Feel free to chat amongst yourselves, we'll get moving shortly.

Hello fellow adventurers. I haven't played in a game for a while. Looking forward to some exciting adventures.

Greetings! I'll be playing Kerwich, your fairly stalwart Cleric of Larry.

Awesome. Always good to have a cleric.

Hey all, Wist Greenoak, wandering elf!

My PC started playing in a separate side adventure at the end of October. I think he will be arriving in Helmsbreach shortly. Looking forward to the game.

Greetings

A magic user should be coming along shortly...

To make a quartet. Looking forward to it.

Sorry gang but John won't be buying a horse and saddle, he can't afford it.

John, what are you wearing for armor? I might be able to carry it on my horse.

Just saw it was banded.
This message was last edited by the player at 03:44, Sat 12 Dec 2020.

If John can "roll" his armour up, Wist will be happy to carry some of it...does that work?

I find that descriptions of Banded Mail vary but from the book its weight is somewhere between chain mail and scale mail, so if its similar to either chain mail or scale mail then it can easily be rolled up and packed into a bag.

If it speeds up the journey John will take off his armour and rely upon his bow in battle whilst on the road. Saving his armour and sword for when they reach the watch tower.

So John's shopping list is now expanding to a horse and also for lighter armour for travelling and hunting.

DM: Druids can cast 2 spells at 1st level, magic-users can cast 1.

Should elves follow magic-users or druids for spell progression? I assume the former.

I don't see a Druid chart to compare to but the Elves entry has them using the same chart as the magic user for spell progression.

DM's house rule, elves cast Druid spells from the Advanced version of Labyrinth Lord.

Hopefully those are less effective than magic user spells, as elves are already a bit over the top of any other class.

Definitely less offensive:

1. Animal Companion
   
2. Detect Magic
   
3. Detect Snares and Pits
   
4. Divine Weather
   
5. Entangle
   
6. Faerie Fire
   
7. Invisibility, Animal
   
8. Locate Creature
   
9. Pass without Trace
   
10. Purify Water
    
11. Shillelagh
    
12. Speak with Animals

You think so? For flexibility, there is a heavy price to pay!

           Level 2   Level 3  Level 4
Cleric      1,565     3,125    6,251
Dwarf       2,187     4,375
Elf         4,065
Fighter     2,035     2,035    4,065
Halfling    2,035     4,065
MU          2,501     5,001
Thief       1,251     2,501    5,001

The good thing, is we are all on the same team! So, I will do my utmost to have my over-the-top elf contribute in an over-the-top manner! ;-)

I believe the Elf is balanced by the XP costs, having 2 Prime Requisites for XP bonuses, and the level limit of 10 (level limit is interesting at technically at level 10 the Elf has the abilities of a 10th level Fighter and a 10th level Magic user!). The change to Druid spells is thematically good (I prefer the druidic Bard too) but actually lessens the Elf class so getting 2 Druid spells is a good balance.

If this is a short campaign then Wist will be a boon to the party, if we play for a long time (and it will have to a long time) then we may begin seeing the rest of us out growing him.

Wist Use the druid chart from advanced.

Level 1st 2nd 3rd
 1     2   0   0
 2     2   1   0
 3     3   2   1
 4     3   2   2
 5     4   3   2

I read a blog that house ruled elves to the druid spells and I liked the idea enough to steal it.

I also house ruled the MU and cleric to get bonus spells from advanced that elves don't.

I once downloaded a pdf called "perfect class" it broke down the XP cost of each class ability and assigned it an XP value and then allowed you to build hybrid classes, by stacking them up.  https://breeyark.org/files/perfect_class.pdf

Interestingly it matched up very well for everything except the MU who get shafted by every published game XP chart.
This message was last edited by the GM at 13:48, Tue 15 Dec 2020.

MUs never got 'balanced XP' until 3E, and they still stole the show at higher levels.

5E has done a good job, they let wizards get their big spells but the number of spells and the damage output is not exponential as it was in the old school games. The downside is that almost every class has an option to use magic which makes the wizard less stand out.

As to elves using druid magic, I think thematically it is a good idea. And in these old 'race as class' games it does tone down the likelihood of "cast fireball then cleave with 2-handed sword"!

I only asked about the progression, because I was looking at the spell list and noticed it. Having 2 spells a day will be handy.

DM: did Linis explain to Wist what the green berries were good for?
This message was last edited by the GM at 04:26, Wed 16 Dec 2020.

Frankly I never even looked to see if there was an XP chart for leveling, let alone more than one for different classes, as almost no RPOL game has ever changed the level of the characters and surely not more than once or twice.  And using XP to do so rather than just adjusting the level between chapters is almost unheard of in any game played in the last decade.

Breeyark.org is a great site! I have used some of their Keep on the borderlands material.

That document is way too dense for a quick read, I will look it over during Xmas vacay! It looks on the surface to be a Basic version of what happened to 2E with the Player/DM Options books, class becomes secondary to buying skills.

Kadira your experience with levels in RPOL matches mine. The only game I played in, where the PCs moved up based completely on XP was a fun-house megadungeon for 1E.

Variable XP charts are second nature to me, as I started playing D&D a long time ago. It wasn't until 3E that a common XP chart for all classes became a thing.

Well, the AD&D game I run here uses the XP charts, although I award small XP awards every 6 months that have nothing to do with treasure XP or monster XP as a reward to my veterans. From starting at 1st level, the highest (and longest-played) PCs are now 8th and 7th level.

XP charts exist in many of the games I've played in the past and present. Whether you're playing on Rpol or face to face levelling in old school game is a rare achievement, which in its way reinforces the use of XP charts as its those classes with low XP charts like Thief and Cleric which then excel. I would cite this as one of the reason why Cleric is a much more powerful class than an Elf.

I've been playing in an old school Barrowmaze game for the last two years and only two of us having surviving characters from the beginning, over the years there's been many different players and an endless number of characters as we play open table. The two surviving characters are level 4, a very respectable level to reach and I'm actually seriously considering retiring my character Moonwhisper the Barrowmage and sage of the Blackened Forest!

Leveling in PbP has always been difficult.  Other than Nemrac (I'm one of the 7s), I don't any game I've played has stuck around long enough to gain levels, certainly not BTB.  I will award a lot more XP than book value, and it should only take 2 to 3 adventures (since they are smaller) to see second level.  There will also be bonus awards for making me enjoy running the game :)

I've never played any edition other that Basic and 1e, so I have no practical experience in anything newer.  My brother tried to get me to run a 4e game for his group of friends (even offering good scotch & cash) but I didn't think I could handle it.  His 1st level wizard had almost 30 HP...?

Hey guys, my father-in-law suddenly passed away over the holidays. I hope to be back sometime next week, if possible.

My condolences to you and your family, Kerwich. Take all the time you need.

Sad to hear your loss. My thoughts with you and your family.

Thanks for that. I'm back and set to play.  :)
This message was last edited by the player at 14:20, Sun 24 Jan 2021.

Glad to have you back.

We are doing really well. Fortune is with us. Let's hope the dice rolls continue to roll in our favour.

Kerwich, Upstairs with the boys or downstairs with the lady?

Downstairs to keep our magic-user safe.

I'm glad that hauling John's armour all the way has proven to be worth it. To the glory of rat killing. John is going to need to embellish this story somewhat to make it more heroic ;-)

Don't forget the R.O.U.S.es

Definitely John did slay a R.O.U.S too, he does have some bragging rights :-)

Really anything bigger would be terrifying for us 1st level characters.

I was referring to the one coming down the stairs...

Ah yes, hopefully Wist can deal with that one, otherwise John will help out next round.

Is that going down to the 2nd level from the 3rd, or down the stairs into the 1st floor?

The big rat is on level 2

Kadira you will want to use Kerwich as a meat-shield!

Kerwich, no the rat remains locked in battle on level 2

DM, feel free to delete my OOC post in the game thread to clean it up.

Do we have a plan or a marching order for the stairs?

John - Wist - Kadira - Kerwich has been the go to order.

Agreed.

So are we ready for the stairs?

Let's do it!

John, are you targeting the rats in front of you, or the ratman across the room?

I'll work up a little map.

John will be clearing the stairs and going straight for the ratman. There's glory to be had in fighting our arch-enemy the Ratman of Helmsbreach Watchtower!

I doubled up on CLWs for John, not realizing John only had 3 HP total (whoops). I'll remember that for next time.

Yes John was unlucky with hit points rolled, this makes it difficult as he's the front line fighter. He was very lucky with this battle and battles so far. If he can make it to 2nd level I have good expectations for him.

It does mean he appreciates the healing spells all the more. Thanks.

Kerwich would have seen that his wounds were fully healed.  I'll ignore the second roll, he will still have that spell available.

Thanks very much. :D

No problem.  I mean it's not like you're not going to need it soon...

I'm all for pooling loot for the first while. A communal pool to buy big ticket items (horse for John) and also to pay for room and board.

DM: Can you open a Loot thread?

Horses might even be a general investment, as you can use it for a bunch of things, and likely to resell fairly well unless we break it.  So yes John rides the horse, but we can even call it party loot so it's entire value doesn't come out of his share if we decide to keep track of what amount to negative value loans.

Kerwich, Kadira?

I'll carry the coins if you want me to - I have a large sack and a backpack, which might just be enough space, without carrying the whole chest.

Good plan. Kerwich the blind, pack animal for the group! :-)

I'll be away for Spring Break without Internet from tomorrow until Easter. I will be looking for a Remove Curse or maybe a Dispel Magic when we get back to town.

Enjoy your holiday, Kerwich.

DM: Is there anywhere else in the basement to explore or have we covered it all?

that about wraps it up...

2 questions.  Do OOC posts count for XP, and shouldn't it be the same XP awarded to everyone who participated based on an average or total value?

That is an option.

Rat, Ordinary  6 x 4 = 24
Rat, Giant      6 X 3 = 18
Wererat        95 x 1 = 95
Zombie         29 x 1 = 29
Skeleton       13 x 4 = 52  = 218 XP / 4 players is 55 XP each.

Everyone should receive 55 XP.

---

As it is my game, I am trying an award based on player interaction.  Post count is an easy metric, so yes, OOC counts, and no, I don't feel it needs to be an average value.

In the meantime, if you would rather accept 55 XP, please do.

I haven't looked at the default XP award for monsters in the game yet, as that is so rarely used, I just find it a bit odd that the system you opted for is so unbalanced.

We won! Well done everyone.

---

Not for John to suggest but can Kerwich just cast Reverse Light - Darkness on himself. Will that dispel the Light spell?

---

XP discussion. I'm not a fan of monsters for XP. I'm old enough to remember playing AD&D as a teenager, XP for monster devolved into entering a room and asking 'what's its AC?' rather than interacting with it. I haven't played many old school games as play by post so not sure of what the best way is, around the table I do like GP=XP. Happy to go with whatever and see how it influences game play.

In reply to Kadira (msg # 66):

Then write down however much XP you think you deserve.
This message was last edited by the GM at 09:02, Mon 29 Mar 2021.

I am not particularly worried about how much any one person deserves as the pattern it sets, if we keep this kind of XP spread we will see an ever widening level gap in the party.

I wouldn't even use XP at all, indeed I don't think I have run a game in over a decade that does, just change the level of the campaign as it becomes relevant to the campaign as a whole and advance every character in it to describe the growth and change so that all the characters in the game stay playable and the gameplay itself doesn't stagnate.

XP has long been a game balance metric.  Spell using (and theoretically more powerful characters) level slower.  Elves slower than that.

Tying it to post count should encourage player interaction.

If you would rather I just arbitrarily tell you when you reach level 2 I will.

In reply to John (msg # 67):

Darkness on Continual Light sounds reasonable, but Wist has no clue so I figure the logical choice is to the temple for advice...and likely a hefty payment to get rid of the issue!

As to XP, I am fine with whatever system the DM wants to use.

The cleric is back in town! ^{(The cleric is back in town!)}

Friday night he'll be dressed to kill
Down at Dino's Bar 'n' Grill

I don't think anyone put on the circlet.

The loot thread is locked!

Did we decide to have "fifth" portion for group expenses? Or am I getting my games mixed up?

I wonder if we can leave our treasure in the inn or at the church, or should we split it up and carry it with us? The latter is probably more prudent. And we need to go to market too.

Fixed the loot thread.

Standard items can be bought at book price, unless you want to try and haggle.

Kadira already agreed to loan her portion of the loot to the "Group horse" project, and clearly isn't interested in accepting the cursed coins, so feel free to count the circlet as my only loot for now, and we will see if we need to do more advanced fairness calculations later when we know what it does or have a larger total to work from.

John: the loot totals 296 gp, 8 sp - Labyrinth Lord uses the much simpler 1 gold = 10 silver = 100 copper!

So, divided in four shares is 74 gold, 20 silver each; or 59 gold, 36 silver if we divide by five and create a common pot for room and board, etc. I prefer we do the latter this time around. We can always decide after each adventure if the common pot needs to be topped up or not.

Since Kadira is willing to forego the coin for now, so that gives John two shares, or 118.72 to buy a horse; should be enough; especially if John takes Kerwich along.

Plate mail is damned expensive! Is it worth looking at banded for now, or save for plate? If we manage another haul this size, we could probably all throw in to get John into a tin suit!

If we go to the wizard's house, we could enquire about an Identify on the circlet?

And I wonder if the church in town might be interested in the chest, as it is made for donations?

Awesome, I've updated John's sheet and update the loot thread.

John can afford a horse and has a few coins spare, thanks to Kadira. He has banded mail but will be saving a while before he can afford plate.

Yes the church might accept the chest.

I'm all for donating the chest to the church. It does not seem very useful to us. Maybe it will buy us a discount on a Raise Dead in the future! :-)

Kerwich? Kadira?

Kadira has the deciding vote or could even offer a third option!

Kerwich? Kadira?

Sorry, Mr DM. May is a bear for my family with end-of-school-year stuff and my work hours have piled up on me as well. I'm still here.

If Kadira ever learns Magic Missile, I think the missiles should look like little sling stones!

Two more rolls, two more 1's!

As for the CLW, I expect the typo is on the spell description. They probably copied it from the Cleric description and forgot to change the spell level. Your call is exactly how it works in the 1E PHB...it is a 1st level spell for clerics and a 2nd level spell for druids.