I don't think that would have been one that I was in, then! But yes, I'm going to try to use this character again. The last few attempts haven't exactly worked out, mostly due to the usual RPOL issues. (It lasted longer than two weeks? Someone call the Guinness Book of Records!) Though one was down to an exceptionally go loud opening...

In reply to Jimena (msg # 5):

Yeah, I have no problem with edges and flaws if you guys don't, although I've always been of the opinion that WoD flaws in general are strangely severe compared to their equivalent merits. I'm not keen on fae-blooded companions and other crossover merits, though, so if you're thinking about something like that please run it by me first. Other stuff should be fine.

William "White Shadow" Moon, Homid Child of Gaia Ahroun
Appearance: https://electrothreads.com/col...riant=31003241578607

With Big Sister leaning ragabash and Shadow coming in as an ahroun, I think I'll build Jimena as a philodox. (I was starting to lean that way anyway.)

Dedicated 3 background points to Totem, may be able to pull one from Willpower if I need to.

Did anyone else?

GM, will we be able to pick a totem from the start if we have the points for it?

Naturally, I'm leaning towards Unicorn, but will remain open-minded.

  Alright, I'll stick with the Galliard default for Ghost!

  Totem 1 if we start with one, Totem 0 if we have to obtain one (because my practice in that case is to put the resulting XP into Totem dots).

  If we *are* going to choose one rather than have it assigned, Ghost's inclinations would be to find one that...

  - facilitates social interactions, or at least doesn't make them more difficult.
  - isn't excessively urban.
  - doesn't have a ban that could be exploited by by enemies.
  - won't cause tribal grief for pack members.
  - is at least somewhat insightful even if it isn't a Wisdom totem.

  So Unicorn would work (unless a Get comes along), but so would ones like Raven (absent any Glass Walkers or other moneybags types), Badger (ditto), or Chimera (no issues).

  Those are just the ones I can think of off the top of my head. I know there's a long (long long long) compiled list out there but I can't go rifle through it right now!

I was planning to have you guys start out as part of a larger pack, but if you want to buy your own totem we can make you a separate, allied pack instead. That would be fine with me.
I'll leave it up to you guys.

  How would you envisage the larger pack structure working?

In reply to Ghost-of-Silver (msg # 16):

You guys would be newish members of this pack not involved in the current power structure. Honestly, you'd probably be spun off as an independent unit with a babysitter from the older members during operations. During pack meetings, of course, you'd be part of a large group without a lot of input on making decisions.
If you guys would rather be in charge of how you approach problems, being independent would be the better option for you. If you don't care about making that kind of decisions, then it doesn't make as much difference.

I like the larger pack idea. It allows for some important NPC's to be added.

I'm not averse to the idea of a larger pack. I'm not sure the W20 rules are set up to model the nWoD Forsaken-style "extended family" packs as well, but I don't think they're terrible for it.

  I'm skeptical of a setup that leaves us with both minimal autonomy and minimal input and would lean toward the allied pack situation instead.

  Actually, maybe we could split the difference and have a situation where there are several affiliated packs that operate collectively on some levels and independently on others. Maybe this came about because the packs all have the same totem, assuming that it's one that encourages cooperation?

  That would require a fairly large sept, but a fairly large sept also leaves room for more senior figures to involve themselves in the activities without directly being in charge of the packs/PCs.

Hey all, Valgard Wulfson here, your friendly neighborhood Fenrir Theurge.

For what it's worth, I'm in agreement with Ghost. I like the idea of us being our own pack; perhaps a new one formed for some specific purpose that the sept has assigned to us with a more senior pack keeping an eye on us. I do like the idea of a large sept, since sept politics and interaction are something that most WtA games I've been in have been a little scant on.

As for totem (if we have our own pack), I generally like to start with considering what animals traditionally inhabit the area. For Austin, I'd think bat (the Congress Avenue Bridge is known for its bats), armadillo (it's Texas), boar (the area east of Austin has a lot of wild pigs), rattlesnake, hawk, mockingbird, hummingbird, etc. I actually have no idea which of those actually have write-ups (don't have my books open right now), but wanted to throw them out there.

Beyond that, I look at the tribebooks for all of the tribes we have represented and see if something from there fits. For example, I don't think Unicorn would take too kindly to a Fenrir, but from what I remember there is Black Unicorn (or something like that) in the Child of Gaia book that is a totem of war that Valgard may be able to get behind (again I don't have my books next to me right now).

Oh, and as an aside, I'm from the Dallas/Fort Worth area but currently live in San Antonio, so not too far away from Austin.

I spent a large chunk of my not so pleasant youth in Pflugerville.  I remember liking Zilker Park and almost dying there too. Strange times and small world.

I'm representing Europe, being from The Netherlands. :)

Since we're in an urban area, all the urban totems become thematically fitting too. Rat, Trash Panda, cockroach, Great Trash Heap, American Dream, etc. And while it's nice to discuss totems ooc, I think that this is the sort of thing best settled in character. Some totems may not be around, pack members may have different ideas of their own, and not all pack members are born equal.

Yep, good point, I totally forgot to mention all of the urban totems. Probably worth taking a look at the Glass Walkers and Bone Gnawers tribebooks as well.

As a general rule, I agree that the totem decision should happen in game, I think it's worth the players having an OOC discussion, just so we don't end up with a totem that runs completely opposite from what folks want to see in the game. Ideally we might come up with 5 or 6 ones we all can agree on OOC, and then let the ST run with that.

  I second that it's important to cover it OOCly because, while the characters may talk about it (once they're finished!), there's also the angle that a totem isn't likely to choose/accept a pack unless everyone (garou and spirit) are agreeable.


  Also...

  not all pack members are born equal.

  ...says the Bone Gnawer. But she's not bitter!

However, she may have a mold infection. Touch with care.

  Re the urban ones, they're potentially problematic on two fronts:

  The first is that if the pack isn't pretty much sticking to a city, they lose a lot of their oomph and may even be a hindrance. Maybe that's the plan for this game, but if it isn't then signature urban spirits aren't a great idea.

  The second is that some of them are very homid/human-oriented, and that's not going to sit so well with lupus characters (nevermind what happens if we get a Red Talon in here). Trash-Heap may be just peachy in the eyes of someone like Big Sister, but you can imagine how Ghost would feel about a totem that screams scab landfills polluting your native habitat by its very nature.

  Totems that are effective as urban/wild crossovers, on the other hand, would work quite well no matter where we end up. Rat is one option there (although 'never kill vermin' can be a lot more challenging than it sounds), but another one I like for that purpose is Raccoon - it lives in the wild, it adapts to cities, and since there's a true aficionado of trash heaps among us, well, raccoons are famously good at rifling through those too!

  Raven is a good option for the same reason, as long as we don't have anyone who swims around in their pool of Resources dots every night.


  The other option would be an umbra-focused spirit if we don't otherwise have much capability there. Chimera and Owl are the obvious go-tos for that, although I suspect that our trash heap aficionado might have issues with Owl's ban. ;)


  (I'm putting these forward as middle-ground compromises. Ghost would personally prefer Harrier if it was entirely her decision, but while some of the other characters might also like that one, others would probably find the ban annoying.)
This message was last edited by the player at 02:47, Tue 19 Nov 2019.

Honestly, the thing I'm most curious about right now is how this particular batch of characters ended up connected with each other in Austin.

I'm not especially concerned about totem, though I like the conceptual space of the "urban adapter" spirits. Austin is sprawly AF, and depending on who's been here how long, we could conceivably be associated with a spirit in a kind of mutual adoption where our chiminage helped it adapt when somebody built yet another subdivision in its original backyard.

Jimena's, ah, really homid in a lot of ways; she's not terrible at being a werewolf, but her skillset and half her backgrounds are pointed firmly at the human world. She would never have figured herself for a philodox and is still working out what it means to interpret the Litany. She'll get there, but that development is something that will happen in-game.

  My default scenario with Ghost is that she's a recent(ish) arrival from somewhere way off north, having completed her Rite of Passage there before traveling to wherever the game takes place.

  As for how the pack ends up together... well, there are lots of reasons why that could happen. Spirits, visions, omens, and prophecies are always a good 'because' in W:tA, but it's entirely likely that they just happened to be available when the need arose for a new pack to form - or they did it of their own initiative since they were among the ones without a pack yet.

  That could mean that they're newly-formed or that they've already done a few things as a pack. (Not too many things or they'd be Fostern by now!) They may also have had some connections/common activities before forming a pack.

  (Requisite Plug: Harrier as a totem would also encourage the 'odd lot that work together' situation! ;) )

  Ghost is reasonable to solid at physical and social skills but (unsurprisingly) not so great at technical and formal academic ones. Rage/curse issues notwithstanding, she has enough of a grasp of human society to (mostly) not make any major blunders there, but it's still not her favorite thing.

I think the direction we have on totems is good enough for now. Let's let the ST decide on how it will be handled eventually. I'm not going to make a 'top 5 totems' list or anything like that. The personality of the totem and the way we acquire it should be a story that's at the core of our values and history and not some ooc debate or picked solely on mechanics to get a few dots on a character sheet.

Big Sister is local, and a lifelong resident (for all her 10 or so years). She makes herself useful through scavenging and roaming for stuff and loot, but her true responsibility is taking care of the tribe's metis cubs (Ward flaw). She's close to worthless in a fight physically, and in true Ragabash fashion, is more of a sneak and one to solve her troubles underhandedly.

  Worthless in a fight physically, which is why she totes a shotgun around everywhere? I remember that one!

Last I heard it's quite dishonorable to blow off a Black Spiral alpha's head with a gun. But it sure worked. :)

Okay, so what's the consensus on having an independent pack?

For the totem of the main pack in the area, I was leaning toward Stag or Fox, but I'm open to other input. The only restriction on that is that the main pack, for reasons, doesn't have a totem of War.

And by the way, somebody brought up a good point. I'm also leaving it up to you guys whether you know each other before the story starts. If you have a pack of your own, I assume you have history. If you're starting as part of the larger pack, it's much more subject to preference.
This message was last edited by the GM at 00:41, Wed 20 Nov 2019.