I certainly don't want to step on the end of our current epic, but I am starting to daydream about what might come next, so I wanted to open up a space for you all to have input into that as well. Those of you interested in beginning another campaign together, I mean - at least a few of you expressed interest in this.

My personal inclination would be to do something a littler lighter in tone and heavier on magic - more in the "high fantasy" than "dark fantasy" register. Would definitely still want the world to be a homebrew. I don't like to be beholden to existing lore/canon. Maybe something more urban: my original vision for this game was that it would be more built around Lawton's Glen.

Anyway, totally optional and no rush, but this is a place if you have any thoughts/wishes/desires for the future or any feedback on this game you'd like to see incorporated in the next. You're also welcome to PM me if you'd prefer to share privately.

Yes. Absolutely would be game.

I've been waiting for this discussion! I'm game for whatever comes next but a more urban/lighter or more magical fantasy sounds awesome. Honestly I'm not the depressed self-loathing person I was when I first made Cora and so nice as she is it's time for me to indulge in more fun concepts

Definitely interested!  I haven't given it much thought up until now, but as luck would have it I have a 4 hour solo car drive ahead of me! So the timing for this discussion is perfect for me.

I'd love to play an urban high fantasy game with a lighter tone with this group :D  I reckon I'd play some kind of class with spell slots this time around, just to lean into the theme!  Could we start at level 3+?  Just to have a head start toward being magical and stuff :)

Also, if there's any way we can help with worldbuilding or otherwise with getting it ready to go then I'm down to contribute, if that would help.

Yes! I don't have a strong preference for where exactly we start, but I guess my inclination would still be on the lower side (3?) with rapid advancement through the first few levels rather than just starting right out at 7 or something. But happy to hear what others thing about this.



I know we ended up not using as much of what you put together about the goliaths, but I thought the general model where I provide the outlines of the world and then collaborate to fill in the details of specific places/societies with the people whose characters are from there worked pretty well. If there are specific races/classes/concepts/whatever anyone is interested in, you can give the heads up here so we can make sure there's a place for them.

I would be honoured to play in another game with this crew, regardless of the specific setting!

Something urban-based and with a lighter tone would be fine with me.  There's plenty of 5e classes (and class combinations) I have not played, so I'm sure I can be flexible in the choice of role to fill.  Druid (here) and monk (in a tabletop game) are my only 5e experiences, so the field is wide open!

As the one who suggested it, I'll agree that level 3 is good for me as a starting level ;P  Would like to hear everyone else's thoughts, though!  Level 3 is a sweet spot where many classes get core class-identity abilities and start feeling capable of doing the cool stuff you envision for them, but you're still not super-powered yet.


Actually I feel happy with the amount of Goliath stuff we got to in this game :)  I didn't write that much lore, but it still felt integrated with the setting and gave me some stuff to reference through RP, and we of course got that fun scene with mom :D  I'll probably take a similar approach this time around, writing just enough to understand the character and their story and then expand when/as needed.  If we want to use more of whatever it is then I'll be glad to do my part to build upon that!

Have an established group of players gives us a neat opportunity to work together on making our party and figuring out how we know each other and such!  I enjoy having an established rapport between party members, and I think those efforts we made here gave this game a lot of heart :)

Feels early to decide on characters, but my initial thoughts are a tiefling support caster of some kind, maybe a Bard or Cleric.  I haven't played a Tiefling in a good while, so that should be fun :)

I would love to play Cyre 1313 from Van Richten’s guide to Ravenloft if you’d ever consider a foray into fantasy horror. I feel like it would pair well with a steampunk format.

I prefer starting at lower levels just to learn my character from the get go (before it gets too complicated). With that said, if it means playing with this group, I'll gladly start at whatever level and play whatever role including (but not limited to):
   Torch bearer
   Waterboy
   Suspicious chest opener
   Guy who carries all the heavy stuff to town
   Bait for traps

I'm currently working on a master list of classes and races I've never played, it's mind expanding.

So no ideas what I'd play but it'll be fun for sure

Oooh. I will admit, trains often pop into my head when I let my imagination drift on this subject. I'm reluctant to commit to a specific train, both because I don't want to be beholden to its lore and because I'd like its secrets (if any!) to be a surprise to you all. But yes, trains are interesting....

One idea: I made a goblin paladin for another game but it never really got off the ground. With this group I feel like there would be a good opportunity to make him come to life. I'm not married to the idea, but just one possibility that may fit into a lighter-hearted, urban environment.

Speaking of urban environments, how big a city are we talking (village? town? city? megopolis?)?

In reply to Fergus Glowforge (msg # 13):

Nice! I'm leaning toward big, especially if it's going to be the focus of the campaign.

So, is this high enough fantasy for it to be a flying city??? :D

Ooo, Eberron is such a cool setting!  I've never gotten a chance to play in it much yet, and everyone my tabletop group but me hates it for no good reason ;(  I really like the idea of a technological society based on magical artifice, with airships, lightning trains, magical streetlamps, constructs everywhere, etc.  Eberron has a lot of other cool stuff too (ahem, halfling dinosaur-riders), but even if you want to make your own high fantasy world lore you could just steal the stuff you like and use it how you like :D

Fergus: I love the idea of a goblin paladin!

Sidenote: Anyone who wants to discuss Eberron, I don't think I'll ever get tired of talking about it. I don't know if an established setting will work for our DM, absent something contained like Cyre 1313. As a giant Eberron fan though I've plenty of ideas for games if Opalia ever needs a DM (when I'm healthy again)

I think a flying city might be a bit much depending on the context, but a more urban game with guilds and politics and intrigue wouldn't be amiss to me.

I'm travelling, so just making some quick posts. I'd love to play anything in this group, and would love exploring a character more of talker. I'm happy with just about any setting. With that said, urban sounds awesome!

I also love the idea of a goblin paladin! And I'm loving everything I'm hearing about Eberron. It's really only the lore I find intimidating. So I'm inclined to do as Opalia suggested and borrow a bunch of things but wrap them in different lore. If there are elements you're particularly interested in (flying cities, say, or playing a warforged), then please let me know! It's not binding, you can always change your mind about playing a warforged, but I'll be sure to make room for them just in case.

Elements that interest me:

Airships and Trains
Heists, Subterfuge, and Skullduggery
Intrigue and Spycraft
Cinematic Action
Surveillance Technology
Petty, feuding rich people

At the risk of being a stick in the mud I'll take this time to argue Eberron's themes and style is much more than just magepunk and trains. Feel free to ignore, I'm simply trying to help but identifying the other things which a world borrowing from Eberron might need

-The setting is much less about what you are than where you're from. The average person doesn't care that you are a non-human (so long as you're not a goblin, warforged, shifter or changeling), they care that you're from the country they fought against in the war. Dwarves and elves, orcs and gnomes all live together fruitfully (if convinced their race is generally the best one). Half-orcs and half-elves, rather than be outsiders to their parent races, are key and important parts of their cultures. The Khorovar are a race of people who only came about because the elves and humans came to Khorvaire, and the half-orcs are a symbol of the cooperation and unity that the orcs and humans of the Shadow Marches have achieved (despite constant feuds that'd make a Scotsman blush)

-Good is weak, evil is fractured. The great heroes of the world are gone, the powers that can affect things are either locked in one place (The Keeper of the Silver Flame can't leave the city of Flamekeep without losing her cleric levels until she returns, the great druid Oalian is an immobile pine tree) or are not benevolent (though fighting for the good of the world, the dragons of the Chamber start wars, assassinate people and often let evil win in the short term, and are not above simply killing everyone involved and starting over). Arrayed against them are a half-dozen evil factions of note (and many smaller ones besides) who are at cross purposes to each other. The Lords of Dust want an apocalypse (but work against each other almost as much as the Chamber works against them all, so only their own demon overlord may rise), the Dreaming Dark wants peace and dominance in order to escape oblivion, the daelkyr simply do not care that their art warps the very nature of those they touch, and the more mortal groups like the Aurum or Emerald Claw are interested in material gains, money and martial victory, while their leaders could be controlled by the big guys above.

-There are no absolutes (except immortals). Immortal creatures play out long games and stories among themselves, the planes and the fiends act according to their nature. But everything else CAN be good, evil, lawful or chaotic as its personality suggests. Clerics of the Silver Flame can be corrupt, or zealous, or they can be honest self-reflective people. A monster can believe in honour in battle, in dignity of its foes.

-The world needs heroes. You, the party, are the important people. There is no grand detailed timeline saying this happened then this happened, what serves your story is what happened. You will have the power to change the world, you will have the power to overturn wrongs and forge a brighter path.

Side note but also something I love is that every non-human race is obsessed with history. The dwarves don't care about facts, they care about what makes a good story. The elves are determined that any elf who dies be remembered in some way (different factions have different practices), the gnomes are fastidious record keepers to the point that they spread organized religion, science and trade long before humans. The halflings and the shifters each have a powerful and lively oral history, the orcs believe in the tradition of the old ways and in doing whatever you do with all your passion. The goblins literally once ruled the continent and their works built the foundations of the modern cities. The changelings pass down jobs and titles alongside the faces of those people, the town healer in a changeling village will look like the same person for decades even though generations have been this one role.

I have zero experience with Eberron, but I'd be willing to learn.  And being an old school gamer, I'll need to warm up to a goblin paladin.  I mean, goblins are evil humanoids, right?  But for Fergus, I can mend my ways  :D

Our DM's elements all sound good to me...maybe we can work in a little Locke Lamora and the Gentlemen Bastards angle for our group.

That's what makes a goblin paladin so lovely honestly. The powers that empower paladins don't care, in a fashion

Okay, for Fergus I can stomach a goblin paladin character.  But you're never going to get me to agree that goblins are 'lovely'.  Eww!

LOL

Honestly one of my problems is that so many of my concepts are "is also a cook" which isn't gonna be treading new ground after Cora. But for fun's sake, my two from my master list:

-Artificer who uses cook's utensils, literally spellcasting with cast iron pan and spice
-Celestial or Genie Warlock halfling who fell through a portal into the Plane of Fire, ending up working at a planar tavern first bussing, then serving, chopping and washing and eventually cooking and tending bar. When they said they'd learned it all? Their patron cast them back out into the material plane with new warlock powers

I'm honored, Sikuaq! I'm thinking he will be shunned by the majority of his own order because, let's face it, he's a goblin. But in spite of that (and perhaps oblivious to it), he perseveres.

Now I know Sikuaq was only kidding, but I don't want to ruin the game for anyone else by going too far off the rails. I won't be upset if we decide to limit races to the more classic ones (say PH only or whatever). The mismatch of goblin and paladin could also be realized with something like a street urchin halfling turned paladin or even a short, smelly human with buck teeth turned paladin. As long as it's appalling to the higher ups in the order, it will work!

Eberron: I played one game there and it was kind of a dud, but I'd be willing to try again. I suspect with the creative powers contained in this group, we will be in a much better place. Interested to see how we can collectively world build there.

Cora, thanks for that rundown on Eberron, that's all neat.  I, and probably a lot of players, get fixated on a magical tech stuff and end up sleeping on the really interesting cultural and thematic things that also set it apart from other D&D settings.


Omg Sik, the Locke Lamora series is one of my absolute favorites!  I hope that series gets finished some day.  A close-knit guild of Robin Hood-esque, good-natured criminals running heists and cons against corrupt officials and scumbag aristocrats would be an awesome premise for a game :D


Would love to see Caell playing a more openly charismatic character :)  My Tiefling would also be a talky sort, and if we do the intrigue and skullduggery themes DM listed then I'd be down to join forces as the "faces" for our group to play into that!

Now I don't want my enthusiasm for a new game to take anything away from the upcoming epic conclusion to our adventure in the Northlands, so I am making a new vow:

I'm only posting in this thread if I have a more recent post in the in-game thread!

With that criteria met, I'll admit I've be reading a Wayfinder's Guide to Eberron just to get a better feeling for our potential setting. Are we using the general history in there about who lives where? I know our DM mentioned foregoing a lot of the pre-planned lore in favor of crafting our own thing and I'm totally on board with that, too. If I can help with world building in some way, all the better, but I also respect that too many cooks can spoil the soup.

I guess in short, I'm saying I'm excited about a new adventure, whether straight out of the book or built by the DM, or a collaborative world that we construct together. Just let me know how I can help.

Which aspect of "who lives where" is troubling you Fergus? In terms of official Eberron?

Thanks for asking, Cora. I am just trying to understand the framework upon which to build my goblin paladin's story. In our world, is it true that goblinoids at one time were the dominant species in Khorvaire? Do the Dhakaani and Ghaal’dar tribes exist or will we make our own goblin history (or maybe a little of both)? I'm fine either way. I just don't want to build a backstory assuming one setting and have it not fit well into what our world turns out to be.

Maybe it's too early to be talking about this but the setting and backstory and world building are some of my favorite things, so I get excited about this kind of stuff!


P.S. Hah! I almost forgot my vow and posted here without posting in game first! No worries, though, Fergus had some spell prepping to do in game.

I love the enthusiasm but don't have an answer for that yet, still brainstorming. I think keep the backstory loose for now.

Canon Eberron answer:


I wouldn't necessarily put it like that but yes they once ruled an empire which included everything on the continent bounded by the Eldeen Reaches, Endworld and Ironroot mountain ranges, and excluding parts of the Valenar peninsula, the area between the Howling Peaks and Seawall Mountains, and the Shadow Marches. This is essentially the entire continent.

It's important to remember this is only one part of the setting, but that goblins (especially the little guys) live in pretty much every nation in the central parts of the continent, and hogoblins and bugbears often live to the wilder places but there are many city living ones too.
This message was last edited by the player at 14:33, Sun 07 Aug 2022.

I have come up with a vague, setting-neutral character notion for our future campaign:  a College of Creation Bard with the Charlatan background whose lies become true if she can make everyone believe... and if the lie is audacious enough even reality itself has to believe it :D  Charm Person is convincing the person we really are besties and always have been.  Healing Word is persuading the recipient that they weren't even hurt that bad after all.  The Performance of Creation feature is telling reality that "Yuh-huh I do too have a unicycle!" and poof, there's the unicycle!

I'm amused by the concept, but we'll see if it makes it to the game someday :)

Not a bad concept.

More and more I find myself drawn to "weird" builds. Part of it is I'm trying to push myself to pick classes, races and backgrounds I don't normally think of (I need no help to devise a warlock or fighter with the Urchin/Pirate/Mercenary Veteran background who is a half-elf, half-orc or halfling)

Recently I reworked a kenku spore druid to instead be a half-elf so I wouldn't need to ONLY speak in snips of other peoples' speech. I've got a monk build on mind that uses heavy armour and I've even been toying with what if anything would fit a Plasmoid

Cora and Opalia, those ideas are way-creative!!! And I thought a goblin paladin was stretching the bounds of reality!

I finally posted in game (twice!) so I have given myself permission to post here again*:
Getting back to DM's message, keeping the backstory loose for now is fine for me. Right now I'm thinking the order of paladin's is actually a bit full of itself/pompous (is that too cliche?). Most of the order is appalled by a goblin in their ranks, but one ally guided him far enough that he passed the "test" (or however you get to be a paladin). Or maybe he just followed that ally around all the time (like a self-appointed squire) and learned by doing. When said ally died, he somehow inherited the powers or was seen as true-hearted by whomever their god was and was granted some amount of paladin powers.

Alternatively, maybe he really isn't a paladin, but just thinks he is. Actually, he's a barbarian, going into a rage any time he's reminded that he isn't "a real paladin"... maybe that's a bit too wacky.


*I can post here, but now the in-game and OOCIII threads are getting exciting too as we figure out how in the @#$$ seven players (I guess 10 if you count the druids) are supposed to defeat an advancing army!

Your ideas about a goblin paladin got me thinking, Fergus!  Here are some rambling late night thoughts on different ways you might approach it:

• Consider that a paladin doesn't always have to be a chivalrous knight in shining armor :P  I once played a drug-addicted nihilistic paladin in a grimdark setting who had cursed the gods for the atrocities he'd seen and committed in their name during a war, but he still kept all his paladin powers because he tried to do good for its own sake rather than because of faith.  Kind of an extreme example, but worth considering that a goblin doesn't have to be goody two-shoes.
• A barely-tolerated misfit goblin paladin in a human church is a fun concept, but what about a paladin who's a paragon of goblin culture with an oath to a goblin god?!  I'm curious what that looks like :D  Might be hard to make work with the standard kitten-eating cackling marauder trope goblin, but with a goblin culture that's different but not inherently barbaric/evil (like orcs in this game) that could be interesting!
• Also a paladin doesn't have to explicitly serve a god, they might just get power from their oath itself!  Opalia could actually be a non-religious paladin with pretty much no changes to her character, now that I think on it :P  She already lives by the ideal that 'it is the duty of the mighty to protect' and of course her general 'BE NICE' philosophy is a good fit for a pally!  Maybe the goblin paladin gains power from the pride of a well-crafted trap and the noble art of backstabbing villains, or whatever!

Consider too that a paladin doesn't necessarily choose to be one. There is an external entity possibly, one who grants access to these powers, if only via sponsorship or divine portfolio

A paladin order might grumble, but the abilities are there as proof that despite mortal opinion you are measured and sufficient

Another idea rattling around in my head is that, after a setting where racial tension was so at the fore, maybe we experiment with something where it's a non-issue? I was thinking that would dovetail nicely with Fergus's desire to play a goblin paladin, but maybe not, if the point is specifically to play something off-type?

I'm game for that!

Fine suggestions one and all. It gives me a lot to chew on. You all are better out-of-the-box thinkers than I am. I salute all the creativity.

I have to admit: I do kind of like the idea of the higher ups in some religious order being absolutely appalled by a goblin in their paladin ranks. With that said, it certainly isn't a necessity. As you've already pointed out, there are any number of ways to go about it!

If we are looking for something more light-hearted, then maybe a band of misfits is a good theme.  The goblin paladin plus a handful of other similar misfits, offered up/drawn together to tackle some quest as much to get them out from underfoot in "serious" matters within their home bases as anything else.

Maybe they are put under the command of one non-misfit, who is being punished and now has to lead this rag-tag bunch, much to their displeasure?

Just a thought.  But if we went with it, we could be misfits wanting independence.  We could be independent together! (as long as we have an elven dentist and a reindeer navigator in the party)

At first I thought these were just arbitrary examples and I was trying to think of a punny name for an elven dentist and I came up with Legofloss but then I realized yours was already a reference to an existing pop culture elf.

Yes, I'm exposing my age but it's one of my favorite lines. That and, "Bumbles bounce!" :)

Came across this thread about race in D&D on Twitter today, thought it was interesting and relevant to some things I've been thinking about when plotting the next campaign. Author is Keith Ammann, author of The Monsters Know What They're Doing.

Well said, and I'll refrain from opening my usual can of worms about Eberron, but a lot of work was put into making the numbers of the 3.5 races match the cultures that resulted from their existing in one place.

I still struggle with the idea of race and fantasy race and try to devour every bit of analysis or discussion I can find from people with more stake in it than my curiosity, but I will say that making everyone sanitized and clean and "humans with abilities" felt like the wrong direction to go for me with WotC's response to very real concerns about some fantasy races' origins in The Other

But I like the orc lore of some past settings where they were stopped from being a part of the division of lands to other humanoid races. It's informed how I played Cora, with an eye towards (with the DM's gracious allowance) examining and filling in WHAT an orcish culture would be like, and what it means to be a half-orc. If being a half-orc was just being a green human with tusks it wouldn't feel as engaging to step into Cora's shoes

There's a podcast called Three Black Halflings I listen to somewhat regularly. They do other things as well, but they are good on issues of representation and inclusion. Here's an episode they did on orcs in Tolkien: https://headgum.com/three-blac...ystemic-racism-in-dd

So had myself a little think this morning about what I might want to do for the upcoming campaign. I've been on a bard and paladin push recently (as I have so few ideas for those generally) but that overlaps Fergus and Opalia's ideas and the main thing is to challenge myself.

So not a warlock, not a bard (probably), not a paladin

No leaning on the chef/gourmand feat this time.

Not a half-orc

This morning's idea (working off the "this will be more urban, more talky") was a noblewoman of optimistic and kind character, a spoiled sweet type (or reasonable silk hiding iron type) who wants to do what is right. A rogue (inquisitive), a rogue/fighter (mastermind/battlemaster), those were my thoughts. Then I remembered I keep trying to make everything a warrior and so went back to my well and found a few notes on a sorcerer or cleric (or sorcerer/cleric?) so essentially the idea can work with any class, ugh

Also had an idea for a monk, likely not the nobleborn kind but could see, because NOTHING actually stops a monk wearing armour besides a few class features, so you can totally be a power stunning, warrior spirit type in armour. I was thinking a kid from a farm come up to the big city to sell some livestock gets pulled into something bigger, but could be many sorts of backgrounds

All sounds good Cora, though I realize it's a little scattered just now.  I'm sure it will coalesce for you in time  :)

My only thought about a monk wearing armour is that, well, if you really want a warrior that wears armour there are better classes than Monk to do that with.  The neat thing about monks, for me at least, is that they ARE different from other fighting classes (if a bit squishy) and it seems a shame to hide that under a bunch of steel.

I have no good thoughts for a character right now.  I've wanted to try a paladin/sorcerer, and there are some interesting rogue subclasses, but really I don't have any specific personalities clamouring to get out just yet.  Often I find inspiration once I have a little more structure, both from the game world and from the choices other players have made ahead of me.

So keep up the ideating and let's see what falls out  :)

I do see what you're saying, and to avoid long-winded puffery I'll avoid spelling out where a monk and a fighter or paladin might differ in how they'd interact with armour wearing (suffice to say, short term bursts on attacking, moving or defending vs reliable steady endurance), but I do agree, and I appreciate that you have a certain attachment to tropes and fantasy staples.

The "armoured monk" is on a list with things like the "trash druid" (kenku spore circle druid), the "former deathknight" (reborn paladin), and the "hagspawn folk hero" (hexblood phantom rogue), concepts on a list for characters I have on hand to drop into games, modify the race or something and boom, so it's a stock thing I have on hand and not something like building up from the bottom more "we'll see where it goes" character

I've also been interested in a bare-fisted brawler type, Rune Knight fighter with tavern brawler just wrecking enemies with two hands and a good chair . . . if that idea tickles anyone for playing beside. Harder on the edge likely than my attempts towards optimism (today at least), but wide-eyed farmkid or proper noblewoman COULD fit a jaw-cracking pugilist too . . .
This message was last edited by the player at 23:48, Thu 01 Sept 2022.

Also have an old idea made almost the same time I made Cora. Another warrior type, a halfling "barbarian" "noble", Chenwyse!

A halfling of good birth, Chen (a nickname, her parents say "wyse" doesn't suit her) has always done what she wants, when she wants, wandering around with her three bested of friends (Noble feature Retainers) and getting into trouble. An attempt at a betrothal to a good match sent her running, cadre of friends in tow, and now she has disguised herself as an ordinary halfling (named Chen) and set out for adventure!

However, the priest for her home community laid a curse upon Chen as a last ditch effort to both protect her and guide her back home. The spirits of her departed grandparents linger, lecturing her to settle down and stop this foolishness, and dress for the weather!

Stout halfling ancestral guardian barbarian

Hehe, I suppose guilty as charged.  I deserved that.

Clearly you are a million times better versed in the plethora of race & subclass combinations.  I am barely aware of things beyond the PH, and not even really fluent in that.  I shall try to draw some inspiration from all these personalities you have floating around.  Keep offering up the insights!

Well before you think I'm wagging my finger talking down to an old timer I frequently get called a grognard now because I started in 3rd ed and don't like OneD&D.

You currently play a druid better than I've ever dreamed of playing one so there's still classes I have to learn

Yikes!  If you’re a grognard with that pedigree, what do you call someone at least twice that old?  LOL

Backtracking a little bit to share some random thoughts on the race/species topic:

I'm cool with a setting conceit that racial differences are essentially a non-issue, or at least not a central theme.  There might still be dwarves who dislike elves and elves who think all halflings are thieves, but it doesn't go much beyond character quirks.

However, even in an egalitarian society that accepts all races I can see people still having issue with goblins, IF the standard D&D goblin lore applies.  If goblins are rare in civil society and the predominant goblin disposition/culture is of malicious, cannibalistic murderers then it's understandable that people are concerned seeing a goblin in town!  Same would go for drow, lizardfolk, kobolds, duergar, orcs, changelings, etc. that are similarly 'default evil' in the lore and good specimens are treated as exceptions.  There could be room for both if all such races are already integrated into civil society, with the evil versions existing as hostile factions because they're evil, not because of race.  Therefore, your friendly goblin neighbor has nothing to do with the Bone-Skewer Marauders goblinoid tribe killing people on the other side of the valley :P

With all that said, I think Mr. Amman makes a great point that the factual differences between D&D races/species would impact society, but I also think that taking that into account could easily lead right back to racial tensions :P  However, perhaps our egalitarian fantasy society could celebrate such differences rather than treating them as points of division!  Maybe tieflings are regarded as the best metalworkers because of fire resistance, drow are respected as the best nighttime/underground scouts because of super-darkvision, firbolgs are considered authoritative in gardening and animal husbandry since they can speak to plants and animals, and so on.
This message was last edited by the player at 21:42, Fri 02 Sept 2022.

Thanks for the ideas, everyone. Cora, I meant to say earlier, "cook" strikes me as a broad enough concept that we could find ways to distinguish a new cook character from your current one (by making her a former sous chef on the plane of fire, for instance!), but that's up to you.

While I've got a second, I'll share a few things I wrote down the idea:



None of this set is set in stone, just some preliminary thoughts I'm putting out there for your consideration and feedback.

Awesome!!  I love this setting concept already :D

A decadent old empire being overthrown by a steampunk capitalist rebellion is a rich backdrop with lots of story possibilities!  We could draw real world inspiration from the fall of the Roman Empire, the French Revolution, Industrial Revolution and Labor Movements.  It also reminds me of two particular book series about fantasy worlds in transition to industrialism: The Age of Madness trilogy by Joe Abercrombie, and the Powder Mage trilogy by Brian McLellan.

Some questions and ideas to serve as world-building food for thought:

• Where does the city get food?  Farmland outside the city, factory farming, slaughterhouses, fishing industry?
• Where does the city get water?  Is there a port, rivers, canals, cisterns, aqueducts, dams?
• Where does the city get natural resources?  Mines into the volcano or outside the city, logging, stone quarries, oil-drilling or a fantasy analogue rare+valuable resource?
• What is the form of government?  Lots of possibilities here https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wik..._forms_of_government
• How does the city conduct trade, and what sort of infrastructure comes with it?  Merchant ships, trains, motorized vehicles, AIRSHIPS(!) with the ports, stations, rails and roads to support them?
• Quick ideas for factions and social movements:  Draconic imperialist aristocracy, Worker's rights activists, Anti-industrialist/environmentalist radicals, Trade empires (a la East India Company), Organized crime gangs, Arcane scientists, Religious movements (both modern and old), Barbarians from outside civilized territory
• What other nations, city-states, etc. are out there as enemies, trade partners, technological competitors?

That's quite a lot, sorry!  This just got my head spinning with ideas.  A lot of this is probably beyond the scope of the campaign, but hopefully might spark ideas to develop the setting and culture :)

Love it, this is great stuff to be thinking about. Some of this was blind spots, some I deliberately left vague so there's room for y'all to fit whatever type of character you're interested in. Like, gods could just not be a big part of life (people are pissed at them cuz they feel they were abandoned to the dragons) unless one of you wants to play a character with a divine relationship/power, in which case you can play an outsized role in determining what that looks like.

Well that setting seems ideal and amazing

I have a few lovely ideas, and though said sous-chef was conceived as a warlock, I think a bard, sorcerer, wizard or cleric could work

So guess I have about 3-4 concepts

Thanks for that reassurance, DM :)  I get excited about world-building and I often find that answering practical questions like these can serve as seeds to sprout new ideas!

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe this section speaks to the current thinking about where our PC group will fit into this setting:

So we're the Cinderhorn Crew, a band of misfits and underdogs brought together by a disreputable visionary with big ambitions to go legit and get rich in an equitable way!  I wonder what sorts of interesting characters might be drawn to such a crew...? :D

This hook and the setting info have given me lots of new character ideas for my bard, but I'll need to make them into something sensible before sharing ;P

We'd mentioned pulp/cloak-and-dagger sorts of things, so I wanted to be sure I included a hook for that, but it's not the only option. You know I don't have it in me to create a cut-and-dry "good guys" faction. :-)

Yeah . . . sorcerer perhaps with a little dip in warlock is really coming together for a chef character. And different enough from Cora too!

But I'll also work on a few other ideas to see what ends up being truly inspiring. If anyone wouldn't be too bothered knowing I can write out my concept more

Don't worry, we can have the goblin serve as our moral compass!

Truth be told, thanks to the background info, I'm thinking up some different ideas, too. We'll see what I like best.

That's what this thread is for! My hope is that we'll inspire one another and perhaps some of you will see or seek opportunities to create characters with pre-existing connections to one another.

Well see the Celestial pact warlock worked so well for the idea of a cook who apprenticed under "not!Ashe" but you all will likely understand if playing another pure warlock is not enough of a branch out for me.

The idea struck me that a Draconic Origin Sorcerer might suit. Able to focus on fire magic, generally suits the theme, and couples nicely with [Genie/Fiend/Celestial especially] warlock for a couple levels, get some invocations maybe get up to Book of Shadows (and be the never sleeping cook with Aspect of the Moon)

But what REALLY struck me is I hate the scales of dragon sorcerer as they don't really fit, but then I realized the armour could be fire-elemental brass like an Azer (or hard scale like a salamander) instead, reinforcing the sorcerer from the inside out. And then it all sort of just clicked.

Halfling draconic sorcerer X/celestial warlock 2-3, able to cast a small group of normally cleric spells from celestial warlock, focused on healing and rest (which works nicely with a bard in the party) but instead of Cora's quest for identity and something more, this person's on a quest to take a massive boon of power they got and use it, driven and almost literally possessed by the essence of a "campfire" (see above). Maybe one of their goals is buying a restaurant or inn and trying to put their skills to use.

Type of halfling doesn't matter, likely stout unless the DM would allow reflavouring the Mark of Hospitality subrace as an effect of absorbing all that planar misadventure (bonus to checks with brewing and cooking tools, bonus to persuasion, a few spells known added to sorcerer list)


This message was last edited by the player at 13:53, Sat 10 Sept 2022.

Thanks! I'm always open to reflavoring, and anything with draconic lineage should be a good fit for this setting. Given how vast and totalizing the dragon's rule once was, lots of people of all different races have some draconic ancestor from generations past.

Sorry to be clear, the draconic origin is to model a "fire plane" origin, though I can work on a dragon origin too. Though in that case . . . I have a few dragons that I like which might be a fun homebrew challenge that suits a halfling population

I know nothing is set in stone at this point, but what have we generally committed to at this point in terms of character concepts? Its been difficult to follow the flow of the thread at times as so much has changed. It sounds like we're running with Coglinton, which I love. Has anyone resolved on a character at this point or are people still brainstorming?

I don't get the sense anyone has resolved on much yet, at least not based on what's been posted in this thread. Cora's post just above and Fergus's mention of a goblin paladin are the most specific things I recall seeing.

I have a concept for my tiefling bard that I'm quite happy with, although name and background specifics remain TBD.

The broad strokes:  "I always wanted to be an actress, but swindling's where the coin is..."  She's a resourceful actress who can change personas so easily and convincingly that nobody can be sure if they've ever met the real her.  She's always scheming toward the next big thing and makes use of all manner of clever cons, trickery and plain audacity to work things in favor of her and her friends.  Despite being a self-professed scoundrel, she'll only ply her schemes against those who have it coming and never at the expense of the little people just trying to get by.  She came up from the streets, and so knows what it's like.  Since a young age she's been nurturing 'the Cunning', a sort of sorcery of clever resourcefulness that comes quite in handy for every sort of shenanigans.

Mechanically, she's a Dispater Tiefling of the College of Creation with the Charlatan background.  Her spells will tend toward enchantment, illusion, and general utility.  Also, many of her conventional disguises will include some sort of extravagant hat to hide the horns :)

DM, are we doing a free feat for character creation again?  If so, I will be taking Actor :D

Chiming in on this: I'm considering a character working within law-enforcement (Constable was mentioned in the description). I assume the government and its laws are fairly weak in contrast to the major companies, and suffering under widespread corruption.

The constabulary might find it practically impossible to investigate thief guilds, and government officials, and most might be content to pursue petty crimes (and possibly violent ones). Many constables are surely bribed to look the other way when dealing with guilds and organizations.

My character will be an Elliot Ness in some aspects, but also leaning in on the clichés found in classic detective sleuths like Sherlock Holmes and Hercule Poirot; eccentricity paired with exceptional intelligence.

Staying true to a fantasy setting, where spells can easily solve what would be the strangest mysteries in our historic world, I'm thinking a spellcaster would be appropriate; wizard most likely. A cleric of some aspect of law could also be an option.

I think pairing those abilities with some charisma-based skills, will give them the tools needed to interrogate, extract information by persuasion, or possibly work in disguise, effectively undercover. Perhaps infiltrating some organization?

This character could have some connection with Opalia's concept, being contrasting characters on separate sides of the law.

I love the contrast between Caell's and Opalia's character ideas! That could stir up some good stuff.

As for me, I said I'd like to consider some other character ideas, but right now goblin paladin is still the best idea I have. So I'd say 70% likely that's the way I'll go. Trying to think of how he'll align with Coglinton...

I'm liking these concepts, this is looking good!

I'm also still working on my other concept in case that ends up more enticing, but the cook halfling sorcerer is definitely still there.

What sourcebooks will be allowed?  I'm toying with a Dragonborn concept but I see on the web that they have significantly changed  the racial subtypes as additional supplements have come out.  Is it all fair game or do we need to stick to just one or two supplements?

I'm open to virtually anything. I am inclined to use the more recent versions in cases where they've revised classes/subclasses/races etc just because I trust they had a reason for doing it, but you can draw material from anywhere, including 3rd party/homebrew stuff. The more farflung it is, the more I'd want to discuss it and make sure everyone is comfortable with it, but you're free to suggest it and I'll encourage everyone to be as accommodating as they're comfortable with.

So in the months since working on my sorcerer cook idea, I've had a few other ones peak my interest as well. Really got into the merits of arcane trickster for since, specifically its interactions with swarmkeeper ranger for a ranger/rogue with BEES that lockpick and steal.

Also Divine Soul Sorcerer (possible cleric dip) for the best metamagic heal class in town, which goes nicely with a few ways of approaching that (priestly type who approaches faith more like a paladin (charisma) than a cleric (wisdom)?)

You always have neat character build ideas, Cora!  I can never think of interesting combos like that.

I take the unexciting approach to almost always go single-class, find a subclass that does something neat, then pick a few things I want the character to be able to do and build around those.  Random example: A compulsive climber who is super tough and determined to protect little friends!  Seen that one before somewhere, I think ;)

Thank you! Honestly it came from watching a video on a gloomstalker ranger/rogue multiclass where they recommended assassin for damage, scout for versatility or arcane trickster for broad playability over a whole game

I then though "huh, okay why be gloomstalker then?" and there was an Eberron game recruiting and I didn't get in but it was fun to make a character application for someone from the town policed by bees.

I'm a frustrated forever DM at heart.

So where are we at in terms of the discussion of the next game?

Last confirmed thing I made was a Celestial Warlock/Draconic Sorcerer idea for a cook halfling, might still pursue but I've had nothing BUT time to think on so many more ideas and I want to make sure I'm preparing a good one for this group
This message was last edited by the player at 18:26, Tue 14 Feb 2023.

I hadn't decided on a concept yet. I was waiting to see what else materialized before trying to slot myself in. Given this is a gnome heavy campaign though, I might veer in that direction (or autognome if allowed ;) ).

Since it's a city, shouldn't you be a metro-gnome?

Apropos of nothing, I think I have a bard concept ;)

Remind me, at what level would we being the game?  And at a rough guess, how high will we likely get by the game's end?  In our current game we're 10th level now - would you see it likely being about the same?

I ask so that I can evaluate character subclass choices appropriately - no need to count on 15th or 18th level powers and skills if we're not getting that high, and even abilities gained at 9th or 10th level aren't going to weigh in on the choice much, since they won't get much use.

Currently still looking at a dragonborn concept, though trying to make it work in a rogue skin (against type for dragonborn, I know).

Thanks!

Of all the races, dragonborn grabs me the least. I started in 3rd ed so maybe I just never game them the right chance. I do have a build in my notes called "roleplaying challenge" that is a dragonborn beastmaster ranger hermit with the healer feat, essentially my least favourite stuff to challenge myself to play a character, but otherwise I feel like I need to really think about dragonborn some more.

A rogue dragonborn sounds awesome though. Whether a traditional thief or simply an "awesome by analysis" skillmonkey, it's different from the stodgy mage or imperious knight cliches

I've never played a dragonborn at all, so thought to give it a try.  But the flavour of this game as I see it does not lend itself to an imperious knight, as you put it, even though that is my understanding of the traditional dragonborn path.  So rogue sounded like a challenging choice, plus there is the potential tie-in to the whole "dragons used to run the world" thing, which I'm thinking should add some complications.

I'm glad to see y'all are still enthusiastic about this! I worried my recent delays here might have shaken your confidence in me. I don't want to dump cold water on other kinds of brainstorming, but selfishly, I'm most interested in hearing the kind of characters you're interested in playing (boundlessly enthusiastic warrior who loves to climb, scarred veteran of the Orc Wars, etc). That's what most spurs my imagination to craft world, setting, and story hooks that fit them. Caell's post (#68) is a great example of this. And Opalia's, just above it.

It may be buried by now, but my post #53 will hopefully serve as a useful jumping off point.

.

The concept I'm working with so far is a member of a dragonborn clan who were enforcers and assassins in the heady days of the Dragon Empire, but who slid into the shadows when the revolution happened to ensure their survival.  Over the past centuries the clan has become essentially a criminal organization still specializing in enforcement, assassination and theft, but has never forgotten what their ancestors were like.  My character would be a member of this clan and looking for a way to upset the current order so that their rightful place/honour can be reclaimed.  Given the scenario you sketched out, this means joining the latest rebellion against the gnome corporate lords aligns with the clan's desires, as it will destabilize the current power structure.

I think we'd need to flesh out how the dragonborn are viewed in current society, given they were tied to the bad empire way back when.  I'm expecting they will still have to stick to the fringes and would suffer prejudice in polite society, only walking openly in the grimier areas where day-to-day concerns have long overtaken thoughts of politics and they are judged on their current behaviour and usefulness.

Mechanically I'm thinking a Topaz Dragonborn Rogue (Soulknife), probably with the Criminal background.  Proud, tempermental, and looking to put his clan back on the map again.

Sikuaq - love soulknife, love the sound of this character

Rereading the writeup I immediately gravitated to union organizer or noble scion of an industrial family so I'll noodle a couple ideas on that and include a couple more that are my basic "this is what I'm thinking about right now in my 'ready to play' concepts" too

What's the situation on races. Gnomes are the big guys but where do other groups fall? Are they broadly represented across all strata (there are say orcish nobles and slum dwellers, dwarven robber barons and dwarven dock workers) or is it a "monstrous/savage humanoids are nearer the bottom" situation?

Obviously any race we want to play likely finds a place, but more outlandish races like kenku, aarokocra, fairy and satyr might not fit quite like elf and tiefling would?

Was also considering asking about homebrew classes like Mercer's Blood Hunter or Benjamin Huffman's Pugilist (possibly a decent union organizer . . .) but there's not much that's needed from these that core classes don't already provide. What's the sitch on artificer?
This message was last edited by the player at 21:44, Thu 16 Feb 2023.

Alright I've been doing some thinking and bard autognome tympanist named metro-gnome aside, I've got two character concepts in mind that I could run with. The first one really leans into the artifice concept. The second into the capitalist narrative.

Factor-157 (Autognome or Warforged Armorer Artificer)

Factor began his existence as a literal cog in the machine, CC-Factory-Automaton-157, a construct built into the assembly line of one of Crocklespring Cognelius's factories and imbued with the base minimum intellect required to fulfil his function. Without an individual identity, or indeed even legs to carry him from his post, Factor performed tirelessly for years, day and night without complaint or want of praise or payment. Until one day he could not. Deeming it more cost efficient to replace the failing construct than to repair it, Factor was ripped out of his station and cast aside for parts.

There in the factory scrapheap his story might have ended as quietly and unremarkably as it had begun if not for the intervention of a young Bazzle Cinderhorn. Seeing something of value in the discarded automaton, or perhaps feeling a sense of kinship with it, Baz carried Factor away from the factory of his creation and repaired him. More than just restore his form however, Baz gifted Factor with the one thing which Crocklespring had never deemed necessary to bestow upon him - a mind. And a true sense of self.

Factor remains a tireless worker, loyal servant and a fierce protector of those he deems to be his friends. Now possessed of a formidable intellect he works endlessly to reinvent himself, carrying on the task where Bazzle left off.

Baern Snagglehorn (Deepgnome Zealot Barbarrian)

The factories of Coglinton are a voracious beast, requiring an endless stream of workers and raw materials to keep the smoke stacks billowing. Fresh workers are abundant in the city's sprawling tenements, but raw materials must be ripped from the earth below. Deep below the surface, sprawling out like an ever expanding spiderweb of tunnels lie Coglinton's mines. There another host of workers labor in oppressive heat and darkness between the volcanic vents, prying minerals from the rocks to feed the glutenous appetite of the beast above.

Unlike the stranglehold the Cognelius clan maintains on the city, the mines are still a patchwork of contested claims vied for by old families, corporate enterprises, criminal syndicates and everything in between. Anyone can stake a claim theoretically as long as they are prepared to defend it. Sabotage is common. Bloody brawls are not unheard of. And that's before one considered the dangerous creatures that stalk the depths.

Life is cheap and golems are expensive so living, breathing workers are plentiful in the mines. Baern was one of them. Compared to their tinkering rock gnome cousins, the deep gnomes may have been an oddity in the streets and factories of Coglinton itself but here beneath the crust they were a common sight. As far as miners went Baern was a perfectly serviceable specimen. Like any deep gnome he was comfortable around the working end of a pickaxe. But where he really stood out like a vein of gold in an iron seam was in a brawl.

Baern started off his career as a tunneler for the Ironseeker company. After a particularly violent confrontation with a neighboring claim though he gained the attention of his foreman and was put to work as a tunnelwarden. His standing swiftly began to rise, but Baern became increasingly disillusioned with the whole ordeal. Rebelling against the callousness and rapacity of a system that chewed up men by the hundreds, swallowing them whole or spitting them back out again broken and listless Baern put together what wealth he could muster and headed for the surface. It was there he found Bazzle.

Bazzle Cinderhorn was different. He spoke to a new system; a new way of thinking and organizing - a system that benefitted the workers and not merely the barons at the top of the pile. Baern was immediately entranced. Signing on the with Ciderhorn crew, Baern perhaps unsurprisingly found himself applying his same talents in a new livery. But at least if he was going to be knocking heads for a living, he could do it with pride for a cause he honestly believed in.

Fantastic stuff! <3 you all (should read as "heart you all", though I realize it looks a little like I'm mooning you all!). Our current world was so enlarged and enriched by your contributions, and I see that starting to happen here already, with dragonborn assassins and sentient cogs.



My original concept, which is certainly not set in stone, was to try to conceptualize a world where race was not so prominent a feature of people's identity and social standing, particularly given its preeminence in our current campaign. I think this is also a concept borrowed from Eberron? That your relationship to the dragon overlords - whether you were a collaborator or a resister or something in between - matters more than whether you have wings or horns or a trunk. The races may once have had distinct cultures and societies but the dragons conquered everyone and flattened all that out and mish-mashed everyone together as their slaves, so now everyone's in the same boat trying to build a new culture and society from scratch, without strong pre-existing racial identities.

To Sikuaq's concept, I think even for dragonborn, it wouldn't have to be the case they were all necessarily aligned with or nostalgic for the dragon overlords. Many people would have a draconic ancestor somewhere in their past, so while the dragonborn might have been more likely to serve the dragons, it's not something that's immediately assumed or held against them.

I think that also means no one is outlandish. If you want to play it, we'll find a way to make it work.

Same idea here: if you want to play it, we'll find a way to make it work. Artificer is an easy fit.

Love both of them but Baern is so awesome, love the deep gnome zealot angle!

I'm muddling through coming up with well written concepts but basic idea for either a union organizer or a noble scion could be either a Cleric/Sorcerer OR a Battlemaster/Mastermind depending on the party needs (either a healer protector, or a person who gets the most out of their allies)

Or there's the draconic sorcerer who is a fire plane conduit cook, I can still do that too.

You guys all have such wonderful ideas! I'm truly impressed - and slightly intimidated (can you be creatively intimidated? I think that's possible)!

I keep thinking I'm going to come up with a better idea than the goblin paladin I originally considered. But so far... I got nothing. I've never played a gnome before, so that's intriguing. Well, tomorrow is another day - maybe something will hit me then!

You're welcome to suggest something different, Fergus, but no pressure - goblin paladin is a solid concept and there's plenty of creative ways to build that out. Just spitballing here:

1. IIRC you're original concept was to play against type, and that's still very viable - you could be a former member of a street gang or something who's gone straight and joined the constabulary. Oath of Vengeance could even ben an option here - maybe you've got a grudge against a gang or thieves' guild.

2. You could also consider being a kobold rather than a goblin, in which case the against type angle would come from serving the city and its humanoid residents against, among other threats, those of the draconic variety.

3. Not all paladins are dedicated to serving status quo authorities like church and government. As Order of the Ancients, for instance, you could oppose the city's rapacious industrialization and the damage it's doing to the natural world. (This might also be an uncommon role for a goblin, at least vis a vis WoW goblin lore.

4. D&D traditionally associates machinery and constructs with order and lawfulness. You could serve a church that worships the orderliness and predictability of clockwork and the like.

Just putting it out there that I'm considering a kobold or dragonborn for my investigator/constable.

Wow, lots more discussion and awesome ideas!  Love those character concepts, Sik and Arv.

I'm still interested in playing this loose character concept I pitched here before, but all the fun details remain TBD along with setting and party member connections and all the rest :)

I found this 5e Steampunk Compendium today: https://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/r1mnLrkNrZ

I've only flipped through it a little myself so it's not like an official campaign supplement or anything, but it might be useful for brainstorming purposes. There's a clockwork race that might be an alternative to warforged for the concept Arvid mentioned, for instance.

Literally all of these stubs could be an artificer or a battlemaster/mastermind multiclass, or a sorcerer/cleric multiclass. And this is just the two ideas I've been noodling on . . .

(Guild Artisan or Noble, possibly criminal (less reputable connections)?. Human or maybe tiefling?)

Meredith Ashbridge has lived a good life, some would even say privileged and undeserved. The natural born daughter of the noble house of Findlay of Ashbridge, taken in when her common parent died, she has thrown herself into both education (such as a natural daughter gets) and work to pay a never-ending debt to her esteemed family. Though the Findlays bring her out for parades and "worker unity" days and tout her as a beloved bridge between the aristocracy and the common, she often thinks she overhears the whispered resentments of both camps.

(Entertainer or Criminal/Urchin or Guild Artisan or Folk Hero, satyr, gnome, human, anything really)

Kreovliam (Kreo) was once just another face in the crowd, working a thankless job down in the lower districts. But all that changed when a wildcat strike was called in response to a worker dying at one of the tanning houses. Kreo joined the strike in solidarity, and got the brunt of a guard's club for his troubles, but gave as good as he got, finding he had a taste for the solidarity of the worker. He began organizing, meeting with his comrades and doing what he could to protect them.

Edit: and there's still a warlock/sorcerer mega-cook option if that's of interest
This message was last edited by the player at 14:55, Sun 05 Mar 2023.

I've opened a new game with some more details about Coglinton. Please RTJ at your convenience: link to another game