In reply to Marius Lazarescu (msg # 199):

:)

Yes, it was confusion about another Redcap switching between two spots.

In reply to Alpha SG (msg # 198):

Is there an upper limit on redcaps?  I was thinking of making one but if 5 is too many I won't.  I said something about that before so that may be what threw off your count.

In reply to Player 14 (msg # 201):

I don't think so. Mostly I just didn't want people playing one if that wasn't a top choice for them because we have enough for whom it is a top choice. If you want one, go for it.

In reply to Player 14 (msg # 201):

I'm in the process of writing another redcap up for the redcap covenant, that makes 3 redcaps there.

The menagerie gang at Aerie in the south have one, so for a fifth redcap it might make sense to have the redcap stationed in Egypt (library or border fortress).

@Alpha SG
Would it be a good idea to have a Redcap group in addition to the covenant groups?
This message was last edited by the player at 07:53, Mon 08 Mar 2021.

Ooh, it can be called Desert Runners, or the Mercere Chronicles.

I can create a Redcap group if people playing Redcaps think that would be handy.

In reply to Alpha SG (msg # 205):

A redcap group would probably be useful. Coordinating schedules and whatnot.

In reply to Player 9 (msg # 203):

A redcap group sounds like a great idea.

Sure sounds like the redcaps are getting organized.

I mean, we should definatly talk a bit about the dangers of being on the road, the toll the harsh conditions in the desert takes on the body and such things.

Also who gets to do the Harco trip with all the outgoing mail from the tribunal.
There are a lot of things to discuss and redcap pension fund and message fees are just a few of them. ;)

Hey fam dropping a PSA your way. Touch of Midas is only 5pfv so assuming it gives more than 50mp worth of value it's vastly better than buying solver with your starting pfv.

In reply to Player 4 (msg # 209):

Its cost in pawns is actually 9, including enough vis to cast it assuming one does not have an easy way to procure Te vis or replace it.

But a good idea if one has a goldsmith/Jeweler. An 80 lbs sphere of gold seems rather suspicious.
This message was last edited by the player at 02:27, Tue 09 Mar 2021.

5pfv to just get the lump made and bring it with you.

The rules don't say Cost + Mags +1  they read as the cost to cast it plus a 1 pawn surcharge.

In reply to Player 4 (msg # 211):

That seems like the sort of rules bending the ASG is trying to avoid with the whole revamped pvf pricing system.

I was assuming you were talking about buying the lab text and casting it yourself though I now realize that text is significantly cheaper than that.

It's literally the example spell he used...

Well, some decisions will need to be made by the tribunal. Presumably they'll want to not dump tons of gold all over the place, or the rest of the Order may frown on what they're doing. 2 lb silver worth of created gold/silver per magus is considered safe. Meanwhile, starting with silver you'll be able to just spend plenty without question.

2lbs/magus/year covers some of what it costs to maintain a magus in a spring covenant and standard upkeep lab for a year (~7 Lbs of silver per Covenants book expenses)

Ok so how many MP does it give. 300 fits with the description of the spell and the description of the buying power of a MP.

2mp/year is technically only legally binding in one tribunal everyone else just plays it safe so no one brings it up at Grand Tribunal.

So flat using it as your sole income source is probably a bad idea. But mostly no one would notice if you used it rather than your normal allotment of MP.

It's literally economically the same to generate gold from thin air as it is to teleport it to Africa from Germany. Like to the locals the money is coming from nowhere regardless, those markets are isolated from one another.

Yes, that is how the spell and the Mythic Pound are described. So 300 lb sounds right.


Well, things go further than that. The standard is to pay Redcaps with silver (3 shillings per visit), and they won't accept magically created silver. Considering the breadth of House Mercere's influence and trading, that they were the ones that brought the issue to Tribunal, and that 5 of this tribunal's 21 magi are Redcaps, I wouldn't think we'd want to go beyond 2 lb/year/magus.


Yes, there is a certain amount of truth to that. Markets are not totally isolated, as there are traders moving things between them, but there is certainly a lot of isolation. I think there is an assumption that as a covenant in Tribunal X you won't sell all your stuff in Tribunal Y and then move all the money back to Tribunal X, so whatever you're doing you're mostly functioning within the local economy.

Remember that to create gold permanently out of thin air, you need to spend Vis. And that's vis that might be missing for other uses. Remember that Vis is needed, as a basis, for several things:
1. Enchanting items
2. Longevity Rituals (might be a few years for most, if not all of us, but we should plan for it, because it will likely be needed as a Tribunal-wide thing within a few years, and over a few years, as they age)
3. Aegis of the Hearth, and this is needed on a yearly basis, for all 5 covenants
4. Any other Ritual or Ceremonial spells.
5. Bonding Familiars
6. Studying from Vis (This might seem a bit out of place, since that usually only comes into play once you've exhausted any relevant books you can get your hands on, but some builds might find it as, or more useful than books, depending on virtues. Plus, with Aura 5, it means one can get 5-14 SQ, or more, if you roll a 1)
7. Trade. Remember that if we want to get books/items/whatever from other covenants, magi, or through the Redcaps, it costs Vis to buy it.

Well, Vespera of Tremere loves having Redcaps visit, and will do her best to make sure they are very comfortable whenever they visit Alexandria.  She loves to chat and gossip and .. uh.. chat more. Redcaps are quite delightful, because they tend not to cause trouble for romantic flings.

Luckily none of you are from the Transylvanian Tribunal and know her reputation!

My understanding is that 10 mythic pounds of silver buys one pound of gold. The spell creates 80 pounds of gold, so 800 mythic pounds of value. Selling pure gold, in large quantities is "unhealthy." Doing so attracts thieves, tax collectors, and tithing agents (did I just say thieves three times?).  And it wrecks the local economy.

Now, since most of Europe's gold come through the African trade routes (Solomon's mines, Timbuktu, or mined by giant ants, pick your myth) it would be easier for us to hide its origin. But some level of restraint, when spending, is necessary. I think two mythic pounds is too restrictive, for the location, but you don't want to become famous.

Huh I would have never thought vis was useful... I'm saying if you are already trading it for gold it costs 5 to get 300mp or 5 to get 50mp. Economically the same means in regards to the local economy. The local economy doesn't know the difference between generated from vis or mined from foreign ground. As far as the economy is concerned both come from thin air.


Touch of Midas says it is enough wealth for a peasant to live comfortably or 300 years. Definition of an MP is peasant wage for a year.

In reply to Player 4 (msg # 221):

In City and Guild it clarifies that 1 pound of gold sells for 10 MP. But all of this is an abstraction. It is a boatload of money.

OK, that 300 MP v. 800 MP is definitely inconsistent. I think the simplest fix is to say someone accidentally wrote 3 instead of 8 in the spell's description. So let's go with 800 MP.

Again, this spell is really best if you're crafting from gold. That way you have all the gold you need and don't need to mess up the economy dumping gold into it. You're just not buying all the gold you need.

It may be a good place to put  gold into the economy without attracting suspicion or with less inflationary effect due to this being closer to the source of most gold coming to Mythic Europe but that also speaks to gold being somewhat less valuable in relation to silver.still more but may not be 10 MP of silver to buy or sell 1 pound of gold.