You may have a point, the DC for your character moving forward and not attempting to move silently and growling like your description wouldn't alter that DC at all? The fact that we are in a combat situation and that he knows that there are people rushing into melee him would significantly alter that DC (Consider the stated DC as someone being unaware of the invisible creature to begin with). Anyways, I am not loathe to edit the combat round, since he did just take out one of the PCs. We will assume in the future that the DC in combat will be much lower than +20 due to the fact that that he is aware of your characters and the limited area of the arena, unless you start actively trying to move silently. If you score a hit on him he will know your general location for sure. He is still rolling his miss chances, never fear that.

According to RAW no. But it also makes sense since she only needs to keep quietish in the last moments of movement to avoid pinpointing. Noteably she growls then moves so locating where she was before moving by hearing would be DC20 or higher for the noise though moot because he saw her there before being blinded. Locating her and anyone else who moved would be DC their move silently results + circumstances + 20. They simulate blindness by forcing you to swing around blindly unless your listen is epic or you have blind sense. Which isn't to say a lucky guess is unreasonable just straight listen check usually can't help.

In reply to Gruumsh (msg # 93):

 Not to mention it's a really elegant way to stir us up and remove an absent player. ^_^

Amen.

I edited my in game post to include the effect of a thunderstone.  She has three leFt now.

Edit, there's an f in left
This message was last edited by the player at 08:45, Mon 12 Oct 2020.

I am not totally ignoring your argument, but I would point out there is always Rule Zero. Rules as Written are advisory and help establish a base line for the game. If you go here http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/listen.htm I would say that a reasonable base listen check would be DC 10 (An unarmored person walking at a slow pace (15 ft./round trying not to make any noise - which isn't quite what your your characters are doing) + 5 for Distractions (Roaring crowd + distance from crowd) to locate the general square where your character is located within 5 feet, higher DCs for further distance, but still making miss chances for being blind. If you are actively trying to move silently, that will be the opposed DC for within 5 feet. What is funny is that Krucks is built for entering the Eye of Gruumsh prestige class, which means one of the feats he took was Blind-Fight, not a prerequisite, but one of the feats he chose.

The +20 DC is basically simulating the Blindsense ability. A lot of the listed DC depends on actual awareness of your foes presence, which is not lacking in this scenario.

Anyways, I like Bella's choice of action, blind and deafen the bastard! Especially after poor Gora being split in two... (That Natural 20...sigh, if only I had those as a pc).

This is all feeling rather academic now.

A normal baseline DC for half-speed walking is 10 based on +0 to move silently and taking 10. Cool mechanics are clear also given she's using normal care taking-10 makes sense.

She's dexterous but untrained she has a +2 to move silently.

Moving at full speed is -5 so the DC to hear a normal person walking is DC 5, given neutral circumstances you'll hear someone approaching at 50ft. Totally reasonable.

Apparently normal conversation is taken such that you can be heard clearly at 10ft which is again pretty reasonable.

Unclear how far away one can make oneself heard. (Like seriously unclear how loud a bard can rock)

Running or charging is -20 so the DC to hear a normal person running or charging is DC -10, given neutral circumstances you could pin-point the location of someone running 5ft away from you. Also fighting you can normally pin point if it's within 5ft of you. Which means you could stand close to each other and ready an attack against the invisible foe if they attack and thereby pin-point them in the moment they attack.

Except you take a -5 penalty (technically the DC is 5 higher) if you're distracted like say under attack from multiple sources, and as always circumstances can be more or less favorable. Ie noisy arena, crunchy leaves in the arena.

Not 100% sure on how the house rule would play out but down to try it.

(Aside)
There are definitely some things to always rule-0. For instance an in my opinion asinine rules-as-written interpretation of Blind-Fight is because the feat specifically calls out invisible foes, and never mentions foes who have total concealment due to blindness. It doesn't apply at all to this situation.

Only mentioning it because I'm not about the "these are the rules we must use them exactly as written" thinking. I mean it's called blind-fight they clear meant for it to count.

(Other Aside)
Eyes of Gruumsh tend to use double axes since they're getting feat taxed twice to use the thing.
They also get blind fighting as a bonus feat so generally wouldn't train it.
Further they need to put out their own eye to receive the benefit and lose the benefit if their eye is ever restored.
Also Eyes of Gruumsh get Blinding Spittle, so he's kind of a hypocrite to complain about an ancient and respected traditional battle tactic of Eyes of Gruumsh (not that that'd be out of character).

(Third Aside)
Several of us took up flanking positions if Belle's shot had to hit one of us and she picked Kozryaka who seems the more rational choice given she's comfortable attacking without spells and, feel free to roll her save. Her Fort save bonus is +6

Computer crashed, posting from my phone. Will update once I get my computer up and running again. Will probably have to order a new tower...sigh.

Computer is here finally, so it will be a day or two to update this game, give me a role call so we can see whom we are working with still.

Commandante Bellatrix of Cunning?  Presente!

I'm here, though other things are eating my focus.

Karguk reporting in.  Welcome any distraction from US politics.

They had an election in Ivory Coast yesterday.  Does that help?  The incumbent won with 94% of the vote.  The other 6% spread pretty much equally among three main rivals, two of whom had told their supporters to boycott the elections.

I like my birth land's new flag better than the old one. There are a few things I'd still change but the new Magnolia flag is more distinctive, pretty and speaks to symbolizing resiliency and grace rather than other things.

It is certainly an improvement.

 I'm here, watching the enduring clusterfuck that is the US election once more, from more or less in the middle of it. And to think there was a time when I actually thought no one could screw up democracy more than us Brits did. ^_^

"It has been said that democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others?"

 I quite like 'Democracy is based upon the theory that the common man knows what he wants, and deserves to get it, good and hard' ^_^

In reply to Rorak Silverfang (msg # 110):

Ha, nice.

Coming from a Sociology student who was a former Political Science student here in the States, I can tell you that the system isn't being held together great. The hyper polarization of the political parties has become toxic in the past 12 years or so. This has given rise to the demagogue Trump and his fascist regime, which has high jacked the conservative party in the states. There are some similarities to the rise of the Nazi party in Germany back in the day, though one could argue the implementation is flawed compared to how Hitler was able to rise to power. Hitler actually accomplished much for the German people, not to compliment him or his parties ideas, just to compare them to the rise of white nationalism here in the states in context. It will be interesting if the legal battles being pursued will be used to destroy the principles that the United States was founded (well, besides the entire White Male Landowners being the only valid voters thing, amongst others) or if we will maintain the separation of powers that our government was designed for.

Anyways, to sleep!

 I think I'd argue that the rot began with the Reagan campaign - mobilising the previously apolitical religious vote (which had stayed out of politics on the perfectly reasonable basis that politics would corrupt religion faster than religion could 'redeem' politics) meant that the other side were no longer just 'wrong', they were suddenly 'evil.

 And you can't compromise with 'evil'.

I concede your point good sir, but I was referring to the rapid increase in the past decade or so.

*sigh* and here I thought I was going to bed, I guess now I will.

I think I'm most discouraged by the influence of social media and the weaponization of lies.  It's amazing how many things my older friends (ie, my parents and their friends) post that are just not true.  Just yesterday they had shared posts comparing the registered voters in each state to the number of cast ballots, showing that in states that favored Biden, the voter turnout exceeded 100%.  Leaving aside the issue of same-day registration, the voter registration numbers were just plain wrong.

But the amount of effort to fact-check that compared to the amount of effort it takes to share something on Facebook means it's impossible to stop the spread of misinformation.  (And granted, it's really easy - if you google something like "STATE NAME Voter registration" it takes you right there.)

It seems like this game is due to constantly have ill luck...sigh. Well, let see if Krucks is actually going to survive this or not.

 Not at all! We're mostly still here, aren't we? That says something!