General Discussion.   Posted by GM.Group: 0
GM
 GM, 54 posts
 Master of the Universe
Wed 8 Jul 2020
at 02:46
Re: General Discussion
The original rules are designed for two players or teams fighting each other head to head, not for two sides with a GM so Fog of War would be difficult to simulate.  Also being a board game style, players are able to move fleets based on information they would not have for up to two days.  i.e. A ship or fleet could be moved on one side of the Frontier based on the arrival of a fleet on the other side of the Frontier when the commander of the first fleet would not actually get notification until the following day.

Also after reading through the rules surrounding the available detection technology of either radar or energy sensors and jamming via white noise generators, I believe it would not be difficult for either side to move ships and fleets secretly.  Energy sensors only have a range of 50 hexes, so it would not take long for ships to move outside detection range before initiating any jump into the Void.  It would also be simple for any military on either side to enforce an exclusion zone around their fleet locations and banning all other traffic from the area to prevent line-of-sight spying.

Energy sensors can only detect the type of engines, they cannot identify individual ships and the same goes for radar.  At best radar would indicate size or maybe even silhouette at short range but not specific ships.

Both sides are at an equal disadvantage if you cannot identify the individual ships in a fleet marker and the game is more likely to last longer with this kind of shell game, not one clean sweep in the first set of attacks.

As we know the transit boxes represent time rather than distance and if enemy fleets can be detected once they enter a system then the ships must be entering the system within 50 hexes a planet or another energy sensor.  On this thin piece of information I decided that 50 hexes per turn is the maximum speed of any ship entering the tactical map/combat.  This is probably far in excess of what is realistically possible but I think a ceiling limit on speed needs to be set to make the game practical and playable.

With regard to skill levels and other optional rules, both opposing fleet commanders need to agree on any optional rules, so if one player want to use skills and the other does not, then no skills for that battle.
Tom Stephens
 player, 4 posts
 UPF Fleet Command
 Militia & Unattached
Wed 8 Jul 2020
at 03:38
Re: General Discussion
In reply to GM (msg # 21):

Fair enough.  Just a different game that I thought we were playing.  Should be interesting.
Tom Stephens
 player, 5 posts
 UPF Fleet Command
 Militia & Unattached
Wed 8 Jul 2020
at 04:19
Re: General Discussion
Is there a way to post images directly here?

In the meantime here's a little something I whipped up:

Frontier Deployment Map - Turn 1: https://starfrontiers.info/dat...DM-SWII-RPoL-T01.jpg
GM
 GM, 59 posts
 Master of the Universe
Wed 8 Jul 2020
at 04:40
Re: General Discussion
In reply to Tom Stephens (msg # 23):

Pictures can be posted here in RPOL I just haven't figured out the code to do it.  I can also upload game maps, I only posted a very basic one, when I get time I will update it with more detail.
Shawn Johnson
 player, 19 posts
 UPF Fleet Command
 Task Force Cassidine
Wed 8 Jul 2020
at 12:42
Re: General Discussion
I like how you did your map Tom.  I rebuilt the whole thing in excel so I can have every ship and station on the map.  I also have room to track pirates and other ships if need be as well (from the ominous message from the GM).

I built the bigger map so when we engage fleets and get exact ship counts it can be tracked easier.
GM
 GM, 60 posts
 Master of the Universe
Wed 8 Jul 2020
at 14:33
Re: General Discussion
If I were Tom I would not be posting maps showing his ship positions in a forum where the Sathar can find them :)
Robin Hood
 player, 14 posts
 Sathar High Command
 Admiral Fleet Delta
Wed 8 Jul 2020
at 14:51
Re: General Discussion
In reply to GM (msg # 26):

Oh, we'll find out. Our spies are everywhere. :)
Tom Stephens
 player, 7 posts
 UPF Fleet Command
 Militia & Unattached
Wed 8 Jul 2020
at 17:48
Re: General Discussion
In reply to GM (msg # 26):

See I'm still thinking about the regular rules where everyone can see everyone.  But as said, it's not that big of a deal.  Most of my ships were positioned in the rules, the others are minor variations and you already said in the introductions that the Sathar were monitoring the Frontier and knew where everything was when they chose to launch the attack.  So I assumed they had all the UPF locations to begin with as that was implied by the introduction.
GM
 GM, 62 posts
 Master of the Universe
Wed 8 Jul 2020
at 18:29
Re: General Discussion
Tom Stephens:
In reply to GM (msg # 26):

See I'm still thinking about the regular rules where everyone can see everyone.  But as said, it's not that big of a deal.  Most of my ships were positioned in the rules, the others are minor variations and you already said in the introductions that the Sathar were monitoring the Frontier and knew where everything was when they chose to launch the attack.  So I assumed they had all the UPF locations to begin with as that was implied by the introduction.


That is absolutely correct, I just wanted to make sure everyone was on the right page.  The Sathar had the edge at the start of the war, it was a surprise attack, they knew whee everything was on the first day.

Immediately after the first day the UPF clamp down on security as a matter of course, standing orders and all that stuff.  So the Sathar forces are committed to their attacks, now the UPF can deploy under 'fog of war conditions'.  This is probably the biggest deviation from the rules really.  It gives both sides the opportunity to start redeploying ships stealthily.  From now on all Game Maps will use Fleet counters until fleets enter systems.
Michael Kramer
 player, 6 posts
 UPF Fleet Command
 Task Force Prenglar
Thu 9 Jul 2020
at 05:48
Re: General Discussion
In reply to Tom Stephens (msg # 23):

Thanks Tom.that's helpful to me.
Tom Stephens
 player, 12 posts
 UPF Fleet Command
 Militia & Unattached
Thu 9 Jul 2020
at 16:05
Re: General Discussion
In reply to Michael Kramer (msg # 30):

NP.  I post updates in the UPF thread from now on with updates on what intelligence we have.
Shawn Johnson
 player, 29 posts
 UPF Fleet Command
 Task Force Cassidine
Thu 9 Jul 2020
at 16:42
Re: General Discussion
OPSEC
GM
 GM, 68 posts
 Master of the Universe
Thu 9 Jul 2020
at 20:11
Re: General Discussion
I have posted an updated Frontier Deployment Map

The War Diary has been updated with the UPF movements for turn 1

It is now Sathar movement turn 2

There are now 3 thread pinned to the top of the forum, the Official War Diary (Turn Record) and each side has a thread for your official deployment orders.  Talk as much as you want in the other forums, when you post in the deployment forum, there are no 'do-overs'.

The Roll20 site is ready to go, we have character sheets there for every ship on both sides, there are a bunch of maps prepared in several systems and Robin and I had a pretty successful test play a couple of days ago, so those of you who are on Roll20, we have an excellent tool for resolving combat now :)
David Pauwels
 player, 3 posts
 Sathar High Command
 Admiral Fleet Beta
Thu 9 Jul 2020
at 21:06
Re: General Discussion
In reply to GM (msg # 33):

So the updated map will be the 'Game Map?' I just want to make sure I'm looking in the right place for updated movements.
Tom Stephens
 player, 14 posts
 UPF Fleet Command
 Militia & Unattached
Thu 9 Jul 2020
at 22:05
Re: General Discussion
One more rules question/clarification.  Sorry.

Are we using the as written victory and retreat conditions? Namely to win, the Sathar have to kill 12 stations including all fortresses and they have one of five retreat conditions that we as the UPF don't know about?  With UPF victory depending on how many fortresses are left when (if) we force them to retreat.

Or are there some other victory conditions we need to be accounting for?
GM
 GM, 69 posts
 Master of the Universe
Thu 9 Jul 2020
at 22:25
Re: General Discussion
That is correct, except the Sathar do not know yet, what their retreat conditions are either.
Robin Hood
 player, 19 posts
 Sathar High Command
 Admiral Fleet Delta
Fri 10 Jul 2020
at 01:49
Re: General Discussion
OOC: Is there a limit to how many Sathar ships a single SCC can replace during a turn? Is it a single ship of any size? It is as many ships as we are lucky enough to roll 35 or less on? We kind of need to know this. (also, note typo, shouldn't that be 36 rather than 26? KH Expansion Rules p60 "Replacements."
Tom Stephens
 player, 19 posts
 UPF Fleet Command
 Militia & Unattached
Fri 10 Jul 2020
at 02:28
Re: General Discussion
In reply to Robin Hood (msg # 37):

Yes, that's a typo.

They way I read it is that you roll d100 for every ship lost in the last 20 days.  If you roll 35 or less, it gets added back into your Order of Battle and you can bring it into the game at any time including on the next turn (following the restrictions that no more than half of the ships you bring in on a turn can be in the same SSC).  If you roll 36 or higher, it is permanently removed from the game and can never be brought back.
GM
 GM, 72 posts
 Master of the Universe
Fri 10 Jul 2020
at 04:56
Re: General Discussion
Robin Hood:
OOC: Is there a limit to how many Sathar ships a single SCC can replace during a turn? Is it a single ship of any size? It is as many ships as we are lucky enough to roll 35 or less on? We kind of need to know this. (also, note typo, shouldn't that be 36 rather than 26? KH Expansion Rules p60 "Replacements."


I think the fairest, most logical solution would be for the Sathar player to roll for each ship lost.  Once the number of ships saved has been determined then replacement ships would be divided as evenly as possible between the SCC's
GM
 GM, 83 posts
 Master of the Universe
Mon 13 Jul 2020
at 09:19
Re: General Discussion
Hey folks I am away from home for a couple of days so not the same access to all my resources.  The Sathar fleets have each progressed 1 transit box in turn 2.  I will update the map later in the week.

Is it safe for me to assume over the next 2-3 moves that everyone will move 1 box per day (or 2 if risk jumping)?  If anyone is planning movement changes in the next couple of turns let me know so we can move ahead without delay.

It is currently turn 2b UPF movement phase.
Shawn Johnson
 player, 38 posts
 UPF Fleet Command
 Task Force Cassidine
Mon 13 Jul 2020
at 15:59
Re: General Discussion
Casadine forces will remain on course.
Tony Digaetano
 player, 2 posts
 Sathar High Command
 Admiral Fleet Gamma
Mon 13 Jul 2020
at 17:09
Re: General Discussion
So, how do I find it on Roll20?
GM
 GM, 85 posts
 Master of the Universe
Wed 15 Jul 2020
at 06:41
Re: General Discussion
The War Diary has been updated and I have uploaded the current map.  I do have copies of the map saved for every movement turn if anyone ever needs to double check any movement in between maps that are posted.

Sathar Admirals need to declare any attacks for turn 5.  In Fromeltar we need to know if the target is Groth or Terledrom.

So Tom is up against David at Fromeltar.  Meanwhile the Sathar admirals will need to decide who is going to take command of their Fleet Alpha until we get a 4th admiral.  You guys could even share command of the fleet in battle if yu like, up to you.
Robin Hood
 player, 25 posts
 Sathar High Command
 Admiral Fleet Delta
Wed 15 Jul 2020
at 10:27
Re: General Discussion
In reply to Tony Digaetano (msg # 42):

Because I'm not a paid member, it won't show up in searches. I have to share the link with you. :(

https://app.roll20.net/join/79...JntkVWvg8zweNL9tg6vg
Robin Hood
 player, 26 posts
 Sathar High Command
 Admiral Fleet Delta
Sat 18 Jul 2020
at 15:56
Re: General Discussion
Crossposting this with the Facebook group.

It may help to make the Orders of Battle for both sides into a General topic, including which player is in charge of those ships, so that we know not only what we are facing, but WHO we are facing so we can schedule our EPIC SPACE BATTLES. :)

If nobody else is stepping up to command the Alpha Sathar Fleet, currently set to... liberate... Zikit in the Kizkar star system. Tom, is there a particular time that you'd like to schedule for this that works with RJ's schedule? I'd love to do it live on Roll20, but if we need to play by post I can do that.