In this thread, the group will design the house the group's characters will be members of. Some will be blood, but others might not. We will be following the rules from the book in regards to how we create the house and lands that will be the group's home base.

And as the focus of this campaign will be on ruling the house, it will be a place of great importance.

The first step here is to choose the Realm in which your house is located: King's Landing, Dragonstone, The North, The Iron Islands, The Riverlands, The Mountains of the Moon, The Westerlands, The Reach, The Stormlands, or Dorne.

Is there a specific Realm you would prefer or is there one you would like to avoid? Or would you prefer that it is completely random?
This message was last edited by the GM at 13:32, Mon 08 June 2020.

My preference would be the Iron Islands. Pirates, the Old Way, the Drowned God, every captain a king on his own deck? Sounds like a great opportunity to me.
This message was last edited by the player at 17:59, Mon 08 June 2020.

If I had a preference it would be the Mountains of the Moons, the Riverlands or the Reach.

I'd prefer not to to play in the North due to overexposure. As far as the iron islands I currently don't have a character concept in mind for that culture.

I like the idea of the Iron Islands also it gives more  solo flexibility if we need. As stated we  can be all  from  the same House  but Captain of our own vessels etc.

Are we looking at playing in the current era, ie Robert's Rebellion? Or, is there another era that people prefer.  Asking mainly because it might affect where I'd like to start a house.

In the standard era, I think...from most to least favored.

The Vale
Stormlands
Westlands (I have specific thoughts on this one more than general)
The Reach
Dorne
King's Landing
Iron Islands - just kind of meh on the whole concept of pirating and raiding things.
The North - so tired of the North lol

This game will overlap the timeline we saw in the TV show, but those events are not fixed as your actions could change them.

But as was shown in the source material, your character may also die. There is no plot armor for the PCs.

I’d prefer to start in the Vale or Reach. I’m not really fond of the Iron Islands.
I guess the storm lands could be interesting too.

So till now we have:

The Vale- 3
Iron Island- 2
Riverlands- 1
The Reach- 2
Stormlands- 1
Westerlands- 1


We don’t want:

North- 2
The Iron Islands- 3 (one doesn’t have a character concept)

So till now it’s the Vale, is that something everyone could agree on?
The Vale would be great for ensuring a keep or even castle and to have someone interesting to fight without having to start a war (the mountain clans)

There are a few more players that just have been invited that haven't posted yet, so let's give them some time to post about this too.

I don’t mind where we are set.

Hello folks. I am also in favor of the Vale or Stormlands, but if others want to play somewhere else I'll have no trouble applying one of my concepts there. If we are starting at the time books are starting Vale seems like the interesting choice because of the whole Arryn affair.

So till now we have:

The Vale- 4
Iron Island- 2
Riverlands- 1
The Reach- 2
Stormlands- 2
Westerlands- 1


We don’t want:

North- 2
The Iron Islands- 3 (one doesn’t have a character concept)

Let’s go with the Vale.

So can we start with the House? Who will make the rolls?

We're still waiting for two people. They made the request to join the game 16 and 7 hours ago and I approved them 7 hours ago. I am as exited as all of you to get going, and I'd like this to be a group effort. Perhaps they are sleeping or at work or whatever and haven't had the chance to check back in.
This message was last edited by the GM at 12:32, Tue 09 June 2020.

In this time period...
Order of preference:
Dorne
North of the wall
The Vale
The Reach

They are less active militarily in the war of the five kings, so that encourages more of a political / intrigue game.
This message was last edited by the player at 14:40, Tue 09 June 2020.

That leaves us one of the two I mentioned above. And another player has joined the game too. And another has expressed interest in the recruitment thread, which I only looked at by accident.

That gives us 11-12 players. A lot more than I expected. Can we manage that number of PCs in one house or do we want to create two houses?
This message was last edited by the GM at 13:37, Tue 09 June 2020.

I'm fine with the Vale if that's where the majority have voted. 11-12 might be a lot for one house, but we also need to expect some attrition, so the number will likely go down quickly. That being said, if you think you can devote the time to 2 houses, that might be interesting as well.

In reply to Dragondog (msg # 18):

I think that depends. Do you feel comfortable running two story arcs for separate houses, and, how much player attrition we get.  Currently, if 75%+ stay active, two houses would give each PC more of a chance to shine. However, if 50% or more drop the game, you could end up with two very under populated houses.

If you want to go that big, perhaps one House in the Vale and one house in the Reach, working to help each other. If player attrition hits hard, burn one house down and have its members absorbed by the other. :)

I will accept that as Purple's preference to the Vale and the Reach, unless they say otherwise. Which leaves us one player who hasn't checked in.

And double checking my list, I noticed that I was looking at the wrong player earlier and that Gray contacted me earlier, but I invited them at about the same time as mentioned above.

I considered the merging to two houses and I can see the advantages of having two of them. But actually running the story for two houses could be a little much.

It is a lot to take on.

Even this game with a singular house can be daunting. Especially with a large character pool at the beginning. Please let us know how to make things run easy and smooth.

Thank you Purple.

I'll give Gray 3.5 hours to voice their opinion on the Realm, thus giving them 24 hours from first contact to do so.

In reply to Dragondog (msg # 22):

Running 2 houses would be a LOT more work. I have run my fair share of in person campaigns, and the story starts to suffer (despite you best efforts) if you take on too much. The last thing any of us wants is for you to burn out. Let us know what sort of boundaries you need to put in place in order to make the game most comfortable and enjoyable for you to run.
This message was last edited by the player at 15:06, Tue 09 June 2020.

IF you decide to try two houses, an option to manage the storylines could be the use of banner houses. Example, perhaps Red is lord of the main house and I am the lord of his banner house. My oath is to the main house so there could be a story line that draws us together with smaller arcs within our individual houses.

100% fine with whatever you feel comfortable with!

Considering all the suggestions, I think in the end it will be most workable to remain one house.

The majority has suggested The Mountains of Moon or The Vale.

Realm: The Mountains of Moon
Liege: Jon Arryn, Lord of the Eyrie, Hand of the King, Warden of the East.


Step 2 Resources
The starting Resources for your House are:
Defense +20
Influence +10
Lands -5
Law -10
Population -5
Power +0
Wealth +0

If the following can please roll 7d6, using the in game dice roller, and post the result in this thread:
Black for Defense
Blue for Influence
Brown for Lands
Green for Law
Purple for Population
Red for Power
White for Wealth
This message was last edited by the GM at 17:54, Tue 09 June 2020.

You don't have to post in the above order. Feel free just to roll and post.

26 Power

12:52, Today: White rolled 22 using 7d6.  Wealth

Meh average-ish

Defense is 41.

I see I missed the cut off for vote. Apologies, 7am is a bit early for me and my insomnia. C'est la vie.

Sorry about that Gray, I used the time you submitted your RTJ, figuring that you would be awake by then.
This message was last edited by the GM at 20:49, Tue 09 June 2020.

Influence: 41 (rolled 31, +10 per Resources above)

15:25, Today: Blue rolled 31 using 7d6 ((6,5,5,1,4,5,5)).

15:46, Today: Purple rolled 20 using 7d6 ((5,1,5,2,1,2,4)).

I believe that puts us at 15 Population

While we're waiting for Brown and Green to roll so that we can finish the first phase of Step 2, let's make a quick peek to Step 3.

Step 3 is about your House's history. How old do you want your house to be? Ancient (Age of Heroes), Very Old (Andal Invasion), Old (Rhoynar Invasion), Established (Aegon's Conquest), Recent (Blackfyre Rebellion), or New (War of the Usurper)? Or do you want it to be a random roll?

I like random rolling, personally.

In reply to Gray (msg # 37):

seconded on the random.  I am even ok with you rolling on some of this to speed things up.  :-)

In past games, the GMs had players roll the actual events and flesh out what exactly happened in said event. This would also give us potential NPCs or houses to flesh out for interaction.

In reply to Dragondog (msg # 27):


15:34, Today: Brown rolled 16 using 7d6.  Lands

In reply to Dragondog (msg # 36):

I would prefer something around the Andal Invasion. I’m good with anything but “New” (that would be like Sir Davos’ family, and while I love his character in the tv series and in the books... he just learned to read and he’s the head of his house.

Thats a fair point. Older houses means more events (for good or ill) for players to roll.

I saw Merchant and Merchant Prince among status.

Is there a possibility that one of the House siblings is in charge of such a merchant venture? Perhaps those who mentioned a desire to own ships could be    shipmasters for such a venture.

Well, I assume that would mean we would need to invest in a market and dock on our lands.

I would prefer we randomize events.

In reply to Orange (msg # 45):

I think it was more a question of picking or rolling how old our house will be. I thought random events was the default?

Which requires a coast feature (3 land), and likely a town at (at least 20 land) to attach the dock and market to :(

Depending on the final house stats, I am tempted to create a ursurer myself to prop up our apparent family of sellswords.
This message was last edited by the player at 21:56, Tue 09 June 2020.

In reply to Gray (msg # 46):

I am fine with randomizing that as well. Although influence we rolled points to a bit older House.

Instaed of ship if no coast it could  be a caravan of merchants and guards etc  should handle just like a ship but instead  several wagons etc.

My question was only about the age of the house, not the events. The historical events are random.
This message was last edited by the GM at 22:07, Tue 09 June 2020.

15:04, Today: Green rolled 29 using 7d6 with rolls of 2,6,5,5,4,4,3.  I am the law!

-10... :-P

Defense 41 - Excellent defenses, with man-made fortifications likely combined with defensible terrain features.
Influence 41 - Maximum Lord's Status 5. A powerful minor house with colorful history. Examples include House Florrent and House Frey.
Lands 11 - A small stretch of land, about the size of a single small island or small portion of a larger island, or a large city and its immediate environs, such as House Mormont.
Law 19 - Lawlessness and banditry are a problem along the fringes of your lands.
Population 15 - Small population but no single community larger than a small town.
Power 26 - A modest force of soldiers, including some trained troops.
Wealth 22 - Common. Your family has enough to get by.


These are the current stats of your House. If you can increase the score to the next number that ends with 1, you will "level up" that Resource.

Each of you please roll 1d6. Post in this thread what you rolled and what resource you want to modify. You can choose any resource, but no more than two players can modify the same resource.
This message was last edited by the GM at 22:12, Tue 09 June 2020.

Can we wait till after we roll events and see where our strengths and deficiencies lay currently?

I agree the history rolls might make some changes then our rolls can make some further ones.

  So it seems, at our founding, we were a small though well regarded house with little more land than what our keep sits upon. With our lands being well defended, but also plagued with issues of banditry, it sounds like we are probably near the Mountains and have to contend with the clans of wildmen that come raiding from them.

 I kind of get the impression that, at least at start, we were only influential either because of our founders or by someone they knew or were related to since it seems we didn't have a lot going for us in regards to our lands or resources.

By the rules, the individual rolls should be done before the history rolls, but I don't mind if we postpone them.

It seems that the consensus on the age of the House was random, but older.



So, Orange, if you're around, could you please roll 1d3 for the age of our house please.

In reply to Dragondog (msg # 57):

00:35, Today: Orange rolled 2 using 1d3.

+6 to a defense
Come On superior castle
This message was last edited by the player at 22:47, Tue 09 June 2020.

00:40, Today: Orange rolled 1 using 1d6.

Woe. I'll add that to Law because we don't want our lands to be full of robbers in addition to whatever GM throws at us.

I guess this means we have been around since Andal invasion?

So the House is Very Old and was founded during the Andal Invasion. That means 1d6+2 random events in your past.

If Gray is here, would you roll 3d6 please. This would be the first event and the reason why the House was founded.

Black, could you roll 1d6+2 to determine how many historical events we have for our House.

 Should I roll for the different adjustments as well?

 Also, have we decided what the name of our House even is?

In reply to Gray (msg # 56):

I want a mountain with a mine :-) Shiney.

18:53, Today: Black rolled 3 using 1d6+2.  House events.

It was requested that the individual rolls be made after the historical events had been established. So you don't nee to make your individual roll at this time Gray.

We have not decided what the name of the House is yet. Your roll and the founding of the House will likely have a (great) influence on that choice.

Brown and Green can you roll 3d6 each please for the second and the third historical event for the House.

Alright, seems our House was founded with GLORY.  Mayhaps our founder was one of the great Andal leaders who landed on the shores of the Mountains of the Moon alongside Ser Artys Arryn and was influential in maintaining a foothold in the initial conquest and fighting against the First Men.


16:00, Today: Gray rolled 6 using 1d6.  Power.

15:59, Today: Gray rolled 2 using 1d6.  Law.

15:59, Today: Gray rolled 6 using 1d6.  Influence.

15:59, Today: Gray rolled 1 using 1d6.  Defense.

16:01, Today: Green rolled 16 using 3d6.  Event!

We are Glorious twice over!


16:03, Today: Green rolled 6 using 1d6.  Power.

16:03, Today: Green rolled 2 using 1d6.  Law.

16:03, Today: Green rolled 4 using 1d6.  Influence.

16:02, Today: Green rolled 6 using 1d6.  Defense.

We've had some good times

What the House looked like when it was founded.

Defense 42 - Excellent defenses, with man-made fortifications likely combined with defensible terrain features.
Influence 47 - Maximum Lord's Status 5. A powerful minor house with colorful history. Examples include House Florrent and House Frey.
Lands 11 - A small stretch of land, about the size of a single small island or small portion of a larger island, or a large city and its immediate environs, such as House Mormont.
Law 21 - The typical level of Law throughout much of Westeros. Crime is common but not out of control.
Population 15 - Small population but no single community larger than a small town.
Power 32 - A trained force of soldiers, including cavalry and possibly ships. You may have the service of a banner house.
Wealth 22 - Common. Your family has enough to get by.


Both Law and Power "leveled up".

Glory: A family wins glory through a military victory, personal achievement, or by a great act of heroism. Glory is similar to Ascent, but it focuses on one figure in your family's past. The result of this individual's deeds advances your family's standing in the eyes of its peers. Generally, Glory as a first historical event should imply that your house was formed as a reward for the great acts of their founder.
This message was last edited by the GM at 23:11, Tue 09 June 2020.

In reply to Dragondog (msg # 53):

I rolled a 1 out of 6 for our house stat adjustment.

There are 7 holding resources:
Defense
Influence
Lands
Law
Population
Power
Wealth

Each one of them can only be added to by two players maximum (according to the rules).
Since I rolled a 1, can I wait to allocate mine after people with higher rolls do so, so that I do not take up one of the 2 slots for something with a low number?

Everyone is waiting with their individual rolls right now Brown.

Could you please roll 3d6 for me to determine one of the historical events for the House please.

It is hard to believe we got the bare minimum number of events for as old of a house as our's.

Yeah, but 1 in 6 do. And here we are.

In reply to Gray (msg # 73):

Well, not all Houses had rocky history. We enjoyed peace and apparently, prosperity.

Here's hoping for a Windfall, we could use some more Wealth and Lands

In reply to Dragondog (msg # 72):


18:29, Today: Brown rolled 6 using 3d6.  Historical Event.

Madness!!!

18:40, Today: Brown rolled 1 using 6-2d6.  Wealth: 6-2d6.
18:39, Today: Brown rolled -2 using 6-2d6.  Power: 6-2d6.
18:39, Today: Brown rolled -2 using 6-2d6.  Population: 6-2d6.
18:39, Today: Brown rolled -6 using 6-2d6.  Law: 6-2d6.
18:38, Today: Brown rolled 2 using 6-2d6.  Lands: 6-2d6.
18:37, Today: Brown rolled -2 using 6-2d6.  Influence: 6-2d6
18:37, Today: Brown rolled 0 using 6-2d6.  Defense: 6-2d6
This message was last edited by the player at 23:43, Tue 09 June 2020.

In reply to Brown (msg # 78):

Hehe hehe. Fits in nicely with having a mad daughter.

So we were a House of heroes and then things got a bit... weird.

So that is, what, +6 to each attribute, but then you subtract 2d6 from each?
This message was last edited by the player at 23:35, Tue 09 June 2020.

Who ever's on, feel free to share in rolling 2d6-6 for each resource and post the result. That result will be deducted from your resource. So in this case you may want to roll low.

16:37, Today: Gray rolled 2 using 2d6-6.

So... a stat is reduced by 2?
This message was last edited by the player at 23:45, Tue 09 June 2020.

Today: Orange rolled 4 using 2d6-6 with rolls of 5,5

Wanna add that to power. Paranoia makes one invest in swords.

Brown got us covered and rolled all of them with resource indicated for each roll too.

18:41, Today: Purple rolled 1 using 2d6-6 with rolls of 3,4.

Ok, cool.

They even updated their previous post. Awesome!
This message was last edited by the GM at 23:43, Tue 09 June 2020.

Uff, some bad rolls, hahahaha.

Madness: Inbreeding, fell secrets, disease, or mental defects can produce derrangement and madness among any people of Westeros, including its rulers. A Madness historical event indicates that a particular figure s uffered from some insanity, producing unpredictable results, with positive or negative outcomes. Each resource increases by +6 and then decreases by -2d6, producing a range of +4 to -6. If this was your first result, your family was instead raised by an insane lord or king as appropriate to the period of your first founding.

So it looks like this is where things stand "Modern Day" for our House (adding player rolls as they come)

Defense 48
Influence 49
Lands 13
Law 17
Population 13
Power 36
Wealth 23


RED: +6 Lands
ORANGE: +1 Influence
BROWN: +1 Defense
GRAY: +2 Defense
BLUE: +6 Lands
GOLD: +4 Lands (conflicts with Red and Blue)
PURPLE: +3 ????
BLACK: +5 ????
WHITE: +3 LAW
This message was last edited by the player at 00:38, Wed 10 June 2020.

In reply to Dragondog (msg # 85):

Sorry, just got back to the thread... I just rolled from left to right. My apologies if I wasn’t supposed to roll the resources for the historical event I rolled.

My 6 will actually go to Lands  --- so we have more than a barren domain

I just got back on as well and see things are moving quickly. Let me know if you need me to roll or contribute.

Gonna actually put my one into influence. That will make us almost as influential as House Arryn, which is huge.

In reply to Gray (msg # 91):

Meta:
I definitely want a 50 in defense... Winterfell, Dragonstone, Storm’s End, the Eyrie, and Riverrun are equivalent to a 50 defense.
If Orange and I both put our 1s into it, we can get that. Assuming none of our other house actions don’t mess with that.
This message was last edited by the player at 23:56, Tue 09 June 2020.

In reply to Blue (msg # 94):

I think you need to roll a 1d6 and add it to one of our house attributes. Any number ending with a 1 is treated as the next tier up (11, 21, 31, etc).  No more than 2 players can contribute to a single attribute.

And Brown, I've got a 2 to add somewhere. If we pair that with one of the 1's that could get us a Defense in the next tier.
This message was last edited by the player at 23:59, Tue 09 June 2020.

House before individual rolls:

Defense 48 - Excellent defenses, with man-made fortifications likely combined with defensible terrain features.
Influence 49 - Maximum Lord's Status 5. A powerful minor house with colorful history. Examples include House Florrent and House Frey.
Lands 13 - A small stretch of land, about the size of a single small island or small portion of a larger island, or a large city and its immediate environs, such as House Mormont.
Law 17 - Lawlessness and banditry are a problem along the fringes of your lands.
Population 13 - Small population but no single community larger than a small town.
Power 36 - A trained force of soldiers, including cavalry and possibly ships. You may have the service of a banner house.
Wealth 23 - Common. Your family has enough to get by.

Law has dropped since the founding.

Some of you have already rolled your individual dice and can assign it to the resource of your choice, or wait for others to roll and do so before you.

Depending on what you want to accomplish, Influence and Defense are the two resources easiest to "level up." And Lands and Population are the resources with the lowest scores.

Those of you who don't have the books and don't know how the various scores will influence the House, may want to ask those that do know or have the books about it.
This message had punctuation tweaked by the GM at 00:01, Wed 10 June 2020.

Defense needs 3 points to level up
Influence needs 2
Lands needs 8
Law needs 4
Population needs 8
Power needs 5
Wealth needs 8

20:03, Today: Blue rolled 6 using 1d6.

RE-EDITID: I'll add to to Wealth.
This message was last edited by the player at 00:27, Wed 10 June 2020.

This message was deleted by the player at 00:10, Wed 10 June 2020.

In reply to Blue (msg # 100):

If you put it into land, we would bump up to the next level and land takes forever in game to build.

This message was deleted by the player at 00:24, Wed 10 June 2020.

I know that some of you previously posted where they wanted their individual roll to go, anyone who has done so, other than Blue, please post again.

Land 6 Final Answer - apologies for the confusion.

+2 to Defense

Checking the dice roller, the following have rolled and not yet posted their assignment: Green (4), Brown (1), Red (6), and Gray (2). No other rolls were marked as stat adjustments.

That means everyone else, not counting Blue who already has posted, need to roll. And the group has to decide where you want to assign your rolls.

Normally that is done in order as you roll, but we're being nice here.

While I was writing this post, Red assigned his roll to Land, just as Blue did. Only one of those assignments is needed for Land to "level up." Do both of you still want to make your assignment to Land?

And Gray made his assignment to Defense.

We're all moving quickly. Keep Red's Land roll, I'll change mine back to Wealth, so we only need 2 points to move it up to the next level.
This message was last edited by the player at 00:27, Wed 10 June 2020.

Wasn't it standing at 13? Adding 6 to that would make it 19 and not enough for the next tier up.

Wow, I go to bed and I've to read half a book... it's a good sign for our game.

I'd like to put my 4 into Land, simply because I've a feeling that it's difficult to gain land through legal means.

Gold rolled 4 using 1d6.  Realm modifier. LAND

19:29, Today: Purple rolled 3 using 1d6.  Realm Modifier.

In reply to Dragondog (msg # 107):

My +1 for HSA will go to defense, confirmed.

20:30, Today: Black rolled 5 using 1d6.  Black House adjustment.

Want a better idea  where we stand before saying where to put it but am thinking Power to get to next level or maybe defense.

Any suggestions or preference from others on which we like better.

If  Power we might have Banner house  too

17:16, Today: White rolled 3 using 1d6.  House bonus

Law

If you add to Wealth it would lift us from Common to Prosperous.
This message was last edited by the player at 00:35, Wed 10 June 2020.

In reply to Black (msg # 113):

How about power? It's always good to have a strong army in Westeros, since we were rather fortunate with our starting rolls we might have been won our title through the strength of our arms. Holding out against the mountain clans long enough for reinforcement to arrive and as thanks we got a title and some land (would explain our rather small holding)

Might I suggest that everyone reserve their numbers until everyone has rolled? List the roll numbers and then advocate points then?

Yes i still want to assign to land. this would bring us up to 25


I know its next step but i'm Looking at the land holdings costs especially considering the massive castle we have. The following is not exhaustive of options its just why I still want to put my 6 in land.

Terrain types available in vale (each time its purchased 3 miles of land):
Hills cost 7
Mountains cost 9


Features we could possibly afford:

hamlet cost 10

Features that help facilitate trade (my emphasis not the game)
road cost 5
coast cost 3

Grassland cost 1

fresh water features (my emphasis not the game)
stream cost 1
river cost 3

I've been keeping a running tally on an earlier post.

In reply to Dragondog (msg # 107):

I rolled a one for stat adjustment. You missed me.

Defense 48 +2 (Gray) +1 (Brown) = 51
Influence 49
Lands 13 +6 (Red) +4 (Gold) = 23
Law 17 +3 (White)
Population 13
Power 36
Wealth 23 +6 (Blue)


Apparently I can't read. Land needs another +2 to "level up." And while I was working on this post, Gold fixed that.


Purple, as you didn't say what you're adding your +1 to, I'm assuming that you're waiting to decide.

Stats before player rolls:

Defense 48
Influence 49
Lands 13
Law 17
Population 13
Power 36
Wealth 23


RED: +6 Lands
ORANGE: +6 Influence
BROWN: +1 Defense
GRAY: +2 Defense
BLUE: +6 Wealth
GOLD: +4 Lands
PURPLE: +3 ????
BLACK: +5 Power
WHITE: +3 Law
GREEN: +4 ????
This message was last edited by the player at 00:59, Wed 10 June 2020.

In reply to Gray (msg # 119):

Yes, and thank you for trying to keep things in order. But we still have overlap and possible underplay for the best outcomes. For example, I could place my 3 and cover Defense. Gray’s 2 would level up Influence. Gold’s 4 would level up Law. Etc.
This message was last edited by the player at 00:42, Wed 10 June 2020.

Orange, I can see that you rolled 1d6 for something. But it doesn't say what it was for. Please roll again and explicitly state what it is for.

RED: +6 Lands
ORANGE: +1 Influence
BROWN: +1 Defense
GRAY: +2 Defense
BLUE: +6 Lands
GOLD: +4 LAW
PURPLE: +3 ????
BLACK: +5 ????
WHITE: +3 Law

Sorry, I didn’t notice blue, I’ll change mine to Law then
This message was last edited by the player at 00:50, Wed 10 June 2020.

Here it is six now, adding it to influence.

Blue spent his on wealth not land.

Thank you Orange.

Technically
Wealth, Land, Power, and Influence use the points spent on them as a resource in addition to increasing a level by increments of 10.

Some of these have variable costs: see my post above.

Defense 48 +2 (Gray) +1 (Brown) = 51
Influence 49 +6 (Orange)
Lands 13 +6 (Red) +4 (Gold) = 23
Law 17 +3 (White)
Population 13
Power 36
Wealth 23

Black +5
Purple +3
Green +4


Blue, as you didn't state what your 1d6 was for, you need to reroll.
This message was last edited by the GM at 00:56, Wed 10 June 2020.

In reply to Dragondog (msg # 128):

You're welcome, Dragondog.

Black 5 to power so we get more military assets.

Awesome, so it seems we are just missing Silver and Green?

I'm waiting to see if Silver will roll lower than me, because we only need 1 to increase Law

Defense 48 +2 (Gray) +1 (Brown) = 51
Influence 49 +6 (Orange)
Lands 13 +6 (Red) +4 (Gold) = 23
Law 17 +3 (White)
Population 13
Power 36 +5 (Black)
Wealth 23


Purple +3
Green +4


Blue, as you didn't state what your 1d6 was for, you need to reroll.

Blue edited his post and put it in Wealth.

Currently we have 6 points of overlap and 7 remaining  points that can’t level up anything.

I'm talking about the dice roller. When Blue rolled their 1d6, they didn't say that it was for stat modification or similar. They just rolled a naked 1d6. Thus it unfortunately means nothing. And we need a reroll from Blue.
This message was last edited by the GM at 01:06, Wed 10 June 2020.

In reply to Purple (msg # 137):

I think we can level up Law, which is 20 right now and needs to be 21 to lower the House Fortune penalty. Alternately, Power can always help

In reply to Purple (msg # 137):

I'd say we can put the remaining points in wealth and population (4 wealth, 3 Population)

Money is always good and even if we won't be "affluent" it can help us when organizing a tourney or something.

Edit: Let's put 3 in Law.. it's true that we need 21 in LAW to "level up"
This message was last edited by the player at 01:08, Wed 10 June 2020.

In addition to those two, we need rolls from Blue and Silver.

Sorry, you need a second roll from me?

I suggest

Defense 48 +3 (Purple) = 51
Influence 49 +2 (Gray) = 51
Land 13 +6 (Blue) +4 (Green)= 23
Law 17 +4 (Gold) = 21
Population 13 +6 (Red) +1 (Brown ) = 20
Power 36 +5 (Black) = 41
Wealth 23 +6 (Orange) +3 (White) = 32

*****Edited.

Probably missed a few. Better math minds welcome.
This message was last edited by the player at 01:45, Wed 10 June 2020.

21:17, Today: Blue rolled 2 using 1d6 ((2)).

Put it towards Land.

I was working on a post much similar to the one Purple just posted. So scratch that.

As for Blue, I need you to put a note in the dice roller regarding what the roll is for, such as stat modifier. Please roll 1d6 again with such a note. The note doesn't have to specify which resource, just that this is what it's for.
This message was last edited by the GM at 01:35, Wed 10 June 2020.

In reply to Blue (msg # 144):

At the bottom of the dice roller it says “reason for roll”
So, when you roll your 1d6, you need to fill that section out with “House Stat Modifier”  in order for your roll to count.

In reply to Dragondog (msg # 145):

What about silver? Does he/she still need to roll a HSM?

Seems that way.

Sorry there have been a lot of posts.  I didn't think I was rolling.  What roll do I need to do?

Sorry, so much was going on I got lost.


15:53, Today: Silver rolled 4 using 1d6.  Wealth.

Current assignments

Defense 48 +2 (Gray) +1 (Brown) = 51
Influence 49 +6 (Orange)
Lands 13 +6 (Red) +4 (Gold) = 23
Law 17 +3 (White)
Population 13
Power 36 +5 (Black)
Wealth 23 +4 (Silver)


Purple +3
Green +4
Blue ?


Purple has another suggestion (slightly edited).

Defense 48 +3 (Purple) = 51
Influence 49 +2 (Gray) = 51
Land 13
Law 17 +4 (Gold) = 21
Population 13
Power 36 +5 (Black) = 41
Wealth 23


Brown +1
White +3
Green +4
Silver +4
Red +6
Orange +6

Land, Population, and Wealth each need +8 to "level up." So depending on what holdings we want for the various resources, how we allocate the remaining rolls can give us more points to allocate where we need them.

 So how about some flavor to this history we've rolled?

Our first event involved our founder performing some great achievement that warranted a sharp increase to our militaristic power and overall influence, while also bringing a marginal increase in security and stability to what would become our lands.

Another event of note in our history involved yet another member of our now established household achieving greatness which again greatly added to our military might, but also in securing our lands from hostile forces. Likewise what they did brought some greater renown to our house.

And last we have our most recent occurence, be it due to a sickness of mind or body, someone of power in our house was driven mad. Whatever they did led to rampant lawlessness, as well as a loss of loyal populace and a diminishing of our forces and influence in the courts. However, we did acquire a modicum of expansion to our lands and overall wealth.


I've actually got an idea regarding the last one. That perhaps the steward or lord or whoever tried to tax and take from the people, but it ultimately led to a violent revolt. The people turned to banditry and guerrilla tactics killing our guards and soldiers. In the end, we had to seek aid from House Arryn to quell hostilities, which while successful still lost us standing with our liege lord.

Technically event two and three were rolled out of order. So the madness result is the second event. But that doesn't invalidate your suggestion about that event.

In reply to Gray (msg # 152):

I'm not sure losing standing with House Arryn would fit when Influence is our best stat!

The madness event resulted in a loss of Influence. Not a lot, but some.

What if the ancestor made a deal with the mountain tribes but something went wrong that led to a battle which cost many lives considering the closeness of the negations to being complete and a feast between the two factions being held? But one of the mountain groups continued to have close ties with us, hence the connection for the player who wants to become a bannerman

Wasn't the GM against multiple houses?

Hmm.
So much for filling in the gaps. I suppose that White may decide on a different role in that case.

Multiple houses as in multiple and unrelated stories, yes I would not like running two separate and unrelated houses.

But we're running one house and one house can invest in one or more banner houses as power holdings. Though a banner house would be half of our Power score.

Ah, so there is hope for White’s concept yet.

Perhaps the banner house could be done during the “next” round of investing?

I like the idea of our ancestor defending a stretch of land against the mountain clans, hence he got a title and was able to build a castle on it.

In reply to Gold (msg # 161):

I like that idea.

I see our founder being one of the heroes of Andal landing, loyal liege to Arryn who may have even been tied to his House by marriage and had some significant victories against Yorwyck VI Royce. Mad Lord might have faced a series of bloody rebellions but also managed to win some of the land from rival Lords. He was known for his cruelty and it made population drop. Last Glory might be service of our House in the Robert's rebellion, when we managed to defeat some of the lower Houses that were loyal to Mad King and thus secure our holds further.

The only scores that change enough to "level up" or "level down" during the madness is Law and Power that both "level down." There is some fluctuation in the other scores, but nothing that has any effect on the House.

That may indicate that if our House has a banner house, it is a recent addition. And if the second Glory event was during Robert's rebellion, it was very recent.

Yes, it would probably be the feat of Head of House or their father.

Sounds logical on all counts.

I was reading up on the Andal Invasion and apparently the Andals landed in the Vale. And as mentioned by Orange your ancestor may have fought Royce. Perhaps even led the first victory against the King's forces. And depending on where you want your lands, you could be one of House Royce's neighbors. Your lands having been taken from theirs.

We'd be near Gulltown if that is the case. Runestone is in the Southeast of the Vale a bit to the North of the Bay of Crabs.

During the madness there were military losses and a rise in lawlessness as has been described. Perhaps a civil war/revolt as suggested by Gray. Perhaps some conflicts with other lords, as suggested by Orange, that ended up with the House gaining as much land as they lost. Perhaps winning lands that the rival lord took back or vice versa. Or we lost some of ours and took some of theirs. Or perhaps both happened and that House went to war on multiple fronts, both internally and externally.

I'm just throwing some ideas around based on what you have already said.

Yes, in that case we would be near Gulltown. But the Ancestor could have been instrumental in the victory at the Battle of the Seven Stars and the House could be located just about anywhere. There are many options.

So in between Runestone and Gulltown?

Or maybe on the easternmost part of the same penninsula in case port is desired.

Any more/other suggestions on what happened in your history?

Are we following Purple's suggestion in reordering where the individual rolls are assigned for greater effect?



It could be inbetween Runestone and Gulltown. It could be on a nearby coastline. If you want river instead of coastline, it may be near Heart's Home or Strongsong.

I am OK with purple's optimal reordering. In the end I want that six to matter.

He was against starting with 2 active lords in 2 separate houses, but is open to a situation where a player driven 2nd house could emerge later. Thus, bannerhouse with an heir or, sponsor and taking Landed later.

Do we have any who desire to run their own ships? If not, coastline or river access either one is good for me.

Blue and Black talked about the Iron Islands, so there may be some interest there.

To get a small fleet of Trained Warships you have to invest 10 Power "points." If Green is sufficient, you only need to invest 8.

And if we want a Port, so that merchant ships can come to your lands, you need a coastline. Adding a Marketplace too will have synergy effects. Coastline "costs" 3 Land "points" and Port and Marketplace "cost" 10 Wealth "points" each.

With the level castle we have I think we should have at least one garrison Unit, if not two. We have so little land that an elite and a trained regiment would be impregnable.
That would total 16 power. If we have a banner house, their troops could be used mostly in external conflicts if our defensive forces could help in any clansmen flare up

If we look at the resources we have already "leveled up."

Defense 51 - Extraordinary defenses with structures, walls, and terrain features that, when combined, make attacking this land very costly.

Influence 51 - Maximum Lord's Status 6. A major house. Examples include House Tully and House Martell.

Law 21 - The typical level of Law throughout much of Westeros. Crime is common but not out of control.

Power 41 - A large force of diverse, trained, and competent soldiers. You probably also have the services of a small navy as well. Several banner houses are sworn to you.


These texts are descriptive. Looking at the number of banner houses as an example, you can afford four banner houses and if you do, you have no other Power assets at all!

Defense:
Castle 40
Tower 10

Influence:
First-Born Son 20
First-Born Daughter 10

Land:
Hills 7
Coast 3
Hamlet 10
Light Woods/Ruins/River all 3
--The land is a small, hilly, coastal valley between the arms of the mountains.  The only easily accessible routes of entry are a path through the mountains guarded by a tower, and the coast.  The banner house would also be a guard on the mountain pass.

Power:
Banner House 20
leaves 21 for units for an example of costs, an Elite Garrison is only 9 power, a Trained is 5.  Trained Archers is 6

Wealth:
This gets tricky.  You can start with a Port, but a market needs a small town.

--At work right now.  I will try to go through wealth holdings when I get a chance but thought some of this could help with discussions.

In reply to Purple (msg # 156):

I was thinking that the madness would have maybe resulted in a marriage to one of the mountain clan chiefs... since it lost us influence, but we gained land. (It could also contribute to the loss in Law)
This message was last edited by the player at 14:12, Wed 10 June 2020.

Here we have White suggestion on how to invest some of the resources.

We have Land at 13 right now, but with room for growth depending on what rolls we assign to that resource. It can become no higher than 25. So we'd have to choose between Light Woods, Ruins, and River.

As we only have one plot of land, do we want one or two defensive structures? White suggested two, but I know someone wanted a Supeerior Castle.

White suggests investing Influence in two children. Do we have more than two people who want to be the children of the lord?

Do we want Warships?

And before we decide on Wealth holdings, I need to pick up that supplement or we'll have to take core elements only.

Someone talked about being  a Maester, that requires a 10 point Wealth investment.

You're right about the Marketplace, I didn't look at the requirements before I posted.


Brown, the madness was the second event, not the third as they were rolled out of order. The madness "leveled down" Law and Power. The others may have fluctuated, but had no real effect. As I have posted earlier.

I would prefer two female heirs in case I'd be playing a heir but if firstborn son is someone's only concept I am ready to change.

Who would occupy that separate tower? Any ideas?

I'm having trouble keeping up with where we are, and don't want to slow the process for the ones doing such a good job at driving.

Resource roll: 10:20, Today: Blue rolled 4 using 1d6 ((4)).

Where will it do us the most good at this point? Wealth?
This message was last edited by the player at 14:23, Wed 10 June 2020.

In reply to Orange (msg # 183):

A garrison unit/guard commander. A sorcerer Anyone from a pc to an npc guard could be there.

I have mentioned a desire to play the male heir. Green has expressed a desire to play a daughter. Someone else expressed a desire to play a second son.

The numbers for the Influence spending were just a quick thing from memory.  We have enough to have a few sons/daughters.

White suggests Lands at 23, which would "level up" Lands to "A modest stretch of land or medium-sized island, such as House Frey."


Defense 48 +3 (Purple) = 51
Influence 49 +2 (Gray) = 51
Lands 13 +6 (Red) +4 (Green) = 23
Law 17 +4 (Gold) = 21
Population 13
Power 36 +5 (Black) = 41
Wealth 23


Brown +1
White +3
Blue +4
Silver +4
Orange +6

We can spend 8 or 9 points on Population and Wealth.

And Browns +1 can be assigned to Defense, Influence, Law, or Power.

Gold expressed a desire to play a male child, I believe his first choice was the heir too.

In reply to Dragondog (msg # 188):

If he's male, he is probably a heir then. Well, we'll see if we can arrange something between ourselves then.
This message was last edited by the player at 14:34, Wed 10 June 2020.

Part of my character concept involves investing in a trade with a resource we have at hand, this allows me to grow our money. My request is to have a feature in our domain that provides some trade good.

If we want a port which requires a small town - we could dip into the Prosperity book
Training Inn cost 10 wealth requires river or road: +1 on house fortune rolls, grants 1 unit +2 Defense
  -Growth Improvement cost 5 wealth - Counts as a small town for requirements for 2 other holdings.
Port - 10 Weath

If no maester this works 25 wealth spent. We get a port for anyone that wants ships and for having trade. Trading inns are not typically near defense in the rules so we may need a hills domain as will with the river or coast feature.

Red, unfortunately, we cannot afford a Small Town. Nor can we afford a second domain. Fortunately, a Port requires a coastline, not a Small Town. But a Marketplace does require a Small Town.


Orange, when I talk about an heir, I talk about the first born son. Not the lord's children in general, which I understand can be confusing.

In reply to White (msg # 180):

Why would we have a castle and a tower on the tiny bit of land we have? I would much rather have one Supeerior Castle on par with Winterfell.
This message was last edited by the player at 15:38, Wed 10 June 2020.

In reply to Brown (msg # 192):

For me it is about the aesthetics of the stories.  That level of castle would be a well known, famous castle.  Hard to justify (in my creative mind) having that level of castle when it isn't on the maps.  I know we are creating our own story, so I can deal with it.  It just doesn't jive well.  Plus, from a realistic standpoint.  if you have multiple entrances to your land, you will defend those points.  In this case, a mountain pass with a tower becomes a first line of defense vs raiders and/or invaders.

However, I am fine with whatever is decided.  :-)

If we are getting into spending our resources now, keep in mind Influence can be used for things other than noble family. Also for Power, troops can be purchased with multiple types for more diverse skillsets (scout archers, raider cavalry, etc).

We are officially still on assigning scores to the resources.

I'm copy pasting the following from a previous post:



Defense 48 +3 (Purple) = 51
Influence 49 +2 (Gray) = 51
Lands 13 +6 (Red) +4 (Green) = 23
Law 17 +4 (Gold) = 21
Population 13
Power 36 +5 (Black) = 41
Wealth 23


Brown +1
White +3
Blue +4
Silver +4
Orange +6

We can spend 8 or 9 points on Population and Wealth.

And Browns +1 can be assigned to Defense, Influence, Law, or Power.

I good with going for an arrangement that gives us more bang for our buck.

Okay so if Silver and a Blue donate to Population, that brings it up to 21.
If Orange and White donate to Wealth that brings it up to 32.
Would Brown’s 1 be best for Influence or Power?

Let us add 9 and 8 to population and wealth.

8 on Pop, 9 on Wealth, 1 on Power

In reply to White (msg # 193):

I still want one defendable fortress with the land resources we have. Story wise, if people are going to talk about a stronghold in the Vale... it’s going to be the Eyrie. I’m good with our house basically being the Fort Knox of the vale with either a silver, gold, or precious gems mine. If we had more land... I could be persuaded to give up on the Superior Castle dream (a superior castle has several towers, structures, and smaller buildings all surrounded by a steep curtain wall and likely a moat as well).

It seems that the final tally is:

* Defense 48 +3 (Purple) = 51 - Extraordinary defenses with structures, walls, and terrain features that, when combined, make attacking this land very costly.
* Influence 49 +2 (Gray) = 51 - Maximum Lord's Status 6. A major house. Examples include House Tully and House Martell.
* Lands 13 +6 (Red) +4 (Green) = 23 - A modest stretch of land or medium-sized island, such as House Frey.
* Law 17 +4 (Gold) = 21 - The typical level of Law throughout much of Westeros. Crime is common but not out of control.
* Population 13 + 4 (Blue) + 4 (Silver) = 21 - Typical population. Most smallfolk live on farmsteads or in hamlets, but you might have a couple of small towns and a community around your primary fortification.
* Power 36 +5 (Black) +1 (Brown) = 42 - A large force of diverse, trained, and competent soldiers. You probably also have the services of a small navy as well. Several banner houses are sworn to you.
* Wealth 23 +6 (Orange) +3 (White) = 32 - Prosperous. Your family has the funds to live in accordance with their station.

Does anyone have a problem with the above tally?

Looks good.

Red, I can't find either Training Inn or Growth Improvement by searching the pdf. Are they called something else?

Looks great!

The Out of Strife, Prosperity pdf points out that even if you don't have the Mine Holding, you can still have a mine. It's just that the operation of that mine isn't significant enough to do anything but to contribute to the baseline prosperity of the Domain.

So essentially, its just a mine for flavor and little mechanical value.  Maybe if we decide to buy the actual Wealth feature for a mine, it could be like an especially rich vein was uncovered if not a new mine all together.

Just to bring it back up on the surface again, we still need to decide what the historical events actually mean. We have had a couple of suggestions from Gray, Purple, Gold, Silver, Orange, and me.

In summary:

Either the Ancestor fought the Hill Tribes or the First Men to gain his lands and titles.

The Mad Ancestor then lost a substantial portion of their military might as the land descended into lawlessness, perhaps because of revolt/rebellion/war/marriage.

And during Robert's Rebellion the House became what it is today. Perhaps gaining a Banner House from among the Hill Tribes, if you want to spend resources on that.
This message was last edited by the GM at 17:27, Wed 10 June 2020.

Yes, if we don't buy the Holding, it's just for flavor. Perhaps we're raising horses, but not enough to sell them to anyone. Then we raise horses, but we don't have the Holding. And no one else would buy them from us.

And yes, if we later invest in a mine holding, perhaps we have put more of an effort into the mine or we found a rich vein or a new mine.

The Vale is also supposed to have great soil, we could produce some kind of special wine or crop.

I misspelled "Trading Inn"

Trading inn pg 34 Out of Strife, Prosperity (OoSP) with Growth improvement

Port pg. 32 OoSP

I am glad you mentioned that, Gray.

I say, “Let the grape grabbers of the Reach have their wine, Silverswift whiskey wins the world!”

They will love us everywhere.

Hahahaha. Finest moonshine brewers in the Seven Kingdoms.We can put still on our crest.

I support this endeavor.
This message was last edited by the player at 17:22, Wed 10 June 2020.

Is Silverswift the name we are going with?
This message was last edited by the player at 17:13, Wed 10 June 2020.

In reply to Dragondog (msg # 208):

My suggestion was that the decent into lawlessness came from the mad ancestor marrying one of the mountain clansmen (clanswomen) and let the new in laws get away with a little too much.

I like it, and there were no other suggestions.

We are going to have a craftsman also, Black has the trader benefit and will use it to be a metalworker/weapon-smith.

A bastard born smith and fighter.

Just need to know whether we will be having port or something for ships or just use like caravans etc for goods.

I like the idea about the mountain clan  mixing, I might even of spent some of my time with the clans to get out of the way etc.
This message was last edited by the player at 17:16, Wed 10 June 2020.

In reply to Black (msg # 218):

I don't know the Trader benefit off hand, is that the same as having the artisan Wealth feature?

In reply to Gray (msg # 215):

I like it too, and what Orange said. If someone else has something, we can always consider, but Silverswift has a nice ring to it.

Trade is a benefit that gives you the ability to be a craftsman and make money.

Looking at the Port in Out of Strife, Prosperity, I note that it has been completely changed. It now requires a Small Town, but can be built on a River as well as a Coastline. And the benefits are less than half of those listed in the core rules. And there is no synergy with having a Market Place. But things like Maesters and Mines do have synergy with the Marketplace.

Investing 15 Wealth Points on an improved Trading Inn would make it count as a Small Town for two Wealth Holdings. Each additional investment of 5 Wealth points would allow for two more Wealth holdings that needed a Small Town.

I was expecting new holdings, not new rules. So, now that we know that the rules change if we introduce Out of Strife, Prosperity, do we want to do that so that we can gain the new holdings too? Or do we remain with the core?

Brown, I've added that to my summary.

So, how do we proceed from here?

I'm still asking questions about that. See post 222 for more.
This message was last edited by the GM at 17:34, Wed 10 June 2020.

In reply to Dragondog (msg # 222):

About prosperity I have no particular opinion. I'd let that be GM's call completely.

In reply to Dragondog (msg # 222):

For simplicity's sake, I kind of just want to stick to the core book. But I'll abide the majority vote.

In reply to Dragondog (msg # 222):

I would prefer to use it due to the discussion on the clan/banner house you and I are having.  The main holding I wanted for that is in the OoSP book.

Let me throw in another question about Defense holdings. Superior Castle OR Castle and Tower?

In reply to Dragondog (msg # 229):

Superior Castle. We want the castle that reflects our influence.

 Superior castle could be fitting for amount of influence, but lack of actual controlled land. We could always build towers and the like as we gain more domains.

EDIT: Does all of our Defense have to be spent during house creation, or can we bank it for later?
This message was last edited by the player at 17:57, Wed 10 June 2020.

We can bank them for later.

That might be cause to hold off on the superior castle at start as well then. Give us some wiggle room for when we expand our domains, having enough defense already available to start building stuff there.

In reply to Gray (msg # 233):

No, there's no point to banking Defense. Looking a the building time for the castles; it's years and years. As a practical matter, we'd never use it.

Can features be upgraded, out of curiosity?  Like, can we turn our hamlet into a small town later, and would it be full cost or just the difference between the two?

In reply to Green (msg # 234):

I don't mean necessarily more castles, but the lower cost defense features still offer something.

I have seen no building time for Land features, such as towns. Obviously it takes time for communities to grow, but there's nothing listed as far as I can see.

Perhaps the ancestor fought off the First Men to gain his lands and titles. Then the Hill Tribes decided to take advantage of the lack of threat from the First Men and the building of the new holdings keeping everyone off their game. The ancestor fell ill and his heir fell to madness from whatever poison they encountered.
This message was last edited by the player at 18:12, Wed 10 June 2020.

An interesting suggestion Purple, using both suggestions.

The Andal Invasion was millenia ago. So if three interesting things have happened to the House over that time, the probability of two being that close seems small. But it is still a possibility.

The original inhabitants of the Vale area were First Men, the Clans are the remnants of the defeated first men.

In reply to Gray (msg # 236):

Frame of reference: A single domain is able to be crossed by walking in only 3 hours.
Is the recommendation for two defense holdings because the banner house would take the second?

From the Campaign Guide, the ascent to the Eyrie has 3 waycastles on the way.
Stone: "Thick walled keeps with two towers" I guess a Hall 20 Defense
Snow: "composed of a single fortified tower" likely a tower 10 Defense
Sky: "it's misleading to call Sky a castle. It's nothing more than a high cresent-shaped wall of unmortared stone built against the side of the Giant's Lance"  5 Defense ?
Eyrie: "is a small castle by the standards of the great houses of Westeros" 30 Defense

"This path is normally traversed by sure-footed mules, and visitors may require a knowledgeble guide. ... It takes a full day to ascend to the Eyrie from the Gates of the Moon..."

Mountain travel without a path is 1/4 movement. I assume it would count as trackless because it requires a guide if you don't want to fall to your deaths.

Walking is normally 1 league an hour

12 hours of walking time from the bloody gates to the Eyrie would be roughly 1 domain.

Apologies if this seems scattered but I wanted to put the suggestion in a frame of reference.

Thanks for pointing that out White.

In reply to Red (msg # 241):

In answer to that initial question.  No.  The Banner House rolls its own attributes and can build a defense holding from that.

The Castle and Tower are strictly because I don't like adding huge castles that should be known and talked about, to the game world.  Strictly a personal thing that I acknowledge and can deal with if I am out voted.  For me it is just hard to justify how a random house would have a castle that should be known (ie Winterfell, Harrenhal, etc) but isn't.

So long story short...it is just a quirk of the person behind the keyboard!  :-)

In reply to White (msg # 243):

Just a reminder that we are House similar in powers to Tully's and Martells and not a random House. We are major movers and shakers that left little mark in history yet only because we didn't roll many events and kept to ourselves. :)

In reply to Orange (msg # 244):

Yeah, this. We've got the influence to make a difference.  But one of the boons and banes of being in the Mountains of the Moon is isolation. We kind of stick to our own communities whether we like it or not, haha

In reply to Orange (msg # 244):


Yes, that is another pet peeve about the system(introducing houses that should be known but aren't due to random rolls) that I can get over because we are playing a game. lol  I just have my quirks but I try not to let them over rule story.

Any ideas on the name of the castle? If we are building it on the top of the mountain it could be Summithall or Silverpeak or Silverarch.

Kind of amusing that Orange is wanting everything to be Silver.  Heheh

White's suggestion was to build it in a hilly area. Setting your lands in the mountains will be more expensive.

In reply to Gray (msg # 248)
Well, can our other color be orange? :D

Silverhills already exists. Silverarch would still work.

 If we are building it on the coast as many seemed interested in, then it could be at the peak of cliff overlooking the sea.

In reply to Gray (msg # 251):

That would luke nice. Swiftport might also work if we will call our hamlet a port. :)

Talking about ports. We could have a port, but it would add nothing to our House. If we have a Port holding, they work differently if we use the core rules or the extra rules. So if you haven't weighed in on which we should use, please do so.

I vote for using the expanded rules in OoSP

Cliffhanger Castle.
Hillsguard.
McDonald’s.

As we are talking about children in the other thread, how many children do we want to invest in?

Is that question directed to me?

It is directed at everyone.

Zero legitimate sons, lots of daughters gets my vote :).

I think that depends on how many players want to be children of the Hoh and if the new HoH believes in political marriages and such.

Personally, I do not believe in political marriage unless it is by the consent of the one to be married.

In reply to Purple (msg # 260):

Whoever wants to play children (myself included) should cut some kind of agreement.

So you agree that I get to be HoH if I don’t marry you off?

In reply to Purple (msg # 262):

You can try and marry me off. If there's a conflict we will RP it.

 Bah, embrace the drama. If the HoH tries to marry you off, fight it and make it an interesting point of contention if that is what your character would do.

EDIT: I'm cool with a couple kids of the house bloodline. But I definitely want to save some Influence for courtly currency.
This message was last edited by the player at 21:14, Wed 10 June 2020.

One more thing: I imagined my character being about 18. Don't know if you considered your character old enough to have child that age. If not, I can shift things around to become Lady of the House, maybe.

I thought I would be the brother stepping into fathers shoes and you being either the older sister or nearest younger sister to advise me. And to look out for our delicate sister Green.

That works too. So no wife and no children for now, from your side? Also, who did you envision as our mother? I was thinking Dornish maybe? Or since we don't have a Septon, we might have been raised by Northern mother and adopted the faith in Old Gods?

Wherever you get your rebellious nature from. I am sure our mother was a firebrand.

Could've been a mountain woman!

In reply to White (msg # 269):

From the weird bannerclan hahahaha.

I vote for Superior Castle.

In reply to Purple (msg # 268):

I'd go for Dornish noblewoman for now, but leave it open in chance someone wants to play the mother who might still be alive.

In reply to Purple (msg # 266):

Thank you!

In reply to Purple (msg # 271):

Seconded

I guess I should pick lighter-haired character if we all are supposed to be related.

In reply to Green (msg # 273):

Here. Now someone might consider us sisters.

If I understand correctly, we can invest 35 influence into having an heir, a second born son, and multiple other siblings. Any reason not to do that? What do we do with the remaining Influence?

In reply to Purple (msg # 276):

Gives us bonus in intrigues and we can convert it into something else.

Thank you. And nice pic. :)

I do like all of this thinking too :

Land:
Hills 7
Coast 3
Hamlet 10
Light Woods/Ruins/River all 3
--The land is a small, hilly, coastal valley between the arms of the mountains.  The only easily accessible routes of entry are a path through the mountains guarded by a tower, and the coast.  The banner house would also be a guard on the mountain pass.

Power:
Banner House 20
leaves 21 for units for an example of costs, an Elite Garrison is only 9 power, a Trained is 5.  Trained Archers is 6

In reply to Purple (msg # 278):

I'd take Mountain instead of hills and coast and taken important river. Kinda feels wrong to be in the Vale and not to play on the Mountain. :)

We're can't afford all that. We only have 23 points to invest.

In reply to Orange (msg # 279):

There is actually a lot of area in the Vale that is not mountain.

Hamlet 10
Mountains 9
River 3
Grassland 1

With all the white hair, I get the feeling that there is Targaryen blood in your veins too.

Orange, depending on what rules we use, having either instead of coastline may mean that we don't have a Port.

How long before more features could be added?

You can skip the House Fortune roll two out off three months for a +1 to one resource. The rules unfortunately doesn't give times to change Land holdings. As if they don't change.

In reply to Dragondog (msg # 283):

And Madness.Family definitely has a Targaryen somewhere...

In reply to Purple (msg # 285):

About the only way to add land is conquest...maybe marriage, or having it gifted to you.

In reply to White (msg # 288):

One can buy it as well?

That is +1 per skipped roll. It seems as if it's there or not. Communities don't grow. And no one builds roads.

Maybe, if another family was desperate enough to need to sell.

So not in set mechanics like House creation, but by role play?

That is a mechanical choice made by the head of house.

If the Head of household is wanting to manage the house I will play something besides a steward.

My bad. The rules say you must choose, I assumed that meant the head of house.  But perhaps it is the group. If there is a House Fortune roll it is made by the steward.

We should focus on getting a maester instead of ports and inns and whatnot. There'll be time for that and if someone gets hurt, port won't help much.

So for every 200 gold dragons, we can increase a resource by +1.
Merchants and Mercenaries!

Soon there'll be Lannisters to raid, ahahaha

Some players were interested in the sea and may disagree. I'm just bringing it up for that reason. You are the ones who have to decide on how to invest your resources.

Also, we shouldn't forget that banner clan gets their own resources to allocate. They might they what we cannot afford.

If you decide to invest in a banner house.

In reply to Dragondog (msg # 301):

No one was against that so far.

So two sons and two daughters requires an investment of 45 Influence points. More than I thought when I made my comments about more daughters. Ate we saving the rest?

Nor have we officially come to the point where we decide Power holdings. And everyone hasn't had a say yet.

For now we have:

1.Purple as young head oh house
2.Green and I as his sisters

No sons and daughters were defined so far.

Last I heard,  Purple was a son. And so is Gold.

I think they are saying daddy died recently and purple was just elevated.

In reply to Purple (msg # 266):

Purple said son or Head of House depending if the legendary Head of House is living or not. Since you are saying you have no use for last legendary Head of House alive, we kinda assumed he is head. We hadn't heard from Gold in a while so I forgot what he suggested.

That hasn't happened yet. And we don't know that it will or even that Purple would be the one to take over. We haven't gotten to the point of assigning roles yet.

What I said was if a PC was the glorious one, there would be nowhere for him to go. I didn't say that an NPC couldn't fill that role.

And if a PC was heard of House he would need the permission of three narrator and the other players.

And if you think you can have four family members and not invest any Influence,  that's not going to happen.

Honestly, let's just start assigning roles and be through with it. Some of us have ideas, we developed them, are developing relationships... It makes little sense being there at a standstill just because someone might have had different idea 15 pages ago. In one similar game, everyone who played just added one House aspect in  order that was determined by a die roll. Here, I feel like I am constantly being stonewalled by "what if someone does something else..." and I am not sure what are we waiting for.

In reply to Dragondog (msg # 309):

Who said that?

People, What happened to the tally I tried to get going?
What happened here where people shout out stuff without answering the previous question?
We are 11 players and planned on posting every 2-3 days. If you post 3 pages worth of messages in a day then of course you'll miss or forget those that have expressed their wishes.



This was the last message, so we have
Gold who would like to be the heir or the second born of the house,
Orange who would like to be the only daughter of the house (slightly mentally unstable)
Green who would like to be the daughter focusing on courtly matters.

If everyone still agrees with what they posted then its clear how many family members we have (Though we're still short a couple of players)
So how about we continue with this list and it will be much easier to see who wants what.
This message was last edited by the player at 00:23, Thu 11 June 2020.

There are a lot of players. Everyone isn't here as much as some. This process takes time. This is the first time I'm doing this. It's a learning bug process too.

As they are not here,  I see it as my responsibility to look out for them. To make sure this is a collaborative effort and not just controlled by those who spend the most to be here.

And for Influence holdings, you pay for children.  I said there were four requiring an investment of 45 points.  You said there were none. How else could I interpret that?

We still don't know what to do with Head of House. If Purple is head, then we are either at one heir, his son played by Gold,or with Purple and us as his three siblings(probably very young). I assumed the latter, but then GM said we might have NPC head, which changes arrangement everyone seemed satisfied with.

According to book, you pay for sons and daughters not brothers and sisters. I understood Purple wanted to play head of House and operated under that assumption, because you as a GM never objected to it. That's how you should have interpreted that, instead of accusing me of trying to cheat you out of some house points :).

I guess we have to decide on who plays the head of the House are they married/do they have children and then invest first and then work on allocating resources. Or you could ask from everyone to submit their concepts and if there's overlap accept those who you consider more interesting. There's too much misunderstandings.

As for posting frequencies, we are in a dynamic period now where everyone is raring to go. That contributes to the post bloat and I feel we gotta have some kind of structure as to how to proceed. We cannot at the same time debate Head of House, number of reduced attributes, number of children, ports and whatnot. So I suggest taking it role by role, thing by thing. And once someone is accepted in a role, once we we move one.

I've been trying to take one thing at a time, but as everyone isn't on at the same time, so discussions are put on hold so that everyone can give their input. And so that those that are here can do something other than wait, I have started other discussions.  All so that we can start playing as soon as possible.

I have always seen the four of you as siblings. Children of the head of house. I have never seen Purple as the head of house. So there was never anything top object to.

And I agree there ate to much misunderstandings.

So we desire to invest 45 Influence in heirs :

1 Purple as first son, and heir
2 Gold as second son
3 Orange as first daughter
4 Green as second daughter

With remaining Influence to be banked.

Does anyone have plans varying from this?
This message was last edited by the player at 04:49, Thu 11 June 2020.

In reply to Purple (msg # 317):

I was planning on being a Ward from another house so I am happy with that.

In reply to Silver (msg # 318):

Ooh, how long are you thinking of having been with us?

I was waiting to see the house history fleshed out before making that decision.

I would think a few years minimum.

I believe black wanted to be a bastard. So I would like to have been a part of the house long enough for us two start the game as friends, given black is willing.

Looks good to me. If there's no change then I'll send a group message to Purple, Orange and Green where we can talk about the details.

I was thinking that my house is on the coast in the bay of crabs.   The reason for my character being taken as a ward is the my house had been a dishonest trading partner.  My character would have been taken as an insurance that the deals above board.

In reply to Purple (msg # 317):

I do. Like I said, I would prefer to have PC head of House and I would like to be start as female heir. Since I have a finished concept and all, I guess I want to have a say in this as much as others. But I have a feeling that whatever I say is ignored and redacted by GM anyway so be it.

Edit: I might apply to be the heir or Lady of the banner house if GM is OK with us having a banner house.
This message was last edited by the player at 08:03, Thu 11 June 2020.

Feel free. In the meantime, I look forward to the discussion thread that Gold has mentioned.

In reply to Purple (msg # 325):

Sure, see you there.

Orange, even with a PC head of house, there is still another male of the house, that in this area would be heir before your character. I understand that you want to be a female heir. Unfortunately, as the world is set up, that is not going to happen when there is a possible male heir.

It's unfortunate that you feel that I ignore you. That is not what I want or do at all. I try to keep all the players interests in mind.

If the group invests in a banner house, you have a banner house.

I am sorry that we got off on the wrong foot. That was not what I wanted at all.

All I wanted for the house creation was that all players would get their voice heard. That all players would be included in the decision making process. And that we would end up with a House that we all could be proud of.

I'll just go in order because there is lots of ground to cover. First of all I am happy to be in your game, I think you are doing something that is hard to do (game with 11 players, house creation game and your first game of ASOIAF to boot) and potential problems are expected. I never wanted to be a problem player but several instances of communications made me feel picked on:

1. I was one of the first ayers that suggested playing a female heir. With more or less finished sheet. When I pointed that out, it was seen as "limiting options of others". Why was I the one  singled out, when I made that concept before I knew anyone else had intention of playing it instead of others being told that there is already someone who proposed that proposal?

2. I explicitly wrote that Purple and I were throwing idea around of him being hair of House. You ignored previous conversation that happened, nixed itand accused me of wanting children without spending anything.

3.Every time I propose something it is nitpicked upon. Mountain and hamlet are first too expensive, when I suggest spent that isn't it is nicked because unnamed someone wants coast? So what? River and coast cost the same? Both can have harbors. Same with mercury mine. I thought it was nice story idea, like many others that were proposed, but suddenly the economy regarding supply and demand for mercury in Westeros is brought into question. My head of House who had glory days during the Robert's rebellion suddenly becomes unplayable because you don't know what to do with glorious character but we are not allowed to have him dead either, it seems... I don't get it. I'd like to be able to throw ideas around without GM saying: that was not decided and moving to the next thing,that buries the previous discussion in bunch of posts.

If you believe I am being unfair or somehow trying to "hijack" the game, tell me and I will post in a different manner. I tend to be outspoken and opinionated, but I believe I am easy to talk to.

Now, if you're saying you had no intention getting on my bad side, I'll let the matter drop and believe this was all unfortunate miscommunication due to the chaos of having bunch of people posting all the time.
This message was last edited by the player at 13:51, Thu 11 June 2020.

In reply to Orange (msg # 328):

I will address only point 3.  The issue is that people have expressed an interest in certain things, ie coast for ships.  The only issue with Mountain/hamlet is the 2 extra cost for the mountain which then limits options.  If I get a chance, while I am working, I will try to throw together a few ideas and options...but we didn't roll a lot of land and that is very limiting.

I don't think, and I hope, that I didn't say or do anything to add to your feelings of being nitpicked!  :)

You personally did not. The plan with hills had both coast and ruins/river. We can still have mountain and coast of we drop the ruins/river thing.
This message was last edited by the player at 14:01, Thu 11 June 2020.

I'm sorry Orange, I don't want you or anyone feeling that way. That is the opposite of what I have been trying to achieve.

And never having done this before, mistakes have and will be made again, I'm sure. Please feel free to point those out.

The "limiting options for others" came from other players, not me. And I know someone made the point that all choices limit the options for others.

Unfortunately, the setting and the core rules are quite clear on female heir outside of Dorne.

I'm sorry for my mistakes and misunderstandings which unfortunately led me to see things as if they had been in a state other than what you had intended.

I have sometimes been posting from my tablet and its spell checker is atrocious and I don't catch all the mistakes.

In regards to the hill/mountain issue, I found two posts I made. One merely stating that one was more expensive than the other, having no intention with that comment to limit your or the group's choice of where to place your home. And the second was that depending on the rule set we choose to use, a coastline could be preferrable to a river if you wanted a Port. Again, not to nitpick or to limit your options, but to inform how some choices would affect options. So that you and all of you could freely make the choices you want to make.

As for Mr Glorious, I don't see him as a starting character. I see him as someone who has had a long and productive life. Someone who has earned experience throughout his life and that would be more powerful than the rest of you. And as I've said earlier, I have no problem with a PC being the head of house, as long as that PC isn't Mr. Glorious.

Having a house based on the siblings of the Head of House is new to me and all I can say about how I handled that is that I wasn't thinking clearly and I'm sorry about that. It was way past my bedtime (and yes, I've been old enough to set my own bedtime since the last millenium).


I'm sorry. I didn't mean for things to go wrong, but they did. Let's fix it.

How do you suggest that we go about the house creation, what's left of house creation, so that everyone is happy, every player has input, we don't miss out on what players think is important and that they at least get a chance of having that included in the House, even if the group in the end chooses to go in another direction?



I hope I covered everything, let me know if there is something else you want me to address.

I accept your apology and I totally get it. It's been chaotic and play by post groups here aren't usually hectic like this one, so it is easy to feel a bit lost. So, let us drop this and move things in a different direction.

First of all, I guess there should be a vote on who do we want as Head of House: Mr. Glorious, his son, or someone else (as Grey pointed out maybe it wasn't head of House who achieved glory, Westeros had its fair share of second sons doing heroic things and bringing glory to the House). While I don't want to play that character, having NPC in such an important position takes a bit of agency from the players and they should have a say on that. Also you might have one perception of Mr. Glorious, but if someone decides to play them, they might have other idea: just because people did some glorious deed, they might not perceive themselves as satisfied with where life had lead them-  maybe they think glory is undeserved, maybe they are not even that powerful, but they glory came simply as result of being at the right place at the right time, like notoriety of Jaime Lannister came to him.

Maybe it would help to separate each aspect of House creation into different threads (Castle, Land, Influence, Coat of Arms, maybe thread for banner house?). This would keep all the discussions separate) while keeping the OOC for discussion about rules supplements and stuff? This would keep things more streamlined and enable discussion to be more straightforward without people having to sift through pages of text.

To the point in mr. glorious being a pc. I totally could see it being someone who is old or very old or , their highest starting stats are 5 but they have lots of flaws, heck I could see it being fun to play. But their goals are not personal, like Walder Frey only wants to make house Frey a peer to the wardens.

Edit: phone before appointment
This message was last edited by the player at 16:29, Thu 11 June 2020.

I had not seen Gray suggest that Mr. Glorious wasn't the Head of House. That is a brilliant idea.

And I agree with you that others might see him differently. And you are right about your right time, right place comment. And as we haven't specified exactly what happened, my imagination runs away with me and establishes facts not in evidence.

THat is a good idea, I'll set up the threads for them.

In that case, might Mr. Glorious have been the HoH’s grand uncle and Mr Gray his son, thus HoH’s current uncle?

I know that Gray had mentioned a role as something of an uncle to the heirs, it could go a long way to have such an advisor. Just a suggestion.
This message was last edited by the player at 15:32, Thu 11 June 2020.

Gray contacted me recently and said that he is leaving the game.

Grand Uncle Glorious sounds old for an event in Robert's Rebellion. What age do you see a grand uncle having? Do we want to move the final historical event a little earlier?

How about uncle if grand uncle is too old?

I have no problem with uncle. And I was only saying that Grand Uncle sounds old, I don't know how old he is or how fit.

That depends on if we want Grand Uncle Glorious to still be around or to have gone own to his glorious rewards. In some generations, it was not uncommon to have an uncle that was similar in age to a sibling. So if HoH is in his 40s or 50s, Glorious could be as well.

I am sorry to hear that Gray has decided to withdraw.

It is not set in stone, its just something I was considering and approached Dragondog to see if some things were possible to remedy. I had not seen their intent to reorganize the threads when I had first messaged them, so I'll see if that takes care of the big thing I was struggling with.

Yes, one of my character ideas had been knightly uncle to the heirs (so brother to head of house... unless that is one of the kids).

As far as someone older performing great deeds during Robert's Rebellion, Barristan Selmy was in his 50's or 60's and was never a foe to be taken lightly.

Okay,

This has been a lot to catch up on...

I agree with the GMs original way of doing things. Going in steps according to the core rule book. The first step is to build the house (which we are not finished with), the second step is where you begin to build your character.
This thread is called “house building.” If you need to allocate a resource that we spend in house building (like for a maester, or a banner house, or a ship) please post that in those respective threads so the rest of us catching up with the conversation can follow. I think everyone has been supportive of what we would like to do in that respect. Otherwise, let’s focus on creating a cool house that we would all like to role play a story in. If you are NOT sure if you want to play a character that uses House Stat Resources, then do not request it, and if you have changed your mind about a previously stated desire to use those resources, please be clear that you do not want to utilize those resources.

There has been far too much talk about character ideas. If players want to spitball and get each other’s opinions and brainstorm together about character ideas, perhaps there should be a Brainstorming Characters thread. (I will leave that up to our GM to decide.) Otherwise it will take everyone else for too long to catch up with the conversation in order to contribute to it.

This is not a critique on our GM, who has been doing a great job at disseminating information and encouraging us to stay on track. I also think that brainstorming about character ideas is one of the most fun things about RPGs in person.

We are going to loose a lot of players due to sheer lack of stamina... context: I just put my 2 month old infant down for the night, and it took me 15 minutes to catch up on the conversation in this ONE thread, and I was participating just a few hours ago (because I’m a teacher and it’s summer), I cannot imagine how daunting it would be for someone (most likely still working during the day) to try and catch up to us reading pages and pages of posts that have slowly begun to loose focus.
This message was last edited by the player at 05:39, Fri 12 June 2020.

Thanks for that idea Brown.

I will be going back to work next week. So I'm not going to be here as much as I have been.

In reply to Brown (msg # 341):

I am feeling the lack of stamina Brown is talking about. I don’t feel passionate about the build of the house, I am more interested in exploring a character that fits the house that is built.

I have no plans on going anywhere but I will leave the house building to the people who are passionate about that aspect.

Thank you for letting us know that Silver.

So, is there where things stand so far?

House ____ of the Vale
Motto: ____
Sigil: ____


Defense (51)
 Superior Castle, 50 (Unnamed)
  - Holds up to 10 units, grants +12 to defense tests

Influence (51)
 Maximum Status 6, No heirs

Land (23)
 Mountain Domain, 9
 Hamlet, 10 (Unnamed)
 River, 3
 Grasslands, 1

Law (21)
 -2 to House Fortune rolls

Population (21)
 +1 to House Fortune rolls

Power (42)
 Banner House, 20 (Unnamed)

Wealth (32)
 Rich Mine, 20
  +3 to House Fortune rolls, +2 Wealth gained from House Fortunes
 Smelter, 5
  Reduce Artisan cost by 2, +1 Population gained from House Fortunes

-----------------------------

As far as general character ideas mentioned...

- Purple is going to be lord of the house
- Gold and Green will be his siblings
- Brown is a "Maggie the Frog"-esque diviner and aunt to the the house
- Gray may be a knight and uncle to the house (alternative idea being a maester/spymaster)
- Red expressed interest in playing a steward/artisan
- Silver expressed interest in playing a bastard of the house or a ward from another house
- White, Black, and Orange are part of the banner house


Just... trying to keep things straight in my head. I hope this is okay.
This message was last edited by the player at 21:46, Fri 12 June 2020.

Though there are no children, the brother can still be heir to the house.

Rich Mine need 20 Wealth investment and givess House Fortune Rolls +3 and Resource Gain Bonus: Wealth +2. The Smelter improvement needs an investment of 5 Wealth and gives Resource Gain Bonus: Population +1 and Other Holding Discount: Artisan Personage Holding cost in reduced by 2.

Everything else, regarding the House, is correct and what you have left blank hasn't been decided though some have (strong) opinions about some of them.

As for the characters people are thinking about playing, I leave to them to comment on.

So the mine costs an investment of 20 Wealth, but raises our total Wealth by 2?
This message had punctuation tweaked by the player at 21:28, Fri 12 June 2020.

When Wealth is increased because of a House Fortune roll, the mine makes that increase larger.

Ohhh, okay. That's nifty. I appreciate the explanation.

In reply to Gray (msg # 345):

Yes. Sister in law to the lord of the house (widow to a deceased brother).

With the edits our GM mentioned, everything else seems correct for what he been officially decided. From what I understand, it would take 4 of us to come to a consensus to make any decisions final.
This message was last edited by the player at 16:54, Sat 13 June 2020.

The lord of the house is in his early 20's, so we are going with a second younger brother, for four siblings in all? (Or five if Silver sticks with the bastard idea)
This message was last edited by the player at 17:01, Sat 13 June 2020.

With have three PC siblings, as far as I know. Who is this second younger brother?

The deceased one Brown wants their character to have been married to.

I thought she was married to one of their uncles. That she would be an aunt to the siblings. As she posted her idea before we established that one of the kids recently became Head of House.

Or did I get that wrong Brown?

In reply to Dragondog (msg # 354):

Correct! Sister in law the the former HoH, as my character is middle aged. aunt to the newly appointed HoH and his siblings.

Uncle Gray and Auntie Brown are the trusted advisors of us three kids.

What could possibly go wrong...

Black had also wanted to play a bastard so changed my concept to be a ward. Black I believe will be a bastard from the banner house.

Nothing wrong with you both playing one, especially if from different houses. Go with whatever sounds most fun for you. ^_^

I am happy with the idea of being a ward.  I just need to find a reason for the house to have taken a ward.

My initial idea was that I was taken as a result of trade dispute.  Although as the house history develops I think this may need to be reviewed.