Aisent
not unless you want to spend hours doing that. my next post is going to give you pretty much all you are going to get from the tavern and its not really an hourly task there. However, if you want to go around asking people about things you could and THAT would be a dailies thing because you are literally walking around town for x number of hours striking up conversation to gain information.
Upkeep is what you are using for the activities. like, maybe a wizard wants to use visualization of the mind for a charsima or int boost to whatever they aim to do. Ok, so you spend a spell slot for +5 to checks. record what you had, how much you spent, and then the new total.
maybe you want to craft, so the spell slot and cost of crafting.
Once you are finished with all your buffs, costs, etc... basically your prep and expense.
you go on to what it is you want to do. what is all this glorious buffing and spending for? you want to try to craft as best a palm sized wooden horse as ever has been crafted? ok, do the thing, roll using your gloriously buffed modifier.
did it fail? did it succeed? record you progress or failure. In most cases, you cant finish something that has a cost unless you finish paying off the cost. How are you going to finish that masterwork palm sized wooden horse if you dont have all the wood? Cost is pretty relative in most cases, just assume you lack something to finish the task (gloss? primer? maybe your sander is too warn out now?). Sometimes you can appeal to finish it without all the cost yet paid, give a reason and either I or Arkrim can go and give it a stamp of denial (or approval). Example and hint, if you can take a loan for costs then this would be one way to 'pay it off without actually having fully paid it off'. You WILL need to finish paying asap though.
next is income. so, maybe you werent crafting the worlds best palm sized wooden horse... say you were just polishing peoples armor or whatever. How much did you earn?
say you did finish your horse, and you immediately want to sell it. Whever you did... record what you had, how much you earned, and then the new total. Pretty much the opposite of upkeep.
Events are events, its mostly a side thing you dont have to touch. ^_^ I or arkrim will touch it for you *scary laser eyes and demon voice*.
You can roll it if you want, we may allow it, or do our own rolls, or whatever. as said in the intro... the actions' event's is one of the very few times I will be arbitrary.
Do you have any further questions on this?
Finaril
I did say most the map is unexplored.
trust me when I say that in time you will be grateful for such a large map. What happens if you lose your kingdom and have to relocate? what if you are at war, losing, and decide to grab some bp and make a run for another spot?
Also, once I get you guys going, I may add another couple of players.
Theres also tactical room on this map for strategic waterway maneuvers (this is specifically why I chose a group of islands for the map. I wanted to go broken lands but hex crafter didnt want to cooperate).
Finally, on why the size will be good in the long run, this is a multi tier game... remember? if you post for adventurers or mercenaries and I get players to play those, they have play room to spare. Maybe they even end up becoming bandits, outlaws, or new rulers.... or they hit the trees and go monster hunting to be better mercenaries for you rulers? Plenty of land for whatever can happen.
I am aware the size is why it doesnt fit in the map upload rpol section. I dont think we really need it there since its publicly available anyways. I get its slightly less convenient. if you really-really-really want, I can make a map thread and embed the map(s).
Rivers are features and most features are not visible until explored. Thankfully they are really easy to find and typically just moving into proximity of them will find them. the land mass is literally dead new, the port town is a hastily made hub from the people who either happened to be there when the land emerged or who got there first. No actual exploration has been made other then near the port town.
as for hex sizes:
quote:
Dale McCoy Jr wrote:
As Urath DM said, there was considerable confusion over what "12 miles across" meant. The first version of the our rules (Exploration and Kingdom Building) had the measurement being 12 miles from side to side. As you pointed out Laithoron, that comes out to 125 mi^2, not 150. The only way I was able to get ~150 miles^2 with a 12 miles across statement is to assume a square instead of a hex. That would give 144 mi^2.
We looked for clarification on the boards, but ultimately we needed to make a decision and we chose to go with 12 mile sides. At the time we felt that was what Paizo had originally intended. That comes out to ~375 mi^2. That is the official ruling for this book.
If you prefer to adjust the number for your own game, it has little bearing on the way the kingdom building aspect is played. In the same way that the kingdom's population is simply a fluff number, the dimensions of a hex are more fluff then of game altering mechanics. For example the travel time across a hex is a static number, despite the distance across a hex varies widely depending on how you are measuring it. A 12 mile side is 24 miles when measured from corner to corner, yet the travel time remains the same. So if you choose to call the hex size different but leave the travel time the same, it has little impact on game play.
Sorry for the confusion.
Dale McCoy Jr wrote:
Gamemonger wrote:
The Book of the River Nations doubles the width of hexes (and quadruples the area of hexes).
The Kingmaker book said 12 miles from corner to corner (or 6 miles a side). James Jacobs once clarified this as 12 miles center-to-center (Approximately 7 miles a side). Both of these are much less than The Book of the River Nations' statement of 12 miles to a side.
This causes conflict with the Pathfinder overland travel rules (basically doubles the speed of travel), whereas the Kingmaker version is a mere simplification of the overland travel rules.
The Book of the River Nations also misrepresents the size of The Stolen Lands as larger than Washington State, whereas its supposed to be about the size of Maine. It also makes city districts seem like they take up much less space in a hex than they really do.
In other words, this small mistake "breaks" a lot of the assumptions that go into the Kingmaker AP.
Any chance of fixing this in the PDF?
This was asked upthread I said then that I was not going to. There are several reasons why. I don't know if I shared them all in one place before so I'll share them all here:
1) It doesn't change any of the actual game mechanics itself. The travel time table is identical to the one in the Adventure. If you want to change that for your home game it makes no difference to the game itself. None. If you want to change it for your own game, rest assured that your game experience will not change. Just like the actual population number, no mechanics are actually dependent upon the size of the hex or the area of the kingdom. Simply the number of hexes your kingdom occupies.
2) This is not a slam on Paizo or anyone that works there but I do not believe that anyone there is either a mathematician or civil engineer. Infact their open calls for game designers/developers typically calls for an english or a history degree. (I'm an engineer by day job and by degree.) The way you calculate area of a hexagon is to measure a side. So my natural assumption was that the 12 miles corner to corner was that it was a typo and they actually meant 12 miles per side. Jacobs clarification came after (or atleast I didn't hear about it until after) the book had already gone to print (and mathematically speaking, you don't measure the distance between points A and B to get something that B has nothing to do with, it is poor mathematics). Before it went to print, however, I ran through ALOT of calculation models before publishing the book (including models with 6 mile sides and 7 mile sides, because I did question exactly what they meant) and I found that the 12 mile sided hex worth of farms was closer to providing the consumption reduction (the actual number was like 11.6 something miles, IIRC). Mind you, the calculations assumed alot of things that simply aren't true like the growth rate was constant from year to year and all farmers were equally skilled, but it is as historically accurate as I can make it. That was the same reason why I switched the Warden and the Marshall, historical accuracy.
3) The Book of the River Nations has sold over 1000 copies. There are only 2 other Pathfinder Compatible books that I know of that have also passed that threshold (Tome of Horrors Complete and Psionics Unleashed).
There are simply to many copies of the book out there for me to invalidate for something that neither is historically accurate nor changes the way the game is played. If there ever is a second edition of the book, we are on the list of things to look at, but that will depend on if any future books use the kingdom building rules (*cough*Shadowsfall*cough) and their relative popularity and so forth. All I can say that we'll see. But for this version, the way it is is the way it is.
I, personally, prefer to use the 'from one side to the other interpretation' (rather than center to center) but will accept either use as, as the quote addresses, most everything is mechanically the same in both cases.
besides, terrain tends to be different from hex to hex so if one person does like 144 and another likes 375 then we can just hard stamp that as we go to simulate the differences in terrain.
This message was last edited by the GM at 03:06, Sat 28 Mar 2020.
