* Wealth 23 +6 (Orange) +3 (White) = 32 - Prosperous. Your family has the funds to live in accordance with their station.

There have been a number of suggestions, mostly for single items. If you have suggestions please post them here.

The choice of using Out of Strife, Prosperity will change how these work and will give us additional options. So far we have the following opinons on using that supplement. Please comment on that too if you haven't already.


Out of Strife:
Yay: White, Red, black, brown
Nay: Gold, Gray
Undecided: Orange, Silver
GM: Purple
This message was last edited by the GM at 20:23, Thu 11 June 2020.

Current thoughts are a Port and Maester and save the rest for potential expenses and endeavors during play. Maester also opens up additional character options for people who were talking about such concepts.

I mean maester is a must. House needs to be able to communicate with ravens and heal potential injuries that will happen. Someone also mentioned playing an artisan.

If I read the rules correctly, the Master of Ravens doesn't have to be a Maester. But I agree with you, lore wise it seems that they are Maesters.

In reply to Dragondog (msg # 4):

I guess having a character who knows to heal (again, doesn't have to be a master, that witch might know that) is recommendable.

The difference is Dragondog said people cannot play a maester if we don't pay for the mechanical benefits of one, where as someone can play a smith even if we don't have a castle artisan.

Worth noting though, I'm pretty sure anyone can take the Master of Ravens benefit as long as they have enough animal handling, they don't specifically have to be a maester.

In reply to Gray (msg # 6):

This is true in game, somewhat hard to justify in Canon thanks to all secret "speaking the language or ravens" thing. So they needed to be at least trained at the Citadel for a while.

Speaking the language of ravens?  o_O

That is how I read the rules too Gray.

And I'm glad you brought having the holding to have the character up. As that reminded me of Out of Strife, Prosperity again. Which says that without the holding, you can still have the thing, but it will not give you any bonus. That should be applicable to the Maester too.

So we could have a Maester without the Maester holding, but it would be a low level, no good Maester that wouldn't provide the effects the Maester hodling would

In reply to Gray (msg # 8):

Poorly defined skill of ravenry. Due to maester being super secretive it is not clarified is this something magical (heavily implied due to whole ravens/children of the forest connection) or they really study behavior of ravens. They mostly keep skill to themselves in the books.

 Oh, in that case I am okay with not taking the actual holding, though +3 to the fortune rolls would be nice there are more flavorful options to choose as well (maybe a mine, or castle artisan).

It is reasonable to have Maester and a septon because nearly every house of our size has them. So having them without benefits is something I support.

Out of strife, prosperity.
Rich mine page 12 (can be silver gold or gems) With smelter improvement: House fortune bonus +3, Resource gain bonus wealth +2 and resource gain bonus population +1 and Reduced cost of artisan personage by 2 - 25 Wealth points
 I vote silver because of purples nomenclatures, and flag ideas and such.

Large library Page 16: 2 bonus die to any knowledge research check when using the library. Also reduce cost of scholar personage holding by 2 - 2 defense points and 5 wealth

I originally had my +1 from our House Stat Modification rolls... not sure how or why that was changed... that would make defense 52 so the large library could be afforded.

This post was inspired by the song “If I were a Rich Man” from Fiddler on the Roof.
:-)

With the 2 wealth left over...
Annual festivals (Perhaps to celebrate whatever greatness our HoH accomplished during Roberts rebellion) page 14: Your house funds a handful of Major Festivals Each year. Gain 1 bonus die to intrigues with your house’s subjects. -2 wealth

Edit: the errata says that each land holding can only have 2 wealth holdings, so I would save the 2 wealth left over for a scriptorium for the library when we get 3 more wealth.

Edit again....
I changed my mind about the Library, I would like a comfortable lifestyle instead.
This message was last edited by the player at 21:21, Thu 11 June 2020.

The individual bonuses were moved around so that we can get as much as possible out of them. Your +1 was moved to Power.

Depending on what rules set we go with, these may not be available.

And let me repost this here to, in the errate they state that only two wealth holdings can be placed in a land holding.

There's a link  to the errata pdf in the OOC thread.

Spare wealth, like influence, is never a bad thing as they are used for stuff outside of just holdings.

I vote to leave the rules decision to Dragondog.

With that I'm ruliing that we do go with Strife

Do Brown’s suggestions go along with Port and Maester or as an alternative?

First of all,  I changed my ruling on Naester. You can have the character without the holding,  but you don't get the bonus the holding would have given you. As we are using Strife, we cannot have Port. We cannot afford both Brown's suggestion and a Maester holding.

In that case, I agree with Brown’s choices unless someone has a more lucrative prospect.

 Difficult to say as I do not own the book we are all using now. And if it changes things from the core book, how could I choose from that then?

In reply to Purple (msg # 18):

It would be an alternative... I edited my above post, please weigh in on Library benefits vs. Lifestyle benefits.
This message was last edited by the player at 21:23, Thu 11 June 2020.

Rich mine page 12 (can be silver gold or gems) With smelter improvement: House fortune bonus +3, Resource gain bonus wealth +2 and resource gain bonus population +1 and Reduced cost of artisan personage by 2 - 25 Wealth points

Standard of living pg 17 - Comfortable  (5 Wealth): Your House eats, dresses, and decorates a bit better than most nobles. Your fash- ions are usually up to date. new rule: Members of your House gain +1 to Intrigue Defense and +1B to Endurance checks when healing naturally while in your House’s holdings. House members can procure most goods worth a dragon or less using House funds, credit, or a stipend without using their personal funds.

Also allows temporary investment Entourage: traveling comfortably if we have a large trip maintain the benefits outside of our holdings 1 for Comfortable

Rich mine with smelter sounds good. I say we save the rest in case we want to throw a tournament or have some other sudden need for funds.

As for the number of wealth holdingslb. The errata was for the core rules.  Any rules in Strife that changes the number of holdings you can have still apply.
This message was last edited by the GM at 15:02, Fri 12 June 2020.

All right, a silver mine sounds good. The Vale won't be as reliant on Westerland silver as the rest of the 7 kingdoms.


Though I still like the "food, agriculture" with "Alcohol distillery" idea

We'd spend: 5 Wealth

We'd get: House fortune rolls: +1, +1 Pop +1 Pow

And if we buy the "alcohol distillery" we'd spend another 5 wealth and get +1 pop and +1 Wealth.

Perhaps this could be our Maester's pet project?

Mines and food agriculture are both estate holdings which are restricted to one a domain.

If you want that we would need to come up with another 7 land minimum for hills.

In reply to Red (msg # 30):

Can't we have the mine in the mountain and the distillery on the grassland?

I might be confusing something here...

Domain is a referring to a 3 mile section of terrain, in the vale that’s mountains or hills

Features are things like woods, grassland, or river; mostly things that are geographic.
A domain can have as many features as feasible, but a domain without a feature is barren.

Holdings are much broader and include defense and wealth holdings.
some Wealth holdings have limits to how many a domain
Estate wealth holdings (mine or food agriculture) is limited to 1 per domain.
Settlement Wealth holdings have a limit based on what community or defensive holding they (attach to for lack of a better word)
Hamlet or tower can hold 1
Small town or hall can hold 2
Small City or castle can hold 3
Large city or superior castle have no limit

Personage and lifestyle wealth holdings do not have a limit

Could we keep the agriculture and whiskey aspect?

We could say that the original silver mine tapped out. We can try for another mine later.

In reply to Purple (msg # 33):

Mines with smelting take 3d6 +24 months to build.
Food agriculture with alcohol distillery 2d6 + 9 months to build

An active mine of that caliber goes a long way to explain the exceptionally high influence and defense of such a physically small house.
All of our holdings currently exist in a 3 mile stretch of land, but we have one of the 8ish strongest defensible structures.

I’m not against a food agriculture purchase on a second domain.

OK, better stick with the mine first then.

We can just say we drank all the first batch of whiskey.

In reply to Red (msg # 32):

Thanks Red for explaining.
Yeah, we better stick with mining... we can still stumble upon "unused" land with our army and expand later...

For those that don't have the new book, let us know what kind of holding you would like to have or what effect you would like the holding to have and we can see what the new book provides.

So far we have two main suggestions from Brown and Red, that no one seems to have chosen between.

As well as a discussion on if we are going to have a mine or be alcohol producers which has landed in keeping the mine both Red and Brown had in their suggestions.

Are we going to have a Library that can help us research stuff or a Standard of Living that allows the House to cover your minor expenses? Those are just summaries, read the full benefits of each in the presentations above.

I'll add, we could also use some to improve the gear of our troops. If we aren't too worried about warfare in these relatively peaceful times (it has been 15 years since the war) then yeah, just save the remaining 7 Wealth.
This message was last edited by the player at 16:52, Fri 12 June 2020.

A sufficient number of players have voted for the mine, so we have a silver mine with a smelter for an investment of 25 Wealth that gives us:
* House Fortune Rolls +3.
* Resource Gain Bonus: Wealth +2 and Population +1.
* Other Holding Discount: Appropriate Artisan Personage Holding cost reduced by 2.

That leaves us 7 Wealth points to invest.
* Library: Brown
* Cost of Living: Red, Purple
* Save it for later: Gray

Gold, Green, and Purple is there anything you want to invest your Wealth in?

(I didn't name the others as they are either working on the banner house or has explicitly stated that they want to "leave the house building to the people who are passionate about that.")
This message was last edited by the GM at 22:05, Fri 12 June 2020.

I think I like the cost of living benefits since it may be some time before we make any more gains.

In reply to Dragondog (msg # 39):

I would like to change my choice to cost of living since we don’t have enough defense to get a large library.

What does defense have to do with a library?

Having a library requires an investment of Defense as well as Wealth.

Interesting

I knew those little old lady librarians were trained for war!

So that is three in favor of cost of living, one for saving (or maybe spend a couple points improving our troops' gear)

That leaves us 7 Wealth points to invest.
* Cost of Living: Brown, Red, Purple
* Save it for later: Gray

Gold and Green is there anything you want to invest your Wealth in?

Cost of living would be cool but is that a recurring cost or a one time investment?

It’s a one time investment.
The improvement “Entourage” is a temporary investment for any travel that refunds after returning.

I like the role play implications because main house characters wouldn’t have to penny pinch, like we are aspiring Lannisters. My character is likely still taking the Wealthy benefit, but that’s for personal preference.

* Cost of Living: Brown, Red, Purple, Gold
* Save it for later: Gray

Then I'm calling it as:

* Rich Mine (Silver)
* Standard of Living (Comfortable)

With that Standard of Living, the second bonus mentioned, does that apply to our starting items as well (being able to procure stuff valued at a Gold Dragon or less as not actually eating into person funds)?

If you cannot get them as starting items, I forsee a month of shopping trips to get them right after we begin. When any such exemption no longer would be in effect.

But the way I read the trait, there doesn't seem to be any exemption for starting items. So you should be able to use that rule on your starting items too.

A question for those that are more familiar with Out of Strie, Prosperity (OoSP).

I know we're going for a maester without the Maester holding. But what holding in OoSP fulfills the role of Maester?

In the introduction, it is said that the cost for a Maester holding should be reduced to 10 Wealth because it is an Iconic Setting Trait, but it doesn't say what holding to use and in the core rules, it already costs 10 Wealth. So what is up?

That is rather peculiar.

OoSP pg 3 Breaks down the cost per bonus in a holding so a group can create your own to fit their campaign. By these rules a maester is 15 wealth, but a “Iconic setting holding” can have reduced cost to encourage their use and flavor the setting. That the reduction to 10 wealth the sidebar is referring too.


This message was last edited by the player at 05:01, Thu 18 June 2020.

Of course. Thanks, Red.