This thread is intended for out of character conversation.

  Hello there. The character names give some hints, but some of us are still settling on breed/tribe/auspice, to say nothing of smaller details. What has everyone nailed down so far?

  Ghost is a Lupus/Silver Fang/Galliard, but I can shift the auspice to Ahroun or Philodox if that would be a better match.

And I'll go ahead and mention that you guys will be operating in the scope of a larger pack; so, while it would be useful for you to be able to break off and form an independent unit by yourselves, it's not mandatory the way it would be if you were by yourselves. It really depends on what style you guys would like to run as a unit.
My planning won't be affected by whatever you choose, so have it the way you want! :)

Jimena's a homid Black Fury from East Austin, involved to some extent in anti-gentrification community activism and general radicalism. She's got friends who are campus radicals at UT, but college was never going to be in the cards for her.  Auspice is a little up in the air at the moment beyond "not-a-theurge." The basics of the character would work pretty well for a ragabash, philodox, or ahroun, but in any of those cases she's got the Furies' stereotypical skillset of brawliness and attitude. Chips on both shoulders and such.

FWIW, I live in Round Rock (just north of Austin up I-35) and taught in Austin ISD for a while. I should be good for info on general things about the metro, but I can't tell you where to get the best street tacos downtown, or which of the clubs on Sixth Street is the best place to hit up on a weeknight.

Are we using merits and flaws in this game?

  They're part of the standard rules, so I guess so?

  I'd don't like the flaws that amount to 'you get some points; the negatives hit everyone' though. ('You have an enemy' ones are an example - the enemy is now a problem for the whole pack, not just that one person.)

We meet again, Ghost-of-Silver! ^^

I will be your small and runty metis Bone Gnawer scavenger, be it Ragabash or Theurge. They call me Big Sister because I take care of the other Metis, and because Gnawers have a lovely sense of humor. Although I might earn the name Trash-Talker some day.
This message was lightly edited by the player at 23:19, Sat 16 Nov 2019.

Ah...Big Sister. Played with you years ago, I think...long enough that I can't remember which character I was playing at the time. Vague suspicion that it was the game I bowed out of because players were getting vicious about the whole "alpha" thing. (I know that doesn't always narrow it down. ;) )

  I don't think that would have been one that I was in, then! But yes, I'm going to try to use this character again. The last few attempts haven't exactly worked out, mostly due to the usual RPOL issues. (It lasted longer than two weeks? Someone call the Guinness Book of Records!) Though one was down to an exceptionally go loud opening...

In reply to Jimena (msg # 5):

Yeah, I have no problem with edges and flaws if you guys don't, although I've always been of the opinion that WoD flaws in general are strangely severe compared to their equivalent merits. I'm not keen on fae-blooded companions and other crossover merits, though, so if you're thinking about something like that please run it by me first. Other stuff should be fine.

William "White Shadow" Moon, Homid Child of Gaia Ahroun
Appearance: https://electrothreads.com/col...riant=31003241578607

With Big Sister leaning ragabash and Shadow coming in as an ahroun, I think I'll build Jimena as a philodox. (I was starting to lean that way anyway.)

Dedicated 3 background points to Totem, may be able to pull one from Willpower if I need to.

Did anyone else?

GM, will we be able to pick a totem from the start if we have the points for it?

Naturally, I'm leaning towards Unicorn, but will remain open-minded.

  Alright, I'll stick with the Galliard default for Ghost!

  Totem 1 if we start with one, Totem 0 if we have to obtain one (because my practice in that case is to put the resulting XP into Totem dots).

  If we *are* going to choose one rather than have it assigned, Ghost's inclinations would be to find one that...

  - facilitates social interactions, or at least doesn't make them more difficult.
  - isn't excessively urban.
  - doesn't have a ban that could be exploited by by enemies.
  - won't cause tribal grief for pack members.
  - is at least somewhat insightful even if it isn't a Wisdom totem.

  So Unicorn would work (unless a Get comes along), but so would ones like Raven (absent any Glass Walkers or other moneybags types), Badger (ditto), or Chimera (no issues).

  Those are just the ones I can think of off the top of my head. I know there's a long (long long long) compiled list out there but I can't go rifle through it right now!

I was planning to have you guys start out as part of a larger pack, but if you want to buy your own totem we can make you a separate, allied pack instead. That would be fine with me.
I'll leave it up to you guys.

  How would you envisage the larger pack structure working?

In reply to Ghost-of-Silver (msg # 16):

You guys would be newish members of this pack not involved in the current power structure. Honestly, you'd probably be spun off as an independent unit with a babysitter from the older members during operations. During pack meetings, of course, you'd be part of a large group without a lot of input on making decisions.
If you guys would rather be in charge of how you approach problems, being independent would be the better option for you. If you don't care about making that kind of decisions, then it doesn't make as much difference.

I like the larger pack idea. It allows for some important NPC's to be added.

I'm not averse to the idea of a larger pack. I'm not sure the W20 rules are set up to model the nWoD Forsaken-style "extended family" packs as well, but I don't think they're terrible for it.

  I'm skeptical of a setup that leaves us with both minimal autonomy and minimal input and would lean toward the allied pack situation instead.

  Actually, maybe we could split the difference and have a situation where there are several affiliated packs that operate collectively on some levels and independently on others. Maybe this came about because the packs all have the same totem, assuming that it's one that encourages cooperation?

  That would require a fairly large sept, but a fairly large sept also leaves room for more senior figures to involve themselves in the activities without directly being in charge of the packs/PCs.

Hey all, Valgard Wulfson here, your friendly neighborhood Fenrir Theurge.

For what it's worth, I'm in agreement with Ghost. I like the idea of us being our own pack; perhaps a new one formed for some specific purpose that the sept has assigned to us with a more senior pack keeping an eye on us. I do like the idea of a large sept, since sept politics and interaction are something that most WtA games I've been in have been a little scant on.

As for totem (if we have our own pack), I generally like to start with considering what animals traditionally inhabit the area. For Austin, I'd think bat (the Congress Avenue Bridge is known for its bats), armadillo (it's Texas), boar (the area east of Austin has a lot of wild pigs), rattlesnake, hawk, mockingbird, hummingbird, etc. I actually have no idea which of those actually have write-ups (don't have my books open right now), but wanted to throw them out there.

Beyond that, I look at the tribebooks for all of the tribes we have represented and see if something from there fits. For example, I don't think Unicorn would take too kindly to a Fenrir, but from what I remember there is Black Unicorn (or something like that) in the Child of Gaia book that is a totem of war that Valgard may be able to get behind (again I don't have my books next to me right now).

Oh, and as an aside, I'm from the Dallas/Fort Worth area but currently live in San Antonio, so not too far away from Austin.

I spent a large chunk of my not so pleasant youth in Pflugerville.  I remember liking Zilker Park and almost dying there too. Strange times and small world.

I'm representing Europe, being from The Netherlands. :)

Since we're in an urban area, all the urban totems become thematically fitting too. Rat, Trash Panda, cockroach, Great Trash Heap, American Dream, etc. And while it's nice to discuss totems ooc, I think that this is the sort of thing best settled in character. Some totems may not be around, pack members may have different ideas of their own, and not all pack members are born equal.

Yep, good point, I totally forgot to mention all of the urban totems. Probably worth taking a look at the Glass Walkers and Bone Gnawers tribebooks as well.

As a general rule, I agree that the totem decision should happen in game, I think it's worth the players having an OOC discussion, just so we don't end up with a totem that runs completely opposite from what folks want to see in the game. Ideally we might come up with 5 or 6 ones we all can agree on OOC, and then let the ST run with that.

  I second that it's important to cover it OOCly because, while the characters may talk about it (once they're finished!), there's also the angle that a totem isn't likely to choose/accept a pack unless everyone (garou and spirit) are agreeable.


  Also...

  not all pack members are born equal.

  ...says the Bone Gnawer. But she's not bitter!

However, she may have a mold infection. Touch with care.

  Re the urban ones, they're potentially problematic on two fronts:

  The first is that if the pack isn't pretty much sticking to a city, they lose a lot of their oomph and may even be a hindrance. Maybe that's the plan for this game, but if it isn't then signature urban spirits aren't a great idea.

  The second is that some of them are very homid/human-oriented, and that's not going to sit so well with lupus characters (nevermind what happens if we get a Red Talon in here). Trash-Heap may be just peachy in the eyes of someone like Big Sister, but you can imagine how Ghost would feel about a totem that screams scab landfills polluting your native habitat by its very nature.

  Totems that are effective as urban/wild crossovers, on the other hand, would work quite well no matter where we end up. Rat is one option there (although 'never kill vermin' can be a lot more challenging than it sounds), but another one I like for that purpose is Raccoon - it lives in the wild, it adapts to cities, and since there's a true aficionado of trash heaps among us, well, raccoons are famously good at rifling through those too!

  Raven is a good option for the same reason, as long as we don't have anyone who swims around in their pool of Resources dots every night.


  The other option would be an umbra-focused spirit if we don't otherwise have much capability there. Chimera and Owl are the obvious go-tos for that, although I suspect that our trash heap aficionado might have issues with Owl's ban. ;)


  (I'm putting these forward as middle-ground compromises. Ghost would personally prefer Harrier if it was entirely her decision, but while some of the other characters might also like that one, others would probably find the ban annoying.)
This message was last edited by the player at 02:47, Tue 19 Nov 2019.

Honestly, the thing I'm most curious about right now is how this particular batch of characters ended up connected with each other in Austin.

I'm not especially concerned about totem, though I like the conceptual space of the "urban adapter" spirits. Austin is sprawly AF, and depending on who's been here how long, we could conceivably be associated with a spirit in a kind of mutual adoption where our chiminage helped it adapt when somebody built yet another subdivision in its original backyard.

Jimena's, ah, really homid in a lot of ways; she's not terrible at being a werewolf, but her skillset and half her backgrounds are pointed firmly at the human world. She would never have figured herself for a philodox and is still working out what it means to interpret the Litany. She'll get there, but that development is something that will happen in-game.

  My default scenario with Ghost is that she's a recent(ish) arrival from somewhere way off north, having completed her Rite of Passage there before traveling to wherever the game takes place.

  As for how the pack ends up together... well, there are lots of reasons why that could happen. Spirits, visions, omens, and prophecies are always a good 'because' in W:tA, but it's entirely likely that they just happened to be available when the need arose for a new pack to form - or they did it of their own initiative since they were among the ones without a pack yet.

  That could mean that they're newly-formed or that they've already done a few things as a pack. (Not too many things or they'd be Fostern by now!) They may also have had some connections/common activities before forming a pack.

  (Requisite Plug: Harrier as a totem would also encourage the 'odd lot that work together' situation! ;) )

  Ghost is reasonable to solid at physical and social skills but (unsurprisingly) not so great at technical and formal academic ones. Rage/curse issues notwithstanding, she has enough of a grasp of human society to (mostly) not make any major blunders there, but it's still not her favorite thing.

I think the direction we have on totems is good enough for now. Let's let the ST decide on how it will be handled eventually. I'm not going to make a 'top 5 totems' list or anything like that. The personality of the totem and the way we acquire it should be a story that's at the core of our values and history and not some ooc debate or picked solely on mechanics to get a few dots on a character sheet.

Big Sister is local, and a lifelong resident (for all her 10 or so years). She makes herself useful through scavenging and roaming for stuff and loot, but her true responsibility is taking care of the tribe's metis cubs (Ward flaw). She's close to worthless in a fight physically, and in true Ragabash fashion, is more of a sneak and one to solve her troubles underhandedly.

  Worthless in a fight physically, which is why she totes a shotgun around everywhere? I remember that one!

Last I heard it's quite dishonorable to blow off a Black Spiral alpha's head with a gun. But it sure worked. :)

Okay, so what's the consensus on having an independent pack?

For the totem of the main pack in the area, I was leaning toward Stag or Fox, but I'm open to other input. The only restriction on that is that the main pack, for reasons, doesn't have a totem of War.

And by the way, somebody brought up a good point. I'm also leaving it up to you guys whether you know each other before the story starts. If you have a pack of your own, I assume you have history. If you're starting as part of the larger pack, it's much more subject to preference.
This message was last edited by the GM at 00:41, Wed 20 Nov 2019.

From a player standpoint, I like the independent pack. It makes it much easier for a game to endure when the players have a sense of both ownership and purpose.

I also, though, am a little leery of jumping into a new-to-the-players pack with so many pre-existing characters. I've seen too many games where everybody comes to the table with their own competing versions of what Werewolf (the game) and what a werewolf should be...and "we're playing the game together" smashes all these characters who might not like each other at all into a pack. There's almost always some metagaming early on in terms of fudging decisions toward party unity, but with such a disparate lot of garou as we seem to have, we might need strong external pressure on the PCs to even get them to hang out, never mind form a pack. (I'm not saying that everybody in a pack needs to get along all the time, but it can be really hard to cultivate a shared sense of purpose when characters have radically different worldviews. Even when the players all get along perfectly, the differences tend to take over big swathes of the storytelling. The story becomes about intra-pack relations rather than any of the other cool stuff out there.)

  The PCs are going to be in that situation regardless of whether they're 'new' for the game or not, unless you're dealing with a restricted scenario where they all belong to the same tribe or something similar.

  Whether or not the characters (and players!) have sufficiently flexible personalities and concepts that they can adapt to being in situations that might not be quite what was originally envisaged is an important factor.

  This is also why it's useful to write them in as having already formed connections before becoming a pack and to have some presumed time as a pack - it means that they already HAVE found reasons to get along, or at least get along more than they don't. (Many modern game systems now incorporate the idea as both a thematic and mechanical part of character generation for exactly this reason.)


  So, maybe Jimena has occasionally been called on to referee disputes between some of Big Sister's charges - hands-on experience for her, hands-on demonstration for the ones that are half-moons.

  White Shadow and Valgard may have formed an unlikely friendship as sparring partners/drinking buddies/fans of the same sports team.

  Ghost may have been on security patrols around the Bawn with White Shadow - and had one anothers' backs against a few minor threats during that time.

  Etc.

  Things like that make it much easier to explain why they ended up forming a pack - even if they didn't all have a history with every other member, there are enough threads between them to overcome any initial difficulties.

lol Apocalypse World has nice mechanics for this sort of thing. :)

Okay, how about this?
In the following list, everybody come up with one bond your PC shares with the PC below you. It can be as tenuous or as strong as you like, subject to the other player's approval, but it should be a bond that's interesting enough to explain why you'd choose to hang out with them or jump into a fight alongside them, should the need arise.
All bonds have to be agreed upon by all parties involved, so expect a bit of give-and-take.
You're welcome to come up with additional bonds, if you like. Only this one is mandatory.

• Big Sister
• Ghost-of-Silver
• Jimena
• Valgard
• White Shadow
• Big Sister

I've left out the character 'Quoi' because ze hasn't logged in yet and I'm gonna rMail hir to see if ze's still interested.

((ST beat me in here--if we're going with a pre-existing pack, I'd still be up for auspice-based "when the pack came together" questions))



It might be a good idea to adapt or steal something along these lines--like Masks' "When the team came together..." questions (we could maybe rig them by auspice). WtA has such a huge thematic and tonal space. I'm not getting a strong sense of where we, individually or collectively, want to be in that space. My experience with oWoD games (don't get me started on Exalted) is that players often have really strong ideas regarding what the game is about and what a garou "should" be. If we can establish, however obliquely, some shared understanding of that before play starts, I think we'll probably save ourselves some drama later. That player-driven drama has killed more of the werewolf games I've been involved in than I've had die by attrition.

So, cards on the table:

Things I like in Werewolf Games (in no particular order)
-The Umbra (especially when it's beautiful, weird, and scary all at once)
-Occasionally getting to be a giant lupine killing machine
-Packs as occasionally dysfunctional families where everybody still actually cares about each other
-Conflicts grounded in real world stakes
-Knowing the odds are against us and fighting for every last scrap of hope we can find

Things I dislike in Werewolf Games(in no particular order)
-Player fights over who gets to be alpha, and heavy emphasis on "alpha-ness" in general; constant IC calls for challenges
-"I am the Destined Hero and this is My Story" (NB: emphasis here on spotlight-hogging and playing in a self-centered way. I'm okay with destiny/prophecy more generally as a story element).
-Going entirely grimdark and humorless
-Making everything about Pentex

  Where we're going to be in that space depends a lot on what the GM has in mind re the setting/scenarios that we'll be dealing with. One of the reasons I like to use Ghost as a character (and I suspect that this is also true of Trash Talker/Big Sister) is that she's fairly adaptable to different contexts, and if I got the feeling that that wasn't the case with a given game then I'd either go for another character or pass on the game entirely.


  I don't see any particular issues with the things you listed as liking/disliking. If anything, I've seen games try to treat Pentex as some 'mysterious unknown' more often than putting it front and center. (I don't think that meshes too well with the way the setting is structured, so I don't care for that idea myself, but I do agree that it shouldn't be behind every last little thing.)

In reply to Ghost-of-Silver (msg # 38):

Hm. All right, in the interest of transparency, I'll shed some light on my part of the story. Notice I say my part, because I want you guys to have just as much input on where the story goes as I do. Railroading is for convention games and one-shots. I don't see any reason to drag you guys along a prescribed storypath in a PBP setting.

I have a general metaplot regarding the larger pack in the area that's going to unfold, with or without your participation. You'll be able to influence it or ignore it as you see fit. If it interests you, I'll give you as much agency in the world as you want. (And as much as you can convince me makes logical sense.) If it doesn't interest you, you'll find the world changing around you as you mind your own business. As it does.
I have a couple of objectives planned for your starting scenario, just to get into the swing of things. You'll have a mission and you'll be able to approach it any which-way that suits you. It may or may not involve Pentex. lol ;) (Even if they do show up in the first mission, though, I promise they're not the only Big Bad out there.)
I have themes I wanna hit in this game. To me, Werewolf, even more than Vampire or Mage, has really strong themes about who your character is and what ze faces and why that matters. So a lot of the stuff I throw at you is going to tend toward one of the main themes of the story, but I try to avoid (with various degrees of success) being too hamfisted in my approach to morality plays. Regardless of meta, the story should always be about the characters, not the moral of the story.

Other than that, I want to explore stories that will matter to your characters. That's why I do character questionnaires and why I ask for prologue material. I want us to have a shared space to explore the stories that matter to all of us. If we just wanted to run through dungeons and kill monsters we'd be playing that other game, but we're playing Storyteller. That means we're in it for more than the kill count. (Although, you lot being werewolves, I do expect the kill count to do any paladin of Tempus proud. lol)

All right, enough soapboxing from me. Back to you guys!


P.S.--Although I've specified that I don't want corebook crossover on your character sheets, that doesn't mean there aren't other critters out there, and I'm not saying you can't or won't meet them. Werewolf being what it is, there's at least a fair chance you'll cross some vampires along the way--that is to say, they're out there whether you actually face them or not, and don't be surprised if you do. Also don't be surprised if the vampires you meet don't line up exactly with WoD canon. Since you're not vampires, nor mages, nor changelings, nor wraiths, nor mummies, nor--you know what I mean--I like to keep them open to surprising you, and in the real world that means changing what's in the books. That's the main reason I didn't want any continuity crossover in the beginning: I don't want you to depend on information that may or may not be accurate in this setting.
I am not saying that you will ever be able to play vampires in this game [fixed the wording to avoid confusion--JA]. I'm just saying I'm not opposed to you winding up with Kindred friends, rivals, and/or lovers.
'Nuff said.
This message was last edited by the GM at 13:11, Wed 20 Nov 2019.

Sorry I was silent yesterday, was stuck in a conference for over 12 hours...so, I'm playing a little catchup...

1) Valgard's Background: Valgard was born in the "bad part" of Austin, the child of a single "exotic dancer". At the age of 13, he got in a fight with a couple of older "tough boys" that called his mother a whore. He had his first change, and would have killed them both had his father, who had been secretly keeping tabs on him, intervened.

His father is Stalks-the-Wyrm, an Adren Lupus Fenrir Ahroun (that's right, his father is lupus, he is homid) member of the sept (mentor). A week after his first change, Stalks took Valgard to Norway to a "proper Fenrir sept" for training and to undergo a "proper" Fenrir Rite of Passage. He has returned recently (fitting with necessary plot or background ties) to join a pack try and earn his father's respect (there are daddy issues because he was born a crescent moon instead of full moon).

2) Re: Pack dynamics/why are we a pack...

I think there are a few ways to go about this. One way I've seen that I like is that the pack was dictated by the sept leaders to deal with a specific issue. This might be to deal with "those vampires over there," or to find a lost fetish in the umbra, or whatever. We were chosen specifically to be members of the pack for "reasons"; maybe we're the only packless cliath's, maybe there are issues between some of the tribes here, and making a multi-tribe pack of cliath is a way to show how the tribes can work together better. Extra points of there's a Shadow Lord who, for "reasons", wants to see the pack fail, and made sure it included a Fury and Fenrir (always volatile), and a Gnawer and Silver Fang, to sow discontent.

I like this approach because it doesn't require us to shoehorn backgrounds so everyone knows each other, it gives us a reason to work together even if we don't like each other (for example Valgard wants to succeed because that means Glory for him, which leads to earning respect from his father, so he'll work with whoever he has to). And it helps narrow down the totem search. If we have a specific purpose, that will dictate the best totem; war is probably the best way to go for killing vampires, while a totem that grants bonuses in the umbra (owl, uktena, etc.) would make sense if we've been tasked to search the umbra.

3)

I'm curious what exactly you mean by this. I totally agree that players fighting over who gets to be alpha is a sure-fire way to destroy a game. But, I do think pack alpha, dominance and submission, and the like are an integral part of Werewolf and completely dismissing them from the game changes it significantly. For example, the "offset" to the game mechanics advantages that metis get, beyond their flaw, is that they're generally treated like crap by other garou. Many of the mechanics of the game are specifically designed to bring this aspect of the game out. Pure Breed is a perfect example, and something I would expect our Silver Fang to exert. There is no reason that character disagreements/challenges should ever become player issues.

Now, I agree that "constant" IC challenges are not helpful, and something that a good Philodox should deal with, but being able to challenge the pack alpha if you don't like their way of doing things is, I believe, part and parcel to the Werewolf experience, just not when you're out on a mission where there is no time for such nonsense. That should happen back at the sept between missions. With that being said, since we have a Silver Fang in the group, I think the assumption, at least in Valgard's eyes, is that she will start as the pack alpha.

4) I'm in agreement with Jimena's "like" list, but would add another; sept life. ST, as you keep mentioning a "larger pack", I wonder if that could instead be a sept? That would still provide a hierarchy over our pack, and allow us to explore other aspects of sept life, like moots, caern rites, sept positions, having to deal with other packs if our mission takes us into their territory, etc. It's an aspect of Werewolf that I feel often gets lost, and is something I feel that sets it apart from other games. Like Jimena said, the pack should be a family (albeit likely dysfunctional), while the sept should be our extended family.

  And I just woken up again, so...

  1) Dad doesn't like theurges specifically or just thinks that only ahroun are 'real garou'? Even among the Fenrir I'm not sure he'd be popular for espousing that.

  2) Okay, I'm going to toss out a like/dislike: Shadow Lords shouldn't always be mustache-twirling bad guys (whether openly or secretly) just because. ;)

  3) Not all packs stick to the 'traditional' leadership structures, but even if they do, outright leadership challenges shouldn't happen very often. If there isn't a legitimate case to be made that the leadership NEEDS to change then it will have bad effects both out of game and in-setting.

  This doesn't preclude all kinds of disputation among the members, and how someone approaches the alpha role also matters a great deal, as does the level of trust that the other pack members have in their judgement, but changing leaders, even in peacetime, isn't something that a pack should treat lightly. It certainly shouldn't be happening often or everyone (both inside and outside of the pack) is going to see that as a sign that something is wrong.

  4) Re the large pack and whether it should be a sept, @20 Changing Ways actually addresses this situation: in short, extremely large packs can/do exist but are almost always transitory or in the process of becoming septs in their own right as groups form within it to focus specific concerns.

  That could be part of the background here: some or all of the PCs may have started out among the large pack, but it's slowly spinning off its members into smaller packs. It could go either way as to whether that means that a new sept is eventually in the offing or there's just a dispersal within the existing one.

Holy huge walls of text Batman!

Alright. Still like the large pack idea. As for Alpha, we all know Big Sister is going to be alpha. She can take care of Metis, so she can be pack momma as well. No questions asked, no further debate necessary, no challenges required, all settled. Yay!

So, my likes/dislikes on W:tA:

Likes:
-Playing the inhuman. A Metis has a very distinct worldly outlook, solely formed by the Garou culture. Both humans and wolves are alien to them when they are born, and the inherent injustice in their existence and the scorn heaped on them makes for lovely RP.
-Character development. I like to play a character that grows. Big Sister is quite young, barely Cliath and not far since her first change, so that's what? 10 years old? Still old enough to appreciate the lifetime of abuse and scorn heaped on her and what's yet to come, but having her first real pack, and the experiences she has with it, will have an effect on her as a person.
-Bone Gnawers doing unconventional stuff that pisses off other tribes.

Dislikes:
-Long walks in the umbra.
-Fighting unnamed mooks.
-Losing track of 800 pound murder machine Metis cubs.

  Okay, yes, cards-on-the-table-ish, Ghost is a Fang and thereby likely to be the pack alpha to begin with, if only because the sept will expect it. ("Why isn't the Fang speaking for you? Just what terrible secrets are you lot trying to hide!?")

  That said, she isn't inclined to be an alpha-ish alpha (per Jimena's dislikes). Leadership is complex, and it definitely doesn't involve treating everyone else as your minions. ("That's how the Shadow Lords do it!" quoth the peanut gallery.)
This message had punctuation tweaked by the player at 21:45, Wed 20 Nov 2019.

About “emphasis on alpha-ness”—I’ve seen too many players who want the alpha position to be a perfect autocracy, and any expression of dissent or alternatives becomes “challenge me or shut your pie-hole” (even when not in the field). Dominance and submission—to some extent—are absolutely part of a werewolf game. But dominance should not be domination. Submission should not be silencing. I know that good players don’t do this, especially not intentionally, but I’ve seen a lot of people who treat being alpha as simply being the biggest, most effective bully. As long as being alpha is more about leadership than power, I should be good.

Ghost:

1)  This goes a bit more into the backstory, but Stalks "bade his Godi (theurge) to cast runes (a Fenrir thing) to determine what night to mate with the woman to ensure that when his child was born the stars and planets would be aligned to produce a great warrior and Gaia's sister Luna would be full in the night sky."

So when he found out that Valgard was a Godi, he was disappointed. Now, that's probably not a popular opinion, but it's his. He doesn't have a problem with other people's children being theurges (or other auspices), but his should be an ahroun. This even caused Valgard to initially request a Rite of Renunciation to become an ahroun, but he was visited by a spirit the night before that changed his mind.

2) True, shadow lords shouldn't always be portrayed as mustache-twirling bad guys (I love the shadow lords), but sometimes when the shoe fits....;)

3) I absolutely agree there are various leadership styles, my only point is that the concept of alpha is ingrained into the psyche of werewolves. Now, if the alpha wants to always consult the pack prior to making a decision (assuming there is time to do so), that would make them a pretty effective, and likable leader.

I'm also not a fan of, "I don't like what decision you just made, so I'm going to challenge you." That's not really a good reason to challenge, and a good philodox will either cut that short, or establish a challenge that hugely favors the alpha and makes the challenger look stupid. Now, if the alpha makes a decision, perhaps against the recommendations of some of the pack members, that leads to a serious mission failure and perhaps the death of one of the pack members, I would consider that an appropriate opportunity for a challenge.

4) Hmm, I haven't read that, I should check it out.

Jimena:
That's why I wanted clarification. I am totally on board with everything you said. There are good leaders who consult the pack, take into account everyone's strengths and weaknesses, and lead with compassion. Then there are the Get :p But in all honestly, I think we're on the same page.

And I forgot to add one of my dislikes:
"It's what my character would do..." - This phrase should never be used as an excuse to destroy other players' fun, destroy the pack dynamics, or ruin our collective story. I am a firm believer that all of us (players and ST) enter into a social contract that we are playing together as a sort of team. We the player's control the characters, not the other way around, so we can't abdicate responsibility for poor conduct because of the character. You made the character, you can change the character to fit within the group dynamic.

So while yes I am playing a Get of Fenris and there might be some tense moments with our Fury (because that can make for good story), I will never put the story in a situation where it's him or her, or try to ruin Jimena's player's fun, or anybody else.

If I ever seem to be getting close to that line, please say something in OOC or send me a PM.

We're a pack.  We are brothers and sisters.  The wisest and most experienced will often be turned to to make those final or split decision calls.  We are wolf, man, and spirit, with the minds and strengths of each, don't limit yourself.  I'll have your backs, and nip your flanks if you get out of line.
This message was last edited by the player at 01:58, Thu 21 Nov 2019.

You're right, absolutely. They should be a sept. The large pack has only been around in its current form for ~2 decades for reasons, and they do spin off satellite packs to improve their area and keep numbers manageable, but there's no reason they shouldn't have a caern.
And I'll check out Changing Ways, Ghost-of-Silver. Maybe it'll be on sale for Black Friday? :) [fingers crossed]

Incidentally, since so many of us are from or familiar with the Austin area, do you have any preferences or brainwaves on where the caern should be located? I'm thinking somewhere to do with the Edwards Aquifer, but I haven't nailed down a site yet.

Before I forget:
Everybody that submits a prologue (it doesn't have to be much) and the completed Character Questionnaire gets 7 extra Freebie Points to spend as you will.
Also, I'm a proponent of test runs on new characters. If your character doesn't perform as you'd like during the first few scenes, you're welcome to revise anything you need to. Just let me know and let other players know if it's any of their business.

Austin Community Landfill! The Bone Gnawers have the Caern there, with the mighty Great Trash Heap as the Guardian Totem. Booyah!

Very limited ability to post from my phone, but Barton Springs needs a powerful salamander spirit. Zilker seems like it has too many festivals in it to be a proper bawn, but if Central Park works, it might work also.

Or near lake Travis somewhere.  I was a kid when I last bed there so Memory not so good and I’m sure it’s changed a lot in 35 years

  I seem to be one of the few that doesn't live near the area, so my only input is that the place should probably be passable to a variety of garou tribes/breeds/etc.

Barton Creek Wilderness Park, maybe? That would be close enough to Zilker to put Barton Springs reasonably into the sept's responsibilities.

...Barton Creek Habitat Preserve is out a little farther. Pedernales Falls State Park might also work, though it's getting pretty far out from Austin proper. There's not a lot that's open and not under development inside the rough loop defined by Mopac, 45, and 130.

You know, Barton Creek Wilderness Park is nice, but it's adjacent to a major highway intersection. I like Barton Creek Habitat Preserve better. Plus, it's farther away from the center of everything so it makes sense the pack started to form splinter packs to branch out.
Let's say the sept is based there, out near Bee Caves. Other, satellite packs can have turf in the other places you guys mentioned. Maybe they've set up some smaller caerns with Moon Bridges established to assist in getting around quickly.
Sound good to everyone?

I am in the 'never been to Austin, or the Americas for that matter' camp, so all fine here. :)

  That sounds fine to me - we've presumably got the 'secretly owned/managed by some garou/kinfolk' thing going to ensure that it actually *stays* a preserve?

In reply to Ghost-of-Silver (msg # 56):

That's what kinfolk are for! :-J Let's just say they have more of an 'understanding' with the leeches of the city than some of your brothers and sisters would like, and since the suckers have a vested interest in keeping the majority of the scary claw monsters outside the middle of their hunting ground for the vast bulk of the time, they help keep stupid mortals from doing something in character and turning the preserve into an office park and an outlet mall. As they already have in much of the Barton Springs area.

P.S.--And if you don't think that's a point of contention at every. Single. Pack meeting, then you've obviously never been to a family reunion before. Or else your family is way more chill than mine is. lol
This message was last edited by the GM at 15:13, Sun 24 Nov 2019.

Man. I'm imagining Kindred at all the festivals at Zilker (and elsewhere) now...

Who else did their Rite of Passage locally and within the last year or so?

  The politics of that are going to be fun if we ever have the (mis)fortune to become tangled up in them. Good thing that we don't have any urban garou among us... oh, wait.

  Ghost would've had her RoP way up north, and probably not within the last year either.

Valgard's Rite of Passage was in Norway.

I can always lean on "Fury-ness" and have Jimena's take place at some isolated Fury-controlled sept, but I kind of liked the idea of perhaps having a Fury "ambassador" help shape something local. (It's also entirely possible, of course, that the Furies have enough presence in the Barton Preserve Sept to shape a local Rite accordingly.)

  I'm pretty sure that Big Sister is local, though obviously not a Fury.

  Given the size of the 'big' pack and the fact that it either is currently or started out as part of some other sept(s), it shouldn't be too hard to have Fury connections across the wider area if Jimena was to go for an all-Fury rite.

  It wouldn't even need a lot of them around - just one or two would enough to introduce her to tribal lore and arrange a solo trial (not all RoPs are group affairs).

  Or she was part of a larger RoP group, some or all of whom joined the 'big' pack afterward but didn't necessarily stay together when it began to spin off smaller ones. (This would also be a good reason to have Ally/Contact/Mentor backgrounds.)

Out of curiosity, what are the general ages people are thinking of going with? I was assuming 16-19 based on us all being new cliaths, but want to make sure I'm on the same page with the rest of you.

Being Metis, Big Sister is likely 10 or so.

Jimena's 19, having experienced her First Change on the "late side of normal."

Sounds good, Valgard is going to be 18.

  Ghost would look a little older than that, though not by much, but being lupus she has different relative aging.
This message was last edited by the player at 01:46, Mon 25 Nov 2019.

I was thinking 21-22, myself

  Where's White Shadow from? A local or an arrival?

Local

in reply to Jimena & Ghost-of-Silver (msgs #62-63)

There are plenty enough local Furies in this area to make a proper Rite, and I'm not averse to having a dedicated Fury pack in proximity if it suits your backstory.

It feels like the pack is gelling pretty well. Do you guys feel like you're about ready to start?
Did we ever decide whether to have a separate pack or have you guys be part of the sept? --because so far, my impression is that we'll just have you in the sept and you can always branch off later if you prefer.

It may just be a terminology thing, but my thought was we were going to be our own pack within the Sept. With the Sept having x number of other packs.

If not, I have a couple of points in Totem I may want to rearrange.

  My take on it is that the mega-pack was in the process of spinning off into smaller packs, so we're technically separate but still closely connected. That gives some balance between independence and mutual support.

  Whether that mega-pack is in the process of establishing a new caern/sept or was just operating within the bounds of an existing one was left open though.

I'm good with being part of the Sept, but the whole starting situation is a bit vague to me so far. seeing as we don't really know each other's characters, being an existing pack is a bit awkward to me.

  If they've been part of the mega-pack that is now breaking down into smaller ones then the characters would know one another at least somewhat, even if the players don't have a clue. They wouldn't necessarily have been configured as a pack until now though.


  GM, if we're operating as an independent-but-close pack in that vein, what's the call on the Totem?

Big Sister, I completely agree with you that trying to build up that rapport that an existing pack would have is difficult if not impossible.

But what if we are a newly formed pack, perhaps not even gone on our Totem quest yet (so not even actually a pack yet...)? My thought is the elders of the Sept/Mega-Pack dictated the formation of our pack for reasons best left to our ST. We were each chosen/selected for one reason or another (maybe the Furies, who we now know have a healthy presence, wanted skin in the game and nominated Jimena, Valgard's father wants him to earn glory so nominated him, the Silver Fangs want to make sure a Fang leads the pack, etc.).

Given that scenario, some of us could know each other based on shared backgrounds, but we don't have to know each other or have any rapport built up. In this case we're not an organically formed pack, but rather told, "you're a pack now, deal with it."

The 'newly formed pack' is a bit of a cliche though, isn't it? And with my background, there would be some odd circumstances for BS joining it.

  We were supposed to come up with connections to at least two others based on that list a few posts back. That gives enough common ground that everyone doesn't have to know everyone right away.

  I'm skeptical about totem quests, mainly because my experience is that games don't survive them for one reason or another. :P

The connections aren't so much the problem as Big Sister's 3 Metis cubs she has to take care of. Before anything, the question needs to be answered why the 4 of them are sent away to a different sept, and then why Big Sister would then join a pack while she also has to care of the Metis. That's why the 'Large Pack' idea fit me a lot better. That's more of a Sept situation where a large group of Garou already live and work together and have all sorts of different roles. In that context, it's a lot easier to have such an established role.

  If the cubs are going to keep the character in the city pretty much all the time then the character probably isn't going to work very well as a PC. Moving them out of the city won't really help if the character is STILL stuck in one spot because they can't get around to do things - not just geographically, but umbral expeditions become a no-go.

  Maybe with the extra 7 points you could drop them as wards and make them into Contacts (or a collective Ally)? That keeps the character connection around without the tie-down, and with the three having (presumably) made it through their RoP, Big Sister is due for a new assignment.

'Caring of Metis' is at the core of Big sister's character, not a side job. It's not even voluntary, this duty got assigned to her if she wanted it or not in the ever present 'dump unwanted shit on the metis' Garou mentality (another key part of her character). That's why it's a Ward flaw. Even if some cubs move on and complete their Rite of Passage, new Metis keep getting dumped on her. By now, word is spreading of the Bone Gnawer metis nanny. Now I get this is inconvenient if you want to join a pack, but that's the fun of this character; nothing is ever easy for Big Sister, and Garou society is very unfair, but she has no way out and has to find her way through it. Even if her pack members call into question why she has to spend so much time away from them on her other duties. It's like trying to have steady RP sessions with a single parent of 3 young children. ^^

  Tangential, but Quoi still hasn't logged on, so I guess they're out...

  Were the Jimena <-> Valgard <-> White Shadow <-> Big Sister connections worked out or are those still pending?

Valgard and I have figured things out, yeah. I need to finalize and type up my character sheet, but should otherwise be good to go.

To be honest I missed the post about the required relationship.  I'll get on that tonight and hopefully have it wrapped up by tomorrow if Big Sister is around.

:-J It was more of a brainstorm than a hard requirement, really, but if it helps the pack--then yet. Totally a requirement. lol

As far as Big Sister's cubs go, I don't see an issue--she has her responsibilities in home life and then she has her pack duties. Now I'm not super keen on roleplaying as a single, pre-teen mother, but if that's what BS wants to run then I'm all for it. It's my understanding that the cubs need parenting, not breastfeeding, so she should be able to leave one of them in charge if she has to go away on an overnight.
I'm not particularly interested in totem quests, so if you guys want a totem of your own I'm down with it, but would prefer you just pay the background dots and get the one you want.
Regarding the Sept totem: you know, I had a thought. What about Salamander? It feels like it would go pretty well with the whole Barton Springs area. (The Barton Springs Salamander is an endangered species on Wikipedia, and the totem is all about wetlands conservation. And, you know, not killing salamanders. lol) What do you guys think?

To those that are so inclined, Happy American Thanksgiving! and safe travels if you're on the road like I am today.
To those that are not, Happy Thursday!

And to one and all, may the bounty of the season be with you and yours!
Choose one free dot of Resources or a free dot of Allies (Contacts if it works better) as a holiday bonus!

Ah, to clarify some things:
Big sister is (barely) an adult by Garou standards. Metis and wolves age quicker then humans. She is fully grown. Easy mistake to make, since her malnourishment and runty stature might certainly make her look like a skinny young teen from a small distance, especially in the group with the cubs.
Big Sister is not a mom. She's more of a nanny. Wait, those get paid... umm.. the oldest kid in the group taking care of the younger ones? Probably the best approximation. It is also her Duty with the capitol D. Garou Duties are serious business. If something happens to a cub while she's off gallivanting with the pack there will be hell to pay.

I like Salamander. You'll find lizards in the cities too, so it's something Big Sister would be passingly familiar with.

Resources? WOOO! I CAN FINALLY BUY BURGERS!.... What do you mean I can't hold a day job? Boooo!

Do we start in an urban area? That's foremost on my mind right now.

  From the earlier post, Barton Creek Habitat Preserve. Which I don't know anything about, but judging by the name it isn't likely to be an urban center...

It's not far out of Austin--about 10 miles from downtown. There are subdivisions running up to the foot of the preserve.

@BigSister - ;-) Noted. lol
And as they said, the Preserve is close enough to the city center that commuting shouldn't be an issue for you, even if you wanted to travel it on paw for whatever reason.

Hello everyone. I was hoping to join the pack as a Homid, Ragabash, Shadow Lord.

Concept: Black Hat Cowboy Badass

Appearance/Personality: Black Stetson hat and a devilish smile. His watch and style speak to great wealth. He has manicured black hair and a well trimmed mustache. His eyes twinkle with excitement and mischief. He is always willing to take a big risk for a big payoff but more often takes risks just for the thrill of it. He revels excessively in his victories, and broods and plots when defeated.

Before I create the character I need the pack to agree on this character. I have another back up character in mind, if the pack in significantly opposed.

Black hat? As in hacker? AND cowboy? AND classic machiavellian? Nyeh... Sounds more like a collection of stats then a real person.

  Probably not a hacker if he's a cowboy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...at_symbolism_in_film

  Edit: Wait, well-trimmed mustache? Come on now, it needs to be long enough to keep waxed for a proper twirling now and then!

  I am curious as to what the second one would be though...
This message was last edited by the player at 21:29, Sat 30 Nov 2019.

Lee van Cleef never needed to twirl a mustache...

In reply to Big Sister (msg # 94):

Ghost-of Silver is correct- The black hat is to symbolize his devious nature. I am about as far away from a hacker as possible.

His family (kinfolk) are wealthy cattle ranchers (non-gmo, free-range, etc). They mostly run the business side of things. Rides-the-Lighting has a cocky cowboy attitude mixed with Shadow Lord plotting. No waxed mustache, a man has to have some lines he is not willing to cross.


My second character idea would be a Homid Uktena Ahroun.

College athlete that is starting to really connect with his Indian & Garou heritage.

  What is the Shadow Lord's auspice?

Homid Ragabash Shadow Lord

  As long as the plotting and risk-taking doesn't undermine the pack (or put it in jeopardy) I don't have an issue with the first character.

  I will admit that I slightly favor the second one though, mainly because I've yet to see an well-played Uktena that lasted. (Game collapse and/or player disappearance have pretty much claimed them all...)

I like the second one better too. It might mesh better.

I guess I'm the oddball, I actually prefer the shadow lord. Mainly because I love the shadow lords and would love to see one done well, and I like the concept.

And I for one would love to see his plotting and risk taking get us into trouble. Valgard wouldn't like him, but I would.

I too like the shadow lord

I'm ambivalent. I feel like the Shadow Lord is more likely to bounce antagonistically off of other characters (particularly since at least one person mentioned 'mustache-twirling' Shadow Lords in a list of turn-offs [and yes, I know we've established that said mustache is not hipster enough to twirl]). I also think it would be interesting, though, given Austin's horrible sprawl, to have a group of kinfolk with a lot of land outside the city (probably east). It's easy for me to imagine that nobody really likes the Shadow Lord presence, but they're all a little beholden to them for hunting rights and rite rights and such.

Based on popular sentiment, for the sake of moving things along I'm going to rule:
You guys are not a separate pack yet, but you're being groomed with the intention you'll become one of the splinter packs the sept spools off.
There's been more Wyrm activity lately, so the Philodoxes have come to agree that we need more coverage over the deeper parts of the city. The sept's totem is Salamander, so for Gaia's sake don't step on any lizards.
Sound good?

...Amphibians...sorry

  Uhm, can anyone post the full details for Salamander? (I can look them up later but sooner is better.)

In reply to Ghost-of-Silver (msg # 107):

http://wiki.rpol.net/?id=74277/salamander

RPOL Wiki URLs always look funky to me... Does that link work for you guys?

  That works. Although now I wonder two other things: how do we deal with the shared abilities (we aren't the only ones splitting them), and how amped-up is it with 20+ garou's worth of Totem dots?

  Where else are we with start readiness? Characters sheets done (except maybe Rides-The-Lightning)? Background stuff generally set?

I'm good with the proposed start. And I think those super-pack totem dots more represent a sept totem then a pack totem at this point. And I'm good to start I think.
This message was last edited by the player at 23:23, Tue 03 Dec 2019.

Yeah I’m ready.  If we can’t settle on a pack totem I can buy a spirit ally with my points instead.  Figure that can be hashed out later.

  Apparently we're using Salamander until we officially spin off from the bigger pack. Then it's wide open.

I'm just refining my sheet; down to re-spending my freebies now that I have a better concept of the character.

Ghost, that is the impression I was getting.  So I'm raring to go.

  Valgard? Rides? How about you?

  Silence...

  I hope we haven't lost them all already!

I am still here, just waiting for the storyteller to respond before I move forward with a character.

Okay. This week is beyond nuts for me as I'm GMing a game on Saturday and doing last-minute prep now. It sounds like everybody is pretty much ready to go, though, so I'll make the first narrative post next week, hopefully Monday.

  Which version will be along for the Rides?

  Alright. We're a task group (so to speak) within the large pack, and internally we probably more or less organize as one. Ghost presumably acts as alpha if for no other reason than that it's expected, and one of us has three (I think?) dependents to worry about along with the usual pack considerations.

  Does anyone else have stray wards/kin/allies/etc that we might need to take into consideration (if only to avoid collateral damage)? Or merits/flaws/backgrounds that would either be obvious to everyone else and/or revealed to the rest by now even if they aren't obvious?

White Shadow lives in the same building as his parents (one of whom is kinfolk). On the lower level of that building is the butcher/deli that he helps his parents run.  So, while passing through the business area is a good way to explain why he's covered in blood, he would prefer to keep the violent Garou life far away from his family.

  Only one of them is kinfolk - does that mean the other is unaware or are they a normal human but in the know?

Jimena's got kinfolk contacts—three of her blood relations (father, brother, aunt) and a couple of Child of Gaia kin whom I haven't named that are associated with UT. I think one is a student and the other holds an administrative position in student housing.

Given Jimena's breeding, her brother Marco would be quite the eligible bachelor, but he has recently married the woman he got pregnant. Jimena's aunt Nadia is the one most clued in about garou affairs.

William doesn't know if they have any awareness of his heritage.  He doesn't even know which side of his family his Garou genes come from.  He assumes it is his father's side, but he's wrong, this mother is actually the kinfolk (how much she knows I'm leaving up to the GM).  He hasn't approached the topic for two reasons:

1) He doesn't want to risk breaking the Litany.
2) He desperately wants to keep his family life and Garou life separate.

  That sounds like an unstable situation. Something's going to happen to blow his secret sooner or later, and the Curse would make it difficult even to be around his non-kinfolk parent (what with the amount of Rage he has)?

  We could end up with some hijinks going on in the name of helping to keep the lid on it for the time being, though...

Butcher/deli huh?..... fascinating.... got any leftovers there my dawg?

Hijinks, yeah I’m just loading the GMs gun.

And of course there are leftovers little sister.

  Does he have any siblings (non-Pack) or other close relatives that might become an issue?

No, but as a local he does have a history with other humans in the area.  An ex-best friend and several girlfriends that now despise him.  Which is likely going to be odd experiencing since most of the pack members know him as a super friendly guy.

  Bad enough endings to be enemies or just "whaddaya want, loser?" types?

The later

  How does he cover for his 'outings'? Pack activities aren't always things that let you go home each night, and the family is going to start wondering...

He doesn't.  Like I've mentioned he's a bit older than some of the other pack members at 22 years of age.  He has his own flat, it just happens to be in the same three story building as his parents and their business.  He has a second part time job taking troubled teens or recovering addicts on outdoor adventures, hiking, rafting, ect.  He is constantly in and out at all hours of the day and night, if he's not working he socializing or doing a bit of urban exploring.  They are used to him coming and going.  If he were to disappear for a few days at a time, they wouldn't think twice.

Ummmm... aren't you forgetting about the Curse though? An Ahroun has so much rage that most people will shy away, especially kids and recovering addicts as they lack in willpower.

I’m guessing that’s something new in the new addition (which I don’t have)?

Naw, it's been around for ages. It's p. 262 in W20, fwiw:

And the flip side is also true. Rage is literal rage. Ahroun generally aren't the nicest people to be around.

  P191-192 of Revised, if that's the one you're looking at.

  (I'd strongly recommend getting the W20 book though. The differences aren't big but there are a lot of little ones that can throw you off.)


  Kinfolk aren't immune to the Curse either, so you'll still come across as unsettling/scary/terrifying (depending on Rage) to them, but they generally cope with the effects better since they're aware of the Garou and know (at least to a point) what's going on. Having a pre-existing relationship doesn't hurt either.

  You can mitigate this by burning off your Rage before dealing with human society, but that isn't always an option and certainly isn't foolproof - Rage can start building back up at the most inconvenient times.
This message was last edited by the player at 23:07, Sun 08 Dec 2019.

I think the Curse is checked against permanent rage, not temporary rage?

  I've always seen it played as set against current Rage. Losing the wolf or coming close to it means that you don't have that kill-you-now predator vibe; conversely, a sufficiently frothed-up ragabash will scare people off.

I've seen it the other way around. Else a human or wolf would be chill with a garou one day, and the next be running for the hills. Wouldn't be very consistent.

  True, but your feelings aren't going to be consistent if you're dealing with someone who comes across as normal one day and "Here's Johnny!" stage Jack Torrance the next.

  That's why long-term relations are generally impossible to maintain outside of kinfolk.

  But you can get away with it in the short term when it's important that you be able to briefly pass yourself off among human society as a not-crazy-axe-killer.


  So White Shadow's situation re the part time job is still problematic (because something is going to happen at some point), but if he just wants to visit home for a night without causing the non-kinfolk parent to freak out, that's doable.

Hey all, sorry for the disappearing act; I had a family emergency that basically took me out for the last week and a half.

So now I'm playing catch up. So, I'll do my best...

1) Re: Rage and non-garou. For what it's worth, another set of mechanics are on page 145 of the W20 book:



From my reading, it's not clear if they mean current rage or permanent rage, but I can definitely see an argument for it being current rage based on the context and wording. The way my old TT group played it was you use the higher of the two; you can never be "less of a killer" than your permanent rage, but if your temporary rage was higher, you're just that much more scary.

The trick is to try and keep your willpower higher, which strikes me as something totally in character for a Child of Gaia. And while not strictly connected to this discussion, I'd recommend checking out the Calm Heart merit if you haven't yet. I think it's a perfect merit for a Child of Gaia ahroun.

2) Totem? Did we decide, are we still keeping the points we put into the Totem background to use once we finally form a pack, or not? I currently have 2 points dedicated to Totem, so would like to know if I could use those points elsewhere.

3) Pure Breed & Rage: Certain aspects of garou have a spiritually definable aspect that other garou would generally be able to pick up on. One very specific example is Pure Breed. If you have it, other garou instinctively know it, and will likely react differently to you. Similarly, Rage (as we've seen from the other discussion) is something that can be sensed, and I think garou would be able to suss out the relative "permanent" rage of those around them.

So, I'd like to request that everyone put their Pure Breed and Permanent Rage in their bio lines (like I have) so we can know how to have our characters react towards and with them.

4) Stuff about Valgard everyone would know...

Valgard showed up at the sept/pack recently (maybe within the last 2-5 months) with his father, Stalks-the-Wyrm, a lupus (yep) Fenrir Adren Ahroun. Stalks-the-Wyrm had been a part of the pack in Austin for a couple of years but had abruptly left about 5 years ago to take his recently changed son to Norway for "proper Fenrir training and Rite of Passage". While hard on Valgard, Stalks does serve as a Mentor to him.

His mother does still live in East Austin, but he doesn't ever talk about her, and rarely visits her in order to keep her safe (no backgrounds, merits, or flaws spent).

His massive scar is in fact a scar fetish, with a Surtur spirit bound to it. It allows him to sense strong wyrm taint nearby (and possibly some other things once I finish spending freebie points).

He is not a "speak in riddles" type of theurge; he is actually quite intimidating, being Physically Impressive and uses that to deal with most spirits.

While being a homid, he seems quite comfortable and spends a lot of time in his lupus form. When the lupus go out for hunts, he generally accompanies them, so that might make for some good connection with Ghost.

Valgard sees himself as Fenrir first, theurge second. He looks like an ahroun, and fights as well as most ahroun, favoring claw and fang over weapons.

Jimena's at PB 2 and Rage 4. She's got a handful of devoted, strong-willed RideAustin clients (mostly women).

Pure what? And at my rage 1, I'm actually the one being scared off when people find me in their trash. :p

  Rage 4 (Galliard baseline), Pure Breed 5 (Silver Fang - what did you expect?)

  She also has the Notable Heritage merit, but no present Mentor/Kinfolk/etc - they do technically exist, but are unlikely to appear in the game.



  Rage vs Gnosis is another thing to watch for. It's hard to avoid as a high-Rage homid since they only start with one point of Gnosis and buying more is expensive, but Rage > Gnosis means that you're a (direct) danger to your own pack if (when) you frenzy.



  We *currently* have Salamander as our totem as a subgroup within the oversized pack, but the dots should transfer once we fully 'separate' (and are probably appreciated by the super-pack in the meantime). Or we could stick with it as a sept totem.

Pure Breed of 1

As for rage: There is an Ahroun Gift that allows you to sense how many rage points others have.  So I doubt its something that can be sensed normally.

In reply to White Shadow (msg # 148):

While the gift allows for detecting specific, quantifiable levels of Rage, the text is elsewhere pretty explicit about other creatures (especially humans) picking up on garou Rage unconsciously, and experiencing acute discomfort when that Rage is higher than their willpower.

  We're posting the specifics in this case because we've probably got a good feel for it. For that matter, it'd probably be known how Gnosis-heavy everyone is - it's relevant to so many thing that garou do.

  No surprises here either - Gnosis 6 (Lupus + 1).

I updated my character details with what I was comfortable with.

Okay, I've updated my Bio line now that I've finalized my Freebie expenditures (Pure Breed 1, Rage 4, Gnosis 5). Also, once we form our new pack, I have 2 points in Totem to contribute.

One other thing I forget to mention; Valgard basically has no life outside the sept/pack. He doesn't hold down a job, have an apartment, or anything like that. He is 100% garou and all about fighting the wyrm, and getting drunk when the need arises...

  Ghost is likewise on full-time duty as a Garou.

  If another pack member needs assistance with their human doings... well, she'll entertain reasonable requests, but she's also aware of her limits there.

"Hey Ghost, I need you to cover a fare for me. Drive this car down to 6th street and look for the person in the picture. You can borrow my phone..."

Woo. I don't know about you guys, but work is kicking my butt this month.
Okay, I'm planning to drop you guys into the action as the pack seniors put you guys on what they expect to be a milk run following a hazmat truck to its dumping ground, seeing what's what, and reporting back.
Sound good to everybody? Everybody ready? Anybody have any considerations to bring up before we start? (Have I forgotten to answer any outstanding questions that still need an answer?)
And personally, I like using Current Rage to determine social issues unless the book says otherwise. It's more volatile, and that feels like rage to me.

On a slight tangent, I always thought Stephanie Meyer did a good job capturing the chaotic emotions of the shapeshifters in her Twilight books. They're vastly different than WtA Garou, of course, but the writer's skill at capturing teenage angst translated well into portraying the helter-skelter rollercoaster of werewolf emotions.

  Other than the question of Totem powers, the only thing that comes immediately to mind is which version of Rides we're getting!


  what they expect to be a milk run

  And we know how those always turn out...

  Here's another relevant question, though more to the other PCs: who has what in the way of Resources?

I got some empty bottles and tin cans, a piece of rope and a pack of beef jerky (open, partially eaten).

Resources 1!

"I have a crummy apartment that eats 50-60% of my income (yay Austin!) and a six-year old Nissan that my brother keeps running. And if I don't abuse it too much I can get day-old conchas at my uncle's bakery. Sometimes a cake somebody didn't pick up that was already custom decorated.

  Ghost also has Resources 1, albeit from a stipend rather than from holding down a human job. She doesn't routinely need it as a lupus, but it's there to cover 'incidental expenses'. Which, in all likelihood, translates to 'the pack is in a jam'. ;)

Resources 2

Resources 1. And much like Ghost, it's more of a stipend than anything else.

In reply to Ghost-of-Silver (msg # 156):

I am going to be moving forward with the Homid Uktena Ahroun.

The basics regarding the sept's Totem Powers:

• You can communicate with your packmates telepathically, even over great distances.
• The totem can always find pack members.
• Standard totem powers: gain Stealth 2, the Gift Blissful Ignorance, and can survive without breathing for one scene, but only once per story. (i.e., not every day) You guys are considered a pack to yourselves when determining how many people get to use a power at one time.

  And thus all was silent...

  Always a danger when you've got a group of telepaths, I suppose!
This message was last edited by the player at 08:42, Sat 14 Dec 2019.

'Tis a busy time of year...

  I hereby claim the color aqua for Ghost's speech!


  I'm also writing on the assumption that Ghost is the pack alpha (zedakh) at this point per the earlier talk about it - and the fact that this would be a really awkward spot to realize that the pack never worked out who is in charge. :P
This message was last edited by the player at 06:42, Sun 15 Dec 2019.

I AM THE PURPLE SCOURGE!

..of trashcans and leftovers.

*Glares at Fahrenheit*

  We should probably settle on a standard format for telepathy vs speech. I'm currently using the italicized -- -- quotes for it.

I'm not sure BS would use telepathy here. It draws from the spirits, maybe even has one pass literally on the messages, rather then going at it Xavier style. As a metis she is super-respectful of the spirits and believes in a 'don't bother them unless it's important' mentality. So for times when the pack is out of verbal reach it's totally fine, but here, with no enemies nearby, she feels free to use her own tongue.

Plus it's weird, y'know, voices in your head? :p

  Voices in your head? Ghost doesn't see anything strange about that!

  But it's our pack totem mystically linking us just like it does with everything else, so it shouldn't be any more of a burden than having to deal with the lot of us generally is. Although now that I say it...

  Our handler was tele-speaking though, so Ghost carried on the pattern (albeit only to the pack members present).
This message was last edited by the player at 13:39, Sun 15 Dec 2019.

  There's got to be more than three of us on site...

Exam week. I'd say something like "tell my students to stop turning in work," but I kinda want them to graduate... I'm also functionally read-only at work. I'll try to get something up tonight (U.S. time).

  What kind of fencing/gate are we dealing with? Since it isn't clear from the post, I'm mainly wondering whether it's something we could easily slip through or would have to climb (or pull up/dig under), and how much trouble that would be.

  Also, do we have anything plausibly reflective to use to cross into the penumbra and follow that way? (W20 does require a reflective surface, IIRC.)

In reply to Ghost-of-Silver (msg # 175):

Aha, yes. The fencing. It's typical Texan ranch fencing: Two lines of minimalist barbed wire held up by steel posts. Just enough to keep cattle in. You don't see nor hear any cameras, but you can definitely smell something plastic in the area. Best to assume they're there.

  Okay, so the general idea is to slip under the fence at least a little ways clear of the gate/road area and tail the thing from there. I'm guessing that the space inside the ranch is mostly flat and open, but if there *is* any usable cover, we'll take advantage of that as best we can.

  If the ranch is the final destination then we don't have to worry too much about the truck driving off so we can keep some distance, and even if it DOES drive right though, then the ranch itself is still implicated and worth having a look at.

  Yea/Nay?

  Also, if anyone has gifts/fetishes that would help with this, please speak up!

Just because there is ranch style fencing doesn't mean there is a ranch.  Before the mission started were we given any time at all to research the area?  Do we know what areas are around the cemetery, specifically the area the truck entered?

The only fetish I have are a pair of mirrored shades which make passing into the Umbra easier.  Not sure if we want to go that route if there is a cemetery and toxic waste being disposed nearby.  Unless, we do a quick in and out to avoid cameras.

  Just to avoid the fence/cameras (and any attached hazards), yes. It should be relatively clear unless they're being really bold and dumping/burying stuff in plain view at the fence line.

  Even if we don't do that, it good to know that we have a portable (and relatively inconspicuous) method of slipping across in case we need it later.


  Looking back, it was called a ranch in a PM to me, but you're right that it isn't described that way in any public post. Given the ranch fencing, it probably is or was one, though there might not be much ranching going on there right now...

In reply to Ghost-of-Silver & White Shadow:

Unfortunately, Jennifer kind of rounded you guys up and dragged you out here without really telling you anything about what she was getting you into. That just seems to be her style. From what the elders told you beforehand, you know you're here to investigate a truck that's supposedly dumping chemicals, and that they don't expect you to engage but only to report back what you see.

Happy Christmas, if you're so inclined! I hope the season is treating all of you well. :)
In honour of the holiday, you get two dots in Backgrounds from one or two of the following choices:

• Allies
• Contacts
• Fetish
• Alternately, Favor from the Merits list

You can split the points between two options or take them both in one, as you like.

(BTW, does it seem outrageous to anybody else that for a character that lives half hir life as a wolf, of all creatures, Anosmia is a flaw that's only worth 1 point, while Blindness gives you a whopping 6 points? I'm not sure the game designers really thought that one through...)

Blindness does rule out combat almost completely though and instantly makes you a burden on the tribe, so I guess they were coming from that angle.

  The point cost of some of those may have originally been set in other WoD systems (Vampire/Mage/etc) where the relative value would be different.

  Either way, White Wolf's developers made it clear over and over that they didn't really care about minor details like balance and thought that deliberately badly-written rules were a great design innovation. The Onyx Path/20th Anniversary versions are a cleanup/consolidation, not a complete overhaul, so I don't expect too much on that front.

  **

  The general IC plan for the pack was to shadow the truck well to one side of the road - sound/smell ought to be enough to gauge where it is even without Big Sister providing telepathic GPS - using the trees as cover. With all of the layers of security around the place, I'm not sure that the trees themselves are safe, but the alternative of openly moving along the road sounds like an increasingly terrible idea.
This message was last edited by the player at 21:56, Wed 25 Dec 2019.

Happy new year, everybody!
This week is a little rough for me, so I probably won't be able to get a post in until next week. Hope everyone's year is starting off on a good foot.

Okay, thanks for being patient, everybody. Woo. New years, amiright? :)

*Poor Big sister has been hanging under the truck for weeks*

In reply to Big Sister (msg # 186):

ROFL! OMG--she's *definitely* got cramps in her hands and legs by this point. ;)

The way it was described the truck is entering an underground facility, correct? It was stated the door was in a cliff side. So there is no wall to climb.  If this is the case are we able to get to the door fast enough to enter before it closes or has it closed already?

The rest of us are also quite a ways off from the truck--I'm not sure plausible it would be to catch up to it even if we decided not to care about the surveillance cameras.

  Two of the three ways Ghost is thinking of work with the truck - when it's coming back out.

  Either wait until it opens again to let the truck leave, and slip in behind it before the door closes, or ambush it further up the road (out of sight of the eyes) and 'acquire' whatever methods are needed.

  The third way is by force. Which could also involve the truck if we don't care about being stealthy anymore...

In reply to Ghost-of-Silver (msg # 190):

It's a slooooow moving door. You've got plenty of time to slip inside if you want to. Or you can wait. Either way would work fine.

  Okay, that changes things considerably - I think we were all under the impression that Big Sister would get cut off and the rest of us struck outside when the truck went in. So we might need to redo a few posts...

In reply to Ghost-of-Silver (msg # 192):

I dunno. The initial worry was totally valid, and thought communication is super fast. I have no problem with carrying on as-is.

  It feels like we've lost people in the last week - not many posting, anyway!

Poor Big Sister, abandoned just as the big bad noticed her. So mean. So sad.

I'm still here, just trying to figure out what to post given the fairly dramatic shift in situation. I'll try and have something up this evening.

  My impression was that both the tunnel and the room are pretty much open with nowhere to hide (other than under the truck...) and no obvious cameras or defense systems (though hidden ones are certainly possible).

  So we're pretty much visible as we get to the bottom of the tunnel and had better be ready for it.

  Would we be able to bypass the camera by keeping to one side and shifting once we're out of its view of the door area, or does it cover pretty much the whole length down?

  So, as Ghost sees it, we have a few issues:

  Getting the door open from the inside - I suspect that this will require using a similar control code rather than just pushing a button - although being a garage interior, there might be an emergency open? How strong does the thing look if we have to get smashy?

  It probably isn't possible to block/jam the thing without setting off all kinds of trouble right there.


  If we can all get out without being detected, that's ideal, but Mr. Nose probably means that it isn't happening. Taking out the place would be nice, but it really depends on how prepared it is for an attack - if it's a bunch of ordinary, know-nothing humans and one disguised Spiral then we're in reasonable shape because the delirium would scatter most of them as soon as someone pops crinos, but that's an optimistic interpretation of the scenario.


  If the truck conveniently 'malfunctions' in a way that causes a great big mess, though...

Sorry, guys, this past week has been brutal on my schedule and I'm not gonna get to make a post today. I do love what you guys are doing, though! I'll try to get a post up tomorrow or Friday.

I imagine the humans will open the door for us once they are struck by the delirium, in a desperate attempt to escape.

In reply to White Shadow (msg # 201):

lol You know, that could work...

Is there something to throw at the camera or a way to parkour my way up to swat it hard enough to damage it?

  This is definitely the sort of place where a Glass Walker would come in handy...

  Given that Big Sister has been seen, though, we're not going to stay undercover for much longer. Just waiting on the results of her 'creative destruction'.

In reply to Ghost-of-Silver (msg # 204):

Sorry, yes. Feel free to screw with the camera as you see fit.

I'm looking for work IRL at the moment, so my schedule has been sheer folly for the past month. I'm gonna try to restore some semblance of order for the sake of my sanity, though, so I hope to post a bit more regularly (fingers crossed). I appreciate you guys being so patient with me in the meantime. :)

  Big Sister: those crystal spiders are shiny, right? So maybe they're reflective enough? ;)  If you didn't lose your mirror then up the tunnel and through the looking glass (again) seems like the least bad option.

  Meanwhile, in the physical tunnel, and in absence of any psychic screaming from Big Sister...

  Poke. Is it down to just Big Sister and Ghost?

....again?

In reply to Big Sister (msg # 208):

Did you still have the mirror shard? You could (perhaps should) escape through that.
The spiders ... lol. Yeah, they are reflective. lol. Just don't fail the check, right? :-J
Other than that, I'd find the restrooms. Even a Spiral Dancer would be too afraid to make people work without giving them mirrors in bathrooms. That sounds like an OSHA/quality-of-life issue.

As for everybody else, they did log in on Tuesday. Maybe give them a few days? It was Valentine's Day this week. :)

I mean, what does the Umbra look like? Is there a tunnel leading up to the surface?

((Still here!))

This message was deleted by the player at 15:12, Mon 17 Feb 2020.

In reply to White Shadow (msg # 212):

Wrong thread. ^^

  Since White Shadow was wondering, and we have the whole telepathic link thing going (as well as some familiarity): Ghost's first priority is to deal with the humans who ran up the ramp (and who clearly know what they're involved with). Second - and possibly related via keycards or the like - is to make sure they secure a way out and that Big Sister is safe.

  Once those things are seen to, step three is to do as much damage to the place as possible without getting any pack members killed. Killing the Dancer would definitely be part of that.

  She puts 'secure an exit' ahead of 'kill the wyrm' because we still don't know just how big the place is or how heavy its defenses are - there could be a lot more to it than one room, and if all that stuff goes *kaboom* due to Big Sister's stunt then we  really don't want to be inside at the time!

  So coming back later with a larger force is acceptable if there's too much to deal with on our own. No Light Brigade stuff here.

Is it safe to assume the door is now fully shut behind us?  Is there an obvious way to open it from the inside (ex. key card pad, emergency open button).  The humans were running towards it so I assume there must be some way to open it.

  They probably have something, although I suppose that even if they don't, the tunnel up might seem like the best available shelter from an exploding truck.


  Should we go into combat rounds right now, or do the initial humans get narrative treatment and it's what comes down below that's the issue?

Dang nab it!
This message was last edited by the player at 19:24, Sun 23 Feb 2020.

(Psst. Wrong thread again!)

Also: are we in combat rounds? Or just a vague approximation until the enemies are more than scenery for garou?

In reply to Jimena (msg # 218):

Uh, hm. Yes, but...
I dont worry about initiative unless it is important for some reason. (*$#^&@ apostrophe key on this laptop is broken.) If you want to take more than one action during your post, declare and apply multiple actions per standard rules. Otherwise, you post and I will post a reaction from the NPCs. Just try not to steal all the limelight from other players. :)

I singlehandedly slay all the humans and gut the Black Spiral!

Do I win?

;)

In reply to Jimena (msg # 220):

lol :-b Sure thing. Make the rolls. :-b

I find waiting for your turn in play-by-post stinks, particularly if you have a slow GM. :-J I try to avoid it whenever possible.

  C'mon, everyone! Ghost's human-bowling just made an opening to let you get at the gunmen without eating silver!

In reply to Ghost-of-Silver (msg # 222):

Ghost-of-Silver's maneuver worked as advertised. Feel free to capitalize on it and add description as needed. :)

Sorry I've been slow; dealing with work stuff and a cascade of parental responsibilities. Hopefully I'll be able to pick the pace back up from here.

I'd also dig it, if we're rolling without initiative, if we could get a clear "new round" marker of some sort when one starts.

  Edit: Everyone except for Valgard has now acted in this round, I think? So new round once he posts.
This message was last edited by the player at 03:59, Tue 03 Mar 2020.

  ...did we lose both Valgard and the GM?

♪ If you leave me now you'll take away the biggest part of me ♫
♪ No baby please don't go ♫
♪ And if you leave me now you'll take away the very heart of me ♫
♪ No baby please don't go, no I just want you to stay ♫

For those still here, the Werewolf 20th anniversery pdf is free only today on drivethrurpg.

https://www.drivethrurpg.com/p...-Anniversary-Edition

Sent myself an email reminder and still missed it&#128553;

Hi, all.
So, explanation. I got into a professional 3-month Boot Camp program kind of at the last minute at the beginning of March that basically took 80 hours a week--lol. After that, I spent a month and a half publishing a couple of short stories and a novella and an RPG book.
Long and short? I've been so busy I haven't even had time to log in until my email reminded me about the site this week.
So... Hope all you guys are doing well and winning at life!

I'm still very busy right now, so I don't have a lot of time for RPOL. I also don't know how many of you guys remain invested in this game after six-odd months. I guess I'm polling for player interest.
What do you guys think? I can turn over ownership of the game, if anyone else has more time. I may be able to keep running it on a slow schedule, (once a week or so?) depending on how my other games go. I won't know until I get replies.

So. Missed you guys? Hope COVID didn't get you? Blessings and good health and all that jazz?

Thanks,
Jonathan

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6SCBW4xS54k

In reply to Big Sister (msg # 231):

ROFL :-b
Well, it's good to see that the 2020 apocalypse hasn't stolen your rapier wit, at least.

I'm still here, and while I prefer a fast pace, slow is still better than frozen.

In reply to Ghost-of-Silver (msg # 233):

Tell me about it. If I could find a job that paid me for posting on RPOL, I'd be set for life, buddy. lol :)

Ey Ghost. How's that other game going? You tried to recruit me for something, but it had something I didn't like as far as I can remember?

I don't actually remember it now, which means that either I ended up not in it, or it didn't last long enough to stick with me.

The distressingly short lifespan of RPOL games seems to be much, much worse with the WoD systems.

Thankfully there's not to many WoD games to begin with, so we're not disappointed too often, eh? ;)

I'm still around, but kinda full up on games at the moment and school's starting up again.

I would say that I'd liike to get through a complete story with this character sometime this decade...

...but the first time I said that was in the 00s.

Yeah. I agree with all the above sentiments.
So... should we stick a pin in this game and come back to it in a few months when--you know--we're all magically less busy? (Because life definitely works that way, in my experience...)?
I mean, like I said, I'm willing to transfer ownership or appoint a temporary GM if it'd help, but it sounds like I'm not the only one facing scheduling issues right now.

Doing some housekeeping, so I'm thinking it's time to delete this game. If anybody has anything to say, do it now!

SOMEBODY FIND ME A WEREWOLF GAAAAAAAME!

In reply to Big Sister (msg # 242):

Aw! :(
I mean, I can try to start this back up if it's gonna make you cry. lol
I'm kinda in the middle of going through an (amenable but still complicated) divorce, so I have MORE time now than I did before. But I want to spend it on games in which people are actually interested. Make sense?
So... I mean, I'm not exactly a Werewolf Storytelling pro, but I'm willing to put in the work if there's interest. Yeah?

I'd be willing to resume if we still have enough people to do it. I have no recollection of the story by now, but at 80 posts it shouldn't take too long to catch up.

In reply to Ghost-of-Silver (msg # 244):

I think we'd probably do better to shift into a new storyline based on where everyone wanted to go with it, but that wouldn't be difficult. Like you said, there wasn't a whole lot of backstory to get in the way.

Don't feel pressured to start a game on my behalf ST, that's a sure way for another game to strand in no time.

Me and Ghost did pm and mentioned how WoD games on rpol seem cursed to fail, we've more or less jumped on the same few games that popped up over the years (and recognize our recurring characters) and each and every one just burns out quickly.

I joined just as things died, but I am still here and still like werewolf.

I'm also still around; I'd be up for a reboot, but am not jonesing particularly hard for new games right now.

I did a quick look over the old one, and I remember it now. It looks like it could be more or less picked up where it was, but if you don't want to do that then it's a perfectly good background for a successful-mission handwave and the pack is now a little bit later and doing... whatever new thing.

In reply to Everybody:

Aw. It makes me happy that so many of us are still around and active on here. I love getting to play with good gamers. :)
Okay. It'll take me about a week to sort out my notes and refamiliarize with the rulebooks, but we can go ahead and start about what direction we want to take the story. And holy crap. Scanning over my notes, I'd forgotten how much pack politics I'd had planned for this story.

Basically, as written, the main pack's Alpha has a powerful combination of strength and diplomacy that holds together a truce between the werewolves and other supernatural factions in the area so they can focus on... like, Black Spiral Dancers and fomori and stuff. However, there are many members of the pack that don't like being chummy with... oh, say vampires, for example, and they'd rather take the pack (and its affiliates) in a more belligerent direction. So in the original story, the main pack's Alpha would be assassinated and it would be up to you guys to navigate your own pack's relations through a shifting quagmire of alliances.
Suuuuper heavy. Kinda ambitious, too, but with lots of space in the sandbox for you guys to deal with the aspects of the game that you wanted--plenty of opportunities for action, loads of intrigue going around, politics between formerly allied packs, interspecies relations to be explored. Tons of stuff.

So if that sounds interesting to you guys, I would be happy to go in that direction. Otherwise, we can pivot and explore something else. The good thing about being your own pack affiliated with a larger group is that you can do your own thing without having to do everything yourselves, so you have a lot of freedom in what kind of gameplay you'd like to pursue.

Votes? Brainstorming? Discussion? Engage! lol

I'm still here too!

And personally I love the idea you threw out. Werewolf games so rarely spend time on sept politics which I've always felt was a really interesting part of the game.

A related question: how large is the sept? The impression that I've had is that the books suppose that most septs are about a dozen strong at most; only really major caerns get a larger (permanent) population, and even that might not be much higher.

Most games seem to treat the typical sept as being dozens strong, though.

I like intrigue and politics, mingled in with the Garou culture. So I'm all for your idea ST.

In reply to Valgard (msg # 251), Ghost-of-Silver (msg # 252), & Big Sister (msg # 253):

Slightly embarrassed and pleased by the votes of confidence. Thanks! :) lol

And to answer your question, Ghost-of-Silver, I agree that many septs in the book appear to be smallish. Despite Texas' reputation for rugged individualism, though, Austin in particular tends to be very collaborative in culture, so it made sense to me that a lot of the septs that in other places might be allied without merging would choose to come together here, especially under a powerful Alpha. However, where in smaller septs you'd see separate groups with their own ideologies pursuing different goals, in this collective you have a number of differing and sometimes opposed factions within the same sept, and that's making things very volatile. The splinter groups the sept is seeding is one way they're trying to deal with the issue, but it's not going to be enough. When the Alpha dies and the group has to face the divisions that already exist within it, it's going to make things extremely tense.
And that's a spectacular backdrop for some great drama.

Or at least, that was what I was thinking... lol ;)

So we'd be part of a small (probably 2-4 pack) sept that's part of a... regional federation, I guess you could say, and THAT is what's having the political crisis - with appropriate domino effects on our own sept. Okay, I can see that working.

Ping.
Just wanted to let you guys know, I haven't forgotten about you. RL is being a bit of a bitch right now, so I'm moving slowly. I had a couple job interviews and am hoping things stabilize a bit in the next couple weeks, so I should have more time either late this month or early next.
Fingers crossed.
Hope life is being a little nicer to you all.

Best wishes,
Jonathan

I'm at home with a burnout, so not great, but definitely in the mood for some distraction! :D

Good luck with the job hunt!