In reply to Dragondog (msg # 309):

Who said that?

People, What happened to the tally I tried to get going?
What happened here where people shout out stuff without answering the previous question?
We are 11 players and planned on posting every 2-3 days. If you post 3 pages worth of messages in a day then of course you'll miss or forget those that have expressed their wishes.



This was the last message, so we have
Gold who would like to be the heir or the second born of the house,
Orange who would like to be the only daughter of the house (slightly mentally unstable)
Green who would like to be the daughter focusing on courtly matters.

If everyone still agrees with what they posted then its clear how many family members we have (Though we're still short a couple of players)
So how about we continue with this list and it will be much easier to see who wants what.
This message was last edited by the player at 00:23, Thu 11 June 2020.

There are a lot of players. Everyone isn't here as much as some. This process takes time. This is the first time I'm doing this. It's a learning bug process too.

As they are not here,  I see it as my responsibility to look out for them. To make sure this is a collaborative effort and not just controlled by those who spend the most to be here.

And for Influence holdings, you pay for children.  I said there were four requiring an investment of 45 points.  You said there were none. How else could I interpret that?

We still don't know what to do with Head of House. If Purple is head, then we are either at one heir, his son played by Gold,or with Purple and us as his three siblings(probably very young). I assumed the latter, but then GM said we might have NPC head, which changes arrangement everyone seemed satisfied with.

According to book, you pay for sons and daughters not brothers and sisters. I understood Purple wanted to play head of House and operated under that assumption, because you as a GM never objected to it. That's how you should have interpreted that, instead of accusing me of trying to cheat you out of some house points :).

I guess we have to decide on who plays the head of the House are they married/do they have children and then invest first and then work on allocating resources. Or you could ask from everyone to submit their concepts and if there's overlap accept those who you consider more interesting. There's too much misunderstandings.

As for posting frequencies, we are in a dynamic period now where everyone is raring to go. That contributes to the post bloat and I feel we gotta have some kind of structure as to how to proceed. We cannot at the same time debate Head of House, number of reduced attributes, number of children, ports and whatnot. So I suggest taking it role by role, thing by thing. And once someone is accepted in a role, once we we move one.

I've been trying to take one thing at a time, but as everyone isn't on at the same time, so discussions are put on hold so that everyone can give their input. And so that those that are here can do something other than wait, I have started other discussions.  All so that we can start playing as soon as possible.

I have always seen the four of you as siblings. Children of the head of house. I have never seen Purple as the head of house. So there was never anything top object to.

And I agree there ate to much misunderstandings.

So we desire to invest 45 Influence in heirs :

1 Purple as first son, and heir
2 Gold as second son
3 Orange as first daughter
4 Green as second daughter

With remaining Influence to be banked.

Does anyone have plans varying from this?
This message was last edited by the player at 04:49, Thu 11 June 2020.

In reply to Purple (msg # 317):

I was planning on being a Ward from another house so I am happy with that.

In reply to Silver (msg # 318):

Ooh, how long are you thinking of having been with us?

I was waiting to see the house history fleshed out before making that decision.

I would think a few years minimum.

I believe black wanted to be a bastard. So I would like to have been a part of the house long enough for us two start the game as friends, given black is willing.

Looks good to me. If there's no change then I'll send a group message to Purple, Orange and Green where we can talk about the details.

I was thinking that my house is on the coast in the bay of crabs.   The reason for my character being taken as a ward is the my house had been a dishonest trading partner.  My character would have been taken as an insurance that the deals above board.

In reply to Purple (msg # 317):

I do. Like I said, I would prefer to have PC head of House and I would like to be start as female heir. Since I have a finished concept and all, I guess I want to have a say in this as much as others. But I have a feeling that whatever I say is ignored and redacted by GM anyway so be it.

Edit: I might apply to be the heir or Lady of the banner house if GM is OK with us having a banner house.
This message was last edited by the player at 08:03, Thu 11 June 2020.

Feel free. In the meantime, I look forward to the discussion thread that Gold has mentioned.

In reply to Purple (msg # 325):

Sure, see you there.

Orange, even with a PC head of house, there is still another male of the house, that in this area would be heir before your character. I understand that you want to be a female heir. Unfortunately, as the world is set up, that is not going to happen when there is a possible male heir.

It's unfortunate that you feel that I ignore you. That is not what I want or do at all. I try to keep all the players interests in mind.

If the group invests in a banner house, you have a banner house.

I am sorry that we got off on the wrong foot. That was not what I wanted at all.

All I wanted for the house creation was that all players would get their voice heard. That all players would be included in the decision making process. And that we would end up with a House that we all could be proud of.

I'll just go in order because there is lots of ground to cover. First of all I am happy to be in your game, I think you are doing something that is hard to do (game with 11 players, house creation game and your first game of ASOIAF to boot) and potential problems are expected. I never wanted to be a problem player but several instances of communications made me feel picked on:

1. I was one of the first ayers that suggested playing a female heir. With more or less finished sheet. When I pointed that out, it was seen as "limiting options of others". Why was I the one  singled out, when I made that concept before I knew anyone else had intention of playing it instead of others being told that there is already someone who proposed that proposal?

2. I explicitly wrote that Purple and I were throwing idea around of him being hair of House. You ignored previous conversation that happened, nixed itand accused me of wanting children without spending anything.

3.Every time I propose something it is nitpicked upon. Mountain and hamlet are first too expensive, when I suggest spent that isn't it is nicked because unnamed someone wants coast? So what? River and coast cost the same? Both can have harbors. Same with mercury mine. I thought it was nice story idea, like many others that were proposed, but suddenly the economy regarding supply and demand for mercury in Westeros is brought into question. My head of House who had glory days during the Robert's rebellion suddenly becomes unplayable because you don't know what to do with glorious character but we are not allowed to have him dead either, it seems... I don't get it. I'd like to be able to throw ideas around without GM saying: that was not decided and moving to the next thing,that buries the previous discussion in bunch of posts.

If you believe I am being unfair or somehow trying to "hijack" the game, tell me and I will post in a different manner. I tend to be outspoken and opinionated, but I believe I am easy to talk to.

Now, if you're saying you had no intention getting on my bad side, I'll let the matter drop and believe this was all unfortunate miscommunication due to the chaos of having bunch of people posting all the time.
This message was last edited by the player at 13:51, Thu 11 June 2020.

In reply to Orange (msg # 328):

I will address only point 3.  The issue is that people have expressed an interest in certain things, ie coast for ships.  The only issue with Mountain/hamlet is the 2 extra cost for the mountain which then limits options.  If I get a chance, while I am working, I will try to throw together a few ideas and options...but we didn't roll a lot of land and that is very limiting.

I don't think, and I hope, that I didn't say or do anything to add to your feelings of being nitpicked!  :)

You personally did not. The plan with hills had both coast and ruins/river. We can still have mountain and coast of we drop the ruins/river thing.
This message was last edited by the player at 14:01, Thu 11 June 2020.

I'm sorry Orange, I don't want you or anyone feeling that way. That is the opposite of what I have been trying to achieve.

And never having done this before, mistakes have and will be made again, I'm sure. Please feel free to point those out.

The "limiting options for others" came from other players, not me. And I know someone made the point that all choices limit the options for others.

Unfortunately, the setting and the core rules are quite clear on female heir outside of Dorne.

I'm sorry for my mistakes and misunderstandings which unfortunately led me to see things as if they had been in a state other than what you had intended.

I have sometimes been posting from my tablet and its spell checker is atrocious and I don't catch all the mistakes.

In regards to the hill/mountain issue, I found two posts I made. One merely stating that one was more expensive than the other, having no intention with that comment to limit your or the group's choice of where to place your home. And the second was that depending on the rule set we choose to use, a coastline could be preferrable to a river if you wanted a Port. Again, not to nitpick or to limit your options, but to inform how some choices would affect options. So that you and all of you could freely make the choices you want to make.

As for Mr Glorious, I don't see him as a starting character. I see him as someone who has had a long and productive life. Someone who has earned experience throughout his life and that would be more powerful than the rest of you. And as I've said earlier, I have no problem with a PC being the head of house, as long as that PC isn't Mr. Glorious.

Having a house based on the siblings of the Head of House is new to me and all I can say about how I handled that is that I wasn't thinking clearly and I'm sorry about that. It was way past my bedtime (and yes, I've been old enough to set my own bedtime since the last millenium).


I'm sorry. I didn't mean for things to go wrong, but they did. Let's fix it.

How do you suggest that we go about the house creation, what's left of house creation, so that everyone is happy, every player has input, we don't miss out on what players think is important and that they at least get a chance of having that included in the House, even if the group in the end chooses to go in another direction?



I hope I covered everything, let me know if there is something else you want me to address.

I accept your apology and I totally get it. It's been chaotic and play by post groups here aren't usually hectic like this one, so it is easy to feel a bit lost. So, let us drop this and move things in a different direction.

First of all, I guess there should be a vote on who do we want as Head of House: Mr. Glorious, his son, or someone else (as Grey pointed out maybe it wasn't head of House who achieved glory, Westeros had its fair share of second sons doing heroic things and bringing glory to the House). While I don't want to play that character, having NPC in such an important position takes a bit of agency from the players and they should have a say on that. Also you might have one perception of Mr. Glorious, but if someone decides to play them, they might have other idea: just because people did some glorious deed, they might not perceive themselves as satisfied with where life had lead them-  maybe they think glory is undeserved, maybe they are not even that powerful, but they glory came simply as result of being at the right place at the right time, like notoriety of Jaime Lannister came to him.

Maybe it would help to separate each aspect of House creation into different threads (Castle, Land, Influence, Coat of Arms, maybe thread for banner house?). This would keep all the discussions separate) while keeping the OOC for discussion about rules supplements and stuff? This would keep things more streamlined and enable discussion to be more straightforward without people having to sift through pages of text.

To the point in mr. glorious being a pc. I totally could see it being someone who is old or very old or , their highest starting stats are 5 but they have lots of flaws, heck I could see it being fun to play. But their goals are not personal, like Walder Frey only wants to make house Frey a peer to the wardens.

Edit: phone before appointment
This message was last edited by the player at 16:29, Thu 11 June 2020.

I had not seen Gray suggest that Mr. Glorious wasn't the Head of House. That is a brilliant idea.

And I agree with you that others might see him differently. And you are right about your right time, right place comment. And as we haven't specified exactly what happened, my imagination runs away with me and establishes facts not in evidence.

THat is a good idea, I'll set up the threads for them.

In that case, might Mr. Glorious have been the HoH’s grand uncle and Mr Gray his son, thus HoH’s current uncle?

I know that Gray had mentioned a role as something of an uncle to the heirs, it could go a long way to have such an advisor. Just a suggestion.
This message was last edited by the player at 15:32, Thu 11 June 2020.