The simple answer is "no" because knock is a 2nd level spell and a cantrip should not invalidate a higher level spell.

The longer answer is that water only increases by 10% volume and because of the tumblers and the keyhole there are plenty of spaces to alleviate pressure. You might be able to damage the lock but it would spring open or shatter completely apart. Instead I would say you could use it to make a key no longer work to unlock it so an idea is to use it to lock a door behind you to keep the bad guys from chasing you. Equivalent to the sci-fi trope "smash the door panel and the door is permanently locked" kind of thing.

Also there is no time crunch at this time. I don't want to fast forward past exploring the castle because there is Fun Stuff™ to be found but if you want to say fast forward a day you can go back to town, drop of Pinna and the other villagers, get a wagon, get some lockpicks and tools, and come back in the proverbial snap of a finger.

Honestly ladies, I’d rather fast forward a day and as the DM suggests, head back into town to drop off the captives and get the needed supplies, lockpicks included. My ‘angely-sense’ is pinging that if we start smashing the chests (or damaging them with cold magic) then we’re gonna destroy something inside that we’ll regret.

Thoughts?

FF sounds fine to me.

I'm running around trying to get a commission done. Not sure how often I'll be checking in next couple weeks but I'll do my best.

I think FF sounds right. Talia wouldn’t like exploring while civilians are around. Happily, she now has a reason to return which she did not have before. Treasure!

But could we find thieves’ tools in Ashford, really? Or just a crowbar? Haha

Angel herself wasn’t around then, but wasn’t Arthura, who died in the dragon fight, a rogue? He might have had some lockpicks on him, and according to the game thread his body (and presumably his equipment too) was taken back to Ashford. I don’t know what happened to that gear, but there might be at least one set of lockpicks floating around Ashford.

Yeah, let's get those captives home! Pinna needs a good cup of warm tea.

Alright, Lord DM sir, I believe the lesser consensus is that we fast forward a day heading back into town to drop off captives and gather supplies.

Okay, first, since Pinna went upstairs with the other two captives BEFORE Edmund came out of hiding and asked us if it was really a good idea for him to leave the castle and go to the village, then the way I see it, Talia's post happened in two maybe three different conversations, if we still want to keep Edmund's existence a secret.



This happened right when Edmund confronted us, but not in the presence of Pinna and the others.



This happened obviously in Pinna's presence, so most likely when we went back upstairs to talk with Pinna.



And this happens obviously back in Edmund's presence, so either it happened before we all went upstairs to talk with Pinna, or it happened in a third conversation when we went back downstairs to talk with Edmund.

So, sorry for totally picking apart your whole post, Talia, but if this is going to be a game of politcal intrigue and such, then I think it's important to establish at the outset if we're blowing Edmund's cover to the three captives at the very beginning, or are we following his lead (and what we've kinda decided ourselves anyway) by keeping his true identity a secret?

Nope, that's fine. I had forgotten Pinna went upstairs when I wrote it. Drat! And I really liked that post as part of Talia's arc.

Let me edit things real quick. Thanks for the picking of nits there, ANgel.

EDIT: A small and I think it is fine. Talia is speaking after Pinna went upstairs. References to Pinna but no direct interaction. Should be fine.
This message was last edited by the player at 12:31, Tue 26 Oct 2021.

In reply to Talia Alden (msg # 928):

</hugs>   :)

Alright continue to discuss. let me know what your final decision is. IT might also help to discuss things OOC here and once a consensus is reached then take it back to IC.

I've found that method helps out a lot in situations like this where it is open ended. Some other things to keep in mind

1) Because of the civil war and the coup there are plenty of sellswords and veterans that could be raised as an army of your own, especially if you it's in the name of the old Baron. Lord Saxton is, as far as you can tell from your brief excursions, not very popular.

2) Edmund did mention a relative that could potentially be brought in for reinforcements as well.

3) Because the core structure of the castle is still in good shape you could probably get it completely fixed up in about 5 months or so. Or even expand it to be a proper castle (right now it is just a keep really). Even still the orcs did a lot of work preparing the keep against a siege so even with just a few hundred volunteers you would be a force to be reckoned with compared to Saxton's 50 mercenary knights (the 12...now 11 Knights plus their men-at-arms etc.). You can't really lay siege with 50 people so he would have to raise an army that would also take time.

4) People do build stuff all the time. New temples, new mills etc so putting out a call for masons and carpenters isn't going to immediately alert Saxton "hey! a coup!" but...

5) Something like this only stays hidden for so long. Even if it's just Pinna and a few townsfolk eventually someone will say something to someone who'll repeat it and get overheard etc. etc. It is only a matter of time before someone from Saxton goes out to investigate. Ashford is already going to be of interest because of the missing taxes.

So one final say is your characters will have zero knowledge of this but I also know how this stuff can grind a game to a halt so if you say ABSOLUTELY NOTHING Saxton will send out a small army within a month. If you announce far and wide "hey, we're here! come help us overthrow Saxton!" Saxton will send out a small army within a week so your time frame of "keeping it quiet" is not going to last very long. If you just put out a call for builders and mercenaries but don't announce what you're doing with them you've got 2-3 weeks.

OK, my plan would be to keep it as secret as possible. Putting out a call for masons and such for "unspecified project" is a good plan. As for a mercenary force, we'd need coin. Likely, we'll get a bit in the chests, but an overture to Edmund's relatives might be best. I might also lean on my background here and see if dear old ma might know a way to contact the people Talia comes from. But that is a long term plan.

I just can't make myself operate on a timetable that Talia wouldn't believe. She'd plan to start repairing the keep fully with an eye to getting it defensible first. She hopes to keep this under wraps, at least the Edmund part, for as long as possible. Even if Lord Saxton starts hostility, keeping Edmund secret for now is the best idea. However, Talia really, really mislikes lying to the villagers. They are her friends and family. These are people she has known all her life, so she trusts them. She'd settle for letting Pinna, the elders, and the Mayor in on it and letting them make the decisions for the village though. That is their job, after all. Speaking of which, Talia would probably suggest putting her own mother in charge of the renovations team. She's a talented blacksmith and good at giving orders, so then we don't have to micromanage that side of things as PCs.

She would then suggest that the PC party make a journey to this relative to speak with him and convince him to support them. Edmund can't go with yet though. Too risky if the lord chooses to betray us instead. Right now, Talia'd ask for funds to pay a mercenary company or hire soldiers. She'd not ask the lord to back them beyond funds unless he wanted to send some men. Iron and stone would be her biggest ask, probably. She doesn't trust him with the lives of the villagers.

She also likes that the influx of workers at the keep might help to bolster the village which has lost a lot of population recently.

Now, Talia would go about a lot of that in a much more clumsy way than I laid out there, but she's a lot more awkward with command than I am. She's going to delegate a lot to lean on the expertise of others.

Well, that is, if we are all assuming Talia is getting pushed into leadership?

RE Leadership… As a player I think Talia would make a better choice than Angel. While Angel has the backstory and ability to lead, y’all really don’t want someone as capricious as her in command. She’d do much better as an advisor, messenger, and spy — maybe even the party Face and negotiator. She’s well-versed in intrigue, infiltration, and manipulation — hell, she’s literally been doing that kinda work since she was an adolescent — and she does have that nifty ability to appear as anyone anytime.  :)

Given the DM’s generalized ballpark timeline, I say putting out the call for workers, laborers, and mercenaries (the 2-3 week timetable) sounds the best to me. Start on the track of completing what the orcs started to make the keep the most defensible against attack in that time frame. Once word gets out though and we draw Saxton’s attention, it might be better to let the keep and a skeleton crew be bait, and have the bulk of our forces engage his with ambush/guerrilla/hit and run tactics. Angel will huff and puff about letting others in on “the secret”, but she’ll eventually relent if pressed. Lying just happens to be her go-to tactic for nearly everything and she has no qualms about lying to the villagers, or anyone really… she’s been doing it to y’all since y’all first met her.  ;)

Angel would be a good one to send to feel out and recruit those mercenaries and veterans the DM mentioned that might be persuaded to join the cause against Saxton, and also to that relative Edmund mentioned too. As for more coin, don’t forget y’all left most of the dragon hoard behind in the mines. It might be worth it to go back and see what else we can claim for the cause.

So right now it looks like it’s proposed that we….
     1) bring back immediate supplies (i.e. lockpicks) so we can more fully explore the keep
     2) let the village elders in on the truth about Edmund and our plans to overthrow Saxton, and accept whatever volunteers they want to send us from the Ashford villagers.
     3) put out the call for workers and supplies to start rebuilding the keep, and naming Talia’s mother as “forewoman” of the crews.
     4) put out feelers for recruiting mercenaries and veterans in raising an army against Saxton, capitalizing on any ill will the mercs have for Saxton.

   Anything else?

This about sums it up for me

Angel's summation sounds good to me.

Alright I will synthesize this into a write up. In the meantime I need 4 perception checks and 4 lock pick checks from Angel.

I look forward to the next phase of the game. I had forgotten there was still a stash in the dragon caves. But I also recall that they were not yet wholly clear either. Or, if it was cleared, it has been some time and new occupants may have moved in?

In reply to Talia Alden (msg # 936):

Yes, that’s what the DM said back then, that with time something else may move in and annex the caves and hoard for themselves… but we’ll never know if that coin is still there or not unless we go look.

Again, if y’all want to, Angel wasn’t there and only knows what you’ve told her.

No, Talia is thinking about it as the next venture is going to require coin and lots of it. The reputation of a team of dragon slayers won't pay soldiers.

FYI, waiting on the DM to answer some PM questions before I post.

Apologies for no updates but I was in a pretty bad car accident. I'm fine but dealing with that is going to take a little while, sorry. I should still be able to get in a couple updates this week.

In reply to Dungeon Master (msg # 940):

Oh my gosh! So glad you’re okay!  </hugs> Take all the time you need, we’ll be here when you feel up to posting again.

In reply to Dungeon Master (msg # 940):

Wow. Take care of yourself. We'll be here.

I'm fine. No injuries but also no car now so that's...a thing I have to deal with, lol.