I was under the impression only mages and fera could travel the umbra. And isn't the astral projection into the the penumbra only?

Tremere can do it with the Thaumaturgical path of the spirit I believe.  Since sorcerers use the equivalent of rotes I imagine that there method is attached to the spirit sphere too.  might even be able to do it with the necromancy discipline?

With some freebies added in, I'm looking at:

Time: 4
Entropy: 3
Life: 3
Mind 3
Correspondence 2

It's thematic for the character.

Looks like I'm ending up with

Prime 4
Spirit 4
Time 3
Matter 3

I think it works with the current concept which I'm posting and would be happy to take changes.

Looks like we are only missing forces at this point then.  :)

First on the subject of mobile nodes: the only canon version i am aware of is the Folding Gate of Armaghast on pages 52-53 of Forged by Dragon's Fire book, revised edition. this is a 10 point wonder.

Second, Umbral travel is mostly spirit magic yes, but not exclusively. Mind 4 allows travel into the Astral Umbra. In fact it almost requires Mind magic to reach the higher states of the Astral Umbra, however rare exceptions exist. This method is basically astral projection unless you use other spheres to project your body there.
To travel to the Dark Umbra/Shadowlands of Wraith you need Entropy 4/Spirit 3/Life 2 for yourself to enter bodily, Entropy 5/Spirit 4/Life 3 for others.
There are rotes that don't involve spirit magic to enter the Digital Web, but these usually require normal or magical computers/VR tech and all involve correspondence magic.
Now it IS possible to get from one area of the umbra to another (either from one umbra layer to the next or to an entirely different umbra). These can involve literal travel through the umbra or using correspondence magic to get there. The most universal of these paths is the realm of the Axis Mundi. However other ways exist, such as through dream realms which can touch all three layers. Other portals always exist, but that is often a matter of finding them and knowing some cosmology is VERY useful for that if you are so inclined.
Anything beyond the Horizon is not yet attainable by the group unless they have items/allies/patrons with the ability to transport and/or survive out there. A full ethership as is being discussed in another thread is one such possibility.
The above is NOT an exhaustive list of what is possible, canon or otherwise.

Having said all of the above, I am friendly to making umbral travel more accessible, and I like to award player sphere creativity. there is ALWAYS another way to travel, just a matter if you have the right mindset and spheres at your disposal. One thing about how spirit travel works is that it is very easy for one member of the party being able to travel to a part of some umbral layer that nobody else can. So ideas that get around this problem I am supportive of, long as some logic is there. and logic to mages is inherently subjective, remember that.


third: non mages entering/traveling the umbra. yes this is possible, but it varies a lot. for vampires, there are various methods. necromancy has more than one way to enter the shadowlands (depending on edition and game era). High level Auspex and maybe a few other odd disciplines allow limited forms of astral projection. going into the middle umbra/spirit wilds aka where the fera mostly go is much harder for vamps but not strictly impossible. mostly only wyrm spirits would like them, even then not always.
Kuei-jin can most certainly enter the various umbra with multiple methods and do so with some regularity. in fact interacting with spirits is part of what they do.
Sorcerers can enter the umbra on their own, but it is rare and powerful abilities that allow it. the main way canon wise is oneiromancy 6, allowing physical entry to the dream realm, and thus if careful to other parts of the umbra. I would allow lower dot methods of entering the various umbra physically, but they would be high level rituals involving dots in multiple paths. powerful enchantment or alchemy could work, but i would require at least 5 dots for anything remotely permanent, with probably drawbacks or limitations. for more temporary use of umbral travel, lower dots are just fine.

fourth, for sphere crossovers, well sometimes having the same sphere is a great boon. it allows for helping in ritual castings, the more similar the paradigm the better, at least for the effect involved. and lots of prime magic is never a bad thing. every mage needs a bit of prime past a certain point of what they can do. it is the great enabler of magic.

So that would be the equivalent of a 4-dot wonder?

I find the WOD cosmology to be kind of a mess myself.

Another way to travel is through Portals, which can be created by Correspondence alone.

4 dot wonder? you mean the item i mentioned?

yes portals are fine. though portals from the real world to spirit and back still require some spirit.

and yes the WoD cosmology as a whole is rather convoluted. i will be keeping some of its structure, but only so tightly. the various umbra books i am using as guidelines, not strict reality. and they vary alot between 2nd and revised. if it helps i am somewhat preferring how things look in 2nd. i intend to make traveling the spirit wilds a bit friendlier. i don't want you guys having to worry about random werewolves showing up to eat you (unless you have pissed them off directly).

Yeah, the portable node thing.  4 dots is up to 10 points.  Honestly the wonders have always been just confusing as hell to me...lol.
This message was last edited by the player at 15:50, Tue 02 Apr 2019.

Anyone watch American Gods?  It's kind of like the war between the traditions and the technocracy, lol.

yes i think it should be a 4 dot wonder. and wonder stuff can be confusing. it is convoluted, which is why i also allow you to just use the basic wonders around in the basic book. however the other convoluted stuff in book of secrets (or forged by dragon's fire for revised) really broadens what can be done, and i consider it worth the effort if you care about that sort of thing. but then i love that stuff.


and i watched the first season of American Gods. it was quite entertaining and yes has a lot of parallels with the trad/tech war.

I watched part of the first season and wasn't sold on it. Does it get better after a few episodes? I think the oy one I really liked was the Anansi intro one. That said, I would always be hoping Media wins.

So, we can pool node and a point in wonder each? Or just pool the node and lower it by 4. I think I had node 3 in my current character sheet version. I'm getting close to finished.

i would allow a custom portable node inside an item idea, and thus effectively spending some of the "wonder" points representing a node proper. ie say you have a 12 point wonder, but you want to add a 3 point node to it, i would just simply say this is a 15 point wonder, with the understanding that 3 points of it represent a node that relies on the item to access in whatever way the item is designed....

HOWEVER this is super rare stuff, or everybody would be doing it. this is the kind of thing that is really cools but many wise GMs would want to keep a limit on or it could get out of hand in my opinion (unless of course that was the point). so i would allow exactly one example of a portable node item in this game, minimum correspondence 3 effect is required to access it on a purely personal level (4 to go inside the item proper with other people and/or allow them access to it while you are the attuned user). the only exception to this i would allow would be multiple items that are tied together and share a common creator and story/history.

i think this answers your question.

Nodes are such a pain in the butt.  Want the quintessence?  better not be too big, otherwise every mage and garou in the world is gonna be looking for you.

you are not wrong. however small and unknown nodes are indeed available. big and new nodes are pretty rare, but not impossible. if it helps, there is the potential for undiscovered (save maybe by the party?) underwater powerful nodes. not all nodes are really suitable for claiming by most Fera, in this case Rokea aka weresharks. at least this is the view i take and enforce. if you want a big private node, you can have it, but we will need to work on why it is unknown. imagine having some arcane background like effect tied to the node, ancient magic or something else weird hiding it from general view.

Nodes can spring from all sorts of things and events and can theoretically be created indirectly by people manipulating events that MIGHT spawn a node and strengthening it over time.

this also part of why the traditions have stayed together so long, internally and with each other. claiming and holding onto nodes of any worth requires secrecy and/or power. not too mention nodes are the primary way of making and maintaining horizon realms, which are mage prime real estate.

and sometimes small nodes can go unclaimed for a number of reasons. maybe a truce to share among certain groups (at least potential for such amongst mythical mages and say fae or something), or just not worth the effort even if it is known. some nodes are in inconvenient locations.

and when it comes to finding nodes, it is not like most mages have their prime sense turned on 24/7, and it usually on a short range unless they continuously probe a given area, in particular for technocracy agents who might get noticed using weird gadgets all the time canvasing an area for a small or new node.

having said all this, yes having a node as a shared/pooled background for a bigger one is a very smart idea.

i am friendly to the idea of tying a node to other backgrounds, pooled or solo. tying them to a chantry of a larger group of mages might make it technically yours (you might even be the senior mage there given the starting power level).

OMG, this game is driving me insane, I swear I log on every half hour to see if anyone is posting!  LOL

it is fine, i am glad you are very excited but don't wear yourself thin. i will sometimes go a day or 2 without posting. expect that. don't go crazy friend :).

I got my character sheet mostly done and is in to the GM.

I'm wondering, though, if we might open it up to some pre-game RP. I kind of find lounging around talking time, or maybe doing some day to day stuff can help to both finalize any last touches for a character and prime us for getting into character once we actually start.

Honestly, my biggest concern so far in this game is that none of the players seem even vaguely interested in chatting, lol.  Not sure that a rp thread would help that but I'm down....:)

I did for a bit but I kind of got the same feeling which is strange.

And my character is not half Japanese/half American Jewish living in the Tel Aviv art scene with a good reputation and a decent amount of fame as an artist. Her new interest is clothing design but she still paints quite a bit along with the occasional sculpture. A lot of her magic is fully art based. So, anyone with more eclectic interests or connections could definitely know her.

She is also noticeable. Quite. Uncanny 3 along with the fame 3 and status 3. High charisma, quite attractive in that interesting compelling way not the girl next door sort of way. I'm going to figure out the uncanny specifics, though. She has the bardic gift, spirit magnet 5 (so anyone with spirit 1 should be able to see that).

So Freddie is completely androgenous, they have changed gender and species so often that they don't even remember what their original gender was.  Freddie is based around a belief in transhumanism and the "true" ubermensch philosophy (meaning that every human has the ability to excel past the limits placed on them by humanity itself).

I have found it difficult to write in a gender neutral fashion so Freddie will probably refer to themselves in the third person often.

Megumi will want to learn life magic but she has none now. It's spirit 4, prime 2, time 3, matter 3, mind 2. Although, I'd imagine there are a few healing talens on her body just in case. She has no combat ability, but if it really came down to it there's that fun spirit 4 summoning spirits to wreck a body thing.

Megumi?  Where is that name from?

It's Japanese. Megumi Rubinek.