In response to msg #593 in the OOC thread:
Oof, you're asking some tough questions. Let's try to work through this.
Arcane Baseball
Mallory:
The caster has to physically lob the fire like a baseball, so presumably it follows an arc as opposed to spells like "Fire Bolt" that just shoot in a straight line point to point.
Fire Bolt:
Cantrip Evocation
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: 120 feet
Components: V S
Duration: Instantaneous
Classes: Sorcerer, Wizard
You hurl a mote of fire at a creature or object within range. Make a ranged spell attack against the target. On a hit, the target takes 1d10 fire damage. A flammable object hit by this spell ignites if it isn’t being worn or carried. This spell’s damage increases by 1d10 when you reach 5th level (2d10), 11th level (3d10), and 17th level (4d10).
The only description both Fire Bolt and Produce Flame offers is the word "hurl". So this is ultimately interpretive. In fact, since Fire Bolt doesn't specify it requires vision of the target either, I would say the two cantrips are very similar and would follow the same criteria. If a cast of Produce Flame can be lobbed, so too can the mote of a Fire Bolt.
Vision, Cover, and Spellcasting
Mallory:
Can Mallory see the Trolls over the rooftop of the building they're beside?
In this situation, it is more appropriate to apply the Cover rules as opposed to some strange, selective variant of the Blinded Condition, even though both stem from a lack of vision. However, Cover implies something more; one or several obstacles that hinders Attacks and certain Spell Casting.
Total Cover, PHB page 196:
A target with total cover can't be targeted directly by an attack or a spell, although some spells can reach such a target by including it in an area of effect. A target has total cover if it is completely concealed by an obstacle.
That particular roof valley seems to me from my drawing like it's a bit lower compared to the rest of the building. (
https://i.imgur.com/aUTzeTN.png, the difference in height is indicated by the dotted line.) If this had not been the case, I would have given the northernmost Troll Three-Quarters Cover, and the southernmost Troll Total Cover because of the difference in how they carry themselves. But seeing as it
isn't the case (and ignoring the fact that Mallory's vantage point could change the amount of vision she has access to), I will give the southernmost Troll Three-Quarters Cover from the same roof, and
the northernmost Troll Half Cover. (+2 to AC) Which means
Mallory has vision of it.
But What if the Trolls Did Have Total Cover?
Total Cover means Mallory would not have vision of them. What would happen? Could she still Attack the Trolls? The answer, as it turns out, is no:
Produce Flame:
Conjuration Cantrip
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: Self
Components: V S
Duration: 10 minutes
Classes: Druid
A flickering flame appears in your hand. The flame remains there for the duration and harms neither you nor your equipment. The flame sheds bright light in a 10-foot radius and dim light for an additional 10 feet. The spell ends if you dismiss it as an action or if you cast it again.
You can also attack with the flame, although doing so ends the spell. When you cast this spell, or as an action on a later turn, you can hurl the flame at a creature within 30 feet of you. Make a ranged spell Attack. On a hit, the target takes 1d8 fire damage.
Targets, PHB page 204:
A Clear Path to the Target
To target something, you must have a clear path to it, so it can't be behind Total Cover. If you place an area of effect at a point that you can't see and an obstruction, such as a wall, is between you and that point, the point of origin comes into being on the near side of that obstruction.
Confusion arises from the fact that some spells define that only
targets you can see are valid (Magic Missile, for example). Produce Flame does not, but it appears to me that it would still require an unobstructed path to the target, which Total Cover does not grant. It just so happens that in this case, Total Cover obscures sight, but there's still a valid trajectory (above the rooftop). It also depends on how you define Total Cover; if you say only an enclosing box counts as Total Cover, then it becomes easy, as there's no longer a valid trajectory. But that's not how I interpret it. A narrow, solid wall that reached to the heavens would count as Total Cover if it completely obscured a creature behind it, even if there could exist some theoretical spell that could zip
around it, in the same way Produce Flame could be tossed and arc over a roof because of gravity.
Astre to the rescue . . . ?
Mallory:
could Astre's eyes-in-the-sky reporting be used as a Help Action (him just telling her where to aim rather than sense-sharing) to make it a flat roll?
Good question, one I had to look up the answer for.
And by RAW, I don't think a Help Action could enable an Action that the benefactor would otherwise be unable to perform. It can only grant Advantage on an Ability Check or Attack Roll. Furthermore, Astre cannot grant Advantage on the Attack Roll because he is not within 5 feet of the Trolls.
Help Action, PHB page 192:
. . .
Alternatively, you can aid a friendly creature in attacking a creature within 5 feet of you. You feint, distract the target, or in some other way team up to make your ally's attack more effective. If your ally attacks the target before your next turn, the first attack roll is made with advantage.
This could easily be circumvented by just moving Astre. We could say he swoops in within 5 feet, and, because of the wording of the Ice Trolls' Cold Aura, he would not suffer the Cold Damage.
Ice Trolls' Cold Aura, Rime of the Frostmaiden page 295:
While it's alive, the troll generates an aura of bitter cold that fills the area within 10 feet of it. At the start of the troll's turn, all nonmagical flames in the aura are extinguished. Any creature that starts its turn within 10 feet of the troll takes 10 (3d6) cold damage).
Keep in mind this is all just going by RAW. It makes sense to me that Astre could provide Advantage because he can communicate otherwise unknown information. I would say this is not properly conveyed by the rules in this case. But let's think of this from a different angle; could a PC make it possible for another PC to take the Attack action by pointing and shouting out the position of something? Not if it has Total Cover. Could it if the Attacking PC was Blinded? Yes, granted the Helping PC is within 5 feet of the target, because the Attacking PC is able to perform the Attack to begin with. The Disadvantage and Advantage would then cancel out.
Or, if Astre, or some other PC with the ability to see Invisibility, were to direct someone to Attack it, would I allow it? Possibly. Would PCs be uncomfortable with enemies having this ability?
But it makes sense from a logical point of view. Mallory is capable of blindly throwing her spell, and Astre's directions would definitely be of help. But ultimately, I would say
it would enable an otherwise disallowed Action. I would definitely grant her Disadvantage on the Attack, and I would downgrade the Total Cover to Three-Quarters Cover (granted there is a route the spell can take to reach the unseen target) as it is still obscured by an obstacle. If Mallory were to close her eyes and rely on Astre to attack a target behind Three-Quarters Cover (she could see it to begin with), the target would still have Three-Quarters Cover. Otherwise, could Mallory not just decide that
any amount of Cover doesn't matter, and instead choose to Attack with Disadvantage?
Rooftops
Mallory:
Double alternatively, she could just clamber up onto the roof and get a clear line of sight that way, albeit leaving herself rather exposed in the process. ^^;
Yes, yes, true. Although I've contemplated this a bit, and I'm leaning towards requiring an Acrobatics check to successfully climb onto the roof. These are houses in a northern town, and the roofs are angled sharply to avoid the build-up of snow. This has previously been established, so I feel okay with this as it doesn't come out of left field. Good job, past version of myself!
DM Bears, msg #64 in Chapter 1-1:
Astre flew up ahead, above the sharply angled rooftops which allowed snow to easily slide off.
Let's set the DC to 12 immediately. Not too difficult. It would make sense that there would be handholds for the residents to access if they had to reach the chimney to clean out soot. I maintain that
it costs half your movement to climb atop the roof.
I feel myself getting sleepy :S . Hopefully I didn't make too many errors. Since this turned rather long, I'll summarize;
The Troll in question has Two-Thirds Cover (which means Mallory has vision of it). Astre can swoop in to provide her Advantage without suffering any consequences, but the Troll would still benefit from Two-Thirds Cover.
This message was last edited by the GM at 00:02, Fri 11 June 2021.