Say hi and do your thing, everyone!

Hello, I'm playing a human runepriest.  His name is similar to another character's so I might change it.

Runepriests have Thievery as a class skill, but he doesn't have a high Dexterity and will probably use scale armor.

4th Edition is my favorite edition, so I hope this game comes together and lasts.

I was just asking to change myself.

The "Gentleman" was the important part of the name...the rest doesn't matter so much.

The Gentleman is a Tiefling.  I submitted him as a bard, but I was redirected to Blackguard...and whoo boy does that look fun so it's evil paladin time.

Hi there, Elf ranger here with an ear to the ground. I am likely taking the Investigator theme and will be bringing my bow and speed to bear on any capers :)

I haven't seen a blackguard in action before, so that should be interesting.

Runepriest might not be the ideal leader for two strikers. It offers defensive benefits, which is nice, but seems to focus on increasing damage, rather than attack rolls. More damage is good, in most cases, but might not be that noticeable next to striker output.

But we'll see how it goes.

I bet it will be awesome!

To be fair, rangers have a really high number of multi-attack powers to capitalize on the passive attack/damage roll buffs, and the Blackguard has the best tank of any striker and Tiefling Blackguards get access to some really fun combos with Runepriest powers.

In reply to Guildmaster (msg # 7):

Sounds good. Upon rereading, I realized that the runepriest does have a reliable way to provide attack roll bonuses, as long as he stays on the front line.

The nature of this game gives me hope though that sometimes we'll be able to succeed in encounters just by obtaining some goal, rather than having to slaughter every thing.

Okay, catching up.  Still hoping for 1 more player, but I'll still run the game even if we don't get one.

Character sheets are enabled, so feel free to transfer your information down onto there.  Will be PMing this weekend to hammer out worldbuilding and backstory stuff.

Hi all, glad to be joining the game. Thanks to Guildmaster for being willing to allow my character. I will be playing a slight variant on a Swordmage, the variant being that as a dwarf he uses Hammers or Axes instead of Light or Heavy Blades.

So as you read the description for Swordmage just read Hammer or Axe instead of Light or Heavy Blade. The impact should be that I hit a little less due to the proficiency bonus difference but I do a little more damage when I do hit.

Welcome! That’s a cool variant and a very fitting way to make dwarves more magically oriented :)

In reply to Baldin Stonecrusher (msg # 10):

Sort of as if he was wielding a kopesh. That's cool. Welcome.

Yeah, except in this case it's a warhammer, no blade about it.

My thought here was a dwarven variant of the Swordmage, from a game perspective it's the same apart from the weapons, but then renaming certain things to make it more "dwarvish". So in my mind the dwarven variant is called a Forge Guardian. They are the dwarves who are tasked with guarding the most important treasures of a dwarf hold, the forges. Because of the extreme heat generated in the forges these dwarves wear leather armor created from old forge leathers rather than the standard heavy armor you normally associate with dwarves. Initially select warriors from the clan their exposure to the elemental powers contained within the forges of dwarf holds (many of which tap into the core elemental forces of the world) has heightened their sensitivity to Arcane forces which the have learned to control and harness through their rune embossed weaponry.

In reply to Baldin Stonecrusher (msg # 13):

I see. You mentioned axes, so that made me think of the kopesh.

I'd be interested to understand what the plan is for this to be a "character-driven" game. That means different things to different people.

I assume it means that the characters have a goals and the party has a goal, and the way the game proceeds depends on how the players have their characters pursue those goals.

I have a rough goal for my character. My preference is for a goal the character can accomplish even the character is killed or otherwise taken out while achieving it, and which is worth accomplishing despite that possibility. Otherwise, it doesn't make sense to take those exciting, endangering risks.

---

Spoiler text: (Highlight or hover over the text to view)
Basically, he's trying to obtain the runes by which he can ensure the safety of at least a small part of the world, so that part of the world, and the people living in it, can be safe. Even if he survives obtaining the necessary runes, making use of them might be what destroys him.

---

I don't know the setting, but I figure that having my character care about some aspect of the world is important. That seems to be a common element of heroic characters, even the less-than-legal ones. So, I'm interested in hooks along those lines.

I am hoping it means the game will be driven by our motivations. I am playing a character with the inquisitive theme and I hope that means we’ll be doing a fair bit of investigation and rp around the heists.

In reply to Cal'alais Eltharin (msg # 16):

"RP" is another thing that means a lot of different things. I feel like it's generally used as a synonym for "talking." I see it as "anything done based on character motivations" which includes combat and exploration. I'm not a big fan of most "talking" in RPGs, mainly because it so often seems to involve posturing (i.e. threats and intimidation by edgy PCs), exposition, or argument. Any of those can be fun and interesting, but that can be tricky to pull off.

How do others view "roleplaying" and what are the important aspects of it for you?

Character-driven, in my sense of the phrase, means that I'm not going to railroad you or tell you that there's things you can or cannot do.  I'm using the heist plot as a context to start you guys off and put you into a situation where your characters have to trust each other, despite possibly having no history whatsoever between them, and start fleshing out what their presence means in the wider world.

I do keep the world moving around you and what your characters do, and the consequences of the actions you take, but I'm hoping to probe each of you with opportunities to reflect what is important to your character and their goals.  I will roll with whatever comes up.

One thing that I will ask, however, is that no-one rolls for social skills like Diplomacy,  Intimidation,  etc. until I ask for a roll, unless you are using a specific power or feature that explicitly calls for it to work.  I want you to feel immersed in the conversations and pay attention to the details.  It's okay to ask for references and recaps, and I am fine with shorthand when you're unsure how to express your intentions, but immersion is a big part of making 4E RP more rewarding.

That said, how are we doing on Chargen?  I only see two sheets complete, and I'm more than happy to fill things in for people  if needed.

I PM’d you my sheet. I am having a hard time with keeping the formatting clean on my phone but can try to get it updated next week

Speaking as someone who probably isn't going to have the highest modifiers in those skills, I'm fine with that. As a DM, I generally prefer players way to be asked for all skill rolls. I probably won't roll preemptively for anything outside of combat, unless there are certain rolls you'd like us to make.


I'm almost done, I mostly just need to enter it into the character sheet. I need to decide on feats and backgrounds, and buy equipment.

Finally finished the copy-paste stage of my character sheet.  I still need to pick a background and buy equipment, but after that I should be good to go.

As a human, I can pick a language. What would make sense for him to know?

Fun question time!

I can either pick up Plate and a Heavy Shield and tank it up as best I can, OR I can downgrade to Scale and a Light shield which doesn't invoke Stealth Penalties (which in a heist game, might be a big deal)

Does anyone have opinions on the subject?

In reply to Gentleman Barracus (msg # 23):

Since our choices are completely open, we don't have any reason to believe that any particular skills will be needed for this heist. There are lots of different kinds of heists, after all.

If you have plate proficiency, the class is probably designed with that in mind, so I recommend that. A shield is either/or, but worth it if you don't have a great Constitution or Reflex score.
This message was last edited by the player at 05:41, Sat 02 Jan 2021.

In reply to Barris (msg # 22):

Dwarven, Elven, & Draconic are all relevant and likely city-based languages.

In reply to Guildmaster (msg # 25):

I went with dwarven. Seemed most "rune related."

Barris:

There may be room for a connection between our characters. Being a Runepriest and having learned Dwarven it may be that you have visited or studied under dwarven Runepriests at  the hold where Baldin grew up. You may even be aware of Baldin's original position, disgrace and banishment from the hold. I'm good with however you want to play it, but just wanted to put the possibility out there.

My character sheet is pretty much complete. I just need to finish off Baldins' mannerisms and appearance. GM let me know if I need to change anything.

In reply to Baldin Stonecrusher (msg # 27):

Cool. There are some rune-related relics held in Baldin's former hold. What role, if any, did Baldin play in Barris gaining unauthorized access to them?

Barracus, you would also have had access at one time to certain runic texts and artifacts that Barris would have sought. What kind of deal would he have had to strike with you to get a peek at them?

In reply to Barris (msg # 29):

So Baldin was a Forge Guardian, as I posted about earlier. In the hold the Forge Guardians were not only responsible for guarding the forges but also the sacred runic texts of the clan. Unfortunately under Baldin's watch one of the runic texts was stolen. Baldin was cast out of the clan for dereliction of duty and his family name dishonored.

Now obviously I don't want to start by sowing party discord but maybe Baldin remembers you visiting the hold and either working with the Runepriests to gain access to them or Baldin turning a blind eye, based on a friendship we had struck up, to allow you to peruse them.

Either way now the text has been stolen Baldin is seeking you out. He doesn't necessarily think that you are responsible but wants to find out who you talked with about the texts.

This sounds like a cool character hook for our GM. :)

*is furiously taking notes in between worldbuilding and drafting encounters, and all the potential ways to throw them out the window when the party gets creative*

I approve of all of this.  The more background stuff you come up with now, the more material I have to work into the story.  That's not to say that you HAVE to know anything about each other, but any information on character motivations and history is appreciated.   I've already started working out how certain locations are related and what agencies might be responsible for your respective woes, but feel free to keep it coming!

Also, I've added one more player, so now we should have all the primary Archetypes covered.

Is there anything you need from me, that would help make writing those details up easier for you?

Are we playing in a known world like the forgotten realms? If not, can you tell us a bit about the pantheon?

If so, please provide it in proportion to the amount of influence the pantheon is likely to have on the events of the game and the decisions of NPCs, so what we read is relevant to the game.

Nuria, the world I've set up, uses the Forgotten Realms pantheon, but if there's something you want added we can make that happen.

Most of the kingdoms of Nuria were carved away from the grasp of Sorceror-kings who had seized power during the Age of Absence, leaving the world covered in arcane and divine wounds that straddle the planes and have yet to heal.  Most city-states are fractured alliances, some being the domain of divine acolytes and the forces who supported them, and others being lorded over by the former apprentices of the Sorcerer-kings who turned on their teachers when they saw that the armies of the divine were actually gaining ground.  As such, there is a constant shift in allegiances between nearby kingdoms, and a distrust between those cities supported primarily by a temple, and those supported by powerful mages.  Who knows when some church might decide to cut down a powerful spellmaster before he becomes another Sorceror-king, or when the traitorous mage might turn on those who helped him overthrow his former master?

In the city that the story is starting in, Needlerock, the population is primarily dwarven, with the other half split between human and Dragonborn.  Others are present, but those are the most prominent.  A century ago, the city was wrested from the control of a powerful wizard who had built his stronghold at the base of a canyon, where the top of a volcano had been blown from inland to form a natural fortress surrounded by jagged spurs of volcanic rock.  Worshippers of Moradin and other dwarven gods joined the armies of Torm to take the site and strike down its owner, but clashes with the cultists of dark gods seeking to capitalize on the weakened forces brought the campaign to a standstill.  Under dwarven rule the city has been expanding and consolidating, but troubles in the depths of the city have prevented them from moving on past just holding ground.

Cool, yes.

Barris did gain access but he found that the texts contained no new information for him, except for one of them which contained details he didn't need or want: The Word of Impermanent Demise, which is a key aspect of the syllabary of undeath. Barris works with the syllabaries of protection and destruction, and he didn't want anything to do with the word, so he didn't touch it.

However, someone else who knew about Barris's visit and Baldin's involvement took the opportunity to embarrass Baldin while casting suspicion on Barris. They are the ones who took the information on the Word. That information is not itself the Word; divine runes and the runic words usually can't be written permanently in a form mortals can read. But the texts would go a long way toward someone figuring out the Word and how to employ it.


Thanks. Mainly I just want to know if there's anything in the baseline lore of the game that is definitely not present. Like, there's not a lot about runes, but I'm going to assume that they're still part of how the gods formed the world and its many aspects, and that mortals can harness the least powerful of them for temporary effects in the world.
This message was last edited by the player at 04:34, Sun 03 Jan 2021.

I love the backdrop! In a city of dwarves, humans and Dragonborn am I going to stick out like a sore thumb? Or will I be a known oddity. I think that works best for the Inquisitive theme. I am a known stranger. The pointy ears that the dwarves tolerate.

Oh, and Baldin could have sought me out to help him find his missing rune? Just a thought? I am also happy to just be pushing my way into that investigation

Hello everyone. I'm your newest player.

The GM and I spoke and he said he really wanted a blade singer to round out the group, and I agreed control was needed. We also thought that someone who could control somewhat from melee would fit a group of scoundrels like ours better than some mage in a robe. :)

I also noticed this group is melee heavy, which is good because I will do better if you guys grant me combat advantage.

My character is an Eladrin, and I'm making him now. Got most of the sheet done but still wondering about some themes. I'm thinking of the one where it lets my fey step take one of you with so we can set up quick combat advantage, or I can remove you from a pinch. But that is still being worked on. But he will have some decent single target control like making people fall prone, slowed, more slid 3 spaces for instance which should again work well with this group's melee composition.

Background wise I'm fleshing things out but I'm thinking he came to the town trying to find some important relic that was stolen from his family/friends/people/etc and has hopes of using the thieves guild to help him locate it. He's not evil aligned, but is more neutral aligned so isn't afraid to steal and do other selfish things now and then but will be loyal to friends, family, and allies and won't kick puppies and such. I considered good aligned but a thieves guild campaign seems better for neutral alignment I'm thinking.

Nice to meet you!

The closer I am to my quarry, the better off I am, but I am not a melee character :)

Cal will have happily signed on to help you find your missing relic. That seems up my alley.

@DM: Character sheet should be ready. (See also the character description for more detailed backstory stuff)

Barracus is basically a Sith Lord, and as such his goal is to TAKE OVER THE WORLD! (*thundercrack*)

...in a reasonable manner on a cost-effective timescale.  Step one of which is to join a group with an infrastructure he can subvert to his purposes (why hello there Thieves' Guild).

As such he's going to be everyone's best friend!  He'd be more than happy to help regain your various plot coupons.

Let's not retrieve them.

The theft put Baldin on the outs with his hold, but that frees him up to adventure. Barris doesn't want the texts, because they're only useful to someone seeking dark and worrisome power, who also understands runic magic. And there's every chance that whoever took the texts won't ever be able to find the runes to which they allude.

I mean, they probably will, of course, but getting the texts back won't prevent that.

I don't want to set up lame fetch quests, just backstory and potential rumblings of something that can blow up on us later.

As Gentleman Barracus puts it I see the sacred text as being a plot coupon, or MacGuffin. Baldin's goal is to find the lost text and return it to the Hold, thus recovering his honor and reinstating his family in the clan, but that doesn't mean that it has to be used for a fetch quest.

It's simply a tool for the GM to manipulate the action as he likes. He wants the party in a certain area of the world, drop some clues and leads that the text or the thief is likely to be found in that area. In fact, unless the recovery of the text is part of some world threatening outcome then I would agree that recovering it is lame.

However when taking Baldin's quest in tandem with your background of what the text might be used for and add in the Gentleman's desire for world domination and Cal'alais' investigative nature I would say there's a good common thread as to why we would be together and the potential for a campaign that could extend all the way to Epic tier.

So I'm looking at the Prince of Genies paragon path from heroes of elemental chaos as a possible progression path moving into mid levels. It's really flavorful, and perhaps this bound being's vessel is the thing that Caylius is looking for and he just "incidentally" happens to find it and bond with it come level 10 or 11. And its class features seem really useful for a bladesinger too so both mechanically and role-play wise its interesting.

I'm thinking the spirit is a powerful noble or royal genie of some kind that long ago pissed off the Seelie Court or an Archfey in Caylius' familial lineage or some other group Caylius has ties to, and despite its awesome power it got a little too arrogant and got bound up - and tightly - by some VERY pissed off Eladrin into a special vessel (a lamp, gem, amulet, whatever mcguffin works) and it cannot be freed as easily as normal genies in a lamp. However, its power could still potentially be tapped into and there was some Eladrin infighting over it between two main factions related to the lineage that sealed it so the Eladrin decided to avoid an internal schism and sealed it away but somehow someone or something found it and stole it thinking they could use it for wishes. The plus side is this thing's power is NOT easy to tap into like a normal genie lamp would be as it needs to bond with someone of the right bloodline (like Caylius for instance). However, the downside is the thing could still be harnessed in rituals to squeeze some amount of power out and misused against the world and the Eladrin especially.

So Caylius came to Needlerock to try and find it. He is part of the strong lineage that sealed the genie initially but somehow due to luck as much as anything is able to claim ties to both of the factions that fought over and now watch over the vessel so he's one of the few people that neither faction would protest claiming the genie vessel as he has familial ties to both sides. And while its full power cannot be harnessed by a normal person, it can still potentially be used as an arcane power source or something similar by a saavy enough group or individual so the Eladrin want it recovered and either bonded to one of the right lineage or put back into storage as either would prevent its power from being wielded against them or misused against the world.

Thoughts?

In reply to Caylius Valveria (msg # 43):

I could see that integrating into a campaign story, I mean, two MacGuffins, one an almost unlimitless power source and the other a major runic text on undeath. What could go wrong if they came together?

Maybe the former can power a ritual involving the latter? How's THAT for a tie-in?

Maybe both being stolen were part of a bigger conspiracy or plot that will somehow incidentally get solved some time around level 10? :P

Hey guys...are any of you taking the nature knowledge skill? How about thievery?

In reply to Caylius Valveria (msg # 46):

I took Thievery. Runepriests are one of a handful of classes that have it as a class skill.

I have thievery as well. I assumed that was a mandatory :)

I also have a natural bend toward nature but I didn’t take it as a trained skill.

I will have wisdom 12 dex 14 with more dex over time. I can take nature training if you guys have thievery.
This message was last edited by the player at 20:21, Mon 04 Jan 2021.

In reply to Caylius Valveria (msg # 49):

I'm the other way: 16 Wisdom, 12 Dexterity, with Wisdom to increase.

In reply to Cal'alais Eltharin (msg # 48):

Thieves guilds tend to have many streams of income. I went with the con people out of their money, and if that fails lean on them approach.

I'm still tweaking the character.

I'm having a issue with theme. I really like my prince of genies idea it's the perfect tie in for why he's in the city. But it wants elemental origin or diplomacy training and I can't waste a skill training on diplomacy and will have to take an elemental theme to change his origin...I'm thinking watershaper or windbender. But I'd prefer illhurian guardian it is easy to reflavor into searching for the genie vessel and I like the eladrin fey step focus like I can take one of you with when I teleport...like drop ourselves behind enemies or escape being surrounded etc.

So still deciding.
This message was last edited by the player at 15:05, Tue 05 Jan 2021.

In reply to Caylius Valveria (msg # 52):

How do you know how the roleplaying will take you in the next 11 levels? It might become desperately important for you to train in Diplomacy.

But if the paragon path is important to you now, despite being years of game time away, is there a reason you can't take a background that gives you Diplomacy as a class skill?

Edited to add: I understand that the full progression of a 4th Edition character is something people enjoy doing and seeing play out. I'm assuming that some allowance has to be given for uncertainty, though. I mean, we could all die early on. Or our DM could be one who enjoys doling out extra feats and skills where it makes sense.
This message was last edited by the player at 15:22, Tue 05 Jan 2021.

I have a question about that.

backgrounds give it as a class skill but that doesn't mean that you're trained in it right. I think it requires training and my understanding was I have to use up one of my three initial trainings or take a feat. I did consider taking charisma 12 and dumping wisdom and taking diplomacy trained however. and I suppose I'm not afraid of using one or two feets the fat note is skill training for example I might end up taking thievery to represent skills that he learns after joining the thieves guild for instance where is that character creation he wouldn't have the skill so I feel like the mechanics would be supporting the narrative in that choice. Maybe I can do something with diplomacy that way too like maybe the guild teaches him how to be a little more smooth or something.

In reply to Caylius Valveria (msg # 54):

A background can give you an extra class skill, but yes, you still have to choose it as one you take at character creation.

It makes sense to be trained in Thievery before or after joining the Guild. In the one hand, they probably offer training, on the other hand why would they take someone who wasn't already trained? The guild training could be represented by our improvement over time.

I don't understand the point about ability scores. Those don't need to change. Paragon paths in 4th Edition don't depend on ability scores, for the most part.
This message was last edited by the player at 15:28, Tue 05 Jan 2021.

I'm gonna take all this feedback into consideration tonight and try to finish up the character. I think I'm more comfortable now with not having everything I need up front as I can use feats to make skill tweaks. I don't have "a build" in mind not all levels pre planned. I really like the genie vessel tie in though for his background so will build toward that holistically.

In reply to Caylius Valveria (msg # 56):

Cool.

To our GM: do you want us thinking about magic item wishlists? My preference these days is to really have to work for the items I think I need for the adventure, not just get them because I'm "supposed to." Like, if things go wrong, I could wind up behind the "expected" curve, and maybe have to take risks to get back on it.

This can't be more than academic for a while, but none of the runepriest at-wills increase in damage at epic level.

I'm really glad for all these plot ideas, and I plan to incorporate everything I can!

Just as a reassurance,  thievery and Stealth are not required skills by any stretch of the imagination.  I'm happy to reward creative solutions to problems, and the heist-mission intro has multiple solutions.

Barris, I prefer not to use Wishlists or build expectations.  When you guys find an interesting magic item, I want questions to come up about "how do we use this?".  When you commission a magic item from one of the many craftsmen (or make it yourselves) I want it to feel like an achievement in and of itself, rather than a blip in your radar.  There will be lots of interesting junk, and certain fights might give components you can use to shortcut the cost of building an item you want.

I do feel you on the at-will powers,  tho.  Imma houserule something on it, if we get to there.

In reply to Guildmaster (msg # 59):

Yeah, it's not a huge deal.

I probably won't use really random stuff or commission something unless I get desperate. But I enjoy getting desperate.

As for the at-wills, I think it was probably an oversight, but it might have been related to the idea of not increasing augmentable at-wills at level 21. Maybe having versatility is expected to make up for raw damage, hence why the psionic striker doesn't use augmentation.

I'd prefer to have it be a surprise on white items I find as it makes it feel more immersive and realistic.

In reply to Caylius Valveria (msg # 61):

It's still surprising to me, even with a wishlist, because I tend to put down a lot of options for things I'd enjoy using.

So I made a decision that I find myself very satisfied with.

I'm taking the Windlord Theme. It mentions some elemental air Eladrin in it and that just caused everything to "click."

So the story is he is from a special rare lineage of Eladrin that are a cross between Fey and Air due to the actions of an Archfey progenitor long ago. The whole thing about there being two factions who are stewards over the Sealed Vessel is still true, and he came to our world to the city trying to track it down. He has a high perception bonus due to racials, theme, and training so is good at finding clues and being a sleuth, and with his prodigious intelligence puts the clues together and has followed a trail to the city but the trail went dry again.

Unknown to most, his rare lineage of Eladrin has attained high mastery of the fey arts ages ago and began to commune with the powers of the element of air. Some crazy stuff went down between these Eladrin and some powerful air spirits (most likely genies or something similar) and a royal genie  royally - all pun intended - pissed off the Archfey Valveria, matriarch  of these Eladrin, in some sort of feud that ended up with the Archfey sealing the elemental spirit away into a vessel and amends being made by the air courts to the court of Archfey Valveria as they gifted her royal lineage with a potent blessing of elemental air as a sign of enduring peace between the two courts, for the air courts ruled this royal genie was in the wrong and wanted to kiss and make up with Valveria and her court. With order restored between this Fey court and the air courts, the vessel was sealed away as the two dominant royal lineages of Valveria couldn't agree on who was fit to possess such a treasure and the Archfey herself was so disgusted by the genie she wanted nothing to do with it and commanded her royal lineage to "work it out or else I'll get angry again" and went off to lay around on her royal Archfey ass or something.

So time passes, Caylius is born from a tryst between two members of each of the 2 royal air Eladrin lineages, somehow the vessel is stolen (probably in relation to the death text being stolen from the dwarves), and while he's only a lesser royal he possesses blood from both lineages so is one of the few Air Eladrin no one can complain about investigating and trying to claim the vessel. And All Eladrin agree the thing is an Eladrin treasure that MUST be reclaimed for the people by one of the lineages or sealed away again.

So there! I feel really satisfied, think the theme and powers all fit the character and game well (he's very mobile now), and it ties into my recent obsession with the prince of genies paragon path.

I need to do some tweaks like finalizing stats, and I need to buy equipment still but the theme and background elements of the concept bugged me so much I focused just on finishing them tonight!

Ok character done!

Awesome!  I've gone through everyone's character sheets and everything looks good. The only corrections I had to do were a single hitpoint total and an attack bonus calculation!

I'm compiling everything for the first encounter, and should have the first story thread up in the morning!  Thank you guys for being so awesome and giving me so much to work with.  Cheers!

Hello. I posted in the wrong game!
This message was last edited by the player at 06:52, Sat 09 Jan 2021.

It's on, mothertruckers!

I have to thank you guys; I absolutely love the energy and the personality you have brought to this game, and these particular characters.   I've been having an absolute blast building up this scene, and I honestly couldn't do it without y'all.

You're the best! ^_^

I want to take this moment to give you some praise too!

I really like how you've set the scene up so far. The mimic in the kitchen and the mugs is super cute by the way, and so far I've felt engaged with every one of your posts. The other PCs are reacting well to them too I can tell.

And I really REALLY like how you're handling skills so far. Even the use of the mimic speaking primordial was a nice subtle touch and I can see you're using these skills - including passive skills - in a way that is in net engaging multiple PCs' abilities and being inclusive. You definitely have your audience in mind while also obviously enjoying the storytelling aspect of it all.

Agree with the other Cal :)

It’s been really fun and I love your descriptions!

In the real world, knocking someone out is a tricky business. In the game world, the characters would know that knockouts are an option, even with swords, arrows, acid, fire, etc.

Edit: I dislike using Intimidation or social skills to end a fight, but intelligent opposition can reach a point (even before a fight starts) where it isn't worth it to them to press an offense. Early editions had morale checks, which I admit to not understanding when I played those editions and only "getting" recently. But I DM could still have opponents weigh the odds and give up, allowing the PCs to leave, or accomplish some other goal.
This message was last edited by the player at 16:27, Tue 12 Jan 2021.

Fantasy physics for the win!

I don't really want to argue in character, unless I'm sure that it's just roleplaying.

The fact is that players can generally decide whether to knock targets out or kill them. Furthermore, "the heat of the moment" isn't a mechanical aspect of the game.

If the DM wants this to be a point of tension, or wants to complicate the rules on knock outs, that's fine; we just need to know what the changes are. If a player wants to complicate things for the group for roleplaying purposes or anything else, that's something we can negotiate out-of-character.

I most cases, it should be possible to incapacitate targets and escape, rather than killing them. If not, then Barracus is right and we've got a conflict.

Though it occurs to me that the NPC might resolve this for us.

Edit: I don't mind our characters killing intelligent creatures, as long as it's necessary. In a dungeon ones going to be in for a while it's arguably necessary, as leaving enemies alive is likely to result in being attacked again. During a heist, it's a different story. And I don't have any problem with destroying constructs, undead, demons, etc.
This message was last edited by the player at 17:41, Tue 12 Jan 2021.

Caylius will kill rather than be captured and tortured. But he's not actually evil but more neutral in alignment so isn't bloodthirsty. Just feisty.

Oh believe me, this is all in-character.

Barracus is "not nice"

...at all.

If left to his own devices he would CARVE his way to the treasure--and then go looking down all the side paths and murder those people too.

He is literally asking questions right now to find out just how much murder he can get away with before the people he's hanging with will start clutching their pearls.

Someone might have to leash him eventually...

Correct...he is, after all, still a gentleman. He knows he has to play the game to keep us happy. And he most likely sees us as interesting and as investments for his own success so coddling us a bit is something I think the gentleman would think is worthwhile.

OK, good. In-game killing is something people can have strong feelings about.


What I you imagine that looking like? PVP combat rarely goes well in my experience.

Barracus might prefer to kill everything he can, but the game should make that, or any other action against in-game opposition difficult without the support of a team. It tends to assume at least a defender and a leader on hand. Is "leashing" just a matter of Barracus realizing that, and acting in such a way that he keeps his allies?

I don't think he means pvp. I think he means killing npcs.

I'm asking what "leashing" the character would look like. That usually involves a threat of repercussions. If the party doesn't have any form of repercussions besides beating the character up (which would be of dubious effectiveness anyway) then PVP is in the offing, which has its own issues and which some DMs ban outright.

We're dealing with a party member who would kill anyone, without worrying about consequences, and I'm looking for help understanding how that can be handled.

But it can probably wait until later, since we don't know what the situation will look like in play.

I suspect he means social pressure. The party dynamic will leash him in. He will be amidst a party of his peers each as strong as he is broadly speaking...and even more important, each a valuable gifted ally who can have his back when his dark plans go awry.

He'd play nice with us because we're important networking investments and good friends to have.

This is not a pvp game and I don't think he was trying to insinuate that. I can see why you would think that but I think he meant he would walk over npcs unless external forces or reasons encouraged restraint. Like not wanting to alienate us, his biggest resource.

Caylius has the right of it.  I meant 'leashing' in same way Tarkin "holds Vader's Leash."  Not physically restraining, just whacking him with a newspaper every once in a while.

If our amnesiac gnome wants to hold the newspaper, I'm okay with that too.

In reply to Gentleman Barracus (msg # 81):

OK, though I've never quite seen what Tarkin had over Vader, other than rank. Which none of us have over each other other.

I can't say I understand who or what the gnome is. But I have her journal to read, if necessary.

Yup. :)

I envision him holding back on doing things that would hurt the goals of the other pcs because quite frankly keeping us in his pocket is in and of itself far more valuable than mere gold and jewels. That's what also will encourage him to be a gentleman towards us and even sincerely helpful towards us...because we can in turn be of great use to him later.

You know what they say about having friends in high places and such.

He'd never put it that way of course. :P
This message was last edited by the player at 22:52, Tue 12 Jan 2021.

Cal is sitting this debate out. He kills when he has too. Typically monsters and prey.

In reply to Cal'alais Eltharin (msg # 84):

The in-character debate is done for now on Barris's side. It was really for Bili to answer anyway.

In reply to Gentleman Barracus (msg # 75):

Funny, I got that sense just from in-game. I made my post without even reading this thread. Absolutely came across to me that Barracus was just seeing how much he could get away with

In response to the "leashing" debate there is also the fact that the background of two of the party members include MacGuffins that promise greater power to Barracus than he can currently muster and that a third party member might have information that can lead to those items.

The potential need for peaceful interaction with those characters could be a strong "leash" to moderate Barracus' behavior. Now obviously as the characters increase in power, or the sense of actually finding the MacGuffins decreases that may change but we'll see where the game takes us.

These OOC discussions are peak D&D.  I love the way you guys are shaping your character dynamics. :)

Barracus: I understood that reference.

If we encounter Frinarv, Barris's findings should be clear to Baldin.

Sorry are we splitting up right now or should I follow along?

In reply to Cal'alais Eltharin (msg # 91):

My reading of the DM's message was that this was a time to do whatever we wanted.

The text of the journal is available for all to read. I thought Barris would probably do that, since I'd mentioned him obtaining it. That doesn't mean to me that no one else can be aware of the contents.

I had Barris invite Baldin because the two need to talk, and because I don't really like it when every person in the party is doing something different. So, I tried to make it so he and I were doing the same thing.

Anyone is welcome to join, though I'd ask that Barris get to run point, at least at first.
.

My character is trying to talk with Arran and using the mimic cups as a lead-in.

Yeah, Cal'alais you can hang out wherever you'd like: you can join Barracus in some potential "shopping", talk to Arran with Caylius, follow the rest to talk with Frinarv, or do your own thing (get in touch with your contacts, check out the area, or just call it a night)

When everyone finishes, we'll skip to the next scene.

Thanks! I will make a decision in the morning when I am more awake.

Just checking: do we need to have specific weapons or use them in a specific way in order to knock a target out, or otherwise just deal non-permanent damage?

Any time you reduce an enemy to 0 HP with an attack, you can choose to knock them unconscious rather than kill them.  It's a lot easier than having to keep track of different damage types.

Running on no sleep, I'll have a post up this afternoon..
 =_=

What I've gotten as Baldin from Frinarv and Barris' reaction is that Khimah is/was an associate of the other three but the incident that happened that night with her and Bili has caused Khimah to lose her memory and to some extent herself.

It sounds like Frinarv and Arran have tried to help her recover some of what was lost with little success, and that Barris feels like it hasn't been enough based on what he has read. Baldin can't help thinking that this is all tied in with why we're gathered here tonight and that this is Bili's attempt the right a wrong.

In reply to Baldin Stonecrusher (msg # 99):

Sort of. Obviously it hasn't been enough in terms of recovering her memories, but Barris sees that as secondary to simply keeping the gnome safe and not terrified, as she seems now, due to not remembering anyone. Seems like an easy problem to fix.

Running way behind the schedule I set for myself...  a combination of work, car trouble and moving to a new apartment  >_<

I'll have some time after taking my wife to work today, so hopefully the post should be up by the morning!

In reply to Guildmaster (msg # 101):

Cool and good luck. And no pressure.

I hope this isn't defunct and that our DM is well. This had a very promising start.

Hi all! I hope this game returns.

I'm around as well. :)
This message was last edited by the player at 22:17, Tue 09 Feb 2021.

I am going out of town for 2 days so will be very silent but am coming back. :)

In reply to Caylius Valveria (msg # 106):

Unfortunately it doesn't seem like you'll miss anything here. Have a safe trip.

I think the DM had some really big plans for this game, what with the detailed posts and the intertwined NPCs. Pity. Well, I hope you all have other games to occupy you. Maybe we'll play together again.

Ya this DM seemed abnormally promising! I really liked his posts and how he seamlessly enmeshed mechanics with the overall narrative.

I know it's been a year and I kinda dropped off the face of the planet... Just checking if anyone is still alive out there and interested.

Holy crap! Talk about a sudden revival from the dead! Man is this game sparking a huge trip down memory lane for me!

Well I'm very much still here on RPOL for sure. You certainly did drop off the face of the Earth though...is everything okay? How have you been?

Let's make this happen. Go team!