I will post tomorrow.  Need to double check myself about the disarm but don't have access to my book tonight.  Thanks.

In reply to The Barkeep (msg # 60):

So I forgot they had both a Combat Style called 'Disarm' but then, for reasons I will never understand, allow a combat maneuver called 'Disarm' which does the same thing.  Yeah, I know they say the maneuver has less chance of being pulled off.  But it is still kind of nonsensical to me.  Especially as I spent ten minutes reading up on the skill because I forgot about the move.

I agree with your calcs.  The sad part is he got an awesome roll.  But that stun penalty screwed him over.

Oh well.  That is life.

This poor kid.

I didn't know there was a 'disarm' combat style. Now I have to go look for it.

Is this in the regular rules or Martial Law?

And it was precisely because of the stun that I had Varen attempt this maneuver. Otherwise I may have just started blade slapping him to take some hits down and keep him on the defensive without serious injuries. If I can keep the pressure on and keep him stunned, this fight will over very quickly.

Of course, this could have gone the other way around just as easily if he had won initiative. But he does need the skills to back up it.

Varen has no intentions of killing him, but he does want to get some information out of him. Let's see what happens.

In reply to Varen (msg # 62):

Yeah, it's under Combat Styles in the Skills section.

Oh! That is interesting. I will read it shortly.

Knock outs are tough, even in the real world.  Since the kid is stunned, I think your best bets might be:

>Attempt a knock down roll.  Then just tie him up.

>Using the butt of your sword hilt, try for a subdual blunt instrument attack.  I would rule that in this situation-because you have sword ranks and the opponent is stunned-you could give this a shot.  If you were trying it on someone who was at full capacity, it would be another story.

>Grapple him.

>You could try a social skill to convince him to just come along.  Charm or duping.  I don't think diplomacy or leadership will get you anywhere here.

In reply to The Barkeep (msg # 65):

Let me know if you want to try any of those or we can move on as is.

Thanks.

Ugh. Sorry, been very distracted lately. I need to read up on how to do the maneuvers you mention as options, where they are available to be done safely with this elf. I think I might settle into 'blade slapping' him once or twice to get another round or two of stun, and THEN try to take him down while can't put up much of a fight.

I'll get to work on that this afternoon. I am presently at work and don't have the book with me.
This message was last edited by the player at 16:49, Sun 24 Jan 2021.

Sorry Folks.  Having a work emergency.  Will post tomorrow.  Thanks.

In reply to The Barkeep (msg # 68):

Your question about how to tell if he's duping you is a good one.  HARP doesn't really have a 'Sense Motive' type of skill.

By the way, he'd be Acting now, not Duping.

The social skills in this game, like most, have a lot of overlap and ambiguity.  I would say they fall out like this:

Acting         Used to 'continue' a performance.

               If you have Duped someone, and want to continue the
               the charade (see below), you can keep acting the part.

Charm          Used to make people like you.

               Seduction mostly.  Or trying to set up a good relationship
               with NPCs.

               I think successfully charming someone should give
               you a bonus on other Influence skills.

Diplomacy      Attempts to influence over long term.  Negotiating
               a peace accord between the winter goblins and the Duke
               for example.

               While it takes longer, I would think it would have the
               greatest success.  Like a ritual spell vs one you just cast off hand.

Duping         Short term con job.

               Talking your way out of the city guard's traffic stop for example.

Leadership     This is all about dominating NPCs who are already friendly.

               I could see it being used to rally the troops/provide a morale
               bonus.

The 'defense' skills would run something like

Interrogation          Diplomacy's opposite

                       It takes longer, but would yield better results.

Perception             I am reading this description to mostly
                       be about physical signs.

                       So I could see using Perception to spot
                       a behavior that might be a 'tell' that
                       something is going on.  Like someone not making
                       eye contact or sweating for no reason.

                       Not necessarily proof.  But something that should
                       raise a red flag.

Streetwise             Being able to tell if a situation sounds like
                       a con.

So in the situation with the Kid, I would say you

     - Would use Dupe to get him to believe he is outclassed
       (I mean, yeah.  He was.  But you understand)

     - Could use Charm now once he's calmed down/not trying
       to chop you.

     - Could use Diplomacy on him if you had him camp with you
       the caravan overnight/treated him nicely, etc. to bring
       him around completely to your side.

     - Could try to Act like someone you think he'd respect
       (assuming you don't think you already are like that)
       to try to get a bonus on Charm of Diplomacy efforts

He could resist by

     - Using Streetwise to notice the Dupe

That is pretty much it.  I don't think Interrogation or Leadership would apply here.

So using what happened, I treated your second attempt as a Charm.

I will need to consider how to handle the Influence skills, because they are frankly pretty ill-defined.

I will also be awarding bonuses to your roll based on any role play efforts.

So after your last post, I would say you could make an Diplomacy or Charm effort on him at +15.

Sorry to ramble.  The Influence skills have been bugging me.  So this is mostly me taking the opportunity to think out loud.  You don't have to give any feedback, but feel free to if you wish.

Thanks.

I follow you. Makes sense and is well-thought out. I am learning alongside you so this is all good.

Being more experimental, and willing to bend/break things, I would say if I was running a game, I would create an "Insight" skill, like in D20, to "evaluate a person's intentions". Something like "Perception" but for more subtle behavior/feelings/thoughts.

This would most likely be an "Insight/Insight" skill, with a standard skill progression (5/2/1). It would oppose Dupe and Charm directly, by rolling a Maneuver roll based on the Resistance Result of those skills, as usual.

I have to agree that when I read the Influence skills I didn't like them much either. They still feel a bit nebulous to me, some more than others.

I like the idea of using "Streetwise" to spot a con, and yet some cons can be quite sophisticated and perhaps Streetwise might not apply to them. This is completely debatable, of course.

I will post a bit later tonight after I've completed some household work.

I don't see a reason to mistreat the young elf. His position is not enviable. I can tell you right now that if there aren't too many of "them", Varen will propose a 'rescue attempt' to his crew, or an ambush, given the young elf's cooperation. Or both: if the ambush can dwindle their numbers, it will be easier to follow up with an assault to free the people Aldo talks about.

Sorry for the silence. Been a but taken up with some concerns here, and my time flittered away while doing those things. Yay.

I'll be posting today, at some point. =)

Hey All.

In Texas. Power is very come and go.  I will update games when I can.  Thanks.

Sorry Folks.  Having a RL issue.  Will respond Tuesday.  Thanks.

All good.

Sorry folks.  Things have gone a little south.  I will be out the rest of the week.  Do plan on being back.  Thanks.

Hey There Barkeep,

Undergoing a bit of medical recovery, and might have to deal with a few more medical issues. My posting will slow down significantly.

Just letting you know.

In reply to Varen (msg # 78):

Thanks for letting me know.  Take your time.  Wishing you the best in your recovery.

Things are still not resolved, but I think I can start posting again.

Give me a few moments to mentally re-engage and I should have a post for you soon.

In reply to Varen (msg # 80):

Take your time.  Get well.  I'll be here.  Thanks.

In reply to The Barkeep (msg # 81):

Hello.

Hope things are going well.  I will probably close this board by the end of the week.

Thanks.

Hey,

Wow, things have been super busy.

I think you may be right on the closing of the board.

Thank you for being so generous and running this particular system for me. I have learned a lot and it was very educational. Your story crafting is also pretty good, and I enjoyed the details you added to your game and posts.

I hope things find you well and you are having a blast with players who can actually put the time to post. =)


Best to you,
Mr. K.

In reply to Varen (msg # 83):

You as well.  Best of luck.  Thanks.