Solid points!

But now, are you roleplaying or rollplaying? Because if you're going to bring up what I would call most excellent points - ones that I would say lean in your favor - you probably should drop a perception roll yourself, considering your argument leans towards rollplaying with stats as opposed to roleplaying.

Because it is kind of bad form to simply ignore Valus' rolls and presume Friedhelm will actually be able to spot them, just because.

Fried. It is bad form to ignore the other characters agency. You should await for me to adjudicate the results of Valus post. If you really needed it for you to post, that is what "waiting for" thread is for. No Godmodding will be tolerated.

In the future, remember, you control your character, I control the world. If you want to affect the world, roll or use a spell, or a special ability and I'll adjudicate. Don't assume the results if your rolls, let alone the other player's rolls. Specially not rolls that have beeb adjudicated already.

Please edit you post and don't do it again.

(Oh and if you are going to rules lawyer, at least do it to argue in the party's favor not against a fellow player)

So the dispute is whether or not Friedhelm could observe Valus. My contention is there were 3 points thus far when Valus was not and could not be stealthed.

1) When he walked in the front door of the bar.
Obvious action (door opening)
No cover.
Friedhelm would have thought a goblin odd but not note worthy
2) When he bumped into the gnome.
Steal takes a standard action
Reaching a table as tall as you are plus your arm's reach to get to someone your height's belt means you're not under the table. Since she was seated closest he couldn't be behind the table. There was no cover.
Beginning or ending the turn close enough to take the standard action breaks stealth. So unless there's some mechanical reason that it wasn't it was broken.
Friedhelm is looking for people with information about the nearby ancient buried wizard. The gnome is the most interesting person for this goal. He was also just warned about pickpockets.
3) When he's sitting next to the door.
No cover
Attention attracting action nearby.

There are three facts the point to Valus being a thief.
1) He's a goblin
2) The missing coin purse of the woman he was seen standing next to.
3) He keeps disappearing (using stealth)

Not claiming Friedhelm knows exactly where Valus is, but he aught to be able to indicate the general direction he went from the door where he was last not stealth. Not sure the half-orc has any reason to believe him.

The main point of contention seems to be observing Valus next to the gnome scholar moments before she can't find her purse. Apparently we're fairly close to that table (surprising to me) but given that how did Valus have cover for that moment?

Ok three points:

1) Stealth isn't just about being unseen, it is also about not being noticed. The stealth im this case is about blending in the crowd and not standing out.
2) Your character's passive perception is relatively low, unless you were explicitly looking for Valus in the crowd, he should have passed unnoticed by you

3) This is not PVP, this is you bringing a fellow player down. Would you rather be right? Or would you rather get along?

1) Disguise and bluff seem more appropriate in those situations. Also see the rules for hiding behind soft cover under stealth.

2) Friedhelm was looking for someone with info on Castle Greyhawk so ancient buried wizard treasure. Is there anyone in the bar more likely to have information about this then the gnome scholar? Lady Yesgrace warned him to watch out for pickpockets. So yes right at that theft while thinking about thefts.

3) So does the not PvP apply to other players? Because Valus causing a scene stealing blocked planned action and caused danger for my character. Keen provoked a half-orc and then mistook my character for the best dressed bouncer in the world.

Counter points:
Blaming the not currently visible goblin doesn't mean the goblin is caught anymore than Keen's stunt means Friedhelm lost a fight.

If you want to retcon go back to before Keen acted and change it so the tables are far apart. For the scenario where given all the reasons Friedhelm should notice Valus to go unnoticed you can at least put some distance between. At which point Keen's action isn't possible. For that to happen at the next table over to someone he wants to talk to when that possibly happening was and practically spelled out for him creates an absurd situation for Friedhelm not to notice. At least give me like a sizeable gap and people between them if you want me to go with noticing despite focus and lack of cover

Fine, if that is the (mole)hill you want to die on, fine. You have convinced me, you can roll perception to see if you notice Valus. And you bring good points of this being a harder case, so I'll penalize Valus roll on the opposed check. So... beat 27, if you roll 28 or more, you noticed Valus.

Just want to add for the record that Fried wouldn't know if Keen thinks are a bouncer unless they have detect thoughts.

Stellan, your post wasn't presumptive (to me) but thanks for asking :)

And did your character's change in speech reflect a sobering up?

In reply to Keen Eid (msg # 93):

Nope, still a drunk little monkey.

XD

I'm so excited about this perception roll.

Because I really would laugh if it's something like a fat nat 20.

Ok, that was unfortunate. Let's move on. Remember, be nice to each other.

*thumbs up*

Aboslutely, boss.

In other news, had to ship off my computer for repairs, so will try to post from phone till Tues. Sorry for delays and lackluster posts.

'Ello!

In reply to Viktoria Zeravina (msg # 99):

Hello!

The question you should be asking uourdelves is if I resemble EDI or Caprica 6. 0-:)<

EDI or Caprica?

1) After reading the OOC, Fried came off as kind of a douche nozzle. I get the "action economy" side of things, but it seemed like he was about using the rules to justify not having to play a particular response instead of just roll (literally) with it.

I am an Arcanist at the DM's suggestion from another game.

2) Valus, yes. EDI or Caprica Six. My face claim, Tricia Helfer, did the voice acting for EDI in Mass Effect 2 & 3 as well as played the role of Cylon Caprica Six in Battlestar Galactica. My jest was, who is my personality going to be closest to, EDI or Six?

:D

1) I don't really want to talk about past events. He did has good reasons for what he suggested but the way he phrased it came off as a complete attack towards me without any reason at all other then he didn't agree with it when he had no clue what I was doing. I let the DM handle it. So let is not talk about it for bring it up will cause undo hardships. I want to have fun and roleplay. Not rollplay. I view it as 'its not combat, doesn't effect you, ect' It seems he had it out for me without any reason. Its the past, leave it there and have a blast with current events :)

2) I never played Mass Effect. I'm big into Wheel of Time, roleplaying games like Dragon Age, Diablo, ect

Hi Viktoria! Welcome!

I'm hopefully getting my comp back today, so expect to drop a post between tonight and tomorrow.

...And I didn't even get a look of scorn. :/

I'm a goblin.

Everyone gets a look of scorn when they look at me. I'm used to it :)
This message was last edited by the player at 17:15, Sun 11 July 2021.

Yes. Buuuuuuut, you inflicted that punishment on yourself by intentionally chosing to play a goblin. So that doesn't count!

I however, am a tall, lean, hot mess blonde in a red dress! And right now I am so awfully amused (seriously) at having been ignored and walked around. Now the obkect is to see how long I can go before somebody realizes I am there and is like, "Who are you and when did you get here?"

LoL.

:D

Really I don't care if people dislike the goblin long as everyone is having fun and no one takes it personally. Its something the goblin has to work around. Never know he could be the best like person in the group or the worst.

BTW I'm standing near the door, haven't walked into the room yet. Curious probably.

Also: You can post Waiting On the DM to respond to your post btw. It was probably missed.
This message was last edited by the player at 23:51, Sun 11 July 2021.

Its all good, Gobby. I dont know nearly enough about your character to like or dislike him. I'm in the ALWAYS DM camp, so getting butthurt about somebody's choice of character, especially so early in my tenure, is not on the agenda. That would be ansurd of me. :)

Unless...

Unless...

Unless....... You are the one Edgelord to rule them all! The albino dark elf slave assassin Feynor who "Says nothing remaining completely silent and staring at you with his doll like eyes."

https://youtu.be/1q_Iw82I9-o
This message was last edited by the player at 00:24, Mon 12 July 2021.

This was EXACTLY the story I was thinking of when you was reading that, in the crit crab voice, of course.

Yesgrace was a little weirded out by previous events, and has decided not to get involved with the crazyness about the bar.