In reply to Twiz (msg # 23):
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Those are stupid places to wear masks, save maybe the doctor since there are more likely to be high risk people around. Whomever told you you need to wear one at home or on a virtual meeting doesn't understand how a virus works. Maybe they think a human virus can turn into a computer virus?
Yes. This is what I think. Our boss here wants us wearing masks if we appear on camera, whether at work or teleworking.
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Less than 3% of people that get it in the US die. Over 50% have no symptoms at all. That means you could know 18 people with it and statistically none of you could have even felt sick, even the ones in the high risk category. 11 more would feel like they have the flu, 4 may end up in the hospital and one of those 4 might die. Of course, statistics require larger numbers to work out that well. You might know the 60-odd people that didn't even get sick and never meet the 2 or 3 that died. It's still that 3% you that you might pass it to you should care enough to want to mitigate the risks. Again, you can have it without symptoms and still be contagious.
I know...a lot of this. My point is, there are other sicknesses that are more contagious/more deadly that haven't gotten the attention this one has.
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It's not about "stopping" it. It's about reducing it. And yes, the flu or the black plague would be significantly reduced if humans washed their hands and stayed out of other's personal space. And technically, you can almost completely block it. You don't have to take my word for it. Look up New Zealand's numbers compared to the US. They're roughly the size of Oklahoma and have had total cases less than we have every 2 days. They stopped it twice with strict lockdowns and other mandates. They just didn't have a bunch of citizens running around yelling, 'But mah freedoms'. The vast majority of citizens were just like, "Okay scientists."
Alright, this is a topic Rocky is going to get a little fired up on.
You seem to be under the assumption that people didn't know what hygiene was in the Medieval period. From what I've read and studied, they did keep themselves clean and people did distance themselves from known locations during the Plague. The Medieval period didn't consist of a bunch of unwashed, filthy heathens who were half as intelligent as we are.
That is all I'll say on that.
Also, I know how the CDC defines a covid death. Do the same rules apply to New Zealand? Does New Zealand have the same diversity?
As far as cases go, I don't understand their significance. I do get what you said about identifying hotspots. But once it's there, it's there.
It's like climate change/global warming. I know the climate can change from year to year. I know that this isn't the only century extreme weather conditions existed--just because we don't have record of them didn't mean it didn't happen.
I also know that people are sick with disease every day, many of which are worse than covid. The difference being is that I see people I know suffering from heart diseases and the like. With covid--its like it's everywhere and nowhere...
Have the number of people who've died in the US gone up? Or have they remained relatively the same, but now people are dying from the 'rona? Because this is something I've heard about and watched. That covid deaths are up, but deaths occurring throughout the world has not.
I can look at statistics from well established websites, because it would tell me, the number of deaths haven't spiked from last year, but the number of covid deaths are up.
But I'm fairly certain information supporting covid deaths everywhere wiping out humanity are out there too. I literally do not know how you can determine who is telling and reporting the truth and who isn't.
So I go with what I've seen and experienced. Asking about it to those who live in various parts of the US and a few living in England/South Korea/the Ukraine...I'm not hearing that it is any more deadly than other viruses in existence.
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Both statistics are important, that's why they report both. 7.8M cases, 218K deaths, 5.0M recovered. Cases are reported to help find hotspots to help mitigate spread and reduce deaths. The more granular you are with statistics, the better insights you can gather. For instance, why is OK spreading so much when New Zealand has less restrictions right now? Probably because New Zealand was proactive and put in place a bunch of strict restrictions at the beginning. And yes, I know they're an island, which does account for some of it, but if, as a nation, we put in the same restrictions and safety nets, we probably wouldn't be in the top three for cases/deaths
I suppose it isn't a coincidence that some of the most populated places in the US have lower numbers than some of the least populated--and that the areas in the red are mostly conservative states? One might think this virus is being used politically to turn people against each other.
Am I to believe that people living in conservative states want others to die? Because (depending on where you read) that seems to be the case.
Again I will say, I fail to see how this is any worse than most other viruses; depending on who you are it will affect you differently. And so far, it doesn't have the same results as something similar to the Spanish Flu, or the Black Plague. It's
being treated like a death disease for all, but it's only a 'insta-kill' illness for very few.
Is every other
potentially lethal disease going to be treated this way now? I have no idea.
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oxygen is too small to be blocked by our masks. "If you can smell a fart, you can get the virus!". The virus is at least 200x larger than oxygen and tends to ride in the moisture in your breath which is, on the small end, 160x larger than the virus. That's like saying if a bowling ball fits down the lane, there's no reason an airplane can't.
I've heard from doctors masks either prevent the virus from spreading OR using a mask to stop it spreading is like trying to stop mosquitos entering your yard with a chain link fence. I've heard 'anything helps' to 'wearing things like bandanas increase the spread'.
As far as oxygen being limited in masks...why then do athletes wear masks to lower their oxygen to simulate training in high-altitude/lower oxygen environments? My sister-in-law's uncle was recently told to not wear a mask because it's affecting his breathing. Now, from what I understand he's more susceptible and always has been to pneumonia--but he was told not to wear a mask because it increases his chances of developing it. For both moisture build up and oxygen reasons.
So to make everyone feel safe for the rest of time, we all have to wear masks. If I've had it and recovered, I don't think I should have to wear one. I think I should have at least an option.
I remain silent and apathetic because I want to keep my job. But in my head, it doesn't make any sense.
As for helmets and seatbelts, I don't know who is still 'fighting it'...but that's not a valid comparison. When people see those who are not wearing either, the response is, "Well that's their choice if they want to endanger their own lives." And I don't think people are dialing the police to report someone for not wearing a seatbelt or helmet.
With the mask, you get reported, your encouraged at work to report other people. The mask isn't for your safety, it's for the safety of others. So if you don't comply, you're labeled as 'evil'. Others around me are making the choice, I no longer am the bearer of that responsibility.
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And I'm a firm believer the politicians do live in fear.
Sorry. I should have been more clear. I do not believe they live in fear from this virus.
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People can get the flu multiple times. In general each time you get it, the symptoms are weaker, but you're just as likely to spread it. The fact that it spreads so easily is part of the reason there are so many mutations of the flu virus. I honestly don't know if COVID works the same way, but, just in case it does, I'd rather wait until we have a vaccine before we start testing theories that could kill even a few people. And hey, if you're never able to get and spread COVID again, how is the cashier at Walmart going to know that? I see your wearing it after having already had it as a way to show your respect your fellow man. Why is "making someone feel safe" a bad thing?
Again I will say, people have always gotten sick, they will continue to get sick, everyone will continue to die, depending on who you are, you could be taken by a cold or die from a heart attack. Covid is no different than anything we face on a daily basis.
True, you can't know whose had it and who hasn't, who's infected and who isn't. You also have absolutely no way of determining where you contracted it. You can guess--but you can in no way prove where and when.
As for respect to my fellow man. Tell me, since when is it the responsibility of others to make sure I feel a certain way? Or vice versa? It shouldn't be your responsibility to make my family, or myself, or my friends to stay safe. I do not believe it is my responsibility to do something I think is pointless just to make someone feel better.
Because that's what this is and how it's been described to me. I have been told to wear a mask, to make others feel safe. I will follow laws in order to maintain peace, I will be considerate (to a degree) of those around me. But if someone sees me without a mask across the street when I'm taking out my garbage and reports me--to me it's become something completely unrelated to the virus or masks.
I wasn't reported by the way taking out my garbage. I was walking to my car at work--and the only people left in the building was the security guard and a supervisor in a building about 500 yards from me, and he reported me.
If I was sick, I wouldn't go out. I'd wear a mask with no issues and take precautions. Part of me has been hoping to get sick so I can stay home. But that hasn't been the case. For me or anyone in IT.
If I'm not sick, I should have the option to not wear a mask. I would think--especially among my family and friends--they would know me well enough to know that I wouldn't purposely endanger them. I would hope they'd know that IF I was feeling sick, especially now, I would treat this sickness like the plague.
It's the lack of trust and not being treated like a responsible, considerate human being that I don't like.
I have to report every day at work any symptoms I may have--and I've replied with, (and surprisingly no one has said anything) "If I was sick in any fashion, I would not be here. If I had to stay home due to sickness, I will report it immediately. Do you not think after all this time, I will not do what is asked or what is right?"
No, they do not. It is assumed me, and all my co-workers will kill off everyone without hesitation because we want to go to work.
Furthermore, if I did get sick again or one of my family got sick, I'm not going to blame or hate anyone for it. It's part of life. Even if I knew exactly who it was who gave me the illness I'm not going to hold them accountable.
This is about allowing one group to govern what another group wants. I'm convinced the virus isn't as horrible as its made out to be. That's my take on it.
I will say however, that far more of the people whom I talk to daily, even though they haven't been affected directly--agree with you more than myself. Which is fine. I'm more tired of being treated like an 'ignorant, close-minded, blind follower' than anything. You haven't done it, but my sisters patronize me, others have called me ignorant or misinformed or 'I'm not allowed to believe' something because I am conservative.
I mean, that's going to happen. But good grief. When I'm avoided at work because I support law enforcement for example...I can't even explain why. Believe me, I don't mind being ignored, but eventually it sucks when promotions or raises or bonuses come around. I immediately regret speaking at all about anything.
A lot of it comes down to me trying make logical sense of things. To me, a LOT is not being explained and it is really, really easy to find data from what I believed are fairly reliable sources contradict each other.
One of my friends--who dates back to the mission, he recently left the church we both go too. Wrote me a text saying how happy he was since he left and how he can't believe he ever believed in anything so ridiculous. That those who believe it are misguided, ignorant and blind.
And I just kind of looked at those words and thought, "That's what you think of me? Because I believe in those things."
"Well not you,"
"How can that be?"
I'm fine with anyone having their own opinions about whatever, but I will say it is...disheartening to be around people who think I'm a complete idiot because of what I believe. That anything I've ever experienced or done amounts to nothing because I don't think as they do.
As for me being angry--if I was, I wouldn't respond or talk to you about any of this. If anything, I am frustrated with my inability to articulate what I've experienced or what I'm trying to say. So I know I come off less...informed or intelligent.
As for Mark, he's just a douche. What I was referring to in he last message--I
was getting to the point where I did want to see him in pain because he was going out of his way to make my job more difficult. It was affecting my home life. A part of me saw him as the problem and logic said getting rid of him would solve the problem. BUT. I am also quite aware of the consequences and what that might to do my family, his family...the eternities (which is something I do care about)...and how what I wanted to happen to him wasn't justified compared to what he did to me. I could have left Dean McGee at any time, no one was keeping me there.
There is a particular line from a wizard I like quite a bit:
"...you are thinking of permanent solutions to temporary problems."
Because Mark and his almighty assholeness was temporary.
At the time though, I got to feeling trapped, frustrated, powerless...just needed some time to step back and realize it was all only temporary.
Anyhow. I don't know why I'm telling you all this.
However, while I am not convinced of anything, I do better understand why you think what you do. Often, I don't get that. Most of the time, people just get angry when I don't accept what they're saying as fact.
I am trying to do the same, but I know there are times when my tone is trying to convince rather than state.
Anyhow.