I'm up for chatting, it's just that everyone has been so quiet...

My biggest concern with this game (and other Mage games) is the nature of the magic system itself. I find the mechanics of the system off-putting and prone to min/maxing by players who are very well versed in using the system. I am not that facile with the system, and will rely on ooc discussions to help figure out the mechanics of making specific effects happen. I understand the basics, but I am by no means an expert. Hopefully, as with other Mage games I have played in, this will not be an issue.

I just asked because I have a friend in WOW whose character name is Megumi, lol.

Dr.  I have to admit that mage is my favorite oWoD game...:) Have you looked at the book "how do they do that"?  It's a really good resource.  Though I will say one of my favorite aspects of mage is that you can't really min/max it.  Unlike the other genres in oWoD you cannot escape or ignore paradox, you mess up you pay, period.  I think that it really encourages creativity more than any other game.

Yeah, I have read the 'how do they do that'..it's just that when it comes to a specific effect I may need some ooc help to make sure I have all the mechanics lined up properly.

The limiting factor is usually one's belief system in how everything works. Though, mages by 3-4 dots can do some seriously impressive things, especially if they're in their sanctum or, better yet, in an umbral realm. I'm not sure how min-maxing really happens terribly much in a system that is super open. I've always found more min-maxing in more concrete games like DnD 3rd edition or Shadowrun.

Megumi's also the name of one of my favorite voice actresses who was in basically everything in the 90s including Faye in Cowboy Beebop.

The biggest limiter for mages is arete.  5 is generally the level I like to be at.  I'm not certain about m20 but in previous editions you really had no chance to make anything permanent wothout having a 5 arete (and I prefer to be able to pick up the 5th sphere dot).  Other than that the only limitation is your imagination.

I would consider 5 to be quite high. I mean, that's a lot of xp. And there's plenty at 4 that can made permanent with prime.

The challenge comes in things like 'Given my paradigm, I want to use Sphere X in this way to have this effect', and then be told 'Oh to do that, you really need Sphere Y as well or else you can't do that thing'.

I've gone thought Mage 20 and I *think* I have a good understanding of what my sphere levels ans combinations allow me to do and not do, but inevitably I'll have made a mistake and find my character useless as accomplishing the type of magic that I thought he should be able to do.

That's why I prefer low Arete games - less stuff like that to worry about when you can only do simple stuff.

I think one of the most powerful spheres is Entropy 2 (control probability).  I had a chaos mage (hollow one) that used that as his main magic ability for quite awhile.  Combat, x enemy trips and hits their head on a rock.  Need money, oh look I found a bank envelope with $1000 in it. Being chased by someone, they turn left when you turned right.  That baddy just happens to have a favorite sister/brother that looks like you.  Truly an amazing ability.

You can literally do anything with any sphere if you have a good enough imagination though (or even working knowledge). Technically invisibility, for example, is a forces effect but I could do it with life (perfect camo skin), spirit (summon a spirit to hide me), entropy (they just don't notice me), correspondence (I'm not actually there), matter (I'm actually that rock), mind (I'm not the Droid you're looking for), or time (I hopped ten minutes into the future after whoever was looking for me left).  Interestingly prime is the most difficult to work with yet probably one of the most necessary spheres.
This message was last edited by the player at 01:26, Mon 08 Apr 2019.

The real key is preparation. if you have some things prepared just in case you're able to get away or get through or whatever.

I do think arete 2 or so can be terribly frustrating, though. I mean, it's just impossible to do almost anything at that point. But, I've played in those and in crazy games where I had a 4th generation vampire from the second city and the mages and fera were equally bad-ass.

The easiest to address first: i am very open to creating some sort of Pre Game Forum or something for some early RP stuff. This can help integrate players if they wish. doesn't even necessarily have to be canon in case you discover something about your character through RP that you feel needs to addressed. Canon or not, this is along the same idea as a prelude, so why not?

Relating to this, yes some of the players here are not that responsive, and honestly this is why I accepted so many players really. I knew some were likely to vanish. We have 3 commonly posting (Random/Megumi, PCO/Frankie, Dr/Hank), 1 who posts some (Hanklowe/Sorcerer character), and one who says they are working on a character idea (Gabrielle). I have not heard from Gabrielle since Thursday my time (EST). All other players and waiting list i have heard from in some time, or in the case of kingjawa hardly at all.

I will not be surprised if some of the later drop the game or I just put them on the backburner/waitinglist. I will post to them in a day or two to let them know to talk to me soon or I will remove them as active players. Also, as real life always happens, if any of you guys need to take time away from the game, I can always put you on a temporary leave kinda thing, since some of you here seem pretty invested in this game. However if your time gone is too long I will put you on a waiting list if i find some more active people. Hopefully it will not come to this but life happens.





So for magic and spheres, well the How Do You Do That? book is both very helpful and a big mess. It has many redunancies, some things I think are just plain wrong (which is why i declared the base book to rule over the THIS book if they conflict) and is very messy. It needs some serious editorial work (then again White Wolf has a long history of badly edited books). I love and hate the book honestly. I am going to go through the book again soon to comment on any optional rules in there you should be made aware of (sorry I meant to do this days ago but life has been busy lately, will explain in the appropriate thread). I will comment more on optional sphere stuff in the appropriate thread when I do so.

also, yes Entropy 2 control probability needs some commentary: it can do crazy amounts of stuff, however its main strict limitation is that it needs to have a basic situation to manipulate. it cannot create things from nothing. I understand that how GMs/STs interpret this can vary a lot. For example: i would be iffy on the example "oh look I found a bank envelope with $1000 in it." unless the possibility of money already being in said envelope already existed that didn't require it to just fully manifest there. Now this could work in the right circumstances, like some kind of money contest or something of that nature. The money has to preexist to some degree. Now I consider this far easier to do with electronic money because you are not creating the money in the same sense, but manipulating electronic data, again this has some limitations. Basically, you have to have a situation or potential situation to be able to manipulate. Now it is of course possible to use other spheres to create something that you can then manipulate via Entropy 2.

on a related note: yes prime can be a very esoteric sphere, but also very very useful.
also in some previous editions i think the writers got lazy or didn't think when writing some examples or what spheres are required to do them. like one in Sorcerer's Crusade said just spirit 2 was enough to summon a mist via Call spirit effect. first off, yes spirit 2 could call a spirit, but 1) the spirit desired might not be around, 2) the spirit has to be convinced to do the act and 3) do you even know enough to know if said spirit can even do the thing you want it to do?

Non binding canonically would be good. And, since we know each other somewhat, perhaps an evening on the town?

I think that is a great idea. I will post something to that affect tomorrow I think after work. Working on the Sphere houserules right now.

I have most of the sphere stuff up that i wanted to houserule. Tomorrow I might try to make crafting magical items more friendly and easy. Heavily considering making them cost less Quintessence to make. Enough to entice players to try making them, but still to make it a feat worthy of a story (unless a talen or charm ie one shot items).

I am slowly going over the Magical crafting rules in both core m20 and book of secrets and tomorrow will post any alterations.

Man, I feel like I should take sphere inept for spirit, lol.

Also, can you switch my name over please?
This message was last edited by the player at 03:06, Wed 10 Apr 2019.

character name changed. also sphere inept is always available.

Feel free to switch my character name as well.

Mine, too.

I'm thinking I may switch matter for some entropy. Maybe 3 dots mind 2 entropy or the other way around. Thinking about it she has nothing that is really tangible in her magic except matter and it makes a lot more sense to keep everything more...I'm not sure the word to use. Maybe ephemeral.

That was my thinking for my character, in that he’s not skilled with external things like forces and matter. Life made sense for him as he started with himself and slowly learned how to effect life outside him.

I could see life eventually, and maybe other things as they expand. It seems mind 3 could be interesting with art literally influencing people.

I am trying to wrap my head around higher spheres of entropy. Like 3-4. Can someone help so I can decide where the 2 and where the 3 will go?

Well, with level 3 entropy you can start giving bad guys minuses to their roles (bad luck) or good guys bonuses to their roles (good luck).  Both of those are REALLY powerful if you have time to make a ritual out of it, nothing is more awesome than having +5 successes to every roll....lol.
It will also let you disintegrate objects by causing them to decay quickly

Entorpy 4 is when entropy will start doing actual physical (aggravated) damage to living beings (not vampires though) and of course you can do the opposite too, putting someone into the prime of life....:)

Thanks. I think mind may fit more for 3, then. Art that really can make people think.
This message was last edited by the player at 00:24, Thu 11 Apr 2019.

It's the 80's...do we have cell phones? ;-)