, sailing it for weeks, stopping on uninhabited islands to restock, until a storm destroyed it.  When Sisende woke up a few days later, he was under Bella's care.  It wasn't long after that when The Isolation Event happened.  Since then, Sisende has just been trying to make this new world a home.


Sisende's backstory was poorly written. I put him together kind of quickly after re-reading your backstory.  His purpose was to see if Fithelos could put aside his issues with the Drow to ask for help.  Bella, having already taken in an outsider, was happy to help you.  If Fithelos could have seen past his race, Fithelos would have had access to much more information about the island nation and what secrets it holds.  Much like Orso, Sisende has made friends all around and anywhere you went, Fithelos could have benefited from knowing him.

Of course, Fithelos so adamant that he do nothing other than retrieve the eye, it wouldn't have really helped.

This message was last edited by the GM at 02:25, Mon 19 Aug 2019.

The Aftermath

Had you shifted evil, Kirzurath would have entered the moral world when you returned to your campsite. From that point, chaos and death would have taken over Faerûn. There really wasn't much of an outline for this. Kirzurath would have left you alive to watch the world burn, knowing it was your choices that lead to it.

Had you shifted good, Khovher would have rewarded you a few ways. First, he would have purchased your soul from Fraz-Urb'luu. Second, he would have healed your leg. Finally, he would have made you his paladin. You would feel compelled to be lawful good. In all situations, knowing deep down the law didn't always make exceptions for starving kids or someone killing to protect their family.

Either way, you're answer would lie in Britannia, but you would've kept all of your memories of the events that had unfolded. That would've made it a much easier quest to return, but then you would have to find a way to undo everything once you got there.

I don't know if these links will work or not.  Let me know if they don't and I can send these to you another way.

Titan of Balance
https://onedrive.live.com/view...D-459E02D588B4%2F%29
onenote:https://d.docs.live.net/60bdce...59E02D588B4}&end

Titan of Good
https://onedrive.live.com/view...D-E386CDE6D6F4%2F%29
onenote:https://d.docs.live.net/60bdce...386CDE6D6F4}&end

Titan of Evil
https://onedrive.live.com/view...3-DA02DD97AAB5%2F%29
onenote:https://d.docs.live.net/60bdce...A02DD97AAB5}&end

Alternate Endings

Accepting Dylian's Offer As Is
Had you not requested Eberron, you were to be put back in your body the day you were ambushed in the Underdark.
Instead of being descended upon by the Drow, just before you would all hear a bloody battle take place deeper in the cave.  Illuminated by flashes of holy light, you would get glimpses of the Drow fighting a winged, sword-wielding combatant.  Silence, then the light would fade and you would hear footsteps your way.  The team would brace themselves as Curu, whose skin is changing from gold to a greenish-blue and wings of platinum being absorbed into his back, walks toward your group.  He sheaths his sword and says, "There is nothing here for you.  It was a setup from the beginning.  Return to the surface, and live to fight another day."

Your team would keep their guards up, but you would know he's right.  This is your second chance.

Fithelos soul had returned to his body before the ambush retaining all knowledge of events that transpired, including Britannia.

Refusing Curu's Hand Or Dylian's Offer
As you are pulled down, you feel suffocated by the hands.   There never seems to be bodies, just a constant flow of hands, ripping your body as they force you below.  What feels like an eternity later, you fall 20 feet to the ground, tumbling to soften the blow.  The grey has been replaced by a hot orange glow.  You stand up to take it in.  A river of lava flows  to your left.  Beyond that demons torturing people, forcing them to build a castle.  No, not build it, become a part of it.  People are being fed to the castle, being turned inside out, their entirety becoming a part of the living walls.  Something grabs you from behind.  You're powerless against it.
"Fraz-Urb'luu fails to claim his soul, the new Demon Prince Varkov claims you to build his kingdom."
This message was last edited by the GM at 14:23, Wed 07 Oct 2020.

Opal and Liz: I Guess You Have Companions Now

The entire trip to Shar's temple was a side quest so I'd have time to write more story.  I was absolutely not prepared for you to convince the head of the merchant's guild to do, well, anything.  You rolled well and appealed to his lust for gold and you skipped some steps.

Okay fine, let's look into the history of the region, see what all has been going on, adapt it to this campaign.  There are a few towns, they're good rest stops for goods to and from the coast.  There's a thieves guild hanging out in the forest near the mountains.  There was activity from a temple to Shar.  Okay, got my hook.

Towns nearby pay thieves to protect the temple, and what's trapped inside, thieves stop robbing caravans, profits soar.  The thieves guild held up their end, but also started playing politics, gaining extra power.  Head of the merchant's guild of Esmeltaran is tired of them and wants power, decides to attack the temple, then use the thieves inability to protect it as a way to unite the towns against the thieves.  It backfires, opening the first ring of protection inside the temple.  Shar's Acolytes had been imprisoned there outside of time for a century, have now begun working on a way to break the outer ring of protection around the temple itself.  The thieves cannot defeat the Acolytes, enlist the chosen of Selûne to perform a ritual to reseal the crypt.  Meanwhile, Orizor realizes his mistake, figures either you can correct it, or you're not really worth a boat.

Now here's where things go haywire on my side.

I wrote a little background for the Acolytes.
Shar is the goddess of lost things.  Forgetfulness is a version of lost things, the Acolyte's rituals allow them to remove things from existence.  Enough time and sacrifice, they could remove a mountain from existence (basically, everyone loses it to the point it never existed)
I wrote a little blurb of a background for Opal and Liz, who didn't even have names at the time
Followers of Selûne, they travel the countryside trying to prevent Shar from gaining power.  They've learned to spot signs of Shar's dealings, people suddenly not able to truly explain how they don't have a husband/father, gaps in memory, unexplained wounds.

Now these are fairly simple, but then you did a few things that weirdly tied it all together.
 1. You don't stop the Acolytes
   a. The Temple is erased
   b. Opal and Liz no longer have a deal with the Thieves and are considered unwelcome guests
 2. You offer Opal and Liz a ride to town
   a. This gives them a chance to chat with you, something I didn't really expect at any point
 3. You are very forthcoming with you inability to remember how you got a giant bite on your leg.
   a. This sounds like Shar's work
 4. You refuse to leave them behind in Esmeltaran
   a. I figured you didn't want companions, so I gave you an out, you didn't bite
 5. Since you didn't stop the Acolytes, a tenday or so later, they sacrifice themselves to completely wipe Esmeltaran and its people off the map
   a. You have another gap in your memory, how could you afford such an incredible ship
   b. Sounds like Shar's work
 6. You pick the Earth Mother to gather more information
   a. Had you joined them to the Earth Mother's true temple
      i. She isn't going to like you, you've done nothing for her, you are "friends" with a demon, you are covered in the ashes of the dead forced to do your bidding
      ii. You bring along the chosen of the Goddess of the Moon, a good friend of the Earth Mother, she invites you in, happy to help a friend of a friend


Your decision to ignore the map drawn for you in the dirt takes you from the Earth Mother to Samael.  Opal and Liz cannot ignore a message from their god and go without you.  They find out that you are to sail out and will likely be killed by what transpires and head back to your ship.  You never show up, saving their lives in the process.

Then, while talking to Curu, you ask to go to Eberron.  Okay fine, how does one get to Eberron?  Excerpt from a well thought-out post on rpg.stackexchange.com:

Alright, I'll use the moons, because he "befriended" and protected Selûne's followers.
This message was last edited by the GM at 14:33, Wed 07 Oct 2020.

The Library

The Library
+ No one knows how or why it exists.  Even the gods have no idea what brought it about.  It seems to exist outside of anything they have access to.  It seems to pop up now and again throughout time where people gather to gain knowledge for the sake of knowledge.
  - The Historians, for example, though they work for some dark powers, are just nerds who really want to know more about their areas of interest.  They do not gather information for the powers that be, they gather information for themselves.  The powers that be will consult them from time to time to see if they have any knowledge that helps.
  - If you abuse the Library's information to personal gain too much, the riddles' difficulties  increase significantly.
+ There is a library in every plane.  You may not enter a library if you are not from its plane of existence.
  - This hasn't been proven completely yet.  Since the requirement is mass knowledge for the sake of knowledge, many planes just don't have enough creatures to fit that requirement, especially in a single area at the same time.
+ You cannot damage anything in the library, including texts, librarians, shelves, other people
+ You cannot die in the library.  You may feel things like thirst, hunger, sleepiness, but you can ignore those feelings and they will go away.
+ There may be several entrances to the library across the material plane, but only one has ever been found at a given time.

Library Rooms
+ Moving from one room to another requires a riddle be solved.
+ The rooms seem infinite in every direction, however the librarians know "shortcuts" that allow them to traverse the entire room in 10 shelves or less.
+ Doors to other rooms don't exist until a librarian brings you to one.
+ The exit door is available at anytime just by wanting to exit.
+ You can roam the Library's rooms, but the layout does not seem to match the room's category.

Riddle Rooms
+ Each time you enter the library, the riddles get harder.  The first 2 or 3 entries are fairly easy.  They ramp up after that.
+ If multiple people enter together, they must each solve a riddle individually, plus one or more riddles together.
+ If you cannot solve a riddle, you cannot leave the room.  There is no exit from the library in riddle rooms.
+ The number of riddles you encounter seems random.  The library decides the number of riddles. 1d10+1 up to the number of riddles I'm prepared to give.

Librarians
+ The librarians can find books or shelves, as long as you have a card.
+ The librarians get confused if you do not have a card.
+ If you use a card you have and try to go somewhere else, they will always direct you to the place on the card.  Even if that place is in their room.  Though they know their room, they seem unable to direct you where to go without a valid card.
+ The librarians cannot leave their room.  They seem to know each other exists, but have no way to communicate to each other.
+ The librarians appear when you openly ask for help.
+ If you are loud, the librarian can force your silence.  There is no way to counter this.

Historians
+ Historians are all confident in each other's abilities and tend not to question someone else's area of expertise.
  - Bran (human male) is the most senior and the most successful historian they've ever had.  He has returned from the library 12 times.  Though his hypotheses seem crazy to you, other Historians trust he's on the right path.
  - Erl (human male) is a junior historian, and has not yet entered the library.  He's still studying the work of the previous geographic historian which entered the Library months ago, but has not come out.  Once he gets through that information, he will have to start entering the Library.
  - Kulweg (gnome male) has been studying the Library itself.  He's been in 5 times, but most of his information has been from others returning from the library.   He's tried but failed to put together information to help solve library riddles.
  - Marla (tiefling female) studies rituals.  Has only recently been dubbed a Senior Historian with a  single return from the library.

Card Catalog
+ The Card Catalog seems small for what the Library holds.
+ The Card Catalog works as a series of pulls
  - The first few pulls are to setup the catalog for the correct room (like the room for 'by author then by time')
  - The next few pulls will narrow it down by the categories of the room (like by John Smith in 1000 DR)
  - The next card would give you a specific book (like the 'Guide to Using a Spoon' by John Smith 1000 DR)
+ The card numbers seem randomly generated to anyone except the librarians they are randomly generated.  I wrote an app that complies with NIST random character generation and used it to create the cards.
+ You can have as many cards as you would like at once, but that means even more riddles.  Most Historians will take no more than 5 cards at once, and try to gather cards for the same or adjacent rooms.

Texts
+ All forms of writing are cataloged in the library on the original object they were written on.  Notes, books, engravings, cave paintings, etc. will all show up in the library.
+ When you pick a text, it is immediately translated to your most fluent language.
+ When you pick a text off the shelf, it is immediately replaced with another copy.
+ A text stops being updated when you pick it off the shelf.   You can pick up another copy off the shelf and it will have any updates that came between the first time you grabbed it and the second time you grabbed it, and so on each time you pick it off the shelf.
+ Texts you drop on the ground are removed when you exit the room.  You can ask the Librarian to remove the texts  if they are in your way.

Visit With the Earth Mother

First, imagine Tia Dalma from Pirates of the Caribbean.  How she looks, how she talks, her home…

"The Earth Mother always welcomes friends of the moon!" she says as she kicking open the door to her home.  She runs up to Liz and Opal, throwing her arms around them, leaving them covered in dirt everywhere she touches them.
She looks at you, pulls a jar out of her robes and says, "The dead do not belong here.  I welcome you as friends to the Moon, but they go in here before you may enter my house."
"You are covered in the ashes of the dead.  They go to the jar, or you get nothing from me."
You move the sand to the jar, as soon as she shuts the lid, she places it on a branch outside the home.  "Good now let us go inside for a drink!" she claps her hands as she says it and then walks inside.
Liz, never wanting to turn down a free drink, obliges, followed by Opal.

Once inside, you can see Liz is no longer happy with her free drink. Afraid to displease the woman, she lifts the mug to her mouth and takes a drink.  You see a fog poor out of the cup and onto the floor.  Liz says thank you and smiles, there's a bug stuck between her front teeth and what looks like moss on her upper lip.
"Finest swamp water in all of the Material Plane, Yes?"
Liz gulps, spits out the bug, and says, "It's definitely the best I've ever tasted.
"YOU!" she points at Opal.  "I can tell you are concerned for the moon.  It waxes, yet you still wane.  Temporary, I promise.  The Earth Mother is indebted to the Moon and will shield her, this I can promise."

"Now, Fithelos, you come seeking information… hmmm… " she runs to another room, you hear things smash around, then she returns with a potion bottle with a thick brown-black mixture. "Drink this, it is necessary for us to continue.

The concoction tastes like someone smashed a few berries together with feces.
Constitution roll DC 20.
Success: you choke it back, but feel nauseated.  "I finally have it balanced.  'Calypso's Fine Smoothies' will be a hit, I can feel it!"
Failure: you vomit, the woman throws a bowl in front of your face to catch all - well most - of it.  "Hmm, still to sweet."

"Now, there is much to do, literally the rest of your lives to do it.  We must get to work."
She grabs you by the arm to pull you into another room.  She sits on one side of a small table with a large misshapen crystal in the center, and gestures for you to sit next to her.  She grabs your hand, then picks up the crystal and stares at it.  As far as you can tell, nothing happens to the crystal, but her eyes have rolled back show only the whites.  They then appear to start filling up with a water.  Waves form and splash around inside.
"Though many believed the wizard teleported it to another realm, the island nation of Britannia was not lost to the material plane.  It stands today where it stood for centuries before.  Once encased the protective shell, the entire system was shrunk to the size of a marble.
The size and the shell have doomed the island nation.  It is almost entirely cut off from the weave and many natural cycles of life.  Toxins grow, powers wane, and soon there will not be enough  to sustain any creatures inside.  If the island nation is not returned to its size and the sphere destroyed, nothing will be left besides death.
To find the marble on the ocean, do not look for the marble, look for the scars in the weave.  From the scars, 12 threads still connect Britannia.
The ritual to bring Britannia back will require the sacrifice of many, but a great many more will be saved.
In the end, Fithelos, you will have your answer, but there will be nobody left to ask the question."

An important note here, by releasing Britannia, you have saved everyone in it.  Sure there will be some upheaval, some fighting, interlopers, etc., but without you, they island nation would eventually become a wasteland.  The Earth Mother, sad for her children, would have also used you to free them.

The Titan Brothers' Punishment

The Titan Brothers make a deal that if Balance chooses a person to place in Britannia on a vague task, a final tally of the person's deeds' alignments would determine the alignment of mankind.  If it were Good, Khovher would be allowed to interact with mortals, Evil would allow Kirzurath to, and Neutral would mean Balance would still prevent all interaction of his brothers.

In the end, Balance wins.  He brings you back and wipes your memories, believing he's taken care of everything without actually interfering in the mortals' world in any significant way.  He returns to his brothers and cuts the three of them off from the happenings of the plane.  Unfortunately for him, he was unaware that Kirzurath had spoken to Fraz-Urb'luu.  When Fraz feels it's safe, he appears to you to make his request of you, starting a chain reaction involving many gods.

When you release Britannia, Balance is shown the effects of his actions and told he has broken his own sacred laws.  He not only accepts responsibility, but recommends a punishment to suit his and his brothers' crimes.  They are to walk the material plane for the rest of time as mortals.  Each death brings reincarnation to live another life as men among men.  Each brother will also have to live with the extreme version of how their actions as Titans would have affected mortals.  Balance can never benefit from the actions of gods (basically a world without magic or luck), Khovher suffers the consequences of being near heroes (constantly targeted by evil to get the attention of the hero or ignored by the ones he would love as he can't compare), and Kirzurath mostly just suffers (physical and mental torture as evil destroys him and those around him).

Had Fithelos not gone to Eberron, maybe he would have come across the brothers at some point, though you would not have recognized each other.

In reply to Twiz (msg # 15):

Wow. It never ceases to surprise me how much goes on behind the scenes.

I think if you ran this for others...where there is more than just me...I think they would probably follow the story better than I, exploring more efficiently the world you have laid out.

With this campaign, you hit a somewhat tender subject. There were times where I think I was taking the campaign a little too personal and I just wanted to get away from the situation altogether. Reason being, between my ex-wife, my parents and some of my family, I have been reminded often of the poor decisions I've made and the lives I've ruined because of them. Even when the intentions were good, even when trying to do the right thing, it ends up making things worse.

Which...hahahhaa...I really should be able to separate reality and the game from each other and usually I can with ease. This particular topic is a little more difficult to do so with.

I suppose this is the reason I want to read stories about redemption and characters who do choose the right path, no matter the pain and trials they're faced with. Because in my head, I'd rather be that person.


So. I doubt this campaign will have the effect on others as it had on me. But personally, I'll take a campaign that makes me think, reflect, ponder and feel something over one that doesn't.

Well done.

In reply to Fithelos (msg # 16):

I had a rant.  These times and all.  It boiled down to people are assholes.


I think the paths you chose were probably what you and Fithelos felt were the right ways to go.  That's the best anyone can do.  I was disappointed sometimes when you found ways around parts of my storyline, but I've been on enough DnD forums to know that's the norm.

As far as characters that always choose the right path, that seems boring to me.  I'd rather watch someone find ways to succeed after failing a bunch of times.  I think that's because it's who I am.  Dropped out of several schools, finally graduated and got a good job (I hate my job.  See my first sentence in this message for details).  Redesigned the software and infrastructure for my group, five times now.  I think one of the most stressful moment in my life was knowing they bought $1.8M worth of equipment based on my redesign, only to find out two months later it wouldn't work.  Luckily I found a fix, but I felt like I was going to vomit for 3 days straight.

Fithelos had given up on himself a hundred times over, but kept going anyway.  I think he just had the, "I have a job to do." mentality.  In the end, it only took one person to show a sliver of hope for him to stick up for himself.  A god offered to give him another chance, and Fithelos was like, "That's not good enough.  I have a request."  That was pretty awesome to me.  My favorite part was when he destroyed the dirt map to the Earth Mother.  He was so tired of "higher" beings telling him what to do and where to go and was like, "No, I'm doing it my way.  It might be wrong, it might be right, but either way it's mine."


I won't run this campaign again.  My story moves forward.  Fithelos opening up Britannia to the rest of the world was critical for the next campaign.  It needed to be a single person.  The next one also deals with the internal struggle between right and wrong choices.  Good aligned characters, given a second chance by their god Dylian (common theme?)
must kill others to right their wrongs.  Each time, before they kill, they will be given a glimpse into that person's life.  Does a criminal deserve to die because they were a criminal, even though they acted in self-defense?  Does a child deserve to die, even if their heart is black?  What do you do when your only options are to risk death, or kill an innocent to help save the world?


Lastly, I've been thinking about what you said about my DM skills.  You're wrong.  When I have time to think things through, I do well.  I can't keep up with Myka and Elodie right now and they aren't even being difficult.  You did voices, you know the histories and the rules.  I'd absolutely watch you stream.  I need a ton more experience before I'd be good enough.  I think I got the story-writing down pretty good, but the playing overwhelms me too easily.

In reply to Twiz (msg # 17):

What I meant--about the stories I enjoy--are those of redemption or those who do screw up but choose the right path, in spite of everything that's happened. So they make bad choices, they've done horrible things, but they continually try to get back to being honorable and good. I do not like the glorification of evil.

And when I say that, I mean I disagree with making those who purposely inflict harm and do foul deeds to further their own power. Turning those people into 'misunderstood' or 'flawed heroes' I can't stand.
It's one thing if the individual is trying to right their wrongs. Where they exercise remorse, humility and truly want to make things right.

In fantasy, there seems to be this theme where the heroes are arrogant, show absolutely no empathy towards others, are selfish, use others to elevate themselves and all of it seems to be accepted so long as the character suffered some hardship in the past. I fail to see how a single event from the past should clear one of every wrongdoing in the present.

My favorite character in the Lord of the Rings is Boromir. The guy knew he was weak to the temptation of the One Ring. His intentions were good--but his actions could have possibly brought ruin to them all. Yet in the end, I believe he redeemed himself.
It was kind of the same with Snape in the Harry Potter series.

Game of Thrones basically created an entire cast of characters where I didn't really care if they lived or died. This probably doesn't come as a surprise, but Ned Stark was my favorite character and really the only one I liked. I liked Arya in the beginning. By the end, Tyrian and Sandor Clegane were the only ones I was interested in watching as far as stories went.

But. That's if you've seen it.

Anyhow. I would probably get cancer again from the stress it would cause knowing a company spent $1.8 on something I designed. I'm saying, that would probably kill me. I'm pretty sure Dean McGee was killing me near the end of my employment there...I'm pretty sure a small part of all of us died while employed there. I do wish I'd done what you had when I quit. Except, I wouldn't have left a card. To me, that was Classic Nathan. Classic Rocky would be...leaving a logic bomb or something.

Ah well. It's interesting-in the following job I worked with a guy who worked with Mark and Charlie (Charlie took your job but just attended meetings. He told me several times, "I don't know how to do any of this, you're gonna need to help me out.") So he surfed the web, did a LOT of online shopping, and it was Stephen doing the Networking, and me answering the phones, deploying and building the new machines, doing the inventory, onboarding, isupport maintenance, phreesia support, every piece of hardware in the basement support, etc. etc. etc. There was an occasional good moment--
When we'd be in our meetings and Mark would be chewing everyone out for not having 'high numbers' in closing tickets, answering phones, etc. Charlie (who Mark hired) said, "Rocky has three times the amount of all our numbers put together. He really shouldn't be a part of this,"
But then those moments were shut down with, "I get more calls on Rocky's way of handling people than any of you combined."

Which...I tell you on the last year, I literally didn't have time to talk even if I wanted too.

Man. I'm so glad I don't work there anymore.

Speaking of which...do you hate the people at your job, the work itself or both?

Also. By not running the campaign again, you've gone the route I've gone--in making your own history for the universe that's been provided. I have run the same campaign for multiple groups at the same time, but if the campaign is over and done with--it's history.
You'll have to let me know how future campaigns go.
You know, if people ever stop being afraid enough again to play in person.

In reply to Fithelos (msg # 18):


Yes, in fantasy...  Good thing average people in real life don't idolize men like Jeff Bezos, Donald Trump, and Elon Musk.  Worshiping people who have made an absurd fortune of climbing over others would be depressing.  Glad I don't live in a world like that.

Dean McGee was horrible.  I only did the card thing because I was changing careers (or so I thought) and already had a job lined up.  Don't need a reference from them if no one cares what they have to say.

My current job has kind of screwed me.  I have a degree in Electrical Engineering, but zero experience because they use me as a datacenter manager.  I can never be hired at this compensation for EE and I'm not good enough to be a real datacenter manager.  At the same time though, after I complete the MBA program, I'm setup pretty good to manage just about anything.  Software Developers, Dev Ops, Government Contracts.  I just wish I didn't have to add another $12K in debt to get there.  What's $12K when you already owe $50K though?
What I really hate though is the people.  Not all of them, just 3.  I guess that's way better than DMEI, since I hated pretty much every doctor.  Ones the Head Manager.  He constantly lies, is an anti-masker/blind Trumper, refuses to manage, and makes up random deadlines without actually taking facts into consideration.  Another is the project manager.  He's close to retirement, racist, misogynistic, blames everyone else when something goes wrong, and refuses to manage.  The last is our tech.  He's been a tech since the beginning of this project so he's friends with the other two and they trust him over everyone.  He's basically all the things the other two are, except he also constantly breaks shit.  I think our program would be a ton better off without them.  Don't even need to replace them.

Rocky is welcome to the next campaign, if I have it.  It would be on Roll20.  Fithelos is gone though.  As promised, a life without the gods interfering.  You can pull a parallel Fithelos out for whatever else, but this Fithelos is free.

In reply to Twiz (msg # 19):

Well. One good thing about being an IT admin is I have access to Roll20 and pretty much anywhere else throughout the day. I'm not always free, but I do have the freedom of logging on to check to see what happens.

My online stuff consists of me streaming Tabletop Simulator in Discord (for live sessions) and Discord for maps, rolls (using Avrae), story, etc. I kind of suck at Discording, but it's what everyone has access too--even at the FAA. (It can be run in a browser, which has yet to be blocked apparently).

I'd like to join your next campaign on Roll20. And I'm more than fine with retiring characters. He had his adventure, I rather liked how it all turned out...and well...that's closure for me.


You know, as for this whole election thing...and I had a long debate about this with Christina? The girl from Dean McGee who was in the room that always had candy?...anyway...because I did vote for Trump, she took some serious issues with that. After several very, very long emails--she came to the conclusion, "Rocky, it sounds like you don't even care about the people running, all you care about is their policies."
Uh, that would be correct. But she couldn't understand how I could support a man who did _______ and ________ and said _________ and was a _________.
Well that's easy for me. I don't really like either of the candidates as people, but one has more policies I agree with than the other.

Voting for officials because one thinks they'd be good buddies with you, or because one is more likeable or one is 'better looking' seems ridiculous to me.
It's policies A vs. policies B. I think most would agree that either way, we're not going to like whoever is in charge. From what I gather, there are those who hate both sides, those who don't care about any of it, those who are for Biden, those who are for Trump...

But there are NONE that are thinking, "Hmm, who should I pick?" At least, none who I've heard from listening in my cubicle, or on the other side of a grocery store aisle, or from two pews back, or from conversations with anyone among family/friends.

It is unfortunate that it is becoming like that with almost everything. Star Wars. Star Trek. D&D. Every genre in movies. Religion. Everything is absolute, or so it seems.

My wife's brother in law won't talk to me because I didn't like The Last Jedi. My sister doesn't want to talk to me because I've said the whole thing with the masks seems contradictory most of the time (and of course because I'm voting for the Republicans). Can't even discuss anything.

Anyhow. The people you are dealing with at the FAA? I'm pretty sure that's how it's always been. That's how (at least 2-3 in charge) were the three times I was there. That's how they were when Joe worked there. And now you--it's like they make sure to put douche nuggets like that in every branch/section of the entire facility to purposely lower the morale of everyone present.

Here's hoping the MBA will grant you results that will bring you some form of peace at the workplace.

In reply to Fithelos (msg # 20):

It would be sessions on Roll20, not like it is with RPol with a "comment when you can" setup.


It's one thing to vote for someone, it's another to be idolize someone.  I mean, I could list a hundred reasons not to vote for Trump or Biden.  There's just something so weird when it comes to Trump.  I know people that have called him a "gift from Jesus Christ himself."  I mean, WTF?  He can get caught doing bad thing after bad thing, and they either justify it, deny it, or blame the other side.  Look, I liked Obama as far as politicians go.  I thought, overall, he wasn't as big of a shit-stain as a lot of other politicians.  At the same time, I know that most people don't become politicians without being a shit-stain, so he was probably a shit-stain covered with a lot of perfume.  I didn't justify his actions, I didn't deny his actions, and I didn't blame someone else when he did something I didn't like.


Now masks, are a different story.  Since it can spread before you develop symptoms by spitting on people when you're talking/breathing, you put a cloth in front of your mouth and nose to stop the spit.  You don't wear one to protect yourself.  Other people can still spit in your eyes.  You wear one to protect other people, so you don't spit in their eyes.
In what cases is this contradictory?

In reply to Twiz (msg # 21):

Wearing one into places when you first walk in and then it's okay to remove it once inside. (Restaurants) Depending on the doctor, it's not necessary or it is. Having your work tell you to wear one even if you've already been tested positive that you had it over 6 months ago. (Me.) Being told to wear a mask even if you are alone. Like. In your car. Or at a Google Meet/Zoom meeting. People alone in their houses wearing a mask.

If the whole thing revolves around spitting in peoples faces, you could simply not talk to people and produce the same results.

But. Then again, because I've had it and my other Nathan friend who is both diabetic and asthmatic has it currently--and has not felt he is going to die. Because there's been several in my church who've had it (some of them in their 60s) had it and they're fine...I view this virus as a celebrity virus. Or a political virus. Or...I dunno, whatever you want to call it.
Regardless of what you think, it's a virus. Mask wearing or no, you can't stop it from making its rounds. When I was at the urgent care, I was told, "Well, it's a virus. You just have to wait for it to run it's course."

The only pandemic part of it is the widespread hatred it's caused between those who wear the masks and those who don't want too.

Were it a true lethal virus, the deaths would be reported, not the cases. People wouldn't need to be reported on, mandates wouldn't need to be passed in order to get people to follow procedures to be safe. If something was truly wiping out the population, you wouldn't risk going to Walmart to tell people who aren't wearing a mask you hope them and their children die for not wearing one. Everyone would be in fear, including the reporters and politicians. There wouldn't be protests of any kind because people would truly be afraid of the consequences.

Yes, I understand there will be some who are foolish regardless.
But most would treat infected areas like Chernobyl. You aren't going to risk going anywhere near the area because you will die.

And. I would like to point out (as a side note) that when our government is giving us direction on how we have to 'care about others', I instinctively reject what is said afterwards because I know they're lying. I know for a fact that most politicians DO NOT care about whether you live or die. They don't care about your families. You are a vote for them to keep getting paid and remain in power.

I don't believe the majority of people saying 'everyone needs to wear a mask for the sake of others' care about anyone other than themselves and their families. (Especially with those who at the same they say things like, 'they get what they deserve' and 'maybe when all those idiots are dead we'll live in a safer world').
I don't think I should have to wear the mask because I've had the virus and now I'm fine. But I do because 'you need to make others feel safe.'


It all just seems like a tactic to have people turn on one another. To me, it has been pretty successful in doing so.

In reply to Fithelos (msg # 22):


Those are stupid places to wear masks, save maybe the doctor since there are more likely to be high risk people around.  Whomever told you you need to wear one at home or on a virtual meeting doesn't understand how a virus works.  Maybe they think a human virus can turn into a computer virus?



The virus travels in droplets in your breath and can leave your mouth or nose when not speaking.  Speaking does amplify it though because people have a tendency to spit when they talk, even if they can't see it.



Less than 3% of people that get it in the US die.  Over 50% have no symptoms at all.  That means you could know 18 people with it and statistically none of you could have even felt sick, even the ones in the high risk category.  11 more would feel like they have the flu, 4 may end up in the hospital and one of those 4 might die.  Of course, statistics require larger numbers to work out that well.  You might know the 60-odd people that didn't even get sick and never meet the 2 or 3 that died.  It's still that 3% you that you might pass it to you should care enough to want to mitigate the risks.  Again, you can have it without symptoms and still be contagious.



It's not about "stopping" it. It's about reducing it.  And yes, the flu or the black plague would be significantly reduced if humans washed their hands and stayed out of other's personal space.  And technically, you can almost completely block it.  You don't have to take my word for it.  Look up New Zealand's numbers compared to the US.  They're roughly the size of Oklahoma and have had total cases less than we have every 2 days.  They stopped it twice with strict lockdowns and other mandates.  They just didn't have a bunch of citizens running around yelling, 'But mah freedoms'.  The vast majority of citizens were just like, "Okay scientists."



Both statistics are important, that's why they report both. 7.8M cases, 218K deaths, 5.0M recovered.  Cases are reported to help find hotspots to help mitigate spread and reduce deaths.  The more granular you are with statistics, the better insights you can gather.  For instance, why is OK spreading so much when New Zealand has less restrictions right now?  Probably because New Zealand was proactive and put in place a bunch of strict restrictions at the beginning.  And yes, I know they're an island, which does account for some of it, but if, as a nation, we put in the same restrictions and safety nets, we probably wouldn't be in the top three for cases/deaths.



If you don't make people do something that makes them uncomfortable, they won't.  Remember, we fight seatbelts and helmets to this day.  All things that have been proven to benefit us.    Especially in a country that, as a whole, doesn't understand science.  "People suffocate in masks!"  oxygen is too small to be blocked by our masks.  "If you can smell a fart, you can get the virus!".  The virus is at least 200x larger than oxygen and tends to ride in the moisture in your breath which is, on the small end, 160x larger than the virus.  That's like saying if a bowling ball fits down the lane, there's no reason an airplane can't.



That's part of the people are assholes rant I had earlier.  You shouldn't want anyone to be sick and die.  At the same, there's also people coughing on other on purpose saying they hope they get sick too.  We're so into ourselves in this country, we literally wish death upon our neighbors for not agreeing with us.



If we actually quarantined, like New Zealand did, then half the country would lose their jobs.  As a country, we believe if you don't work, you don't deserve anything, so there's no safety net.  How many people can actually afford to quarantine in the US?  I know that if Myka and I stopped working, we'd lose our house and run out of food in under 6 months.  New Zealand and South Korea said, "stay home unless you're actually essential (like utilities workers), we'll take care of you."
And I'm a firm believer the politicians do live in fear.  Can you imagine Industry X giving you millions of dollars, then turning around and writing legislation that would cost them millions more.  I'd be terrified.  I don't trust any of them to do what's right for the people as long as corporations have their testicles on a rope.  Coca-Cola hired Colombian death squads, Bayer knowingly sold HIV tainted blood overseas, GM sold trucks they knew would catch on fire because it cost less to payout than to fix the issue, Boeing sales safety devices on their planes as high-cost options, Daphne Caruana Galizia was murdered after reporting the Panama Papers, the tobacco industry knew cigarettes caused cancer for decades, the sugar industry knew they were a major factor in obesity and heart disease, and the list just keeps going.  You think the politicians don't know these things?  You don't think you make deals with these companies without knowing if you do them wrong, they could destroy your life?  I'm sure they fear the industries more than they fear some guy in Oklahoma deciding not to vote for them after a friend dies from a virus that could be relatively easily slowed down.



Both extremes are dumb, and should only be on the extremes, but the way the country has been divided over the past few decades, extremes are becoming more normal.  People that can find a compromise in anything is rare these days.



People can get the flu multiple times.  In general each time you get it, the symptoms are weaker, but you're just as likely to spread it.  The fact that it spreads so easily is part of the reason there are so many mutations of the flu virus.  I honestly don't know if COVID works the same way, but, just in case it does, I'd rather wait until we have a vaccine before we start testing theories that could kill even a few people.  And hey, if you're never able to get and spread COVID again, how is the cashier at Walmart going to know that?  I see your wearing it after having already had it as a way to show your respect your fellow man.  Why is "making someone feel safe" a bad thing?



That tactic only worked because people worship their politicians.  Politicians who capitalize on that and, as you said, "DO NOT care about whether you live or die."  Our politicians are almost completely lawyers, businessmen, or just 10th generation rich.  They know how to pit people against each other.  They do it with race, political affiliation, gender, wages... Anytime someone is different, physically, mentally, or in their opinions, it's a reason to make the average US citizen hate another average US citizen.  I have no clue why it works so well here, but it does.


Like this conversation here.  We can get butt-hurt that we disagree, or we can read what each other had to say and move on.  My father would literally be yelling at me for saying the word "statistics" because that's what "libtards use to try to prove their points."  I'm hoping that maybe something I said made sense and makes you better understand my point of view, but I'm not banking on it.  You do you.  I'm not going to hate you for it.


The saddest part of this conversation is the fact that I can feel the anger in your words and I know there's anger in mine.  Not at each other, but at what the world around us is becoming.  Money, hate, and fear are used to divide us.  If people could sit down together and talk, like actually talk, about how things works, about how different things make them feel, about what really bothers them on a specific subject, I think most people would just have a realization that we're all trying to do our best and we can probably do that together.  And that's why, even after disagreeing with about half of what you said, I still want to play DnD with you.  Because not once, ever, have I seen you actually want to see someone get hurt.  I mean, we can pretend some random guy in DnD is Mark and beat him to a pulp, but I can't imagine either one of us actually enjoy seeing him in real pain.  If I'm wrong about you on that, then correct me and we'll part ways.

In reply to Twiz (msg # 23):



Yes. This is what I think. Our boss here wants us wearing masks if we appear on camera, whether at work or teleworking.


I know...a lot of this. My point is, there are other sicknesses that are more contagious/more deadly that haven't gotten the attention this one has.



Alright, this is a topic Rocky is going to get a little fired up on.
You seem to be under the assumption that people didn't know what hygiene was in the Medieval period. From what I've read and studied, they did keep themselves clean and people did distance themselves from known locations during the Plague. The Medieval period didn't consist of a bunch of unwashed, filthy heathens who were half as intelligent as we are.
That is all I'll say on that.

Also, I know how the CDC defines a covid death. Do the same rules apply to New Zealand? Does New Zealand have the same diversity?
As far as cases go, I don't understand their significance. I do get what you said about identifying hotspots. But once it's there, it's there.

It's like climate change/global warming. I know the climate can change from year to year. I know that this isn't the only century extreme weather conditions existed--just because we don't have record of them didn't mean it didn't happen.
I also know that people are sick with disease every day, many of which are worse than covid. The difference being is that I see people I know suffering from heart diseases and the like. With covid--its like it's everywhere and nowhere...

Have the number of people who've died in the US gone up? Or have they remained relatively the same, but now people are dying from the 'rona? Because this is something I've heard about and watched. That covid deaths are up, but deaths occurring throughout the world has not.
I can look at statistics from well established websites, because it would tell me, the number of deaths haven't spiked from last year, but the number of covid deaths are up.

But I'm fairly certain information supporting covid deaths everywhere wiping out humanity are out there too. I literally do not know how you can determine who is telling and reporting the truth and who isn't.

So I go with what I've seen and experienced. Asking about it to those who live in various parts of the US and a few living in England/South Korea/the Ukraine...I'm not hearing that it is any more deadly than other viruses in existence.



I suppose it isn't a coincidence that some of the most populated places in the US have lower numbers than some of the least populated--and that the areas in the red are mostly conservative states? One might think this virus is being used politically to turn people against each other.

Am I to believe that people living in conservative states want others to die? Because (depending on where you read) that seems to be the case.

Again I will say, I fail to see how this is any worse than most other viruses; depending on who you are it will affect you differently. And so far, it doesn't have the same results as something similar to the Spanish Flu, or the Black Plague. It's being treated like a death disease for all, but it's only a 'insta-kill' illness for very few.

Is every other potentially lethal disease going to be treated this way now? I have no idea.



I've heard from doctors masks either prevent the virus from spreading OR using a mask to stop it spreading is like trying to stop mosquitos entering your yard with a chain link fence. I've heard 'anything helps' to 'wearing things like bandanas increase the spread'.
As far as oxygen being limited in masks...why then do athletes wear masks to lower their oxygen to simulate training in high-altitude/lower oxygen environments? My sister-in-law's uncle was recently told to not wear a mask because it's affecting his breathing. Now, from what I understand he's more susceptible and always has been to pneumonia--but he was told not to wear a mask because it increases his chances of developing it. For both moisture build up and oxygen reasons.




So to make everyone feel safe for the rest of time, we all have to wear masks. If I've had it and recovered, I don't think I should have to wear one. I think I should have at least an option.

I remain silent and apathetic because I want to keep my job. But in my head, it doesn't make any sense.

As for helmets and seatbelts, I don't know who is still 'fighting it'...but that's not a valid comparison. When people see those who are not wearing either, the response is, "Well that's their choice if they want to endanger their own lives." And I don't think people are dialing the police to report someone for not wearing a seatbelt or helmet.
With the mask, you get reported, your encouraged at work to report other people. The mask isn't for your safety, it's for the safety of others. So if you don't comply, you're labeled as 'evil'. Others around me are making the choice, I no longer am the bearer of that responsibility.



Sorry. I should have been more clear. I do not believe they live in fear from this virus.



Again I will say, people have always gotten sick, they will continue to get sick, everyone will continue to die, depending on who you are, you could be taken by a cold or die from a heart attack. Covid is no different than anything we face on a daily basis.
True, you can't know whose had it and who hasn't, who's infected and who isn't. You also have absolutely no way of determining where you contracted it. You can guess--but you can in no way prove where and when.

As for respect to my fellow man. Tell me, since when is it the responsibility of others to make sure I feel a certain way? Or vice versa? It shouldn't be your responsibility to make my family, or myself, or my friends to stay safe. I do not believe it is my responsibility to do something I think is pointless just to make someone feel better.

Because that's what this is and how it's been described to me. I have been told to wear a mask, to make others feel safe. I will follow laws in order to maintain peace, I will be considerate (to a degree) of those around me. But if someone sees me without a mask across the street when I'm taking out my garbage and reports me--to me it's become something completely unrelated to the virus or masks.
I wasn't reported by the way taking out my garbage. I was walking to my car at work--and the only people left in the building was the security guard and a supervisor in a building about 500 yards from me, and he reported me.

If I was sick, I wouldn't go out. I'd wear a mask with no issues and take precautions. Part of me has been hoping to get sick so I can stay home. But that hasn't been the case. For me or anyone in IT.

If I'm not sick, I should have the option to not wear a mask. I would think--especially among my family and friends--they would know me well enough to know that I wouldn't purposely endanger them. I would hope they'd know that IF I was feeling sick, especially now, I would treat this sickness like the plague.
It's the lack of trust and not being treated like a responsible, considerate human being that I don't like.
I have to report every day at work any symptoms I may have--and I've replied with, (and surprisingly no one has said anything) "If I was sick in any fashion, I would not be here. If I had to stay home due to sickness, I will report it immediately. Do you not think after all this time, I will not do what is asked or what is right?"
No, they do not. It is assumed me, and all my co-workers will kill off everyone without hesitation because we want to go to work.

Furthermore, if I did get sick again or one of my family got sick, I'm not going to blame or hate anyone for it. It's part of life. Even if I knew exactly who it was who gave me the illness I'm not going to hold them accountable.

This is about allowing one group to govern what another group wants. I'm convinced the virus isn't as horrible as its made out to be. That's my take on it.


I will say however, that far more of the people whom I talk to daily, even though they haven't been affected directly--agree with you more than myself. Which is fine. I'm more tired of being treated like an 'ignorant, close-minded, blind follower' than anything. You haven't done it, but my sisters patronize me, others have called me ignorant or misinformed or 'I'm not allowed to believe' something because I am conservative.

I mean, that's going to happen. But good grief. When I'm avoided at work because I support law enforcement for example...I can't even explain why. Believe me, I don't mind being ignored, but eventually it sucks when promotions or raises or bonuses come around. I immediately regret speaking at all about anything.

A lot of it comes down to me trying make logical sense of things. To me, a LOT is not being explained and it is really, really easy to find data from what I believed are fairly reliable sources contradict each other.




One of my friends--who dates back to the mission, he recently left the church we both go too. Wrote me a text saying how happy he was since he left and how he can't believe he ever believed in anything so ridiculous. That those who believe it are misguided, ignorant and blind.
And I just kind of looked at those words and thought, "That's what you think of me? Because I believe in those things."
"Well not you,"
"How can that be?"

I'm fine with anyone having their own opinions about whatever, but I will say it is...disheartening to be around people who think I'm a complete idiot because of what I believe. That anything I've ever experienced or done amounts to nothing because I don't think as they do.

As for me being angry--if I was, I wouldn't respond or talk to you about any of this. If anything, I am frustrated with my inability to articulate what I've experienced or what I'm trying to say. So I know I come off less...informed or intelligent.

As for Mark, he's just a douche. What I was referring to in he last message--I was getting to the point where I did want to see him in pain because he was going out of his way to make my job more difficult. It was affecting my home life. A part of me saw him as the problem and logic said getting rid of him would solve the problem. BUT. I am also quite aware of the consequences and what that might to do my family, his family...the eternities (which is something I do care about)...and how what I wanted to happen to him wasn't justified compared to what he did to me. I could have left Dean McGee at any time, no one was keeping me there.

There is a particular line from a wizard I like quite a bit:
"...you are thinking of permanent solutions to temporary problems."
Because Mark and his almighty assholeness was temporary.
At the time though, I got to feeling trapped, frustrated, powerless...just needed some time to step back and realize it was all only temporary.

Anyhow. I don't know why I'm telling you all this.
However, while I am not convinced of anything, I do better understand why you think what you do. Often, I don't get that. Most of the time, people just get angry when I don't accept what they're saying as fact.
I am trying to do the same, but I know there are times when my tone is trying to convince rather than state.


Anyhow.

In reply to Fithelos (msg # 24):

So much of your response is, "I can't trust others unless I see it for myself."  I get that (see people are assholes from my previous message), especially as many times as I've been lied to or taken advantage of.  I could spend hours trying to rebut each point, but it's not going to make a difference.


My main issue is this.  If a decade from now, people make fun of me for doing my best to protect others when it didn't matter, I'm okay with that.  If in a decade they prove wearing a mask could have prevent 0.01% of the deaths that occurred but I didn't wear a mask, I would be ashamed of myself.


I find it funny that you know more people that agree with me.  I know more people that agree with you.  Most of my coworkers, my in-laws, my parents, and my siblings think it's a political issue and nothing more.  Except for my mother.  She thinks it's all stupid because she doesn't think people care enough to take precautions, so why should she.  Aren't we black sheep in our own worlds?



The only part I'm going to directly respond to is your take on my assumptions, because I feel you called me out on that one.  I'll admit you probably have a better understanding than I do, but I do not believe Europe in the mid-14th century were, on average, as clean as the average U.S. citizen today.  I also do not believe they were half as smart.  I actually believe they were as smart, just in different ways.  For instance, I don't expect it was common for school children to take calculus like they do at the Edmond High Schools now, but I also don't believe most children these days could survive back then.


I'm not under that assumption, but there are major differences in what we consider clean.  It wasn't until the 1800s some guy was like, "Washing hands with soap is basic hygiene and really important for medical procedures" (see Ignaz Semmelweis).  For sewage management, they would dump waste in streams, sending it downstream to poorer parts of the city or other towns entirely.  They'd also use cesspits that would leach bad stuffs into the underground water supplies that were used by wells.  They also didn't deal with livestock or small pests the same way we do giving additional ways for the virus to spread.  Did they think bathing was only for kings and having visible rat blood on their hands while they ate was okay?  No.  But rinsing the day off, in probably contaminated water, is not the same as following the "Wash your hands for 20 seconds" graphics that get hung up in bathrooms with water that's gone through multiple sanitization processes.


If you would like to pivot this conversation to medieval hygiene, I would actually, no joke, be interested.  I think stuff like that is interesting and helpful for being a DM.

In reply to Twiz (msg # 25):

So, as far as where I've been listening/reading/studying--I follow a number of people online and read the articles they include.
But the top ones are--

Shadiversity
Metatron
Todd's Workshop
Modern History TV

Most of them at some point or another have talked about the cleanliness of peasants to nobles, and even more extensively on the literacy of lower classes. (There is a belief that peasants were all a bunch of illiterates.)

I'd have to search more, but here's one discussing on how those less wealthy kept their hands clean:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j30HOdWJ5gE

In reply to Fithelos (msg # 26):

There is no way I'm finding time to run a DnD campaign. I don't think I could find time play one. I didn't want you to think I forgot about you, though.