Come here to chat about all things FFG Star Wars!

So what do folks think of the FFG version of Star Wars compared to the others, WEG's version for example?

I like both versions a lot better than d20 but for different reasons.

d6 star wars had more crunch and I think it made the Force a lot more versatile and "magical" however I really like FFG's system.

The dice pool instead of having static bonuses makes every roll a bit of a risk, the margins of success gives the GM a lot of nuance when it comes to interpreting results and the system allows for both very specialized characters while not forcing characters to be completely useless in every other scenario.

Finally the product is just leagues above WEG in terms of quality. FFG is definitely investing money in the product while the WEG stuff was pretty cheaply made and didn't have the best editorial staff or publishing behind it.

THAT BEING SAID

WEG did an amazing job of expanding the lore of Star Wars. Between the magazines and their products it revealed all sorts of new areas and species and events. I really enjoyed how books like the Tramp Freighter introduced a whole fleshed out pocket area that you could campaign in.

FFG stuff is fine but in terms of *new* content it's kind of lacking. Mostly it's just rehashing existing stuff which is expected as Star Wars wasn't 40+ years old when it came out so there was a lot more room to do new and different things with it.

I think the perfect union would be using FFG's crunch and bringing WEG's lore into the mainstream.

welp...this might explain why it feels so hard to get an FFG game going here. I had always figured that the new star wars game, especially one as well made as FFG's, would be a big hit on here but compared to D&D or even M&M there doesn't seem to be a lot of interested people...

Yeah.  I rarely see SWFFG games posted.  And I see the same 3 d20/saga games posted a lot, but rarely new SW games in general.  Still, it could be worse.  You could be looking for Shadowrun.

I have found that “planning” games like Shadowrun have a bad track record on PbP. i think the issue is “planning”. A game that is reactionary where the players just react to whatever the GM throws at them is great but as soon as the players have to get proactive everyone goes quiet and drops.

I tried running some awhile ago and eventually vowed never again because without fail I as soon as I presented a mission they would go silent. I would ask them “hey what kind of info do you want to dig up” and just get silence. Finally I would say ‘here is a plan” and they would just accept it like it was the only option.

By then half the players had dropped anyway so I just would pull the plug. Then a couple years later and a new edition rolled out and it was the same story again.

I haven't been in enough to see that happen.  I was in one where the GM was doing a "stable" approach.  He had about 2 dozen players and would assign them on different missions (with their input).  He listed like 6 missions, the players would choose the three they were interested in, and then he'd build teams.  It seemed like it was working okay. I joined kinda late though and the GM lost interest just as the real action was about to start on my first run.  I think I have an idea what the boys mean by blue-balls now. :p

Moving back to SW though, I wonder if the reason the FFG edition isn't as popular is that it is already a little more free-form than the crunchier d20 editions and at that point, somebody wouldn't want to just go all the way?

I sometimes wonder if its because FFG doesn’t do digital products...

The biggest thing I like about the FFG system is that it's a narrative approach with a lot of options and flexibility, yet it still has enough structure to be accessible to people who are used to more "traditional" or numbers-based systems.

I also like that the dice system divorces luck from success. In other systems, I tend to determine results based on how far the roll is from whatever the target is; a really close roll might mean that the hit landed but almost didn't, and a larger difference might mean that they bargained successfully for a sword that the shopkeeper didn't know was enchanted. I haven't played any other systems where there's a defined way to succeed at picking a lock and still find a monster behind the door. (GM fiat, on the other hand . . . )

The last SW game I ran, I had a bunch of players who were coming from GURPS and D&D. They wanted to try something more narrative and cinematic, but (except for the one professional author) weren't enthused about more open-ended things like FATE. They liked that the FFG system let them create distinct characters and specialize or not as they wanted, but also had a pre-determined list of skills and powers so they didn't have to create and define their own. They were skeptical about the pass/fail with extras mechanic, but ended up thinking it worked well to reflect the vagaries of luck. (Fate, the Force, whatever.) You can do that in the d20 or d6 versions, but it requires a lot more work from the GM especially when it's not directly related to the pass/fail.

And as the GM, I really appreciated the included suggestion tables for how to use the luck results. I generally gave the players the option to decide what they meant, but starting off they (except the author) weren't comfortable doing that so I did instead. A few sessions in they were making most of the decisions, some sticking to the table options and some coming up with their own.

I still prefer systemless games, but I like FFGs system enough that if I was going to run something with one, I'd take the trouble of adapting it to whatever setting. As a player I don't mind rule- and number-heavy systems, but I won't run them anymore. Even with electronic aids, I can only keep track of so much. :)

I could probably be persuaded to resurrect my tramp freighter game if there is any interest in it. I was thinking about basically doing an updated version of the Dawn of Defiance d20 campaign or maybe just run a published module.

I’ve tried it in the past though and it just feels like if I am not leading people by the noses everyone goes silent and the game just dies a slow death.

I joined a SW F&D game that immediately died and there were two really active players having fun in the chat so I thought “hey, why not put up a game for just them?” They were super active, multiple posts a day for weeks on an obviously dead game so I figured it was a slam dunk.

Nope.

One player didn’t even make it past charadcter creation stages and the other seemed super eager up until there was a first real challenge to the character, not even a dice based one but a moral quandry) and then they just dropped without a line.

At this point I’m pretty busy with games so I would need to know that players are going to put some effort into moving the game forward. Hmmm...maybe that is something I should take to the community chat...

They sort of do. There’s a combined dice app for all their SW games on iOS and Android ($5, I think), and PDF versions of all the books. They also have companion apps for some of their board games. All of the other digital resources like character or reference sheets that I know of are fan-made, though.

I don’t know if the apps are any good; I use either the roller here or Dicenomicon. For character sheets, I like swsheets.com.

ETA: I’d do a tramp freighter game. :) I can be slow, though, usually just one IC post a day. It takes me a while to get my words in the right order.
This message was last edited by the player at 20:50, Sun 28 July 2019.

I'll keep that in mind. I need to get a grasp on a new job and keep my current games going.


Flipping through things like GenCon I realize perhaps Star Wars is fading a bit. In my opinion it's now been almost 40 years since a good one was made. The sequel batch of movies are all garbage (but surprisingly for completely different reasons) and while the cartoons are good they're not spectacular and just aren't embedding itself into the zeitgeist of society like superhero movies have thanks to Marvel.

Every other show on television is a DC or Marvel comic come to life and Marvel has like 5 of the top 10 grossing movies of all time. But Star Wars? It is hitting big box office but I'm just not seeing the ripple effect. They're popcorn movies, fire and forget which is a shame because FFG is doing FAN-TASTIC things with the license.

X-Wing miniatures is phenomenal and one of my favorite miniture games of all time because it relies so much more on skill than "pay-to-win".

When I went to a World Tournament one of the top players was just flying 6 basic TIEs but he flew them with such precision they were ALWAYS where they needed to be to just mass fire and demolish his opponents one ship at a time. Oh the new and pricey ships are neat and fun but that game is so much skill and luck of the dice more so than "can you afford all the elite premium ships" to win.

I love the Star Wars FFG is presenting. Again when you look at equipment while the priceir stuff gives you neat options even your basic stuff is deadly in the right hands and your characters start off being perfectly capable of handling most situations.

I recently picked up their Outer Rim game and it is basically the Firefly Boardgame streamlined with a slick Star Wars Edge of the Empire feel to it.

And yet it is getting harder and harder to feel that spark and passion for the franchise like I could 10 years ago. Even though the prequels weren't great movies they were at least Star Wars movies. Except fo a couple of minor nit picky bone head things like midochlorians it didn't ravage star wars too badly but this newest batch. Luke being a jerk, Hyperspace is now a weapon of mass destruction...I just can't handle it anymore :P

Anyhoo sorry about the rant. Not my intention but just airing out some grieveances I guess...

In reply to praguepride (msg # 12):

I've entirely written off the latest movies other than Rogue One for all of the same reasons.

I'm looking for a F&D game to play in but it doesnt seem like their popping up too often. lol
Anybody up for Gming one?

Hi,  Is there a good YouTube video of an actual play or something that shows the dice system clearly?  I have dropped out of a game because nobody was helping me out and I couldn’t adequately figure it out.

For Force & Destiny on the FFG forum there has been a lot of talk recently about the best build being to take the Padawan and spend the points to drill straight to Force +1 then jump to the Knight template after.

What are the best builds for F & D that you’ve done so far?

This means that a GM should really do up a campaign pitch sheet and list the careers and specializations that are available. The Jedi Padawan and Knight specs are meant for the Clone Wars era, but in a Rebellion era game I'd never allow them to start. The same goes for Force Sensitive Outcast - that universal spec is meant to model the Asajj Ventriss' of the Clone Wars and earlier eras. Mechanically, yes, Jedi Padawan to Jedi Knight is optimal, but that's the point - the Jedi of old were powerful and strong.

Using the case of Luke Skywalker, I'd say that he started as Hotshot (in AOR) or maybe a Starfighter Ace (in F&D) with Force Sensitive Emergent to model someone with bunches of potential as a Force user but untrained. When he meets Obi-Wan he picks up the Lightsaber skill but doesn't swap into Padawan yet - he knew Ben a few days at most. So, with maybe just Sense and a few Force talents he putters along in his pilot spec until Empire, when he gets to Dagobah. Training with Yoda lets him spend that pile of XP he's been sitting on. He gets to the middle of Padawan, picks up +1 FR from that and from Force Emergent, and then meets Vader and gets his ass whupped. After losing a hand and surviving Bespin, Yoda acknowledges that he has no more to teach - it's here that Luke moves into Jedi Knight.

If the three original movies were a combined AOR/F&D game, the GM would have had entire control over when Luke gets to move into new specs. GMs, don't be afraid to exercise your authority. Force training to Force Sensitives is like credits to Smugglers - be sparing with it.
This message was last edited by the player at 01:04, Sun 11 Aug 2019.

As for "best builds", make sure that you and your GM are playing the same game. Lots of GMS don't like Force Users, because the Force tends to take over games that originally start as smuggler or X-Wing pilot joints. You'll just frustrate yourself and your GM if you want to play a Saber jockey and he wants to run a game about smugglers or rebel commandos.

That said, if the GM is running a F&D game which will eventually focus on the Force, or an AOR game that has a role for a Luke type, a great way to signal to the GM that you want to play a Jedi-Esque role is to take Niman Disciple or Ataru Striker. Combat wise, Ataru Striker is really strong and lets you fly through the air and fight in very cool ways. Pick up that, grab Force Emergent for a route to the almighty +1 Force rating, and get basic in a few Force powers, and you're on your way to being like Rey from The Force Awakens. I like Niman Disciple because it gives Parry, Reflect and has a +1 Force rating at the end of the tree.

If you want more routes to additional Force rating, see if the GM will let you take one of the other F&D specs. I like Starfighter Ace because it does most of what the AOR Ace spec does, plus some cool talents and a +1 FR at the end of the tree.

Of course, if through RP you get a chance to grab Jedi Padawan or Padawan Survivor - DO IT. Both specs give parry, reflect, +1 FRs and Temple Training, which helps you mod your Lightsaber.

Thanks Coridan. This is definitely some great food for thought. I will look through and consider.
Any feedback on clips for demonstration of dice pools and how to do that?

Send me a PM. I run a game on thursdays EST on Discord and you can watch it in action!

In reply to Jack Starkiller (msg # 15):

I haven’t played much F&D, so I don’t have any input there.

For the dice, it’s pretty simple once you start recognizing the symbols instead of needing to look them up. With the game I ran, though, I just suggested people use a roller that would do the counting and canceling-out for them. I stopped using physical dice after having a baby. :) I made a custom set for Dicenomicon when EotE first came out, but since then other people have put up some nice online ones. I like the one at https://rpg-dice-roller.herokuapp.com/ if you don’t want to buy FFG’s app.

Hello all,

New to this community and looking forward to discussion here.

Venting - I just left a FFG game because a player character was torturing people for information. IMO, Imperials do torturing, not rebel heroes. I wish we had a session zero so that I'd know about this scumbag villain character. He whined about me shaming him, and I told him consequences for bad actions exist, and this isn't what I'd pay $15 to see on the screen.

Have you folks ever run into this at your tables?

In reply to Coridan (msg # 22):

Not sure how familiar with the extended universe you are. I would just like to point out a few things. Saw Gerrera and the Partisans would have no issue Torturing people for information, SPOILER ABOUT STAR WARS COMIC BOOK

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Spoiler text: (Highlight or hover over the text to view)
In STAR WARS Issues 62 through 66 of the new cannon comics, the Partisians get into a fight with Luke because they are attempting to destroy an entire imperial world in retribution for Jedha

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Also in the movies, SPOILER FOR ROGUE ONE MOVIE

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Spoiler text: (Highlight or hover over the text to view)
Cassian Andor out right murdered fellow rebel Tivik to prevent the possibility of him being captured.

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Players have a different opinion of what Star Wars is, they have a different opinion of what heroes are.

People in game and out have a different opinion of what rebellion means. To the empire the rebels are a group of terrorists who murdered several thousand people when they destroyed the death star, The rebellion sees themselves as freedom fighters who will sacrifice much to shuck the yolk of fascism and create a free galaxy. Some are just more willing to cross the line to accomplish their goals
This message was lightly edited by the player at 05:29, Wed 14 Aug 2019.

@Coridan were you the GM or another player?

So I've run "antihero" games and as mentioned Rogue One touches on the fact that sometimes the rebels have to do less-than-heoric things. And that's not even getting into the EU where there are heroic Imperials and evil-as-can-be Rebels.

BUUUUT overall I agree with you. Star Wars has a pretty simple morality system and even the morally ambiguous characters like Lando and Han are good guys, just bad boys if you get my meaning.

If I was the GM and I didn't want my game to go down that route I would just put a stop to it via OOC. I don't necessarily like punishing players in-game for stuff like that. I know some people say "well run with it and make them villains and kick them out of the rebels etc." but I don't like that kind of switch without warning the players.

So, again if it was my game, and someone wants to start torturing them I would stop the session, tell them clearly that A) I don't want to run PCs like that in my game and B) that action would not be acceptable with their rebel allies.

If they insist and make a big stink out of it then I'll say they torture them, get the info they want but are branded a war criminal and I'll be converting the PC into an NPC to run as a villain. They can then roll up a new character who's morality fits better with the rest of the party.

I have played in games where one murder hobo not giving a shit has derailed the entire game and it was miserable for everyone involved. The murder hobo spent the whole time arguing with the GM, the GM kept throwing stuff at us that we didn't want to fight because murder hobo kept murder hoboing and the entire campaign ended because nobody was having fun. I wish the GM had been stronger and just been like "the guards find your character and kill him. Roll up a new character who isn't chaotic evil arsonist or find another group to play with".

As long as there is a session zero where expectations are determined, then I'm fine with it. But my default is what would appear on a Disney screen. For example, Rogue One kind of tells you what you're getting into. Here, I was blindsided. We didn't do a session zero so I took a hard pass. I really don't like torture in RPGs, period, and I could have negotiated on the point, but the horse had left the barn, so to speak.